Did Metallica really "sell out"

[DethMetal]

Today we will be discussing the greatest heavy metal band ever: Metallica.

Ever since the Black Album or so(for most people, Load), Metallica was accused with selling out. First, shall we go over selling out?

Sell out: to give up everything you stood for and who you were for money

Now, let us go over the definition of selling out for damn near every metal fan:

Sell out: Not doing what YOU think they should be doing; not expanding their music and doing the same song and dance(a la Motorhead[not knocking them though)

Since the Black Album, Metallica made more ballads, cut their hair, and slowed down a tad. They created St. Anger, an record with no guitar solos and snare drums, and have even gone back to their Justice stuff somewhat in Death Magnetic, and the "fans" still piss on that. I think Metallica said it best, "We're about music, not the length of our hair."

• St. Anger was a brutal record
• Hair does not constitute as metal
• Death "Crapnetic" was exactly what fans bitched for for years, and they still weren't happy

So, in your retrospective, just because they weren't making 3 min. fast songs, made ballads, cut their hair, and did what they felt right, and made a few music videos, did Metallica really sell out?

By the way, Megadeth made Risk. They made a video. They cu their hair. They were on the radio and gained popularity. Why didn't they sell out? Juat saying. I didn't mean for this to be so long.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Really I get sick of the label selling out. Really here is the thing guys, we don't matter other than for record sales. As long as the band sells records, and they allways will no matter what. The band honestly if they feel this way, could give two shits less about us. But here is the great thing about Metallica, they do care about us. The fans are their focus and that's why they continue to sell out arenas and sell albums.

In reality what they did when they "changed sounds", they were doing a great thing. Thrash was on its way out the door, and in a big way. Grunge was on its way in, for some reason it picked up. Metallica changed it's sound because labels didn't care about thrash anymore, labels are in it for the money. I remember seeing hundreds off the boom thrash bands that popped up after the big four get the big ulgy axe after Mr. Shotgun and Co. got on the scene.

Grunge changed the face of thrash forever and it is now just getting back on track. So I applaud Metallica for going a new route and growing and maturing as a band. Because music is about changing, I don't want to lisiten to the same shit year after year. So Imo no they didn't sell out.

 

[Nate DaMac]

There's a difference between selling out and flat out sucking. In retrospect, the music they put out back in the day isn't nearly as good as I believed it was as a kid, but still, compared to regurgitated horseshit they put out in the past 5 years or so, it's fucking Mozart. So no, I don't believe they sold out, I just believe that they lost any creative drive that they used to have and are continuing to get by solely based on their history. Maybe Hetfield should start drinking again.

Of course, this is only my opinion. I just don't think Metallica is as as good as they're made out to be. Maybe it's just over exposure, but I'm fucking sick of them.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Metallica did in fact sell out because they got rid of the sound that made them famous and then went from the amazing metal albums to trash that made a lot of fans angry with them. They were amazing up until The Black Album which was their last good album. Everything after that sucked. Load and Re-Load were mere shadows of what they could have been. St Anger is not even worth talking about. Death Magnetic, I wanted to like it.... but I think the problem there for a lot of people was that they had given up on Metallica by that point. Death Magnetic should have been the Black Album's successor, taking their sound back to sound more like And Justice For All. However, after 3 terrible albums then a decent one will sound a little mediocre. As for Megadeth, they took more risks and thus fans expected it more from them. Metallica's change after The Black Album just set off too many fans and they will never get back to where they once were.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Metallica was the one metal band that broke up and made metal cool to the mainstream audience. They even got a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nod. I know, there are lots of other artists in there that shouldn't be and some that should. Just like the WWE HOF. As a metal fan, you have to give them credit for making metal relevant. I enjoyed all of their records, except St. Anger. I couldn't get into that one.

Death Magnetic was the most heavy album they put out since And Justice For All in my opinion. I understand how some say they lost their edge because they cut their hair or changed their music. Honestly, as long as they are selling albums and Kirk is kicking out the same old school jams as always, who gives a shit? I would rather go to a Metallica concert, even in this day and age then go
to any other concert considering today's music scene.

 

[Post]

I don't feel that Metallica has sold out. I think evolved is a better description.

In the late 70's and the 1980's, true metal was a bit taboo. As time went by, metal became more acceptable and popular to the mainstream audience.

The band and the style both changed. More people became exposed the the band and the genre.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Hardcore fans will always feel Metallica sold out, people always seem to equate success with selling out, even though that is hardly the case. The term "selling out" is a bit ridiculous to begin with, as it usually pigeonholes any artists who's worked their way from bottom to top into the category of "sell out", and that's simply not the case.

One of my favorite music related quotes, and I'm paraphrasing here cause I was stoned when I read it and can't seem to find the actual quote... "Mainstream music will find you, but you've got to search for the underground"

That quote works in so many different ways, and in this case, mainstream music found Metallica. There fame couldn't just be contained to the underground audience that they had been catering to.

 

[Twiztid Rodimus]

Metallica did in fact sell out because they got rid of the sound that made them famous and then went from the amazing metal albums to trash that made a lot of fans angry with them. They were amazing up until The Black Album which was their last good album. Everything after that sucked. Load and Re-Load were mere shadows of what they could have been. St Anger is not even worth talking about. Death Magnetic, I wanted to like it.... but I think the problem there for a lot of people was that they had given up on Metallica by that point. Death Magnetic should have been the Black Album's successor, taking their sound back to sound more like And Justice For All. However, after 3 terrible albums then a decent one will sound a little mediocre. As for Megadeth, they took more risks and thus fans expected it more from them. Metallica's change after The Black Album just set off too many fans and they will never get back to where they once were.

Wow. If this isnt a hugely cliche and typical response.

Listen up kiddies. Changing your sound does NOT, and I repeat, does NOT equate to selling out, UNLESS:

1) You did so, ONLY to appease your label

To make money, and sell to a broader audience is NOT selling out.

I have been a metallica fan since 88, even as young as I was, And justice for all, opened me up to metal music.

And before the black album, I listened to their back catalog, AND, I STILL enjoyed the black album.

The elements, and psychology of selling out has been diluted like crazy in the minds of so called ''Fans''. Just because ''Your band'' isn't just yours anymore, does NOT mean its sold out. Just changed. Evolved

EVERY member of Metallica, explicitly said after And justice, they did NOT like the prog metal stuff, it wasn't personal enough, and it was too technical to play live. So they scaled it back.

James' lyrics POST and justice are his most personal, and involved, which is WHAT music is about in the first place.

Yes, its not as heavy, or ''metal'', as the first four, yet, by no means, is changing your sound selling out.

Conformity, is doing whats expected of you, even if you don't want to, Yet, when Metallica, masters of NON conformity, do what THEY want to do, and people complain.

Load/Reload, as a band, was not their best, but it was NOT because of the tired, sell out excuse, it was because, they just weren't. They had ALOT of great songs, if you combined the best of both albums into one, It was a solid release. But I digress.

Selling out is NOT what Metallica did, THE FANS DID. They wanted them to be something that they didnt want to be anymore, wanting they to APPEASE THEM, instead of themselves. Like spoiled children.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I don't feel that Metallica has sold out. I think evolved is a better description.

In the late 70's and the 1980's, true metal was a bit taboo. As time went by, metal became more acceptable and popular to the mainstream audience.

The band and the style both changed. More people became exposed the the band and the genre.

Well said Post.

Metallica did not sell out, they evolved their style over time, if you do not change with the times your music will eventually become outdated and stale. Plus, Metal as a genre was changing and Metallica needed to move with the times in order to remain revelant. They also probably wanted to make a different style of album, one that would catapult them to mainstream success and acceptance, which is what they did.

If you look at any band, even back to the days of the Beatles, they change their style as they become more established, realalising what the majority of people want to hear and as they become more experienced. Early Beatles records are completely different to their later material. It is the same in Rock music too. Look at Green Day, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Soundgarden...the list goes on. The early material is different to their later sound.

Metallica did not sell out, they just evolved into a better, more popular and more varied band.

I have most of their albums and I really like their earlier material, but I also like their more recent albums (other than St Anger, that was REALLY poor). I personally have no problem with Metallica changing their style, I do not agree with the claim "they sold out" at all to be honest.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Listen up kiddies. Changing your sound does NOT, and I repeat, does NOT equate to selling out

No it doesn't, but Metallica did sell out. They were all about the metal at first, but then it became about making money. They released terrible albums and started the whole napster incident.

And before the black album, I listened to their back catalog, AND, I STILL enjoyed the black album.

The Black Album is awesome. It's everything that came out after it that sucked.

The elements, and psychology of selling out has been diluted like crazy in the minds of so called ''Fans''. Just because ''Your band'' isn't just yours anymore, does NOT mean its sold out. Just changed. Evolved

It has nothing to do with Metallica appealing to more than fans of thrash metal. It's that they realized their old sound was what made them famous and fans didn't like the new albums. They continued to release bad albums, caring only about money. How is that not selling out? Changing your sound isn't selling out but releasing bad albums one after another when you only care about money IS selling out because it should be about the fans.

Load/Reload, as a band, was not their best, but it was NOT because of the tired, sell out excuse, it was because, they just weren't. They had ALOT of great songs, if you combined the best of both albums into one, It was a solid release. But I digress.

I will agree to disagree there. Load and Reload were AWFUL other than King Nothing.

Selling out is NOT what Metallica did, THE FANS DID. They wanted them to be something that they didnt want to be anymore, wanting they to APPEASE THEM, instead of themselves. Like spoiled children.

The fans sold out? Really? I don't see it that way. They just wanted to see a band they enjoyed listening to come out with great new material, but the band obviously only cared about money or else they would have reverted back to better material instead of continuing the string of bad cd's because the bands that care about something other money will listen when the fans dislike the songs.

 

[Twiztid Rodimus]

No it doesn't, but Metallica did sell out. They were all about the metal at first, but then it became about making money. They released terrible albums and started the whole napster incident.



The Black Album is awesome. It's everything that came out after it that sucked.




It has nothing to do with Metallica appealing to more than fans of thrash metal. It's that they realized their old sound was what made them famous and fans didn't like the new albums. They continued to release bad albums, caring only about money. How is that not selling out? Changing your sound isn't selling out but releasing bad albums one after another when you only care about money IS selling out because it should be about the fans.




I will agree to disagree there. Load and Reload were AWFUL other than King Nothing.




The fans sold out? Really? I don't see it that way. They just wanted to see a band they enjoyed listening to come out with great new material, but the band obviously only cared about money or else they would have reverted back to better material instead of continuing the string of bad cd's because the bands that care about something other money will listen when the fans dislike the songs.

i appreciate your reading my post, but I find faults in your logic.

You say that they changed their sound into what it was on the black album, yet, you claim they did so for money...Well than why does Load/Reload/St anger sound NOTHING like the black album? Which was their highest selling album to date.

They could have chosen to make Enter sandman clones over and over, and try and recapture what they knew they didnt want to perform anymore. How is that not selling out?

If they, as a band, didn't want to make music like the first 4 (or 5 depending on your opinion of self titled) and they change, how is that selling out? They, THEMSELVES, wanted to change. If you show me a single quote, or interview where its stated that they changed for the all mighty dollar, then your points are true. Without solid facts, its ALL opinion. BUT, I can show you, or provide with MANY quotes and interviews about their own dissatisfaction with And justice, and how they didn't like the progressive thrash metal sound, it was too difficult to play live, and since they are a LIVE band, it didnt translate. Then...here comes the black album.

Which, yes, wasn't all speed metal, or thrash..BUT...it had ALOT of the metallica elements in it. AND , it had the big stadium sound they felt they should have.

As Jason always said, Did they sell out...YES, EVERY stadium they've ever played in.

The thing is. People, want things to themselves, and once the masses get ahold of it, they disown it like a unwanted t-shirt that outworn its usefulness, then they try and respect the past offerings, and neglect the newer to speak of their own elitist natures of being a 'true' fan, which is not always the case.

You have the right to dislike load-Death magnetic, does it make me a better fan because, in and of themselves, I like each and every metallica release, NO, Not in any means. I just understand the industry, and feel NO shame towards bands that are trying to sell records. Any of my favorite bands can sell 1 million, or JUST ONE copy to me, I don't care. I just want them to keep making music.

(Side bar, The napster debacle, was one that I CLEARLY disagreed with, ONLY because I barely had money. NOT because I disagreed with Artists wanting compensation. And that was then, LOOK at what downloading has done to music NOW. Metallica, once again, ahead of its time)

All in all, I do NOT think they sold out, people simply want the ''Old'' metallica back, and they just didnt like the post Black album stuff, Not liking something, does NOT make it a sellout.

 

[WWWYKI777]

They didn't sell out do your research , between Lars and Kirks wanting to experiment and James supposed love of some southern rock bands thats how Load/Reload came about

Then you can blame St. Anger on further experimentation + trying to stay current in a crappy nu-metal filled market at the time

With Death Magnetic they "Bought in" and went back to their own signature sound again.

I'm pretty confident that the next album will also still be in their own signature sound.

 

[Dagger Dias]

You say that they changed their sound into what it was on the black album, yet, you claim they did so for money...Well than why does Load/Reload/St anger sound NOTHING like the black album? Which was their highest selling album to date.

Load, Reload, and St Anger were what I was talking about, not The Black Album. They changed to THAT, didn't care that fans hated it, and have not looked back.

If they, as a band, didn't want to make music like the first 4 (or 5 depending on your opinion of self titled) and they change, how is that selling out? They, THEMSELVES, wanted to change.

That isn't selling out. The fact that they made that change and didn't care that fans hated it, only wanted to make more money, THAT is selling out.

I just understand the industry, and feel NO shame towards bands that are trying to sell records.

More like just trying to make money. I know that they wanted change. They gave us that with The Black Album. They tried to change more with Load, fans hated it, and THEY DIDN'T CARE. They continued to release trash after that, everything after The Black Album is horrible compared to the old stuff.

All in all, I do NOT think they sold out, people simply want the ''Old'' metallica back, and they just didnt like the post Black album stuff, Not liking something, does NOT make it a sellout.

Totally understand where you're coming from. However, they DID sell out because they are in it just for the money and don't care that fans have hated their releases after The Black Album. There are now 4 bad albums that have come out. That's too many, and they still only are in it for the money. Thus they are sellouts.

 

[mrbrownstone]

Nah, they didn't sell out. They experimented musically, I guess would be the right term. Now from Load-St Anger it didn't really work that well, in fact when compared to their first 4-5 albums it was complete shit bar the odd song (Fuel being a notable exception). They still had the right to do it though they were obviously sick of playing 8 minute thrash songs with intricate riffs and solos and they wanted to evolve more into the hard rock field 3-4 minute songs with the odd ballad, it may not have worked for them all that well but they still had a right to do it without being called sell outs.

 

[Slyfox696]

Of course they sold out. They sold out big arenas around the world, they sold out every one of their albums, they sold out TV specials, etc.

It amazes me how people who are fans of a band turn on them the moment everyone else appreciates how good they were. It's like some people can only be a fan if no one else is, in order to make themselves feel good about themselves. The "Underground Bandwagon Theory" is what I call it.

The fact is Metallica didn't sell out, they simply tried different things. It's what MUSICIANS do. Nickelback can keep playing the same 4 songs over and over, but people who love music want variety and wants different challenges. After the Black album, Metallica could have put out ANYTHING and it would have sold huge. If they had put out "Death Magnetic" right after the Black album, would they have been sellouts then as well? After all, it would have sold a bunch of copies, and it didn't sound like the Black album. The fact is people need to get over themselves, and understand music is more than just about what's comfortable for it's fans at a particular time.

Finally, even if they had "sold out", so what? What does Metallica owe you? Metallica owes you nothing. They put out music, you enjoyed it. Many of you download it without even giving Metallica a single cent for it. If Metallica can make money doing what they love, why shouldn't they? The term "sellout", while not even applying to Metallica, is a stupid word, because it indicates that a band owes you something, when they don't.

 

[Twiztid Rodimus]

Load, Reload, and St Anger were what I was talking about, not The Black Album. They changed to THAT, didn't care that fans hated it, and have not looked back.



That isn't selling out. The fact that they made that change and didn't care that fans hated it, only wanted to make more money, THAT is selling out.



More like just trying to make money. I know that they wanted change. They gave us that with The Black Album. They tried to change more with Load, fans hated it, and THEY DIDN'T CARE. They continued to release trash after that, everything after The Black Album is horrible compared to the old stuff.



Totally understand where you're coming from. However, they DID sell out because they are in it just for the money and don't care that fans have hated their releases after The Black Album. There are now 4 bad albums that have come out. That's too many, and they still only are in it for the money. Thus they are sellouts.

You state, repeatedly, that because they did NOT change their style/sound because Fans ''Hated'' it, thats what means they sold out? Are you being realistic here? Or forgetting the ideals of selling out

You said. After the black album, they continued to make albums that THEY wanted to make, regardless of how the supposed ''Old school'' fans felt about them,and THATS selling out?

Load/Reload/St Anger, did NOT sell like ANY of their previous ''harder'' albums, and you claim that making music THEY wanted to make, rather than cater to fans wishes, is SELLING OUT? Wow...Flawed logic 101

1) If they did NOT change their style/sound, and ONLY did sounds like master of puppets OVER and OVER, ONLY because ''fans'' wanted it, rather than, as artists/musicians, doing the music THEY want to make..THATS SELLING OUT. That is proven by YOUR OWN LOGIC.

2) Just because you do NOT like load-present day, does NOT make them sellouts, it makes you a fan with a differeing opinion. Your NOT a all around metallica fan, your a fan of the ''long hair'' era metallica, which is your right, THOUGH, it is ALSO, Metallica's right to NOT have to cater to ANYONE but themselves.

As stated, if they ONLY made music they KNEW would sell millions and millions like the black album, JUST to sell, then it would be selling out, but YOUR logic, but they didn't. They evolved with their sound, because they WANTED TO. No one pushed them for the change, they changed themselves, and that is their right as artists.

As Slyfox said, NO BAND, owes ANYONE, ANYTHING, not even their record label.

Please make a valid argument, besides bringing in ''OPINIONS'' veiled as facts. You didn't like Load-present day, sorry, That does NOT mean its selling out.