Day Wrestling Died

King Douche

Pre-Show Stalwart
Now I may be overreacting a little but I feel the day wrestling died is when the territory system ended and Vince with his monoply mindset tried to or did take over wrestling companies. I mean sure he made wrestling mainstrean with big help and have it earn alot of money, but if still in the territory system, wrestling still could of been mainstream. Hogan in WWF still would of drawed people in. But Vince wanted WWF seperate from everybody and try to destroy all the promotions and take it over. Now their no competition these days outside TNA, and they not ready yet clearly, its just sad. Wrestling not even wrestling no more its knock off hollywood. And you have WWE marks or whatever you call them that only watch WWE and nobody esle cause they pro WWE and all that nonsense.

I mean they clearly will not give other companies a chance, they bash the companies without even watching the shows. Then if they do watch one show and it turns out not great they down play it without giving it more try;s at watching the show. Hopefully wrestling will go back to what it use to be. Now I know the territory system will never return again, but hope that it becomes great like it use to be. Man do I miss them golden days of professional wrestling.
 
Perfectly said....

I have said in the past had Paul Heyman had the $ continue the original ECW then we would have seen Vince go under or had Paul been the big man in WCW with their money it would have been WWE going bankrupt...

Paul tried to go national, but he just didnt have the $ himself, nor the financial backing to do so...

But Paul understood the territories and what they offered... Oh well I think TNA will succeed where WCW fail and that is put Vince in his place and it will again help create the territories for up and coming stars to hone their skills
 
I think it's a great thing Vince made that happened. Things change. And this was a change for the better, we wouldnt have had the true golden age, the biggest time in wrestling history. The Monday Night Wars. Disagree if you want, I'm not saying the past wasnt good wrestling, but this period of time was undoubtedly when wrestling was at its peak and most popular and not to mention the ratings say it all.

But I feel give it a chance. I hate TNA, but I want it to succeed because I understand that competition is better for all of us as fans to have.

So I'm not a fan of TNA but I want the MNWII to continue
And last night's TNA was the best TNA show imo. I do not watch, but I think it was the best show having not watched many for the reasons that it was the start of something bigger than the company itself and in the long run everyone will be happy


I'm hoping this brings out the best in WWE and hopefully a new Attitude soon.

And that already looks good for the future after what I saw last night
 
I couldn't agree with you more. You know, on WWE 24/7 Legends, they talked about this and they all agreed that the territories were what built the stars of tomorrow. They learned ring technology, mic skills, and honed their craft before heading to larger territories. They said how there's no offense to OVW, but learning from different territories helped them for they learned how to be heel/face and take the abuse if the character fails. They learn to reinvent themselves and become stronger for it.

In the WWE, if your character fails, you never get seen again. There is no where to go except TNA (if they'll accept you). Independents are great for novelty wrestling (XPW), but few if any stars come from them; and they tend to hire drug addicts. The territories were their own small promotion. They had their good and bad talent, but they weren't judged so harshly as today. They had a chance.

I know I'm repeating another thread but this is what I was saying about TNA going head to head with WWE. If they fail, WWE wins another territory. Wrestling seriously NEEDS competition. Without it, it will become stale and wither away slowly. Without competition, there is no need to strive for a better product; it becomes lackluster. I like TNA and WWE and see absolutely no reason for them to compete head to head. One is going to lose...and sorry TNA, but soon as you brought back the cancer that helped kill WCW (Bishoff and the NWO), you're on borrowed time. Hell, the first things out of their mouths were "big paychecks"...nothing about wrestling-it's a shame.
 
WWE marks huh? Marks like me? That enjoy WWE more than TNA, although not by much. Am I WWE mark?

Or do you mean the WWE marks that almost cost Vince his WWF. The same marks that saw what Nitro had and turned off Raw and tuned in every week. What was it, 84 weeks? 86 weeks?

I'm so fucking sick of idiots spouting off WWE marks this, WWE marks that. WCW almost crippled WWE, you think NONE of those fans were WWE fans first? No. It was because it was a better show. Nitro had a better show than WWE for a long long time. So I tuned in to that. The PPV I most remember being hyped for wasn't a WWE PPV. It was Starrcade 97.

If TNA wants to beat WWE it's simple. Give us a better show, and we will watch more. I DON'T want to see Hogan, Hall, Nash, Nastie Boys, Jeff, Dixie, Bobby Lashley, Bischoff, Russo, Orlando Jordan, Flair,Xpac. I've seen enough of those guys. I want something new. I want Wolfe, I want the Pope, I want AJ Styles, I want Joe back to being the badass he was before Angle. I want the beautiful people. I want an X division. That's what I care about. What's what made me order the 10 dollar weekly PPVs.

I don't want 6 sided rings, or reverse battle royales or Angle and Sting flipping heel and face every 2 months.

Give the people a good show and I promise you the ratings will come eventually.

You don't think I'm sick of Cena? You don't think I'm disgusted that Vince YET again teased a breakup of Legacy only for it to be worthless. I'm tired of Hornswallows as much as anybody. So ya know what I do? I don't order their PPVs, I don't buy any merchandise and sometimes I watch Raw. Sometimes. Just because I enjoy Raw more than TNA doesn't make me a WWE mark, cause there are still some aspects of Raw I enjoy
 
Not sure what to say with this thread.. it seems like a bitch session, so I'll just add to it.

First off, Paul Heyman and ECW would never have had the power to make WWF go under. Even with the money, they couldnt have done that. Like you said, with WCW he could have done it, but never with ECW.

The old days of territorial wrestling orgs was great. I loved watching Florida Championship or World Class or UWF back in the day. To get to know those wrestlers and see them move up to Crockett or WWF was very exciting. I'd love to flip through my PWI magazines and see wrestlers that I never saw on television and hope to see them some day. I'd love to have those magazines back.

Wrestling today is glossed up and tons of production value. The smaller companies out there could still put on a good hour broadcast every week, but it wouldnt fit the mold of today's wrestling programs. Even a smaller company like ROH can put on an hour long show, but even it has pretty decent production value. Even I balk at the sight of that show sometimes. The very small companies could do this, but it would look too much like a gymnasium show right out of The Wrestler.

I remember watching Florida Wrestling in the mid/late 80s and there was a long long segment with Dusty Rhodes sitting in a chair next to Blackjack Mulligan and talking for a long period of time. I cant even remember what they were talking about, but we watched it just because it was wrestling. Does anyone remember this? I'm waiting for it to show up on ESPN Classic.. hah
 
We all wish there were more territories, but some of that may be Vince's fault but not all of it. There just isn't enough support out in the public to have all these territories. Back during the first Monday Night War yes, maybe. But not now.

WWE just drew a 3.9 and 4.0 and they are THRILLED. WITH Bret Hart's return. That's not great folks

TNA just drew a 1.5 with a billion so called "draw"s. That's not good folks.

How do you think these territories are going to survive? Money is tight now days. ROH seems to be doing decent, but they won't last too much longer if WWE and TNA keeps taking their talent. But who could blame WWE, TNA, or the wrestlers. Everybody wants WWE and TNA to have great shows. Well it takes great talent. That talent has to come somewhere. If there were 4 or 5 major territories right now you would see them being raided by WWE and TNA as we speak, and they would be dead.

Back in the 70's and 80's people lived wrestling. They loved wrestling. Wrestling was a way of life. Think of Carolinas with Flair, or Von Erichs in Dallas. or Funks in Florida. Dusty in Florida. Now days every one of those guys would have already been with either TNA or WWE leaving that town dead.
 
I've heard the argument/question before, "when did wrestling die?". The death of territories? The montreal screwjob bringing the death of kayfabe? Wrestling never died, it simply evolved. You can say what you want but Vince simply succeeded where others before him failed. The "territories" were always trying to expand and slowly take over other territories to become bigger and bigger. Love him or hate him, Vince was the first to become a national company in all reality.
 
I agree with a lot of the posts here. For once. It's almost as if a lot of the intelligent wrestling fans in hiding came out of the woodwork to give their 2 cents worth after watching the shows last night. I believe the day wrestling died is different for different people based on what generation they grew up in. For me, wrestling died the day that WCW was bought by WWE since this meant there was no more competition for WWE and they were no longer required to put forth a wrestling program of any substance. Until last night, WWE wrestling had been getting staler and staler, and if anything could wake WWE up it was Hulk Hogan challenging WWE and putting forth their show last night. I also agree with those bashing WWE marks. I hate them too, and the funny thing is they don't even get that their marks. They just hate anything that isn't WWE. WWE is like a favourite sports team to them. No matter what's happening around them, they believe everything the WWE machine propagates and they imitate columnists douches, like MM, and put a negative spin on anything that isn't John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Triple H or Randy Orton. But the thing is it is these very wrestlers who play their politics the best and have been able to use their power behind the scenes to position themselves positively with the majority of wrestling marks.

To those "marks" who say they would rather waste two hours an evening watching clean cut guys with no charisma wrestling a worthless match (so to keep Triple H and Shawn Michaels permanently over as the only two guys with any credibility) instead of watching a much more manly, logical, and entertaining match or skit in TNA from charismatic characters like Hall or Nash or Hogan i say HA! You're full of it, and those who who say bull like that are true marks who wouldn't know entertainment if it hit them right in the face. Marks, along with horny women with no social life and guys with chips on their shoulders like Mark Madden are basically saying they'd rather watch carbon copy douchbags with robotic movements, memorized scripts, and everyday haircuts, like Dibiase and Rhodes Those guys suck ass and only appeal to marks who rely on Stephanie McMahon-penned scripts for their imagination. The Miz? Yah whatever, pass me the remote so i can sit on the sidelines again for another 10 years while i protest the state of wrestling entertainment. I'll take my credible old guys who can't wrestle worth shit but who still can keep me entertained with their mic skills before i'll ever take some 28 year old douchbag with absolutely no charisma or drawing power tripping all over his lines and wrestling like a robot. Wrestling, to me, died when the competition disappeared in wrestling. Now wrestling is alive temporarily as the real wrestlers of the past, like Hogan, Flair, Sting, are here to build and push the real wrestlers of the future WWE and TNA. Ultimately, this can only mean good things for wrestling fans and for wrestling's future, as long as TNA and Hogan are not snuffed out before they even get started. And we all know Vinny Mac will do everything in his power to have TNA come crumbling down so he can continue his monopoly of boring programming and minimal spending. Nonetheless, this more competitive atmosphere will hopefully mean an end to the corporate hack type of boring wrestler like John Cena/Triple H, and bring forth the re-emergence of the charismatic and entertaining type of wrestler like Stone Cold or the Rock. Here's hoping 2010.
 
In the end, Vince brought more to the table than he took away.

Yes, the territories were the BEST training grounds, for performers and announcers/mangers/valets/etc. They were personal, didn't have to worry about keeping creative support for 30+ performers, and they weren't as shackled by network television companies as modern national companies are.

We have territories now, they are called the indys. Yes, most of it is "garbage" hardcore style "wrestling" (XPW, CZW, etc...), but it is what it is (and there are good places out there, like ROH & PWG). If by territories you mean that there no longer is a national product and that all promotions run in their respective areas only, I regret to inform you that you will be waiting a long time. There is quite simply not enough money and not enough of an audience in most places to justify restrictive territories.

You are right that the death of the territories changed the business, but I do not feel it was the death of wrestling. Whether one likes "rock n' roll" wrestling or not, it simply can not be denied that without Vince's "monopoly mindset" (btw, what was Jim Crockett doing with his company during this time?), most of us on these forums, and in truth most of us watching today, would not be here. We would have never seen anything as well produced (quality, not content) as WCW and WWE. And while many of you may wish for a more exclusive and authentic style of wrestling, it would have made for an industry even more ostracized than it is now in the general public's eye, making it even less appetizing to investors and to would-be performers.

Bringing this back to Vince; if he hadn't taken the WWWF national, someone else would have. Vince followed his vision before the rest of the owners did, but even as far back as then there were power players and politicians in the NWA hoping to take charge of the ship and make a buck along the way. Everyone wanted their promotion to eventually be the better one in the end, and Vince was only guilty of doing it the right (read: profitable) way. It was a shoddy, rickety system that was trumped by evolution.

I do have some issues with the original post, as while half of it is a valid question, the other half is unsupported lies and slander on viewers not in line with your tastes. Let me explain:

If you say: "McMahon ruined wrestling by going national", you are opening up for a possibly great debate/conversation/forum post on his impact on the industry and how it does things. Even if it's based on opinion it's still "fair" because it's a statement that doesn't try to assume my opinions and doesn't try to insult me for them.

And you have WWE marks or whatever you call them that only watch WWE and nobody esle cause they pro WWE and all that nonsense

When you say this, you are sounding like a child and not someone most would want to take seriously. And you aren't really making any sense. In wrestling, reading, video games, and really just anything in life that requires a bit of my time or my money, I am going to go with the product that I enjoy most. Am I a "WWE Mark" and "pro WWE" because I watch Raw more often than ROH or TNA, and because I might once in awhile purchase a WWE PPV but I've never bought a TNA PPV? No, I'm just picky about where I spend my time and money. If I felt TNA delivered a better product, I would be watching them. I agree that it's unfortunate that many viewers will only pick one brand and will never give other promotions a proper chance to impress them. But I don't feel that it's fair to blast them as problems isolated only to WWE. I have a close friend who never gave WWE a chance, and once WCW closed down he never watched a show again. Unfortunate, but I can't force him to like something if he really doesn't want to give it a shot. And it wouldn't be right to.

AND finally (I swear), while I'm not opposed to criticism of McMahon (or really anyone), what I don't have patience for is outright lying and incorrect characterization.
McMahon never had a monopoly in mind. He never bought out companies (minus WCW and ECW), he never "forced companies closed". If anything, he wanted NOTHING to do with as much of the old system as possible. His vision wasn't "take over", it was to separate the WWE from what was around it and make it something new (for better or for worse is for people like us to debate until the end of days). If you want a company that outrightly tried to close other companies, sought to wreck other promotions, and had always stated it wanted to take over wrestling forever, look at WCW under Eric Bischoff. Hate McMahon if you want, from I what I read and hear about him he sounds like a dick. But at least be respectful enough to know what you are talking about.
 
Now I may be overreacting a little but I feel the day wrestling died is when the territory system ended and Vince with his monoply mindset tried to or did take over wrestling companies. I mean sure he made wrestling mainstrean with big help and have it earn alot of money, but if still in the territory system, wrestling still could of been mainstream. Hogan in WWF still would of drawed people in. But Vince wanted WWF seperate from everybody and try to destroy all the promotions and take it over. Now their no competition these days outside TNA, and they not ready yet clearly, its just sad. Wrestling not even wrestling no more its knock off hollywood. And you have WWE marks or whatever you call them that only watch WWE and nobody esle cause they pro WWE and all that nonsense.

I mean they clearly will not give other companies a chance, they bash the companies without even watching the shows. Then if they do watch one show and it turns out not great they down play it without giving it more try;s at watching the show. Hopefully wrestling will go back to what it use to be. Now I know the territory system will never return again, but hope that it becomes great like it use to be. Man do I miss them golden days of professional wrestling.

I think maybe what you mean is that the end of the territory systems was the end of OLD-SCHOOL wrestling.... I think things are honestly better without the territory system because as times change, so do things such as wrestling. Becoming sports-entertainment brought in an endless amount of fans (myself being one of them) who prefer for it to be a show rather than the older style. We might not have the territory system anymore, but we have two big federations (WWE, TNA) four wrestling shows on tv each week (5 if you count superstars), and PPV's around twice a month. The current system is great and I wouldn't change it back to the territory system at all because WWE go all over the world with their shows (hopefully TNA will soon too) and anyone can go to a show to see their favorite superstars at a location near them at some point.

So.... when we lost the territory system, that wasn't the day wrestling died, it was just the day that oldschool wrestling died because things ended up being for the better in the long run. Wrestling itself is alive and well, doing better than ever, and soon to enter another boom if you ask me.
 
I am sorry, but the territories do exists today. Maybe not like they used to, but they are still around. The one that comes to mind is NWA.

NWA is a global name, with smaller territories all over the world. ROH, FIP, Chikara, PWG,etc. are all examples of territorial wrestling. everyone says WWE This and TNA that. They wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the NWA. Granted it changed from pure wrestling as a sport to sports-entertainment, but the territory system isn't dead. One of the originators NWa is still breathing.
 
allow me to set it straight...
-wrestling never died, it's been alive longer than any sport
-what you watch has always been a hybrid of wrestling/entertainment. all sports are entertainment, that's why we watch them.
-territorial wrestling has the ability to compete with independent companies from chikara, to tna, to wwe; it simply takes good business sense, and good talent.
-although wwe has a substantial advantage in capital, this is a free market society.
-PWI is still in publication, as well as other magazines covering new talent.
-there is more access now to info on these wrestlers today than in the good old days, try using the machine you used to complain on this forum to find out where and who these wrestlers are, then actually go see them wrestle.
-terms like KAYFABE, MARK, RUBE, etc. are JARGON and make you sound foolish... (It's aural perception is equivalent to you asking your doctor for a prescription "STAT" ... though it is proper terminology, you are not a doctor.) So if you're not in the pro wrestling industry, drop it.
-it sounds just as foolish for people in the industry to use these terms in front of fans, this includes FACE and HEEL, by the time the bell rings everyone knows who the crowd favorite is and that is the only thing relevant.
-the day the NWA's territorial wrestling "died" was the day shane douglas threw the title into the trash can and vacated it, it hasn't recovered since. i watched about 3 months worth of their TV shows last year and they were pathetic. the best in the world?!? laughable... and it's been 15 years... their only easement was the association with TNA. It still exists, just under poor management. , disagree? go to their website and try to find info on their wrestlers, promotions, etc.
-at the same time, any belt not willingly defended against someone outside your company cannot be claimed as the heavyweight championship of the world. if you want to be the best, take on all comers.
-TNA and WWE ARE INDEPENDENT COMPANIES, they only allow there wrestlers to compete within their own rosters, this makes them independent.
- organizations that are competing in alliances or associations are interdependent companies
- wwe,wwf,wwwf has been in competition with the nwa since 1963 - thus far vince is far ahead.
- if a company wants to keep their wrestlers all they have to do is have them sign long term contracts with the intent of improving their organization not letting them leave for a better offer.
- any company or organization with the premiere attraction in the industry will make the most money and will attract wrestling fans... right now that wrestler is john cena who took over for steve austin, i don't like it any more than you. but he is the most marketable asset in the industry, and has the widest fan base. and no one who is a wrestling fan can deny is heart for the business, which only makes him that much more legit.
-yes their are technical wrestlers that can and would truly defeat him in a match, but why take away the moneymaker, that's why vince is at the top, hell their were hundreds of wrestlers that could have defeated steve austin, but put a mic' in one hand and a cold beer in the other and he could hold thousands of fans for the night without ever lacing up his boots.
- the canvas of wrestling can be repainted overnight
 
WWE just drew a 3.9 and 4.0 and they are THRILLED. WITH Bret Hart's return. That's not great folks
TNA just drew a 1.5 with a billion so called "draw"s. That's not good folks.
Thats not what the main page says, it says WWE got 3.6. They wish they could of got a 3.9 or 4.0 if TNA wasnt on at the same time. And 1.5 was impressive and everyone knows it. Some people were thinking they would get 2.0, it was everyones prediction they would get 1.5 and they did. Next week they might get 1.6, who knows?
 
WWE just drew a 3.9 and 4.0 and they are THRILLED. WITH Bret Hart's return. That's not great folks.

It was actually a 3.6.

TNA just drew a 1.5 with a billion so called "draw"s. That's not good folks.

Not good? It is their highest rating ever I believe. Remember they don't have anywhere near the power that the WWE has, and isn't a name like the WWE, so drawing your highest rating every when going head to head with WWE Raw is pretty good going if you ask me.

I'm not a TNA fan at all, I like some of their wrestlers and I'm interested in some of their angles, but I rarely watch, if I do it's a rerun and it will be after reading the spoilers. Same goes for Smackdown. I watch Raw every week, live without fail though, and it airs 2am-4.15am, even if I have to be up early. I do that out of habit. As do many fans across the world. Wrestling will not die, it doesn't draw the numbers that it used to because times change, audiences grow up etc. There will be another wrestling boom, just not yet. It doesn't matter about territories dieing - They still exist, just not like they used to. I don't know exactly how they worked being born in 1989 but you have ROH, FCW, XPW, AAA(or whatever it's called) plus many more. Fact is though that they aren't big draws and people are only interested in WWE or TNA. WWE is such a big name these days and so easily accessable that alot of regular fans, as in fans who just watch at home won't even know that half of the current wrestling promotions exist. Times change, and with that what people want changes too. Remember, the 10's is a much different generation/era, call it what you will, to the 80's.

Like has been mentioned in here, kayfabe was alive back then, whereas now it isn't, which somewhat takes away the 'sport' aspect of it and makes it pure entertainment, and there are so many new things to entertain than there was back in the 80's, to say WWE/McMahon killed wrestling is a very short sighted and narrow minded view.
 
Some people were thinking they would get 2.0, it was everyones prediction they would get 1.5 and they did. Next week they might get 1.6, who knows?


I thought somewhere between 1.2 and 1.5 seeing as there was no MNF, and while that is a great number for TNA, they shouldn't get carried away. They didn't take a bite into the RAW rating as such in that RAW still draw well and got it's highest audience in a while. Take away Bret Hart and RAW will have still drawn 3.3+ and I think it's too early to say they may get a 1.6 next week. Their numbers dropped off while they were head to head with RAW and went back down towards what they usually draw, albeit slightly higher. Even a PPV quality match with Angle and Styles and the audience just disappeared. TNA may bump up to 1.2/1.3 max but that's it for now IMO. This isn't a thread about the ratings though so apologies.
 
Ya i miss the atittude era. but i will never hate wwe. look at tna, they r mocking wwe. VINCE never cared about them.
 
OK I have to agree with everything Jmaster said.
i have a few things about this whole "death" of wrestling.
Wrestling has not died, as a matter of fact it is as hot as ever. Now I know what you are going to say, that the product is stale, the matches suck, Cena sucks etc.....
Well Look at the main page of Wrestling forums, Look at all the threads, all the different things people are talking about. There are people who still love wrestling.
Next, the ratings mean jack shit. I am 34 years old, and when I first started to watch wrestling it was NWA/WCW on TBS on saturday nights only, and WWF Superstars on sat or sun morning on my local channel. In 1985 how many channels were there to offer. So those programs did a 1.0-2.0 every week. Then look at the late 90's both shows were doing over 5 every week (except against MNF then it was high 4's.) Although there was cable and Satalite the amount of channels to offer is no where close to what it is today.
No MATTER WHAT ratings will NEVER EVER reach high 4's on a weekly basis ever. As far as spike not all cable systems offer it so it CAN not achieve high 2's to 3 until that happens.

I have read many people say that there are no territiories well yes and no. J master is right there are many territories not in the old style though. There is NEwrestling here in New england. (which Mcmahon lets Lawlor and a few undercarders wrestle in.)There is one in GA and on in PA as far as i know.

And lastly if soooo many people say that wrestling is dead because of Cena HHH Hogan NASH Foley etc...then I have few questions for you.... Why do you watch? Why do you come on here and complain. The wresltling can't be that bad because you are all on here whining about it.
Yes Hornswagle is geting old and yes no one wants to see Hall wrestle. But you will get over it, just like we did Pre Attitude era. You will watch and thus McMahon, and Dixie Carter are winning. They are getting people to watch, and talk about it.

Personally I will continue to watch for as long as I can. No matter what is happening. And so will you.
So all and all Wresling is not dead and will not die as long as there are sites like this and fans like us.

PS> for those who dont like cena cause he does the same 5 moves every match.. didnt the following do the same, Austin(Lou Thez press, stunner stomping a mud hole elbows), Rock(peoples elbow, rock bottom), Flair(flop after getting punched, getting caught on the top rope, chops in the corner,knee drops figure 4), hogan(get pinned to 2.99999, hulking up, the finger wave, leg drop, big boot), Undertaker do 4-5 moves every match????
 
December 26, 1983

This to me was THE date that "professional wrestling" died. How did it die? By camel clutch. Who was the murderers? The Iron Sheik, Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan. And who were the victims? Professional wrestling as a whole.

The moment that Freddie Blassie famously yelled "pull on it, pull on it!" to the bewildered Iron Sheik as he applied his camel clutch to Bob Backlund, cemeted the very exact moment that (as they said in Back to the Future Pt. II) there was an alternate 1983. If you're not old enough to remember, or never youtubed the match itself, this is when then-WWF champion Bob Backlund lost the title to a less-than-deserving, but still overly humourous Iron Sheik. Now, not to knock the Sheik, he was a fantastic wrestler, BUT he was ONLY meant to be exactly what the WWWF/WWF had always wanted out of someone like him...A heel transitional champion.

So Backlund lost the title. IMO, he should have lost it years ago to someone like Ken Patera or Jimmy Snuka, but I wasn't booker. But the thing about The Iron Sheik winning it and thus killing pro wrestling was what happened even before he won.

Hulk Hogan was already in tag matches with Backlund before he lost. Most people didn't know he was being groomed as the new champ, they just assumed Backlund needed help. But once the Hogan train started running, it would never be stopped. Having The Iron Sheik win it meant that from that moment on, pro wrestling would NEVER be pro wrestling again, it would slowly become "sports entertainment", a phrase I have to wonder if Jerry Lawler wants to smack Michael Cole over every single time he hears it on Raw (that, and that damn "Vintage crap").

Sure, pro wrestling survived on life support for another month or so until January 24, but it was already brain dead. I need not get into Hulk's 1st title regin, the Rock 'N Wrestling Connection, Cindy Lauper, Wendi Ricther, Capt. Lou Albano, Roddy Piper, David Wolfe or anyone else who were the REAL reasons why the 1st WrestleMania ever came about (so for you history buffs, it was NOT Hulk Hogan, it was Cindy Lauper and Lou Albano!!!). Wrestling died when Hogan took the title because he took with it, the very last remants of what wrestling was "supposed" to mean. These effects are still being felt today, especially with that same Hogan parading around as if it's 1984 all over again and he just legdropped himself into history (for better or worse). To me, that was the day it died. Anyone agree?
 
I think when WCW and ECW went away. It took away the choice of what to watch. ECW would have been much better on spike than TNA is now. They had more interesting talent there is a reason why Vince hasnt snatched TNA's top 2 guys AJ,Daniels, and Samoa Joe and thats because he doesnt want them. Aj and Daniels are 2 guys that hit high spots in a match. They cannot do a segment to save there lives. Joe is like Goldberg after his streak was broken he isnt interesting. He cannot cut a promo and he is fat and sluggish in the ring. At least we know why Nash is so slow he is 50.


I think the day our choice got taken away was what killed it.
 

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