Dana White vs Pro Wrestling

[OldSchoolWrestlingFan]

The wrestling world is giving Dana White (president of UFC) hell for his recent comments where he called wrestling fake - he has stated several times (including during this recent tirade) he respects wrestlers, their athleticism/ability but calls it fake because matches/outcomes are predetermined and have very little to do with actual athletic ability & fighting prowess.

So my question is: Is he wrong?! Does he deserve this backlash?!

He never said that wrestlers weren't athletic, he never said that they didn't give their all or even get actual injuries - he is simply stating the truth that it is a choreographed performance with a predetermined outcome - so in all actually it is fake or make believe aka pretend.

Fake - : not true or real : meant to look real or genuine but not real or genuine, to pretend; simulate: anything made to appear otherwise than it actually is; counterfeit: (definition taken from several online dictionaries)

 

[Bernkastel]

I wouldn't say so. I mean wrestling promotions, not just the WWE, constantly go out of their way to remind fans and non fans how fake the product is by continuously revealing trade and insider secrets to the general public. Dana White is just echoing what the majority of people already know about the industry. If the WWE in particular should get offended, then they should have done a better job at protecting kayfabe. Now if he had said that pro wrestlers aren't athletes and the ring may as well be a giant Serta mattress that these guys are landing on, then that's cause for backlash. Of course White didn't say this, and of course has never said this.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Just waiting for the day that pro wrestling is accepted as a live action theatrical production that it really is instead of "fake". Dana is right of course, and there's really no need to get upset about his words. But he is being Captain Obvious.

We watch people come back from the dead, a corporate dictatorship where no one quits to work someplace else, and destruction of property where no one gets sued. Kayfabe isn't exactly alive and well.

 

[ABMorales787]

A fight promoter with heavy pro wrestling influences said stuff to rile up a fanbase. It seriously blows my mind how fans of pro wrestling and pro wrestlers themselves are failing to notice that ITS A WORK!

White said some shit to get some buzz and say why he's better than the competition. It's almost like he's...... A promoter or something. Fucking DUH.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The term "fake" has a negative connotation to it. It implies "not genuine" or "imitation", the way you'd label a watch you were lead to believe was a genuine Rolex that turned out not to be. When "fake" is applied to wrestling, it's being done so as a means to attack the legitimacy of the product. What Dana White is saying is "this is my product's logo on cheaper threads that I didn't sanction", to a degree.

The right term to be using here is scripted.

At the end of the day, or the end of the show, pro wrestling is simply adult-oriented story-telling that rides on a wave of visual athleticism. At it's core it's simply a visual depiction of "good guys" versus "bad guys" where eventually, the good guys usually prevail and justice is served. Much in the same way you would watch a Western movie knowing that by the end of it the cowboy is almost assuredly going to win, kiss the girl and ride off into the sunset after gunning down the bad guy. You certainly don't leave the theatre saying "You know, I respect Christian Bale for being able to act like a real cowboy, but 3:10 to Yuma was fake." This is why I detest the patronizing "you know it's fake, right?" question.

News flash, Dana — every form of entertainment is fake. The X-Men movies... you know Wolverine is fake, right? The Expendables... no one actually died. You know it's fake, right?

Odd, I'd imagine you never think twice about that sort of thing watching your favorite films, but hey, when you don't like something, why bite your tongue when you can use your bully pulpit to tell others why they shouldn't like it too?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Eh, Dana has a history of putting his foot in his mouth and saying stupid things. Its plays to both his popularity and his detractors..

Wrestling being fake didn't stop him from sky rocketing Lesnar to being one of the biggest stars ever though.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Now that I think about it, didn't that particular PPV have a Main Event that lasted a grand total of about 30 seconds- a big reason why wrestling became scripted in the first place?

 

[DualShock]

It's pathetic because he used it as an argument as a response why his PPVs are expensive. His response to the price of his PPVs is a response of a 14y old UFC mark, not of an adult, a promoter, a businessman
"Why are your PPVs more expensive than the PPVs of the other company?"
"Because the other company is fake shit TROLOLOL that's why".
Pathetic.

 

[Slash-LN]

I think too much got made of it.

Someone complained about the price of the pay per view. $39.99 I believe it was, saying the WWE pay per views are $9.99 because of the Network. Which is true, but aren't they still $49.99 without the Network? The person ignored that part but that's not the point of this topic.

Dana said something like "Because it's fake. Fake shit should be 9.99." The fan in question could have left it at that but responded with whatever response. Dana as a business man should have left it alone, but as a human who argues often didn't.

As IDR said, had Dana used the word "scripted" this would be a non-story.

And who cares how long the main event lasted? When you're paying to watch a Ronda Rousey fight you know there's a very high chance the fight is going to end in the first round.

Not like being scripted ever guarantees you a good main event, a good finish or even a long main event. A promoter could script a 3 minute main event if they wanted. It's bad business but you're still not guaranteed anything in scripted wrestling.

Plus the knockout was awesome. I'd rather take a quick knockout or submission over a three or five round fight that goes to the judges. Especially a one sided fight.

It's pathetic because he used it as an argument as a response why his PPVs are expensive. His response to the price of his PPVs is a response of a 14y old UFC mark, not of an adult, a promoter, a businessman
"Why are your PPVs more expensive than the PPVs of the other company?"
"Because the other company is fake shit TROLOLOL that's why".
Pathetic.

I agree somewhat with him though. Somewhat.

If you were to watch an mma contest that was scripted would you pay as much as one that you know isn't scripted?

Especially if you're a nerd that discuses it online and there's story lines that give good indications of who is going to win the bout anyway?

In that case it would make sense to pay 9.99 for that instead of 39.99 too.

 

[DualShock]

I agree somewhat with him though. Somewhat.

If you were to watch an mma contest that was scripted would you pay as much as one that you know isn't scripted?

Especially if you're a nerd that discuses it online and there's story lines that give good indications of who is going to win the bout anyway?

In that case it would make sense to pay 9.99 for that instead of 39.99 too.

I would pay for a wrestling show with guys like Hogan, Flair, Savage, Sting, Piper, Roberts, The Rock, Austin or Undertaker in their prime always, no matter how much it costs because I know I will be entertained. UFC is just like boxing a double-edged sword because you can have the biggest superstars involved the fight can end in seconds via KO or you can have a boring match that will end with someone winning on points. Unless it's a clusterfuck like Goldberg vs Lesnar, Sting vs Hardy or most of the "Cena wins LOL" moments you can almost always count that the wrestling matches can entertain you in a way no other fight can just because it's scripted.

Dana White is a hypocrite because there is a large amount of people who became fans just because of the entertainment factor of the UFC, the promos,the hype before the match, the presentation. Same goes with pro wrestling, most fans became wrestling fans not because of two half naked men pretending to hit each other in the nose, it's because of the promos,the hype before the match, the presentation.
If Dana White thinks people watch his UFC only because the fights are real then he should stop doing all the entertainment stuff he's doing and we will see how many people will order his PPVs.
He forgets that most people don't care how real or fake fights are, they want to be entertained and it doesn't matter if it's Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Chael Sonnen, Muhammad Ali, Stone Cold, Mike Tyson or even Rocky Balboa, if you are entertained you will watch a fight no matter if it's real, fake or a movie and forget if they fight for real or pretend to hurt each other you want just see the one guy kicking the ass of the other guy

 

[Slash-LN]

I would pay for a wrestling show with guys like Hogan, Flair, Savage, Sting, Piper, Roberts, The Rock, Austin or Undertaker in their prime always, no matter how much it costs because I know I will be entertained. UFC is just like boxing a double-edged sword because you can have the biggest superstars involved the fight can end in seconds via KO or you can have a boring match that will end with someone winning on points. Unless it's a clusterfuck like Goldberg vs Lesnar, Sting vs Hardy or most of the "Cena wins LOL" moments you can almost always count that the wrestling matches can entertain you in a way no other fight can just because it's scripted.

Dana White is a hypocrite because there is a large amount of people who became fans just because of the entertainment factor of the UFC, the promos,the hype before the match, the presentation. Same goes with pro wrestling, most fans became wrestling fans not because of two half naked men pretending to hit each other in the nose, it's because of the promos,the hype before the match, the presentation.
If Dana White thinks people watch his UFC only because the fights are real then he should stop doing all the entertainment stuff he's doing and we will see how many people will order his PPVs.
He forgets that most people don't care how real or fake fights are, they want to be entertained and it doesn't matter if it's Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Chael Sonnen, Muhammad Ali, Stone Cold, Mike Tyson or even Rocky Balboa, if you are entertained you will watch a fight no matter if it's real, fake or a movie and forget if they fight for real or pretend to hurt each other you want just see the one guy kicking the ass of the other guy

How is he a hypocrite exactly? He didn't once knock the entertainment aspect.

He said something that is scripted shouldn't cost as much as something that isn't.

Who watches mma just for the entertainment part? That may make them more invested in the fights but watching just for that part? You still have to have an interest in the sport to watch it.

Pro wrestling is all entertainment. Even during the matches they do things to work the crowd. Sure in mma a fighter may taunt another fighter but it's usually to get inside their head. It isn't usually to amuse the crowd.

UFC itself had a decent following on its own before that stuff was ever part of it anyway. Once they changed the rules and attracted bigger sponsors they had to evolve. Just like pro wrestling did.

Look at the beginnings of pro wrestling compared to what we have now.


Wrestling is meant to be pure entertainment. MMA is meant to be sport. By your logic we should take all forms of entertainment out of all sports and see how they do. Let's not have player entrances, let's not have interviews, let's not have commentary. Just have players go on their respective fields, courts, ice and play the game and leave. Let's see how all those sports do without it.

I'm sure Dana clearly understands the entertainment aspect adds a level of interest to the events. As it has a stronger fan base now than it did before. But it's different fan base largely but when it was just the tournaments people were still paying for it.

And you name all those wrestlers in their primes but people are going to pay to see Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell, Ken Shamrock, George St. Pierre, Tito Ortiz and plenty more in their prime as well because they know they are going to be entertained.

And it's not like he said WWE should give everything away for free. Just that it should be cheaper. I don't really see much of a problem with that.

Is it kind of a cocky thing to say? Sure. But it's not really a bad thing to say.

People were more mad at the word fake being used than they were about him thinking UFC pay per views should be more expensive.

 

[rmp0012002]

I know Dana was just spewing as a promoter but considering his pride and joy Rhonda did a "fake" skit at WM I think he should have avoided the comment.

 

[Messiah]

Everything about wrestling is fake. Sure injuries happen but that's normal. It's still fake.. People shouldn't take it so personally, it's just the context that pisses people off. Don't act like people are stupid for watching a fake show, when these movies are producing millions and millions of dollars are also fake... They're there to entertain, and the only competition in wrestling is for their spot on television.

 

[lowandmighty]

I think people are mainly pissed off because he isn't saying anything pretty much everyone doesn't already know.

There is a small bit of hypocrisy in it too, since UFC is well known to go for popular fighters over the ones with the best ability.

 

[John McCass]

First of all, he has the answer in his pocket: CM Punk.

Then, we need to know what the definition of "fake" in his words. Why do people get offended when they are told wrestling is fake is beyond me. Wrestling is indeed fake. Saying it's fake doesn't mean that the wrestlers are doing fake things in the ring. The drama created and the results are all fake. What's real is just the in-ring action. "Wrestling is real, but scripted" some people say. So, what that exactly is? Fake means something that is not indeed what you're being shown. And pro-wrestling is not real that means we are seeing "fake" things, isn't it?

 

[Slash-LN]

First of all, he has the answer in his pocket: CM Punk.

Then, we need to know what the definition of "fake" in his words. Why do people get offended when they are told wrestling is fake is beyond me. Wrestling is indeed fake. Saying it's fake doesn't mean that the wrestlers are doing fake things in the ring. The drama created and the results are all fake. What's real is just the in-ring action. "Wrestling is real, but scripted" some people say. So, what that exactly is? Fake means something that is not indeed what you're being shown. And pro-wrestling is not real that means we are seeing "fake" things, isn't it?

He did say he's not saying they aren't athletic or anything like that.

His whole thing on the fake is that it's predetermined.

Honestly this whole thing is about the "f" word.

That's all it really boils down to. His choice of wording. Had he used different wording such as "scripted" then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The whole "it isn't fake, it's scripted" thing basically means that while the outcomes are predetermined the wrestlers are still athletes and there is still real danger when they put on matches. Which is true.

 

[DualShock]

How is he a hypocrite exactly? He didn't once knock the entertainment aspect.

He said something that is scripted shouldn't cost as much as something that isn't.

Who watches mma just for the entertainment part? That may make them more invested in the fights but watching just for that part? You still have to have an interest in the sport to watch it.

Pro wrestling is all entertainment. Even during the matches they do things to work the crowd. Sure in mma a fighter may taunt another fighter but it's usually to get inside their head. It isn't usually to amuse the crowd.

UFC itself had a decent following on its own before that stuff was ever part of it anyway. Once they changed the rules and attracted bigger sponsors they had to evolve. Just like pro wrestling did.

Look at the beginnings of pro wrestling compared to what we have now.


Wrestling is meant to be pure entertainment. MMA is meant to be sport. By your logic we should take all forms of entertainment out of all sports and see how they do. Let's not have player entrances, let's not have interviews, let's not have commentary. Just have players go on their respective fields, courts, ice and play the game and leave. Let's see how all those sports do without it.

I'm sure Dana clearly understands the entertainment aspect adds a level of interest to the events. As it has a stronger fan base now than it did before. But it's different fan base largely but when it was just the tournaments people were still paying for it.

And you name all those wrestlers in their primes but people are going to pay to see Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell, Ken Shamrock, George St. Pierre, Tito Ortiz and plenty more in their prime as well because they know they are going to be entertained.

And it's not like he said WWE should give everything away for free. Just that it should be cheaper. I don't really see much of a problem with that.

Is it kind of a cocky thing to say? Sure. But it's not really a bad thing to say.

People were more mad at the word fake being used than they were about him thinking UFC pay per views should be more expensive.

He is a hypocrite because he knows very well that the price difference between an UFC PPV and a WWE PPV is not just because the fights are real or fake. He knows very well that his UFC PPVs without all the entertainment aspect (mostly copying the WWE entertainment style) wouldn't be worth even the WWE price of 9.99$ so he should stop pretending like his shows should cost 5x more because it isn't "fake shit" when we all know that both companies, WWE and UFC are on top because of the style, entertainment, hype and a great marketing because how many pro wrestling and MMA promotions are outthere who aren't even worth 5$ no matter if it's fake or a real fight

 

[enviousdominous]

Someone complained about the price of the pay per view. $39.99 I believe it was, saying the WWE pay per views are $9.99 because of the Network. Which is true, but aren't they still $49.99 without the Network? The person ignored that part but that's not the point of this topic.

So there's this thing called Twitter, where famous people have a direct social link to a world of shitheads that want nothing more than to get a confused reaction from those famous people.

User @RKORollins tweeted:

"I wish I could watch the Rousey fight tmrw night. Vince got you beat there @danawhite. Our PPV's are only $9.99. "

So yeah, not exactly a complaint or a valid statement for that matter. More like some random douche who wanted to publish a scathing statement that he didn't put a whole lot of focus into, or rather the majority of the shit that you'll find if you waste thirty seconds of your life on Twitter. I don't know why he said "Our", it's not like this tard owns WWE stock or anything.

In seeing that yet another WWE fanboy was trying to troll him with faulty logic, Dana White responded with:

"@RKORollins I hear u bro but fake shit should be 9.99"

Zero points for class and grammar, and I'm not really sure if Dana was acting like a fucking idiot or if he was trying to exemplify a comparable level of maturity.

I believe that the price of $9.99 (with a six month commitment) is possible due to having a massive and loyal fanbase while providing thousands of hours of content that made my generation fall in love with pro-wrestling. Giving away month after month for free reeks of desperation, but I personally am a very happy WWE Network Subscriber. I doubt that the WWE decided on the price based on how a scripted product must devalue the potency of the entertainment.

To call pro-wrestling "fake" is forgivable, if the context of the statement involves a politely stated personal belief. Someone might think pro-wrestling is fake because that's their right to assume as much. To say that pro-wrestling is "fake shit" that by virtue of that assumption must not possibly be able to cost a penny more than $9.99, shows that Dana White learned everything he knows about social etiquette from Twitter.

Dana White probably chuckled as he read statements of angst from (what I could find) Taz and Sid. They were absolutely justified in their anger, but at the same time; it's fucking Twitter. You have people with swastika avatars posting in all caps that the confederate flag isn't about racism on Twitter, you have men who are against Planned Parenthood posting rape threats to men who disagree with them on Twitter, you have Donald Trump dogging out every human being that would dare politely ask him for an explanation for his insane promises on Twitter. Twitter, it's where you go to be a full blown hypocritical sadistic ****** without fear of reprisal for your horrifying level of disassociation.

I care as much about Dana white calling pro-wrestling "fake shit" as I do about the breakfast that a million jackasses just posted on Instagram. Que sera motherfucking sera.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Dana White is just echoing what the majority of people already know about the industry.

Yes he is, and you have to wonder why he's harping on a point that's so obvious to so many. Is he looking to discredit pro wrestling because they are competition for his product.....or is he looking to send some negative publicity their way on the theory that any kind of publicity is good publicity? Is he trying to hurt WWE....or help them?

If you see it that way, you might consider that the reason Brock Lesnar was such a huge attraction for White was because of his fame in pro wrestling, right? People weren't interested in seeing Brock fight 'for real' because of his attempt at making the NFL, were they?

Presumably, Dana White had every hope Brock would be coming back to him after finishing his WWE contract at WM31. Given the interest Brock created in UFC, White must have been hugely disappointed to have the guy re-sign with the wrestlers. So, Dana is probably bitter. Tough rocks, guy.

Still, if the best the guy can do is let everyone know what we already knew about pro wrestling, his arsenal of publicity weapons is kind of weak.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

First of all, he has the answer in his pocket: CM Punk.

Then, we need to know what the definition of "fake" in his words. Why do people get offended when they are told wrestling is fake is beyond me. Wrestling is indeed fake. Saying it's fake doesn't mean that the wrestlers are doing fake things in the ring. The drama created and the results are all fake. What's real is just the in-ring action. "Wrestling is real, but scripted" some people say. So, what that exactly is? Fake means something that is not indeed what you're being shown. And pro-wrestling is not real that means we are seeing "fake" things, isn't it?

Because the term "fake" has a negative connotation to it. Because it implies "not genuine" or "imitation". "Fake" is the kind of term you use to describe the Rolex watch you just bought that turned out to not actually be a Rolex. "Scripted" is the kind of term you use when you are describing pro-wrestling.

Because wrestling is real. It actually exists in exactly the form it's supposed to exist in. But the results are pre-determined, ergo it's scripted, not "fake".

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

NOOOOO!!!!!!! Wrestling is fake!? WHAT!?!?!??!?!??!?

Seriously though everyone (or at least everyone should) know that pro wrestling is pre-determined.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Wait a second ... Wrestling is fake ? You mean it really doesn't take 45 to 50 grown men to hold off two big men in Lesnar and Undertaker ? Taker being 60 years old too.
These guys can get in fights that last exactly four hours and it fits in the time perfectly for all the matches at a PPV ?

Guys know exactly when their music is going to go off when they show up unexpectedly ? I admire what Dana White and his partner _________ _________ did for the sport of UFC. They changed the cock fighting cage match brutality into a main stream , respectable sport that it is today. UFC burrows heavily off WWE character promoting ideas and that's why you can right now name at least 5 UFC fighters right off the top of your head but can't think of two active heavyweight contenders for the boxing championship.

Dana White does act like a ******** now and then though. As a president of a company, Dana should be presenting himself in a more professional manner. Sometimes the guy goes off like a rampaging redneck at a NASCAR rally or a pissed off teenage fan who didn't get enough allowence from his mom to buy a suit for press conferences.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Dana is just mad that he didn't sell out the Superdome.

The UFC is still a pretty niche sport. Pro Wrestling is more broad sweeping because it has wider appeal. Which is why the UFC takes a lot of WWE ideas to get an emotional investment in fighters.

Dana lives and dies with his fighters. If Ronda Rousey were to quit, his business would suffer greatly. Pro wrestling has a much more diverse platform for success. It's apples and oranges.