Development and Future of WWE stars

[BTLion1990]

As we all know, The Rock retired from wrestling 7 years ago, a long long time ago. The reasons were because he had accomplished all that he had and wanted to move on, which is of course understandable. HHH is currently saying the same thing and a retirement is on the cards at present, same can be said for HBK, and the likes of Hogan, Bret and Savage (when they defected to WCW.)

There are a lot of examples and my question is this:-
Should the WWE be rushing the development of their talent?

Whether people like them or not, John Cena is a NINE time heavyweight champion (WWE 7, World 2), Royal Rumble winner, superstar of the year slammy winner, main evented Wrestlemania a number of times since debuting 2002. Randy Orton is a 7 time heavyweight champion (WWE 6, World 1) Royal Rumble winner, main evented Mania since debuting in 2002.

It seems to me that both have accomlished pretty much everything there is to do in the WWE. What's stopping them from leaving? They've surpassed a lot of records including longest time holding the titles, youngest champions at that time etc.. If they were only a 3/4 time champion at this stage and not mainevented a shit load of Mania's they could still have some goals, as well as pushing the youth for fresh feuds for them.

Even when you look at Swagger, Punk, Miz, Sheamus they've all held the main title there is and had some major feuds with almost all the top dogs, and the chances are Miz is playing a major part in Mania. This seems to be happening too fast. Look how long it took Y2J, Guerrero, Benoit, Austin, Foley, Edge to win their first WWE titles. The quicker they push their talent the chances are they will look for other goals, as well as a less intense schedule.

What reasons, if any do you think has caused the sudden uprise in pushing talent in a matter of years and giving them their goals so sudden. Del Rio winning the Rumble the most recent to come to mind.

Do you think eliminating one of the world titles would help see a slow rise of multiple champions so soon and would you want to see that?
Do the talent have their way more often that not? Del Rio was ready to walk and then low and behold he was spotlighted and went on to win the RR?

I just think they should take a different approach rather than throwing the title round like it means nothing.

Thoughts?

 

[GameOver]

Don't think it's sudden. They've been trying to get new talent or pushing current guys to main event for years, but the biggest issues are

1) They push guys up and they drop the ball or end up being too bland. Sure alot of that falls on creative for piss poor writing and character directions
2) Some stars coming from developmental get bad attitudes when they get to Raw or Smackdown (least thats what the reports say)
3) The stars they try to push don't make enough money

it's becomining more and more urgent now with the people who are actually the last of the dying breed of entertaining "Wrestlers/Entertainers" are retiring and there's few people to replace them. They have lots of people who can "wrestle" but not alot that can cut promo's on their own, can entertain, can tell a story in ring.

Then again saying that, the same thing happened leading upto WWF going attitude. A big chunk of there big name stars all started leaving for WCW and or retiring and they just had people who, although talented weren't main event tested. and we all know what happened there, out of the woodwork came Undertaker, HBK, Triple H, Bret Hart, Austin to name a few which was enough to hold things together til Ted Turner decided to pull his funding of WCW

I agree with you on the title shouldn't be thrown around like it's nothing and IMO they never shoulda split the brands and titles. I understand why they did, but from a viewer point of view, it's too spread out. Guys don't need titles to get over, how many World champs were there in WWF in the Hogan 80's era? um let's see. hmmmm 3. Hogan, Savage, Andre. It wasn't about titles, it was about competition and rivalries.

Don't think Cena is going anywhere anytime soon. He's a useless actor, and don't think he has anything else to fall back on other then merchandise and appearances.

Orton, don't see him doing anything else either but atm he has to be set to take some time off to heal his shoulder or neck or whatever it was that was injured last year.

Edge is also hinting towards retirement.

But at the end of the day it will force WWE to get there heads out of Vince's ass and actually produce some talent like they always did in the past. Triple H/Stephanie are setting things in a good direction IMO, the past 6 months have been far better overall then the overall product in the previous 6+yrs.

 

[safeco1999]

Well theres so much tv and events today compared to 20 years ago that there are so many opportunities/chances for title changes. The fans get tired of seeing the same champions every day/week/month. So WWE is not trying to throw belts around on purpose like Russo used to do in WCW. It's just what the fans really want.

I think the company is big enough where 2 world titles is fine, but I don't mind if they let one guy run with the belt for a while if they don't have too many main event caliber wrestlers there yet.

As far as Del Rio, I don't see him winning the championship at Mania.

I do think that WWE can lengthen title runs in general to make it more meaningful. I think Orton is what.. a 7 time champion already? I remember his first one, where he was beaten up the next day by Evolution. I hardly remember the ones in between. So if they have each title run be something memorable, then it'll be better.

 

[safeco1999]

. A big chunk of there big name stars all started leaving for WCW and or retiring and they just had people who, although talented weren't main event tested. and we all know what happened there, out of the woodwork came Undertaker, HBK, Triple H, Bret Hart, Austin to name a few which was enough to hold things together til Ted Turner decided to pull his funding of WCW

That looks quite incorrect. Bret Hart and Undertaker did not come out of the woodworks. Both of these guys were around at least 7 years in 1997 (Bret was there way longer). The difference was when creative stopped scripting everything about Triple H and HBK, and eventually let guys like Austin and Rock be themselves. As you may recall, a lot of DX pranks were actual things they did backstage that WWE was fining them on.

The big change was bringing in Mike Tyson at Wrestlemania, which helped everything get rolling with the mainstream exposure.

 

[BTLion1990]

it's becomining more and more urgent now with the people who are actually the last of the dying breed of entertaining "Wrestlers/Entertainers" are retiring and there's few people to replace them. They have lots of people who can "wrestle" but not alot that can cut promo's on their own, can entertain, can tell a story in ring.

Exactly, they haven't been doing this and more often that not just slapped a title on someone then dropped the ball or simply just didn't invest enough time. They've rushed their development and therefore it has now given a backlash effect as they haven't learnt all the mechanics to a great promo or match. Despite the criticism I like seeing Miz and Lawler as hopefully he can gain some of that experience from Lawler, but as for now it seems a guy comes up, gets thrown into the spotlight and then expected to be a star, just look at Swagger, Del Rio, Mason Ryan for that. It isn't teaching them anything.

 

[Snoe]

In a way, yes. But I also think the constant switch of championships and stars is because of the "youth movement" and us. We don`t have that much patience and if anybody held the title for a long period of time say 7 months+ then chances are a lot of people including me wouldn`t enjoy it. However, I dont think they need to take away a title as much as give it to guys who can keep it for a while 4-6 months maybe. As far as Del Rio goes, I have no idea.

 

[achromat666]

To attempt to answer your questions:


Should the WWE be rushing the development of their talent?

The funny thing is, they're not shy of talent; but so much of it is undeveloped or underused. Or simply not ready for that status.

There is a much quicker turnover for title reigns, you get no argument there. Part of that is the current audience. Remember how pissed the WWE universe was when JBL held the title for most of the year? Or how indifferent they became to Cena because his reigns were either so long or frequent?

We have an audience that doesn't want to see the title on one person for extended periods. And it does make things difficult for the business.

So talent does need pushing, but pushing this much has lead to less exposed title holders to be soon forgotten as they lose the belt (Jack Swagger, CM Punk's first title reign, who knows after Miz's reign is done). Right now we have the likes of Morrison, Kingston, Del Rio, Bourne, McIntyre, Bryan, DiBiase, Rhodes, and such that are likely candidates to be the next batch of main eventers and future world champions, with Swagger, Sheamus, Punk, and Miz as the guys they'll contend with that have had only a few title runs.

The big problem has been mentioned: with the title changing hands so frequently and people becoming world champ multiple times in short order, how does one keep the value of the title high and keep performers wanting it?

Do you think eliminating one of the world titles would help see a slow rise of multiple champions so soon and would you want to see that?

I think the separate locker rooms of Smackdown and Raw have served one good purpose: they allow for talent to have a show where they can develop. Not having a title on each show might hinder that, and i'm not certain it would have the desired effect for just one belt. It was very much the problem for WWEECW that only having one belt made it hard for everyone on that show to be spotlighted and have a chance to shine. i sadly see that as easily being a direct consequence of reducing them to 1 belt.

Do the talent have their way more often that not? Del Rio was ready to walk and then low and behold he was spotlighted and went on to win the RR?

A bit of a loaded question, I think. The younger talent unless they're in with some of the more established guys I don't see having a lot of say, but things can likely be different the mid card or upper mid card, where a lot of the guys I mentioned are. i didn't know Del Rio was verging on leaving, but I also don't know if that's typical, so it's hard to say.


Very valid questions.

 

[TheTemp]

it's simple really, the sudden uprise in pushing talent is because Wrestlings popularity has gone down so much since the days of Hogan, and then Austin/Rock, so the WWE is trying to bring up their guys faster to see who will click with the audience and fan base so much, that they'll hopefully garner the interest needed, to return wrestling to it's former popularity.

 

[BTLion1990]

Remember how pissed the WWE universe was when JBL held the title for most of the year? Or how indifferent they became to Cena because his reigns were either so long or frequent?

A very good point, but remember the heat that got JBL, HHH and Cena. In a way it builds character and stature because the people we don't want to see having long title runs have them, causing us to hate them and tune in to see when they will finally lose them. Also the person who beats them could maybe have a rub from this as they have finally done the ''unthinkable''. Maybe its just me but hating something so much becomes intriguing and I have to watch to see them lose and finally dethroned as opposed to short meaningless title reigns.

 

[achromat666]

Another thing to consider is the lack of importance put on the other titles, singles or tag. Kingston and Bryan are great performers, but when was the last time the WWE pushed either of those belts like they were even remotely important?

And of course the tag titles are a joke; we've gone from the likes of the Hart Foundation, the Dudley Boys, LOD, Harlem Heat, guys that spent most of or their whole careers as tag team wrestlers to Santino and Koslov who are far from a true tag team. The Hart Dynasty is dead, the Uso's are treated like dirt, and all we have now are mongrel tag teams that don't give the tag titles any clout or respect.

Used to be you could pull from the mid card when you had a Intercontinental/ US Heavyweight title holders and contenders that had the camera time to get over and have people know those titles meant something and they would be the core of your next World Champions. The Rock, Michaels, Austin, Hart, Foley, Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, Van Dam, all of these guys had a solid important run with 2nd tier titles and proved they could run with a belt. Bryan lacks the charisma and Kingston is simply lost in the shuffle, like Benjamin, Carlito, and many others before them.

You can't keep pushing people out of the blue and not expect this. I thought that's what these titles are for? Why haven't Sheamus and Swagger had runs with these belts? why isn't Del Rio US Champion right now? Because the titles don't matter, the WWE isn't giving those belts their due importance.

One last thought: 2 man power trip. 2 of the most over performers in the wrestling world and Triple H has the Intercontinental title. Suddenly the Jeff Hardy seems important because he has a short feud with a main eventer. someone they could put the title on the next day and know things were covered. if they can give that title to him as over as he was and is, what excuse do we have for not giving the talent that needs developing a similar and very important rub?

 

[achromat666]

@BTLion1990: True, and JBL was the seasoned vet that could put over whoever they wanted to push as the next big name, which of course turned out to be Cena. I agree with the logic of keeping a title on a heel as long as they continue to generate heat but it doesn't always work in practice.



My true point was the audience's seeming intolerance of long title reigns. there's something of a balancing act these days to find that right period. You don't want to go with a couple month, but 6 months might be too long for certain stars not ready or cut out for that. At the end of JBL's reign I didn't care who got the belt so long as someone else did. And you right there is merit to that. People felt the same about Ric Flair years before. But most of the current roster hasn't proven themselves able to do that. that's the problem facing the immediate future of the business.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

I see where your coming from and ive been thinking the same thing, Sheamus is already a 2-time WWE champ for god sake!!!! SHEAMUS!!!!! the only guy that did it quicker was Brock Lesnar!! and That was MotherF#*@king BROCK LESNAR! HE BEATS UP HUGE GUYS IN REAL LIFE!!!! AND EVEN BEAT TAKER IN HELL IN A CELL!!!!! THEE most intimidating rookie EVER in my opinion! Its ridiculous to see how fast they push/move some of the talent these days.

BUT, i gotta say one thing on the current youth movement in WWE. ITS SMART AS HELLL!!!! Ya Cena and Orton have alot of titles already and are still young, but look at guys like Edge, Austin, Benoit, Guerro, Hardys etc.(I know cause of unrelated instances....possibly) Benoit and Eddie died shortly after they won the titles for god sake! look at Austin he only wrestled in WWF/E for 6 years approx. full time before his body was so shot and he couldnt even wrestle anymore. and if u STILL need proof, just look at Edge, Matt and Jeff Hardy. They started from the BOTTOM and climbed ALL the way up! it took them all YEARS to get the world title and look wat the result is. Edge is prob gonna retire soon and is still VERY young when you think about the guys like Falir and HBK not retiring till years later. and Matt and Jeff are even younger(while it may be cause of other substances) and they look ever WORSE! these guys worked forever to get where they are and will all retire young, if not kill themselves before, so maybe the youth movement is a good idea, but they could slow it down slightly.

 

[jobesukulele]

I think one of the WWE's problems with the lack of emerging main event talent is coming from the way the promos are handled.
John Morrison is an excellent example of someone who has suffered from this.

The creative team seem to give out strict lines that have to be followed and the end result is that no one ever really gets the chance any more to become an individual, with the exception of the guys who are already at the top.

I don't know what the fix is to this problem, maybe if they started giving the wrestlers a heads up a day in advance of what the situation would be and then leave them to work out the promo for themselves (with a rule set to stick to in the PG environment).

The natural progress up the ranks has definitely been lost, that much is for sure.

 

[DeathClutch]

WWE needs to continue the youth movement. It doesn't hurt to have a bunch of young guys main eventing and in the mix for when them times come when the big names are injured or retired.

People talking about when WCW poached WWE's top guys in 1994-1996/97 WWE was in the process of pushing younger guys, one who never gets the credit he deserves and was a few years ahead of his time was Goldust, his character IMO was The Attitude Era BEFORE the Attitude Era was talked about.

WWE needs to continue pushing the younger guys, don't job them out and make them look bad (Santino) he's comedy gold but a legit contender no, yet his in ring skills are that good.