Diamond Dallas Page: Overrated or Underrated

[It's...Baylariat!]

This is someone who I cannot stand personally. He was an average worker, terrible on the mic, and only got to where he was because he was friends with Eric Bischoff. I remember his days in the AWA as the manager for Bad Company and a short stint as a color commentator. MAN he's annoying, and on top of that, he was married to Kimberly, who is way too hot for a LOT of men, much less DDP or DDMe as Mark Madden calls him.

Now, his body of work is good. He's won the WCW World Title a few times, beat Flair, Sting, and others in defending that belt. Was also over with the crowd and had the quickest, most sudden finisher in the business, the Diamond Cutter.

So the question is... DDP. OVERRATED or UNDERRATED?

 

[X]

Underrated. SUPER underrated. I can't possibly see how anyone could call him overrated.

This may be a strange comparison, but I always saw DDP as WCW's own Stone Cold, only they failed to capitalize on that, and ended up booking him horribly. He had the same attitude and "I don't give a fuck" kind of demeanor that Austin had, and the fans loved him for it. Seriously, go back and watch those Nitros from 1997 with the DDP and Savage feud. The pops DDP was getting were rivaling any of the other top stars, Sting included. If it weren't for the rise of Goldberg I think DDP would have been WCW's true "next big thing".

There wasn't a style DDP couldn't work. Technical? Check. Hardcore brawl? Check. Add to that the fact that he was one of the very best on the mic in the 90s, and he was truly the total package.

Unfortunately WWE completely and totally buried DDP, and I'll never forgive them for fucking that opportunity up royally. They had a guy that could have easily been a main eventer for years to come for the WWE, and they immediately buried him by having him "stalk" Undertaker's wife, and have he and Kanyon absolutely and totally dominated at Summerslam 2001. That match was a fucking travesty, DDP and Kanyon got literally about 3 moves in during the entire match. It was just 15 minutes of them getting the shit kicked out of them for Vince to laugh about. After that they tried to book him as a self-help guru with Christian? Unbelievably fucking stupid. Quite possibly the single biggest mistake of the invasion in my opinion.

I'm not sure how anyone could argue he's overrated. Without a doubt DDP was underrated, and should be recognized for what he was; one of the most exciting wrestlers of the entire 1990s. His feud with Savage is one of my all time favorites in wrestling history.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd say slightly underrated. He's certainly not a Benoit or anything like that, but he used what he had as well as he could. he was more or less the Tommy Dreamer of his company and played the role to perfection. To the best of my memory he was the biggest name in WCW to never once join the NWO and that left a mark for him. His time in the company is completely overshaddowed by the big stars there, but i'd say that given what he had to work with, he did very well. He gave Goldberg the best match of his career hands down at Halloween Havoc 98 and had a great feud with Savage. Considering the fact that he started as a manager and truly worked his way to where he finished at, he's damn impressive. he's not great because of his in ring abilities or lack thereof, but he's certainly better than he's remembered as, so I'll go slightly underrated.

 

[The Gribbler]

He was a good worker but he didn't work for me. There was something about him I just didn't buy...

Although that may have been his role in Ready To Rumble biasing my opinion of him...God that was a terrible movie. Really I feel he got just about the props he deserved.

 

[McFoley]

$#%&in' DDP is definitely %$#&in' underrated by a lot of %&$*in' fans nowadays. I've been watching some %$^*in' WCW lately on DVD and WWE On Demand and I realized that DDP was a lot %$&*in' better of a technical wrestler than my memory gave him credit for.

I also respect any $%&*in' wrestler who gets their version of a move so over that their name becomes the %&*%in' standard such as the Stunner, the Sharpshooter, and the #$%&in' Diamond Cutter. I know he didn't invent the $%*&in' move but he definitely got it over; you hear "cutter" a lot more from announcers and fans than "Ace Crusher." I'd guess he %&*$in' probably invented some of the many %&*$in' cool variations he used too.

Most importantly, he really $%*&in' connected with the fans. Cheesy as he could be, he always seemed &*%$in' genuine and the "self-made man" character worked %$&*in' perfectly. I also got to agree with what was said about the $%&*' Halloween Havoc match with Goldberg. It's a $%&*in' great match and the crowd is going banana the whole #$%&in' time.

 

[The Wild One]

DDP was one of my personal favorites and underrated, especially the way WWE buried him. The guy had charisma and the Diamond Cutter was a great finisher, watching Randy Orton steal it every week pisses me off.

 

[Miko]

Yeah I think he was well underrated, he was one of the best things in WCW there isnt a shadow of a doubt in my mind there. His Halloween Havoc match with Goldberg is one of my favourite matches of all time, he was also incredibly over.

Even in the WWE where they shat all over him he did well, he was lumbered with a shitty self help guru gimmick in a fued for the European Title, yet people still cheered for him and chanted his little sayings along with him.

 

[brandogg]

Wow, I'd have to say the exact opposite. Sure he could put some sentences together, but I found him incredibly boring to listen to and to watch. He was always involved in incredibly lame gimmicks (teaming with Karl Malone and Jay Leno) and seemed very "forced" onto the audience, like John Cena is today, only 30 years older, always with taped up ribs and no physique. I've never understood what the Diamond Cutter (or RKO, etc) was supposed to do. I've given people the Diamond Cutter for real, and the Stone Cold Stunner, they don't hurt. Sure, they're cool to watch, but as far as putting away someone for even 3 seconds (I know, it's fake), it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Pedro08]

I say definitely underrated considering he started wrestling a such a late age. I became a fan when he first started getting his push and was squashing jobberers left and right quickly with the Diamond Cutter. It just seemed that hit the move in a different situation right out of nowhere every week. He would then push the Diamond Cutter during interviews with the "you never see it coming" line I thought it was pretty cool.

 

[CKDaimen]

Underrated. He had a great connection with the fans and he was one of the very few stars that were created and worked their way up in WCW. He had to be used pretty much perfectly in order to work, though...he fit in great in the WCW system but even though people accuse the WWE of burying him, if you look at his style, look and character, he didn't fit in in the WWE, that's all. He's not someone who fits in anywhere. An example of this how even though Bret eventually won the WCW title, I never thought he fit in the WCW system. I always thought he fit in only in the WWE. I think it's great Shawn never went to WCW, because as obviously talented he is, I still think he only fits in the WWE system. But I digress....DDP was underrated because his time and impact on WCW is forgotten because of nWo, Sting, Goldberg, etc. But in 98 especially, he was absolutely on fire. He turned the phrase, "BANG!" into like one of the coolest things in wrestling, and the diamond cutter, like Pedro said, could come out of nowhere each week. ALso, as mentioned a few times in this post, the Halloween Havoc match with Goldberg was one of the best hyped, and crowd electrifying matches in WCW history.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think the guy is highly overrated. There was just nothing about the guy that ultimately drew me in. I know some rag on the WWE sometimes for how they handled the guy, but what were they supposed to do really? You can't polish a turd.

Now, as a mid-card wrestler, I could completely buy into the guy. He didn't have the best to work with, but he did pretty well overall with what he had. What he had, however, was something that should not have placed him anywhere near the main event. Yeah, he won the WCW Championship on three occassions and he'll always have the knowledge of being a world champ. That being said, he only held the title a total of 29 days and the belt was nearly worthless by the time he got it. I found the guy to be a good and credible United States Champion but he just didn't click with me.

 

[classicviolence]

Underrated, simply one of the best "old man" wrestlers ever. He started late in his life and back in the WCW days he improved dramatically every week. DDP didnt start out with that "it" factor, but he learned it over time.

 

[Liberace]

Underrated DDP was awfully used in WWE he should ve never went to WWE coz any WCW star that history repeats says they'll ruin your character look at Lex Luger,Sid Vicious,Giant Gonzales and Brian Pillman etc. I give a lot f credit for DDP he was underrated in WCW if it wasn't for GOLDBERG he'd be up there but he worked hard for it and didn't have anything on a silver platter like CENA does! I think DDP should've never went to WWE it was a mistake he did well in TNA and then left? He should ve stayed in TNA he has a lot going for him! His classic feuds with Savage and Raven were superb and Kimberly was a hoooooot one! I met Page Feichtenberg he was a great down to earth guy that took the time to talk to you not like other wrestlers
I have him on my facebook lol I should tell h im to head to TNA he has a future he shouldn't let go " BANG"

 

[lamo78]

I think DDP was underrated if I had to pick a side. I think that he was neither over or underrated pretty much and used about right. He always came across as a common man who was a hard worker. Someone made the Tommy Dreamer comparison and I think that is a fair one.

 

[Spitfire]

Like many said already, I think he's underrated.
The Diamond Cutter was hands down one of the best finishers in WCW next to the Scorpion Deathdrop and the Lion Tamer. He was over with the fans and he was a good performer. But he was pushed aside for Goldberg and Sting.

 

[Kliq]

I was honestly afraid coming into this thread, for the sole fact I believed the IWC to feel negatively toward DDP. Glad I was (for the most part) wrong! I feel that Diamond Dallas Page was right where he needed to be in WCW, but looking back on him today, I feel he is underrated, and unfortunately doesn't have the 'legacy' of some of the other legends. Yes I do call him a legend, purely for the fact that he was big in WCW with many other huge stars of the time, and world champion through all of that. He was in TNA for a short time, which I did enjoy slightly just because I could see him on television again. He had a good match with Raven on PPV over there.

How he was booked in WWE was just horrible and I was very sad to see him become a 'stalker' and a 'self motivator', though I am not upset at the fact he had a feud with the Undertaker, but the storyline of the feud could have used some rewriting. Overall, I don't see him being looked at in the same light as other big stars of his 'late in the game' time, but I don't think he'll be totally forgotten. Def. underrated just because he was huge in the mid-late 90's and I always liked his character in WCW, and I don't feel people appreciate him as highly as I do.

 

[samboisdead]

He was definately underated. I read some people say he sucked on the mic on here. Are you crazy? DDP was a total natural on the mic. When i first rember seeing him he actually managed the Freebirds and he was great. Saying he made it just by being friends with Eric? How can you say that the guy got huge pops, he started out in WCW as basically a jobber and rose to Champ. Honestly this guy should have never been a main eventer. He wasnt that athletic, didnt have the look, but he got all the way. I really pisses me off to hear people say it was only because of Eric. This guy earned his spot. Hell he jobbed to Johhny B. Badd and still made it to the main event. If nothing else people should give him credit for the Diamond Cutter. That move was insane when he started it, you never new when it was coming and he honest to God thought of a new way to use it every match. Then SCSA stole it and fugged it up by doing the kick to the gut before he did it every match. SCSA just wouldnt have been the same without the stunner would he? Well give DDP some credit then outside Jake Roberts in my lifetime he is the only guy I can think of that I can give credit to for creating a move that every wrestler uses nowdays. As far as Kim being to hot for him. She was a dirty stripper and he bought her the breast implants and looks so many guys loved ever hear of plastic surgery. As for the Mark Madden comments he is a joke I mean I thought the guys who posted on these forums claimed to be wrestling purest. Madden is a guy who doesnt care about wrestling, fell into it by accident, and definately uses the buisness for his own agenda. Just because he disliked a person backstage he claims they sucked? Hell every wrestler out their is all about themselves. If you dont belive your #1 then who will?

 

[JDavis328]

I got to go with under-rated for sure. Guy was great in wcw. Like someone said he really worked from the bottom litterly up. What always comes to mind is its a bummer he started at such a old age. I really think if he would of been younger in wcw,things would be different. Not like crazy different but different. I like how someone said the whole stone cold comparison. Not in star power obviously because it wouldnt make sense but its like how stone cold did have to work his way up. In wwf he had a small push but not really to noticable then went to wcw and just got burried. Then ECW brought out that character and charisma for all to see. DDP had a huge amount of charisma and connected with the fans like Aj,Hardy,and Cena all do(not the same amount exactly but still). I really think wwe could of done a better job. I really feel if they would of thrown him in the invasion in more of a serious role like booker t had then he would of been way better. Or at least if his fued with taker would of been more of a serious back and forth fued. His finisher was great and obviously a prequel to what we see now with Orton.

As for his WCW time,I think it was a combination of his age and just a wrong place wrong time working against him. Honestly he started to come up just as everything else big came and got lost in the shuffle in my opinion. If he would of had different timeing who knows what would of happened?

Also to two of the people who posted here i wanted to say something

1st-ok so the dude who was going "any guy who $@%^ was in wcw is a @#$@#% legend" type talking,im sorry but thats really pointless to do those $%@$ stuff in. For one its just stupid and with how much you did it,it was just kinda of stupid. Doesnt make you look super cool or anything. Try just typing normal,it really makes you look older...way older then if you keep with what your currently doing

Also to the guy before me who said the whole DDP creating the diamond cutter,He didnt in a sense. He created the move yes and innovated alot of ways and situations to pull it off but the cutter has been around for a long time now. I believe Johnny Ace created it when he was a wrestler if I remember right. Orignally it was called the Ace Cutter.

 

[attitude_hero]

super underrated! I remember when ddp first showed up in the wwe i was like "yeah ddp vs taker that looks awesome" BUT all they did was bury a potential main eventer. The stalker angle was horrible. wwe screwed up big time there.

 

[McFoley]

JDavis328 - Thank you for noticing. The over-the-top style was an intentional tribute to DDP, who is by several accounts (including Mick Foley's books, Mick was pretty good friends with DDP) one of the most prolific droppers of F-bombs in wrestling history, and that's saying something. I used the %$*& type, which I agree is annoying, because using that many F-words is a definite ban.

And yes, Johnny Ace is generally credited with inventing the move, known by him as the Ace Crusher, but I think DDP deserves most of the credit for getting the move over in America (Johnny Ace was a lot bigger in Japan). It's just like how Mikey Whipwreck is considered to have invented the three-quarter facelock sitout jawbreaker, but some guy stole it, called it "the Stunner," and it caught on a little bigger than the "Whipper-Snapper." People steal moves constantly and while inventors deserve credit, so do the people who get the move over.

 

[jmt225]

Definitely, definitely underrated.

The guy got pops during the late nineties that rivaled anyone else in the business. The place went absolutely nuts whenever he would nail that Diamond Cutter. It was really something to witness. But the really great thing about him is, as over as he was as a babyface, he could still get himself just as over as a heel whenever the situation called for it. Not many professional wrestlers can switch it up like that and get the reactions they're supposed to get, but DDP was one of the very few who could do it. That's how talented he was, character wise. In-ring wise? Forget about it; the dude was simply incredible. Don't believe me? Shit, watch his match against Goldberg at Halloween Havoc 1999. That's all the proof you need to know how tremendous he was, because no one, NO ONE, ever got that great of match out of Goldberg. But if for some ******ed reason you need some more convincing, then also watch his work against Raven, Chris Benoit, Randy Savage, and Sting. All very different wrestlers, but DDP was able to work well with every single one of them. He was truly unbelievable and a gift to this business for WCW and all the fans.

But unfortunately, most fans today remember his run in WWE more than anything, which sucks because that wasn't his fault it didn't go so well. DDP had a target on his back from day one, and WWE never gave him a fair shot, which is a shame because not only does it tarnish his legacy, but the fact of the matter is that DDP could have done A LOT for WWE and put on some great entertainment for us all.

 

[JBK2008]

The guy could get the crowd going and he was nicely put over Flair and Sting winning the WCW world title multiple times. He just wasn't used properly in WWE but that was probably Vinces' doing anyway with most of the former WCW guys who came in.

 

[No Gimmicks Necessary]

For me, DDP about breaks even in terms of legacy. I think he did use his friendship with Eric Bischoff to excel. However, when he got the opportunity he ran with it and the fans of WCW at the time really got behind him as he definitely had some huge pops. He definitely did work some pretty solid and entertaining bouts with guys like Goldberg, Benoit, Savage, Bret Hart, and Raven. When it came time to bring in celebrities like Karl Malone (granted, DDP was largely responsible for this one) and Jay Leno DDP was the go-to guy for this because the other top babyfaces of the time (Sting, Goldberg, Luger) didn't have the right personalities to pull those particular stories off.

However, on the flip side again he was a bit of a late bloomer. His in-ring career didn't start until the age of 35 in 1991 and a lot of his early matches were just awful, ugly affairs that certainly did not foreshadow his success. It seemed like he improved at a slower pace than a lot of those destined for the top of the card. It was mid-98 that he started getting really hot. Won the World Title twice in April and May of 1999. However, from there he fell out of the main scene and did the Triad thing with Bigelow and Kanyon. Did a good run as a heel, but was solidly in the mid-card at that point. Then he went babyface again and when they tried the Russo and Bischoff reboot of WCW he hit the main event and feuded with Jarrett in 2000 which led into the whole Arquette debacle. After that he was basically just a mid to upper-mid card guy feuding with Mike Awesome, Kanyon, and doing the Insiders deal with Nash. Then he had one last brief flash in the main events when he feuded with Steiner during the last couple months of WCW. During those last couple of runs in the main event, though, he definitely was not as over as had been in 1998-99. So his time at the top was relatively short and was super over for even shorter.

As far as his time in the WWF, yeah he was misused. However, I don't think he would've reached main event status because i don't think a lot of the mainstream, casual WWF fans saw DDP as a legitimate contender. I mean DDP kept himself in pretty good shape, but in 2001 he was 45 and he looked it. However, I do think instead of a comedy gimmick he could've been used, with his mouth, reputation, and still decent ring skills to help build guys to that next level. I think if his character was handled better that would've been a much more achievable goal.

Then he had the neck injury and retired for awhile. Since that time we've seen some yoga tapes and some pretty so-so matches in TNA. So, yeah, not really leaning towards overrated or underrated.

 

[byrnside]

I think he was a bit overrated as an in ring worker. He had some pretty cool angles though, and he could handle himself well on the mic. Usually I don't care as much for the talk if you can walk the walk, so to speak. But DDP was one of the exceptions to the rule as far as I'm concerned. And X brings up some good points. He did have that running through the crowd, rebel without a cause thing going on, and he did that well. It was a shame that Vince buried him, but I don't think he could've come in after the invasion and done much more than be a solid upper mid carder.

 

[The Dewbliners]

I'm not gonna play make-believe, and try to come off as even a semi-mark for DDP, but I think he is certainly underrated. The Man was, I think, 35 when he actually started working in the ring, but despite that age, still got crazy over with the kids.

Was he serviceable in the ring? Hell, yeah, he was. Who, in there right mind didn't pop when he hit the discus lariat, or the Cutter? Was he the best promo guy? Not exactly, but he did get his point across (cheesy cliches aside).

And, yes he was shafted by WWE. But, he rebounded in TNA, by rekindling his feud with Raven, and getting Erik Watts involved.

However, with everyone here saying he was "underrated", can it not be argued that he is "Perfectly rated"?

So, in summation, DDP was (is?) underrated. Though, I like to say he rates just right, seeing how we all adore him.