Did Ryback and Axel put an end to the "Paul Heyman Guy" Schtick?

[closet_fan]

I'm a huge CM Punk fan. I loved the Summer of Punk pipe bomb. But if there was one thing I hated more than anything from that one promo was Punk calling himself a "Paul Heyman Guy." Now you constantly hear it from almost everyone, but the Roman Reigns thread took the cake.

I'm not making this to bitch about people wanting every other wrestler who doesn't get a fan reaction to be a "PHG." Or those who think up-and-comers should automatically latch onto Heyman because it will make them "big stars."

I want to get the thoughts of others as to whether we have actually seen the end of this. It didn't work for Ryback. It didn't work for Axel. Punk only used it to get more heel heat because even a heel Punk by himself was going to be rooted for.

Personally, I think the WWE finally realized that you can't put a wrestler with Heyman and get good results just because he's with Heyman. They did it twice (minus Punk) and both failed miserably.

Outside of Lesnar, the "Paul Heyman Guy" angle should finally be put to rest and buried.

 

[aholeisahole]

Yes, because their storylines meandered and got boring awfully quickly. WWE tried to make them replacements for Lesnar but neither of them are in Lesnar's league. Even Punk and Heyman couldn't make the Punk vs. Ryback/Axel feud interesting, and that's saying a lot considering they are two of the most creative and entertaining personalities in WWE's recent history.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Ryback and Axel were manufactured "Heyman guys".

Since Heyman has no real booking powers or involvement in developmental, "Heyman Guy" now is nothing more than a kayfabe label to put on someone that they decide to have Heyman manage.

So I agree, put an end to it since its lost its original meaning.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I'm a huge CM Punk fan. I loved the Summer of Punk pipe bomb. But if there was one thing I hated more than anything from that one promo was Punk calling himself a "Paul Heyman Guy." Now you constantly hear it from almost everyone, but the Roman Reigns thread took the cake.

I'm not making this to bitch about people wanting every other wrestler who doesn't get a fan reaction to be a "PHG." Or those who think up-and-comers should automatically latch onto Heyman because it will make them "big stars."

I want to get the thoughts of others as to whether we have actually seen the end of this. It didn't work for Ryback. It didn't work for Axel. Punk only used it to get more heel heat because even a heel Punk by himself was going to be rooted for.

Personally, I think the WWE finally realized that you can't put a wrestler with Heyman and get good results just because he's with Heyman. They did it twice (minus Punk) and both failed miserably.

Outside of Lesnar, the "Paul Heyman Guy" angle should finally be put to rest and buried.

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm a huge CM Punk fan too, and marked out tremendously in that 2011 pipe-bomb. Especially the part where he says "I'm a Paul Heyman guy". Basically, punk meant he's not another WWE cookie cutter jabroni, but someone who's learnt and mastered his craft outside of the WWE.

As far as I'm concerned, the only three Paul Heyman guys from the 90s and 2000s I can tell who became huge superstars/champions are CM Punk, Brock Lesnar, and Rob Van Dam(some will disagree about Van Dam being a huge superstar). Besides them, there has never been a true Paul Heyman guy who also went on to become a big superstar(Because the likes of Sandman, Tommy Dreamer, etc. cannot be considered superstars outside of what they did in ECW). I doubt there'll be any other Paul Heyman guy ever.

What the WWE did by stealing Punk's "I'm a Paul Heyman Guy" phrase was a disgrace. Curtis Axel? Seriously? The WWE just can't see someone being elite and classy(as Heyman and Punk) without their help so they'll look to steal and market even that.

 

[Randy Orton's Head Blood]

They did. Because they sucked.
Ryback was never promising & is just becoming less promising as the weeks go by. He's attempted to be entertaining online & if he was given a chance in the ring with some form of wacky, being a dick promo, it might work.
Axel was pretty interesting when he first debuted as a PHG, but then things just passed on by & he became a guy in a tag team.
RybAxel aren't anything special without Paul Heyman and they're fading. But they put the Paul Heyman Guy thing away, which made it all that better for Paul Heyman & the phrase.

 

[roipdh123]

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm a huge CM Punk fan too, and marked out tremendously in that 2011 pipe-bomb. Especially the part where he says "I'm a Paul Heyman guy". Basically, punk meant he's not another WWE cookie cutter jabroni, but someone who's learnt and mastered his craft outside of the WWE.

As far as I'm concerned, the only three Paul Heyman guys from the 90s and 2000s I can tell who became huge superstars/champions are CM Punk, Brock Lesnar, and Rob Van Dam(some will disagree about Van Dam being a huge superstar). Besides them, there has never been a true Paul Heyman guy who also went on to become a big superstar(Because the likes of Sandman, Tommy Dreamer, etc. cannot be considered superstars outside of what they did in ECW). I doubt there'll be any other Paul Heyman guy ever.

What the WWE did by stealing Punk's "I'm a Paul Heyman Guy" phrase was a disgrace. Curtis Axel? Seriously? The WWE just can't see someone being elite and classy(as Heyman and Punk) without their help so they'll look to steal and market even that.

There were some more great guys under his management:
Rey Mysterio - Three time world champion {2 time World Champion & WWE Champion}.
The Big Show - Four time world champion {2 time world champion & 2 time WWE Champion}.
Kurt Angle - Eleven Time world champion {5 time TNA Champion & Four time WWE Champion & WCW Champion & WWE World Heavyweight Champion}.
Stone Cold - should I say more?

And there are more guys who made less success but are known wrestlers such ason Muraco & Rick Rude & Matt Morgan & Cowboy Bob Orton & Larry Zbyzsko & Sabu & Tommy Dreamer & Rhino.And there were more guys.

So I think that the Paul Heyman guys did had a success...

 

[AegonTargaryen]

There were some more great guys under his management:
Rey Mysterio - Three time world champion {2 time World Champion & WWE Champion}.
The Big Show - Four time world champion {2 time world champion & 2 time WWE Champion}.
Kurt Angle - Eleven Time world champion {5 time TNA Champion & Four time WWE Champion & WCW Champion & WWE World Heavyweight Champion}.
Stone Cold - should I say more?

And there are more guys who made less success but are known wrestlers such ason Muraco & Rick Rude & Matt Morgan & Cowboy Bob Orton & Larry Zbyzsko & Sabu & Tommy Dreamer & Rhino.And there were more guys.

So I think that the Paul Heyman guys did had a success...

What the fuck does Paul Heyman's managerial skills have to do with Kurt Angle? Kurt Angle debuted in wrestling in the WWE FIRST and became a star under the guidance and tutelage of Vince Mcmahon with added mentorship/help from experienced guys like HHH and The Rock. Another time when Angle further established his wrestling stardom, was against the likes of Brock Lesnar, Shawn Michaels, etc. None of that had a thing to do with Paul Heyman's involvement.

As for The Big Show? again, Big Show debuted as "The Giant" for WCW, clearly with Eric Bischoff in charge, and in 1999 as Paul Wight, again, for Vince Mcmahon. On-storyline managerial skills of Paul Heyman that Big Show received in 2002 hardly made him a big star. Sure, it made him relevant again in 2002 on Smackdown. But none of these guys are truly "Paul Heyman guys" in the vein of how Rob Van Dam and CM Punk were. And Brock Lesnar, even though his own man in many respects is still a Paul Heyman guy and will most likely be for the rest of his WWE career because Paul mentors and guides him with many things(it is well known) and one of them is Promos. He also helped him and played a big role in Brock's 2010 Book .

I don't consider Rhyno, Sabu, etc. "big stars". What's the last time Sabu had a big one-on-one wrestling moment for the WWE? or even a Wrestlemania classic? That's right, NEVER. You may as well say Tommy Dreamer and Stevie Richards were "big-time" stars and deserve the same honorable treatment as Rob Van Dam and CM Punk.

Rey Mysterio didn't win the WHC or ever matter because of Paul Heyman or because he was a Paul Heyman guy. Rey became successful in the WWE because of his unique in-ring style, his manoeuvres, his gimmick and the mask which made him an over-all merchandise-selling kids favourite. Had it not been for WWE's disgraceful exploitment of Eddie Guerrero's death- A far more superior performer/wrestler than Mysterio, in every way, that little pipsqueak would've never won the WHC, not before Mark Henry anyways. Seriously, Rey winning the WHC was a disgraceful slap in the face of guys like Ric Flair, Sting, Goldberg, etc. If Rey was ever a big superstar, which he was in terms of selling merchandise and being a kids favourite, he was that because of his Mexican and Lucha Libre heritage and the mask.

Stone Cold didn't become Stone Cold Steve Austin because of Paul Heyman, or was ever truly a Heyman guy. Stone Cold Steve Austin was never even a Vince Mcmahon guy. He was , is, and will always just be - A Stone Cold Steve Austin guy, just like The Rock is The Rock. Nobody make the Rock. The Rock made the Rock. No one else. Not Mcmahon, not the fans.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Bad timing was a big reason for the failure with Ryback and Curtis Axel. Punk already lost to Lesnar at Summerslam, so he couldn't lose to Ryback or Axel, because you're running the risk of killing Punk's momentum. The goal was for Punk to tear through every roadblock in front of Heyman, and with Lesnar gone, Ryback and Axel were the only roadblocks/punching bags left. Paul Heyman was the main course, and Axel and Ryback were the appetizers served on a silver platter for Punk, so they never had a chance to do anything memorable in the feud.

On top of that, no one bought into Curtis Axel as the next big thing, and his run as IC Champion was forgettable at best. Ryback's heel turn was past the disaster point, and the bullying stuff never went anywhere. Plus, Ryback and Punk never had good chemistry together (the TLC match on Raw was okay from what I remember), so you didn't have anything to look forward to in the ring.

By default, the problem with the "Heyman Guys" concept is Brock Lesnar. Lesnar is the top priority for Heyman (remember, Heyman chose Lesnar over Punk), so everyone else (with Punk's heel run as the exception) feels like a scrub, when you compare them to Lesnar. There's only one throne for Heyman Guys, and it's reserved for Lesnar. Axel and Ryback had to fill the role of bench-warmer substitutes during Lesnar's absence, and that's it.

Heyman could be a valuable asset to guys like Ambrose, Rollins, or Reigns, when The Shield split happens. But as long as Brock Lesnar is around, everyone else has to settle for 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place in the Heyman Guys stable.

 

[Zycho32]

...it seems safe to say that future Paul Heyman Guys are little more than hired muscle. Guys to rough up the babyface BEFORE Brock Lesnar comes to rip them in two. And to be honest, that's not exactly a bad thing.

You can play off that concept, especially if you're trying to sell Heyman as a vile manager looking to, say, organize a coup d'tat or personally target a specific wrestler to destroy, much like how the CM Punk angle was supposed to work. You just don't have the hired muscle take on the babyface in PPV matches if you can help it. Have them in the low or mid card trying to eat up those areas of the WWE and try to make a revolution believable.