Could the UFL ever become a real threat to the NFL?

[Megatron]

Last year, the United Football League opened up play in it's inaugural season, with it consisting of 4 teams with 6 games each, and the Championship game concluding on the day after Thanksgiving. So far throughout the leagues 1 1/2 years of existence, it's been primarily dominated by players who were unable to 'cut it' in the NFL or were deemed to old to play in the NFL anymore. Case in point, Brooks Bollinger, a guy who had 10 career starts in 6 years between the Jets, Vikings, and Cowboys, was named the leagues MVP.

However, with the NFL's labor problems being loudly known, and with there being a strong possibility of there not being ANY NFL Season next year, I had a question that I thought should be asked:

Do you think that the UFL has any shot of becoming a REAL threat to the NFL?

I don't mean that people will watch it if nothings on. I mean that the UFL would steal fans and some big name players from the NFL; how the AFL was to the NFL in the 1960's.

{Note: After this, it's quite a lot of rambling by me. So, if you don't want a little more insight on the league, just skip right down to the comments.}

I mean, let's face it, people will watch football, no matter who's playing or even if they have no rooting interest. And if the NFL loses the entire 2011 season, that would be a GREAT opportunity for the UFL to at least steal some fans/players and make some headlines. Currently, it's viewed as nothing more then a developmental territory for NFL players, even though they've said that they're independent from the NFL.

The guys running this league are quite smart and are quickly learning from their mistakes. Last year they had 2 teams in markets that already had NFL teams - New York and San Francisco - and quickly realized that, due to low attendence (likely b/c of the NFL presence), the teams should locate to places where there weren't already football teams - Connecticut and Sacramento. The Hartford team already has achieved 70% of the attendance total that they reached last year playing in New York - and that was off just 1 game. Sacramento also did well in it's first game, filling up over 95% of the stadiums capacity.

The Omaha Nighthawks also did GREAT in their home opener, also filling up well over 95% of their capacity. Yes, it was only one game, but it was still big numbers and promising for the league.

Obviously the UFL wasn't gonna take the world by storm overnight, but, last week, I actually saw some UFL highlights between Omaha and Hartford on ESPN. It may have been due to the fact that Jeff Garcia, even at the age of 40, lead the team to a game winning TD in the last seconds, but I digress. While it was one little highlight, I think it was a big step for the League that is really trying to make a name for themselves.

They have the right approach - start of small, and go to markets that don't have a significant NFL presence nearby. It's not surprising that Omaha drew great numbers in their opener - Nebraska has the Cornhuskers, and that's all for football. Hartford, the same. Sacramento - yet the same. Granted, Florida's opening game drew >10,000 in the Citrus Bowl. Las Vegas, the highest drawing team last year, didn't do great in it's opener either, but there will be some progress down the line.

Not only are some of their teams drawing quite well early, but they're sticking with their theory and will have a team in Virginia starting next season - yet another state without a NFL representative. Other possible places for expansion include San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Portland, Austin, Raleigh, Honolulu, and Los Angeles, who, like others I've mentioned, don't have an NFL representative nearby (aside from Raleigh with the Panthers, but they're in Charlotte; LA is near Oakland and SF as well, but don't have a team directly in the city).

The players aren't what you would call big namers - with a 40 year old Garcia and Daunte Culpepper arguably being their biggest stars - but I think, if they could, somehow, get any current NFL players to jump over to the UFL if the NFL strikes next year, it would be big news. Obviously Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or any of the other faces of the league aren't gonna jump, but someone who's in the middle tier could and become the face the League.

Now, I'm not saying that the UFL could overtake the NFL in terms of popularity even with a strike next year, but, let's say the leauge has a year long strike and all of the UFL teams attendance's go up, along with their level of play, is there ANY chance that they could become an actual threat to the NFL within the next 5-10 years? Do you think, that if a strike were to happen, any decent named players would jump to the UFL, even if it's only for a season or two? The league looks like it's headed in the right direction. Is there a possibility of a two team league working in America?

 

[Big Sexy]

The UFL has absolutely zero chance of ever becoming a threat to the NFL. People keep talking about the potential lockout but I highly doubt the most popular professional sport will take that route. An agreement will almost definitely be reached. Even if there was a lockout it'd be for one season at the absolute max and that would not be enough for the UFL to take over anything.

Secondly, the UFL themselves doesn't even believe they are any competition. They are just striving to be like a minor league system for the NFL, similar to what NFL Europe used to be. Football is really the only sport without some kind of minor league system and the UFL saw the potential to become that.

The NFL is just way too popular and powerful at this point. The USFL tried to compete in the 80's and they could only last from 1983-1987. Now the NFL is stronger then ever. Once again there is zero chance the UFL takes over/competes with the NFL. Not now, not in 10 years, not in 20 years, never.

 

[Davi323]

Yeah, I will second the opinion that the UFL will be similar to NFL Europe...best case scenario, assuming they survive long enough to get that far.

They don't have the financial resources to lure anyone away from the NFL who is still valuable. The NFL minimum salary is somewhere around 440,000. That's for the scrubs. The UFL can't touch that. Their pool of players will be undrafted free agents who couldn't find an NFL team, and NFL veterans who get cut, and not picked up. They will always get the NFL leftovers.

Do not confuse the UFL with the USFL. The NFL is king, UFL is like the court jester.

 

[Buffalo Dave]

The only way I could ever see the UFL causing any sort of threat to the NFL is if a couple billionaires came along, invested in the teams, and lured a few big names from the NFL with ridiculous contracts, or somehow talked potential breakout stars not to go to the draft and sign with the UFL. Pretty much what the European basketball leagues and the KHL does now.

If by some chance the NFL strikes next year, I don't see a lot of older veterans playing for the UFL, I would say it would more or less be the second and third year guys playing, the ones who need to show something. I wonder if the NFL does strike will the UFL actually lengthen their season?

 

[People's Champ]

Hard to be a threat when you don't even see yourself that way. They look at themselves and want to be the minor leagues to the NFL. And I think that would be just fine. I watched that Omaha game and that was exciting but it could never beat out the NFL. The NFL is a machine that, even with a work stoppage, would never lose their spot. I think the UFL can continue to build and get bigger, but will never take over the NFL. As long as they don't try, they have a chance at success.

 

[duxrunuhmux]

Obviously nobody here has any familiarity with UFL. It is not a minor league to the NFL. It doesn't want to be either and they've stated it repeatedly. They are an alternative league. There is an abundance of great football talent that for one reason or another didn't find a spot on an NFL roster. There are others who get ill-timed injuries or become salary cap victims. This country has tons of great players. Before, if they fell through the many cracks in the NFL, they had to go to Canada or Arena Football. Both of which are completely different kinds of football that require different types of players. So an NFL prototype player could either sit by the phone or go prove himself against the highest non-NFL talent there is. So they have better talent than any other new league that has ever started along with the old AFL. I really like their model. All the diva egos get checked at the door. Fans can go see a game for $15-$30. And you can watch on Versus, HDNet, NESN or streaming online for free.

The NFL long ago forgot about the average fan. I drew the line when the Sunday Ticket Superfan went to $400 with no affordable web options like every other pro league offers. I took my wife and 2 kids to a game in Phoenix and in KC. Each event cost as much as an entire vacation without an NFL game. By comparison, I just took my family to see a Las Vegas Locos game and the entire evening cost less than $200 and I bought 2 shirts at the game. I don't know if UFL will be around in 5 years. But they are gaining attendance with virtually no marketing or media coverage. And the reason is that it's 80% of the NFL talent for 20% of the price. I've been a season ticket holder in 2 NFL cities. The perks that came with my UFL season tickets blew away anything I ever got from NFL. And my son has already gotten to meet, get photos & autographs with Jeff Garcia, Ahman Green, Tim Rattay, Ed Hartwell, Dominick Rhodes, Cato June. And we're only 1/2 way through the season. Daunte Culpepper is still coming to town. It really is a fantastic league. If the NFL locks out a whole year, people will see that this league is a much more fan friendly league. And considering they're striving to be just a top quality alternative league that players want to play in and fans can see inexpensively, then success is reachable.

But they must stay alternative to remain relevant. The minute it's an NFL minor league, it's done. It is NOT that right now.

 

[Big Sexy]

Obviously nobody here has any familiarity with UFL. It is not a minor league to the NFL. It doesn't want to be either and they've stated it repeatedly. They are an alternative league.

Actually just last March the UFL was trying to get the NFL to invest in the league and buy a 30% stake. They are obviously a separate league right now but there have been talks in the past about it becoming an NFL minor league.

So they have better talent than any other new league that has ever started along with the old AFL.

The USFL back in the 80's had better talent then the current UFL and the old NFL Europe was on par with the talent the UFL has.

Fans can go see a game for $15-$30. And you can watch on Versus, HDNet, NESN or streaming online for free.

Obviously they're cheap. That's the only way people will go to there games.

The NFL long ago forgot about the average fan. I drew the line when the Sunday Ticket Superfan went to $400 with no affordable web options like every other pro league offers. I took my wife and 2 kids to a game in Phoenix and in KC. Each event cost as much as an entire vacation without an NFL game. By comparison, I just took my family to see a Las Vegas Locos game and the entire evening cost less than $200 and I bought 2 shirts at the game. I don't know if UFL will be around in 5 years. But they are gaining attendance with virtually no marketing or media coverage.

Trust me, if the UFL could sell their games, tickets, and merchandise for the same price the NFL does then they would do it in a heart beat.

And the reason is that it's 80% of the NFL talent for 20% of the price.

I'm sorry but the UFL is just guys that couldn't make or aren't wanted on NFL rosters. Of course there are a few choice guys in the UFL that are better then some players in the NFL but for the most part the NFL talent absolutely shits on the UFL's talent. If you put the Buffalo Bills against the best team in the UFL then it would be a double digit win for the Bills. Brooks Bollinger was the UFL MVP last year and he can't make an NFL roster.

Jeff Garcia, Ahman Green, Tim Rattay, Ed Hartwell, Dominick Rhodes, Cato June. And we're only 1/2 way through the season. Daunte Culpepper is still coming to town.

I understand the nostalgia factor but those guys are all out of their prime and the majority of them are in the UFL because they can't contribute much to NFL teams anymore. Jeff Garcia could still start for some NFL teams but those other guys are back ups at best at this point and they were replaced by younger guys with much more upside.

But they must stay alternative to remain relevant. The minute it's an NFL minor league, it's done. It is NOT that right now.

The UFL will NEVER compete with the NFL. The only chance they have to survive long term is to form a partnership with the NFL.

 

[duxrunuhmux]

You're wrong on basically everything you claim. USFL talent was watered down because they started with too many teams. There was a big gap between their stars and the rest of the rosters. UFL talent across the board is better than USFL. No question. Even the people who were involved in both see that.

The UFL never tried to get the NFL to buy 30%. Ludicrous claim. Show me one shred of evidence that UFL tried to get NFL money to be a minor league. It doesn't exist. Read up a little.

The UFL is in year 2. Nobody is claiming UFL teams could beat NFL teams. But Las Vegas could hang with the lower tier NFL teams much closer than they should be able to for a 2nd year team in a 2nd year league. Jim Fassel even testifies to that. I think I'd believe a Super Bowl head coach's take over yours. It's a killer value and the talent and level of football is near NFL quality. Obviously it's not completely equal.

The fact is these guys are under contract and not being sent down from NFL teams. It's not a minor league just because you consider it one. You obviously make this stuff up as you go anyway.

Btw, the UFL isn't trying to compete with NFL. That isn't possible. But it is in no way a minor league to NFL. Show me evidence of one person in UFL or NFL claiming they have that relationship. You won't find that either.

But you obviously have never been to a UFL game and can't look objectively. Hence the made up claims. I'll check back later for your evidence. Good luck.

 

[Stormtrooper]

You're wrong on basically everything you claim. USFL talent was watered down because they started with too many teams. There was a big gap between their stars and the rest of the rosters. UFL talent across the board is better than USFL. No question. Even the people who were involved in both see that.

This is the saddest thing I've ever read in the Sports Stadium. Have you ever heard of Reggie White? How about Hershel Walker? Jim Kelly? Steve Young? The key difference between the UFL and the USFL is that no big-time college football player worth anything is going to choose the UFL over the NFL, while they did for the USFL.

The UFL is in year 2. Nobody is claiming UFL teams could beat NFL teams. But Las Vegas could hang with the lower tier NFL teams much closer than they should be able to for a 2nd year team in a 2nd year league. Jim Fassel even testifies to that. I think I'd believe a Super Bowl head coach's take over yours. It's a killer value and the talent and level of football is near NFL quality. Obviously it's not completely equal.

No, I'd believe a non-bias outside observer over the COACH OF THE UFL TEAM IN QUESTION. Of course Fassel would say that. He's 100% wrong, but he can't say that his team would lose to another team, it would demoralize his squad.

The fact is these guys are under contract and not being sent down from NFL teams. It's not a minor league just because you consider it one. You obviously make this stuff up as you go anyway.

Btw, the UFL isn't trying to compete with NFL. That isn't possible. But it is in no way a minor league to NFL. Show me evidence of one person in UFL or NFL claiming they have that relationship. You won't find that either.

No, it's not an officially designated Minor league, like the International League/Pacific Coast League (AAA Baseball), or the NBDL. It's more like an independent league, except a national one. However, Independent leagues are basically unofficial Minor Leagues, in that the most promising guys get snatched up as soon as they are noticed by a major league team.

But you obviously have never been to a UFL game and can't look objectively. Hence the made up claims. I'll check back later for your evidence. Good luck.

And your being an obviously blind UFL mark are just as unobjective. Next time you go to a UFL game, go up to one of the top players (should be possible, since it's not like they have humongous crowds), and ask him if he would rather be in the UFL or the NFL. I would bet every single one of them would rather be in the NFL, even if it meant a lesser role.

Now I'll sit back and wait for more of your blind markdom, it's actually humorous how sad and pathetic it is.

 

[Big Sexy]

You're wrong on basically everything you claim. USFL talent was watered down because they started with too many teams. There was a big gap between their stars and the rest of the rosters. UFL talent across the board is better than USFL. No question. Even the people who were involved in both see that.

Trooper already ripped you a new asshole but I will continue the trend. The USFL had 4 NFL hall of fame players that once played in the league and overall there were hundreds of players in the USFL that spent time on NFL rosters. Here's a list of them all.

http://www.oursportscentral.com/usfl/nflplayers.htm

The UFL also hasn't attracted elite college players away from the NFL like the USFL did.

The UFL never tried to get the NFL to buy 30%. Ludicrous claim. Show me one shred of evidence that UFL tried to get NFL money to be a minor league. It doesn't exist. Read up a little.

I read just fine. Here's some more reading for you to do.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/19/report-ufl-wants-nfl-to-invest/

The UFL is in year 2. Nobody is claiming UFL teams could beat NFL teams. But Las Vegas could hang with the lower tier NFL teams much closer than they should be able to for a 2nd year team in a 2nd year league. Jim Fassel even testifies to that. I think I'd believe a Super Bowl head coach's take over yours. It's a killer value and the talent and level of football is near NFL quality. Obviously it's not completely equal.

It is no where near NFL quality. If these were all NFL quality players then most of them would be in the NFL. And of course Jim Fassel is going to defend the league, he is a coach in it.

The fact is these guys are under contract and not being sent down from NFL teams. It's not a minor league just because you consider it one. You obviously make this stuff up as you go anyway.

When did I say it was a minor league? Please fucking show me. I said that's what it seems they are striving to be like and that's what could possibly end up happening. In fact I made it clear in my last post that they are obviously separate right now. This whole reading thing must have gone way over your head back in 1st grade.

Btw, the UFL isn't trying to compete with NFL. That isn't possible. But it is in no way a minor league to NFL. Show me evidence of one person in UFL or NFL claiming they have that relationship. You won't find that either.

More rambling about shit I didn't say. Good stuff.

But you obviously have never been to a UFL game and can't look objectively. Hence the made up claims. I'll check back later for your evidence. Good luck.

I made up nothing. You put words in my mouth. The things that I did say I have provided evidence for.

 

[Davi323]

is it me or can a lot of the same arguments be made about WWE vs TNA???

anyway, there is no doubt in my mind that the UFL is clearly an inferior league. As someone old enough to have lived through the USFL, I will go one step further...not only would the Buffalo Bills win against the best UFL team by double digits, But most of the USFL teams would be capable of it too.Shit, go ahead and add the CFL to that too. I am not anti-UFL per say, in that I think they should close up shop, I have watched a few games and have been amused. I wish them the best of luck in trying to do what they are trying to do. However, the fanboy here clearly doesn't know shit from shinola. The UFL, under no circumstances whatsoever, could be a legit alternative to the NFL. It is a diversion, something to watch when "real" football isn't on...a side show attraction. Cheap? Certainly. But, they have to be cheap to draw any fans in. If they could charge what the NFL does, they would. But then again, the NFL can expect 100 million Americans, plus millions more globally to watch their championship. Sports is a business. Owners are there to make money, not just to own a team.

Look, in Michigan, we have an alternative pop company (that's soda to all non-Michiganders) called Faygo. Its certainly available in other states now too, but it was originally a Michigan product...anyway, I can go down to the gas station on my way to work, and pick up a 24oz bottle of Faygo cola for 89 cents, plus deposit. The 20oz bottle of Coca Cola is going to cost me 1.59. I can get more of the Faygo for significantly less than I can get Coke for. I can buy a Faygo for both me and my girlfriend for only a little more than I can buy a single Coke for. There is your UFL is cheaper argument...However...is Coca Cola threatened by Faygo in any way whatsoever? Of course not. Why? Because people will pay the 1.59 for Coke, but wouldn't pay the same 1.59 for the same amount of Faygo. It simply doesn't taste as good. I will buy Faygo when I don't have enough loose change to get the Coke, but if I have the coin, I will get a Coke...it simply tastes better.

Similarly, if I lived in a UFL town, I might go buy tickets to watch them. I occasionally go see the local minor league teams in the Grand Rapids, Mi area live just for fun too. That doesn't mean that they are as good as the Detroit teams that I root for, or that I think they will overtake their parent leagues because of cost. The UFL will never, ever be as big as the NFL, it will never overtake the NFL in popularity, it will never lure college players away from the NFL draft. As long as people who watch the UFL understand this, and can accept it at it's intellectual value, they will be much better off. But, as long as we get idiots playing the fanboy role like duxrunuhmux, without any sense of realistic expectations, the floodgates of mockery remain open.

Dux, I am gonna make an assumption...I am going to assume that you are 20 years old or younger, whose only real experience with an alternative football league was one run by Vince McMahon, someone who barely remembers NFL Europe, doesn't remember the WLAF at all, and has never watched the USFL on E$PN Classic. I am going to guess that you don't actually know how bad the UFL currently is by comparison. Watch some CFL on the NFL Network on Friday nights some time if you want to see some good non-NFL professional football. It's a little different that what you might be used to, but it can be a hell of a lot of fun to watch. If the UFL is your only non-NFL pro football experience, you need to branch out more, because currently the UFL is shit.