Last night Raw ended with Randy Orton kneeling over an unconscious Steph-o-mac staring at her...and giving her a peck on th lips. If this was late 90s or early 2000s Raw, he would have done a lot worse. I'm absolutely not advocating this, but if the WWE is going to tease something like Randy Orton taking advantage of an unconscious Steph, they need to do something a little more drastic then a pre-school kiss. One only has to look back to the Katie Vick angle or even the live-sex Edge and Lita celebration to see how the WWE has switched its product. I believe that the kiss actually took steam away from the angle. HHH looked like a moron flipping out over the kiss, whereas had Orton actually kissed her, it would have justified HHH's reaction. What is HHH's promo going to be? "I was so super upset when you barely grazed my wife's lips when she was knocked out!" Come on. Bring back SOME edge to your product WWE.
Death of Attitude
- Thread starter Blueshirt
- Start date
Comes with the new t.v rating really.They aren't as free as they used to be with what the put on t.v now days.If they still had as much freedom as they did in the attitude era things might have gone more towards your liking but as it stands i think they cleaned up alot of their image to appear more kid friendly.While some things work with this set up i have to agree i did like the more edgy story lines like when DX took a drunk passed out Steph and her and Hunter "got married"
I have to disagree with the OP here. I think the kiss wasn't about fulfulling any particular desire within Orton. It was purely to emasculate HHH. It was a way of saying to HHH "I am this close to your wife, the mother of your children, and you are right here, yet powerless to do anything about it." I thought it made Orton look pretty good, personally.
I watched an old episode of raw on a free on-demand trial a couple weeks ago and dx-hunter said that he was gonna use every weapon in he arsenal on sgt slaughter except for one that 'im gonna save for your old lady.... and its the big bazoookaaa'. after watching that i thought to myself that there is no way that he would get away with that today. I couldnt even believe he said it. HHH and HBK used to stroke the t-shirt cannon before launching it and austin gave fingers to everyone all day. when was the last time we saw someone really use the middle finger??? the only edge that WWE has anymore in its entire company is EDGE. he is the only guy left who has broken up matt hardy, went after eddie's fiance and then cheted on her with the wedding planner. outside of EDGE, there is no edge.
blkbrucewillis
Dark Match Winner
I'm sure Orton would of done worse if they weren't pg these days.
Oh My God, more countless bitching in here about da WWE and it's PG Rating. Obviously none of you thus far in this thread are old enough to appreciate the pleasures of a woman, because you simply don't get it.
What Randy Orton did last night was far, far worse then anything physically that he could have done. What, Randy Orton punt her in the head? How about, strip her naked, and make her bark like a dog in the middle of the ring? Maybe he'll put his hand up into her vagina and pull out a plastic hand? Maybe he'll do something that'll make Stephanie begin to vomit on command because that is what Attitude is. Get the fuck over the Attitude Era. That Era is Dead, that Era sucked, and that Era couldn't have produced anything remotely as good as what happened last night.
8 years ago going into Wrestlemania X-7, Debra was Steve Austin's wife, and then McMahon made her the Rock's manager. So what happens, Austin puts the Rock personally in charge for her safety and makes her responsible for anything that happens to her. Kurt Angle attacks Debra, Austin kicks Angle and Rock's ass for it. So what happens, absolutely nothing out of it. Debra was physically assaulted, and then taken out of the match for no reason other then, lets take her out of the picture. The result, no one gave a damn about that angle.
Fast Forward to last night. A man is handcuffed to a ring rope, while his wife is driven head first into the canvas in front of him. As a husband, he was helpless, and the situation was hopeless. Randy Orton could have bludgeoned her with a sledgehammer, but then what? Triple H then becomes more concerned about the welfare of his wife, and Orton becomes an afterthought. Instead, Orton does the one thing that any normal person that has been in a serious relationship would be absolutely furious over, taking advantage of a helpless significant other. Randy Orton kissing an unconscious Stephanie McMahon was the ultimate mind game, and it's going to piss Triple H off beyond all control.
How anyone is bitching about that and going, Gawd, Attude ErA ruLeZ lasT nite Wuz Lame, obviously has never been in a relationship before. The attitude era is dead, the attitude era did more damage then good in the long run, and what happened last night was far better build for a feud than anything the Attitude Era could have dreamt of producing.
What Randy Orton did last night was far, far worse then anything physically that he could have done. What, Randy Orton punt her in the head? How about, strip her naked, and make her bark like a dog in the middle of the ring? Maybe he'll put his hand up into her vagina and pull out a plastic hand? Maybe he'll do something that'll make Stephanie begin to vomit on command because that is what Attitude is. Get the fuck over the Attitude Era. That Era is Dead, that Era sucked, and that Era couldn't have produced anything remotely as good as what happened last night.
8 years ago going into Wrestlemania X-7, Debra was Steve Austin's wife, and then McMahon made her the Rock's manager. So what happens, Austin puts the Rock personally in charge for her safety and makes her responsible for anything that happens to her. Kurt Angle attacks Debra, Austin kicks Angle and Rock's ass for it. So what happens, absolutely nothing out of it. Debra was physically assaulted, and then taken out of the match for no reason other then, lets take her out of the picture. The result, no one gave a damn about that angle.
Fast Forward to last night. A man is handcuffed to a ring rope, while his wife is driven head first into the canvas in front of him. As a husband, he was helpless, and the situation was hopeless. Randy Orton could have bludgeoned her with a sledgehammer, but then what? Triple H then becomes more concerned about the welfare of his wife, and Orton becomes an afterthought. Instead, Orton does the one thing that any normal person that has been in a serious relationship would be absolutely furious over, taking advantage of a helpless significant other. Randy Orton kissing an unconscious Stephanie McMahon was the ultimate mind game, and it's going to piss Triple H off beyond all control.
How anyone is bitching about that and going, Gawd, Attude ErA ruLeZ lasT nite Wuz Lame, obviously has never been in a relationship before. The attitude era is dead, the attitude era did more damage then good in the long run, and what happened last night was far better build for a feud than anything the Attitude Era could have dreamt of producing.
ice_man5135
New Member
I agree totally with Rex. With last nights insane twist to this match...this will me awesome and WM. I remember watching the Attitude Era and yeah it ruled back them but times change and no one can help that. But I digrese...this is the only angle so far that has kept me of the edge of my seat with everything going on. Rewind to when this start to heat up....shane get the punted and then steph gets a mad RKO. my jaw just dropped and I couldnt say anything. Cuz you normally dont see this alot on tv but damn that was awesome. IMO, this will the be best match at WM.
ThePeoplesChampion
Getting Noticed By Management
I agree with u on some things but i dont agree with the attitude era sucking.....if u think bout it....think bout all the great matches during then and the storylines was good too....now i do agree with u and the kiss part....i mean if someone did that to me and my girlfriend i would flip....i dont get how someone could say oh wow he kissed ur wife big deal....u must not have had a girlfriend or wife or watever ur into ......but really think u see the person u love being kissed by the one person u hate the most thats going to get under ur skin and kill u inside.....orton is getting into hunters head.
its obvious some people first got into wrestling with the additude era.and now that the products change and most of the additude is gone they just simply cant enjoy the product anymore.i could be wrong but thats what it seems.as for last nights angel,i loved it.it really pushes this fued to a whole new level.what better way to take advantage of the situation than to hang cuff trips to the ropes.bring out steph.and since trips is helpless orton was free to do what ever he pleased to steph.
even though all orton did was kiss her on the lips.thats really all it takes to get in somebodys head.if it were my wife or girlfriend.id be flipping mad as well.doing anything else just seems to extreme and unnecessary.well played out
even though all orton did was kiss her on the lips.thats really all it takes to get in somebodys head.if it were my wife or girlfriend.id be flipping mad as well.doing anything else just seems to extreme and unnecessary.well played out
First, far be it from me to question the ability of a man who has posted nearly 5,000 times on this board to know the pleasures of a woman.
Second, you characterize a person who liked the attitude era as a person who cannot spell or type correctly, but you begin your post with using the word "da."
Third, are you saying any person that watches and enjoys a criminal or medical drama that outlines a man taking advantage over a woman that results in more than a kiss has never been in a relationship before?
Fourth, this is FANTASY that's the entire point. Whether i am 13 and a virgin or 50 with three kids, it isn't my life that has been put on television. Wrestling is fake, while it is supposed to touch on real life experiences, it pushes these real life beliefs and feelings to the extreme. I'm sorry that in my mundane life i've never been handcuffed to a ring while my wife was unconscious from a ddt. Maybe I would react harsh to a peck on the lips.
Fifth, and finally, I never said that I miss the attitude era or that it was better. I was simply pointing out how times have changed.
If i have mischaracterized anything that you have said, I apologize even though you seemed to have not given the same courtesy to me.
golden miz
.... BECAUSE I'M AWESOME
i agree with rex about the aditude era sucking in some ways, lets face it did anyone want to see may young give birth to a hand again. How about Mr. Ass and his ass kissing challanges if you lost a match you had to kiss the fattest ugliest ass. How about the drunk mariage angle or the shane vs the car battery. How about the whole thing of including monster heels only to back them off. How bout turning the brilliant physcotic mankind into a loveable joke. Heres the kicker how about another kernell from hell match? Well all these prove that the additude era had its major flaws too, if any of these events happened stand alone today it will turn off fans. The only reason ths era is popular was because wresling was the cool thing. Sure their were good matches like their are today and posibbly some matches were better just based on the tallent they had on the roster at that time. But overall what happened recently on raw is making the product more mature, they still have their kiddy angels, but if you think you need to see a dumb old ugly washed up hag give birth to a hand for it to be an adult program, then you are deluded because thats an example of aninmature storyline. A mature storyline is chris jericho's or randy/hhh A big improvement since they are finnaly building up one to two storylines that are great, in the additude era I cant remeber them ever proply bulding up a angle like life and death
I completely agree with this section of your post. I felt the intensity throughout the all promo. I was actually on the edge of my computer chair thinking "Oh no he wouldn't. Nah he wouldn't do that". I was actually shocked that he went as far as kissing her while she was helpless, and her also helpless husband couldn't do anything except watch. Randy Orton was the king of playing mind games that night, and all the workers involved acted greatly and made it a really good segment. I'm really pumped for this storyline.
Steamboat Ricky
WZCW's Living Legend
Holy crap. 
Katie Vick? Are we really bringing that up? That was like the quintessential low point for the entirety of WWE's existence. And we want more of that? We want more of Edge/Lita live sex celebration?? Why? What was the point of that, other than to get some cheap, nostalgic ratings so that 14 year olds could see some "live sex"? I don't watch wrestling for sleaze, junior, and the fans that have stood the test of time don't either. I'm likely the biggest Attitude mark on the forums, but Attitude wasn't about sleazy, cheap T and A. It was about storylines just like any other. The characters were more over the top and risque, but they were not having "live sex" and/or staging sex with a dead person.
What did you want Randy to do...rape Steph? First of all, that would just be lewd. Second of all, how would that possibly give him more heat? That would just reveal that Orton is some sick pervert who is totally unable to command any kind of respect. By merely kissing Steph, Orton is getting Jake Roberts/Liz heat. We don't know what kind of psycho Orton is...he just kissed her. There's still more to find out about the inner-workings of Orton, and that's going to draw people in.
It was a masterful spot last night, and you all should watch it 10 times today.
Katie Vick? Are we really bringing that up? That was like the quintessential low point for the entirety of WWE's existence. And we want more of that? We want more of Edge/Lita live sex celebration?? Why? What was the point of that, other than to get some cheap, nostalgic ratings so that 14 year olds could see some "live sex"? I don't watch wrestling for sleaze, junior, and the fans that have stood the test of time don't either. I'm likely the biggest Attitude mark on the forums, but Attitude wasn't about sleazy, cheap T and A. It was about storylines just like any other. The characters were more over the top and risque, but they were not having "live sex" and/or staging sex with a dead person.
What did you want Randy to do...rape Steph? First of all, that would just be lewd. Second of all, how would that possibly give him more heat? That would just reveal that Orton is some sick pervert who is totally unable to command any kind of respect. By merely kissing Steph, Orton is getting Jake Roberts/Liz heat. We don't know what kind of psycho Orton is...he just kissed her. There's still more to find out about the inner-workings of Orton, and that's going to draw people in.
It was a masterful spot last night, and you all should watch it 10 times today.
Mr Wrestlemania
Occasional Pre-Show
I know what you mean, but to be fair I feel I've grown out of the Attitude Era. I was about 11-12 during that time. I'm 22 now. Looking back at stuff most of those storylines were so ridiculous, that I can see why I dug them! Though in contrast to your opinion, the Katie Vick storyline wasn't Attitude....that was just horrendous. Hands down the worst idea ever. Moving on.....I feel that last night constituted that there's still a semblance of Attitude left in the product during the PG Era. Even in the crowd adults cheer and buy crazy merchandise for a guy who everyone knows doesn't drink, smoke, or do drugs. Orton just pecking Steph's lips was just a way to get his point across to Triple H. Hunter was supposed to be distraught over the fact that his wife was unconscious so I don't think Orton needed to inject too much more shock value into the segment. Randy came off as twisted and sadistic, which is great for the character and Wrestlemania buildup, and didn't flinch when anticipating and then actually DDTing Steph. Anymore and it would've been overkill rather than a cherry on top.
TakeAdooKie
CM F'n Punk
Ever heard the expression "Less is More"?
Last night WWE did it. They turned a match that at the beginning no one wanted, claiming "they've wrestled a million times already!" into a match that every fan will be waiting for like a child waiting for morning on the night of Christmas eve. They pulled it off perfectly and if Orton would have done anything more then what he did, he may have ruined it. But what he did do was perfect, absolutely perfect!!!
On another note, people need to let the Attitude Era go, please. Some of you loved it, others claim it ruined wrestling, ect. But that was like 10 or more years ago and it's time to let it go friends. As a matter of fact, D-Man made a post that was more like a column yesterday and I suggest you all give it a read if you haven't already.
Last night WWE did it. They turned a match that at the beginning no one wanted, claiming "they've wrestled a million times already!" into a match that every fan will be waiting for like a child waiting for morning on the night of Christmas eve. They pulled it off perfectly and if Orton would have done anything more then what he did, he may have ruined it. But what he did do was perfect, absolutely perfect!!!
On another note, people need to let the Attitude Era go, please. Some of you loved it, others claim it ruined wrestling, ect. But that was like 10 or more years ago and it's time to let it go friends. As a matter of fact, D-Man made a post that was more like a column yesterday and I suggest you all give it a read if you haven't already.
SAMBOLIEWWE
Occasional Pre-Show
Everyone knows why they are going back to PG right. They are going in cycles . The Attitude Era will return. Probably with a different name, or theme, but it will. WWE is targeting kids because they realize that they need to get them hooked early, like we all were. Then years from now, when all these Cena fans are starting to get tired of him, ( im talking the kids, not all the Cena haters. ) they will have him turn and be a huge heel. They will also Have some rebel stand up and break all the rules, and these Kids, ( now teenagers ) are gonna love every second of it, ( Cena - Hogan NWO turn>>> Rebel - Austin ) The Attitude Era wouldnt have meant shit if there was not years of all the saying your prayers and eating your vitamins. The Warriors, the HitMans the Doinks , or the Rocky Maivias .
I think last night was done perfectly. I was so glad Orton didn't do something that went too far. It has meaning to it. You dont have to rape a woman in front of her Husband to show him up. The simple kiss showed disrespect to Steph, and Trips. and showed Hunter there was nothing he could do about it.
I think last night was done perfectly. I was so glad Orton didn't do something that went too far. It has meaning to it. You dont have to rape a woman in front of her Husband to show him up. The simple kiss showed disrespect to Steph, and Trips. and showed Hunter there was nothing he could do about it.
Reverend Truth
Dark Match Winner
I've been watching wrestling since the early 80's and have seen a lot of trends as far as "attitude" era and others. For those complaining about last night's RAW with Orton/HHH, you're wrong. That segment with everything that happened was great. It was handled very well. The best feuds are always about the characters and their stories.
What more could he have done? Fondled her? Dry humped her? Had the rest of Legacy join a circle jerk around her?
No, this was actually one of the better written segments of the feud. Orton has thus far looked weak. Hunter has either gone over the group, Orton used Lawyers and/or Cops to weasel his way, or there was a generic beat down.
Orton has not looked like a credible threat to HHH at all. To an extent, that's fine, Hunter is the monster face that has furious righteous indignation on his side. However, Orton needed an edge. He needed to prove that he is just as manipulative and intelligent as HHH. And he had to prove that he is just plain sicker.
The spike ddt from the ropes was great. It looked good, and Steph sold it perfectly. The kiss afterwards was just another FU to Hunter. Anything more would have been gratuitous and unnecessary. Having HHH stand there and watch his wife get attacked and then violated by such a simple thing as a kiss, unable to do *anything* was perfect. The feud is *finally* getting interesting, and Orton is *finally* proving that he can hang with the Game and deserves a main event spot at Mania.
No, this was actually one of the better written segments of the feud. Orton has thus far looked weak. Hunter has either gone over the group, Orton used Lawyers and/or Cops to weasel his way, or there was a generic beat down.
Orton has not looked like a credible threat to HHH at all. To an extent, that's fine, Hunter is the monster face that has furious righteous indignation on his side. However, Orton needed an edge. He needed to prove that he is just as manipulative and intelligent as HHH. And he had to prove that he is just plain sicker.
The spike ddt from the ropes was great. It looked good, and Steph sold it perfectly. The kiss afterwards was just another FU to Hunter. Anything more would have been gratuitous and unnecessary. Having HHH stand there and watch his wife get attacked and then violated by such a simple thing as a kiss, unable to do *anything* was perfect. The feud is *finally* getting interesting, and Orton is *finally* proving that he can hang with the Game and deserves a main event spot at Mania.
Well what the crap do you want the WWE to do? They have gone PG, for the better. Its the best thing to ever happen to the WWE. My parents had PG-13 blocked on my TV forever, and I'm sure anyone else with strict parents do as well. They are targeting children, whats wrong with that? The TV quality hasn't gone anywhere, we see sadistical stuff. Just not as much blood.
Seeing as how they have went PG what did you want them to do to Steph? Rape her live?? ...His husband was right there, not to mention children were in the front row seat. Even a child can understand that little kiss was wrong, that HHH would want to beat Randy Orton to a bloody pulp. Come on now?
What do you mean bring back some edge? Edge speared Vickey Gurrerro, and Randy Orton did that little DDT off the ropes onto Steph. Women beating isn't edgy enough for you anymore? =\\ Next week the ending should see HHH making Randy suck his penis as he takes a sledge hammer to his Nutts now, because that right there. Would be edgey enough right? Honestly man, think about it, the quality has gone no where. They are still doing WWE style wrestling. They are just targeting a younger age, and took the bloody mess they used to put on out of the television.
Notice last night how Flair got busted open by the camera. There was barely any blood compared to a normal Ric Flair bleed. How is that anything diffrent as to what they put on? Shawn Micheals/Undertaker said they sent people to hell, leaving them to rot for eternity? How the crap is that not have an "Edge" to it. Pretty dadgum sure I saw Edge agaisnt Big Show on RAW last night anyways.
Scott Free
The man of a thousand rest holds.
I thought the whole thing was redundant, HHH is already fighting Orton because of Steph, so they went and replayed the same card again ? I don't understand how you can say Orton "can hang with the Game" when he's being painted as a guy that need 2 other people and handcuffs to subdue the mighty King of Kings. If they wanted to make the match at WM 25 more interesting, Orton should have done what anybody would have done in his place, and that is, destroy HHH with his own sledge hammer. That would have made HHH weaker, all Orton did was piss him off some more, and their match is going to be nothing short of a squash match for Orton.
The first attack on Steph can possibly, maybe, perhaps be attributed to the so called IED. This one though? He forces her out to the ring, has his goons surround her, and assaults her in a calm and completely rational manner. There was no heat of the moment. He hurt her to show HHH that he can. This isn't IED, this is Orton being a vile and disgusting human being. This adds heat to the match.
Handcuffs and 2 goons are icing on the cake. He proved he can outsmart the cerebral assassin by having his goon in wait, and that he can plot out an entire trap to not only get Hunter, but also his wife. He outplayed the Game. That is way better than a generic beat down with a sledge hammer. This was great heel behavior. He emasculates his opponent, and gives himself massive momentum.
I highly doubt that it will be squash match at Mania. WWE seems very high on Orton as a key figure for the company in the future, so I doubt that they would feed him to HHH. I'm hoping it's a nice long 30+ minute match that ends the show. HHH *should* go over, but if the bookers and agents do their job, they can make Orton look like absolute gold doing so.
But the fact that your complaining about a man kissing another mans wife on stage. In front of millions of viewers, just makes no sense, at all. Its not edgey enough? Its a childrens show man, they can't just let children think its okay to stick their tounge down someones throat. Heck, if I had children I wouldn't allow them to watch another man stick his tounge down another man's wife throat. Seriously. Thats adultry. Not to mention Trips was right there, I'm suprised they let it go that far. They don't need live sex celebrations, on a CHILDRENS show. Look at the audiance, most people, have a child. Its only fitting they become PG, and take out the blood, take out the live sex celebrations. I mean come on, what else have we really lost?
The Catacomb
Bringer of the Apocalypse
Whoa! Tell us how you really feel. Ha!Ha! Just kidding. I agree in that I thought it was well played out and really, what more could Orton have done? He ain't gonna rape her in front of the crowd. One thing I don't get is, why did they move over to USA network? I thought the reason they left Spike is because they couldn't do the extreme thing they did before. Then they get on USA again and go P.G. when USA wanted a ronchy show? Wierd. Anyway, I was glad to see blood again with Flair cutting himself and I still think the ending to last night's show was good. There was the tension that this fued has been missing. And by the way, I strongly disagree that the attitude era sucked. It was my favorite era and one for the history books.
Milk[lw];953488 said:
Seriously, what is with America's (and by America's i mean OUR) squeamishness when it comes to sex. Early in the show we had a 60 year old man being throttled by a camera (thats assualt and battery, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted manslaughter) not to mention Jeff Hardy threatening to kill his brother in an extreme rules match (fraternicide, assualt, battery, etc.). You wouldn't let your children watch a tongue kiss (which im pretty sure occured in high school musical) but you would let them watch blood-violence? I don't think they NEED adultery, but it certainly makes it fun to watch. Once again, I can't articulate hard enough that i do NOT condone rape or abuse to women, i was just making a point that it is funny how the WWE has really toned shit down. Did it make for a better story line? I think it might have. Did it represent a change from their old ideology? Absolutely.
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