Coalition (Britain, France, and America) Attack Libya

[SavageTaker]

I'm kind of surprised someone didn't already make a thread on this. Anyways, the U.N. Voted to have a no-fly zone and the British, French, and Americans have started attacking Ghadafi's forces and rightfully so.

Ghadafi is crazy and I hope for the Libyan people that this is over as soon as possible and he steps down. He has already attacked many civilians in his own country and he is clearly not in the right state of mind to have control over any country. So I think it was right for all of three of those nations to finally step in and put an end to Ghadafi's rule. Hopefully he steps down as the ruler of Libya and things don't have to escalate from beyond the point they are in now.

What do you guys think about the whole situation over in Lybia?

 

[El Rev sXe]

This whole thing is fucked up. I mean everything that Ghadafi has done is beyond wrong. But I think is really important, we as the people, ask "why now?" I mean if the guy has been a fucking dictator almost like Fidel, well then, why now after 40 years being in the goverment, the US says "his time is up"? I'm sorry but I find it a little suspicious...

Anyway, Ghadafi was right in one thing, the only way he is going to leave his position is being dead and that is exactly what the "Coalition" will do. It is horrible to think what is going on there right now, but I just can't stop thinking what would be the aftermath. The fall of Ghadafi is imminent but after that will the troops go home? I higly doubt it, it wouldn't surprised me at all if the three countrys take advantage after this situation is done and keep Lybia's oil refining. After all it wouldn't be the first time...

My only hope right now much blood isn0t spilled.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

I think it's about fuckin time we're involved. Look, we don't always have to involve ourselves in a country we have no business in but we're supposed to be a democracy (which is another thread entirely) we need to atleast spread it where it's emerging. I mean c'mon, how long would it take for a coalition of troops to walk into the capital put a gun to Gadaffi's head? We did this with Saddam but that's because a coupla buildings blew up. But when there's a revolution its not our business? Please...

In my opinion we need aggresive expansion, we need to fund the rebellions and start making constitutions and if an oil discount comes out of that, that's fine. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but since everyone is stupid enough to solve a capitalistic problem...with capitalism, I suppose a military industrial machine is the only option.

Anyway, if we put enough effort, Gadaffi's got like a month left.

 

[Minnesota Connection]

Why is now a great time to help the rebels in Libya?

Because never before in the last 40 years has there been this great instability in the region as there is now. Almost all North African countries have had protests beyond what we would of imagined only a year ago.

Libya has how much oil? How dependent are we on this? How much oil does the U.S get from Libya? Not as much as we could and thats the line threw the sand right there.

While I do not support Ghadifi...At all... But I do not think this is the right approach. How many wars? How much money into our military? Do we seriously need to discuss how much debt the U.S. is in before we attack another country?

"Sorry to the people of the world, the U.S. is not a charity. I do not make enough money to pay the taxes that are required to look after the world. Sorry for your unfortunate circumstances, I hope everything turns out, Alright. Please, do not beg us to waste any more of our money on you. We have our own problems....

Signed, Concerned U.S. Taxpayer."

 

[Xemmy]

The United Nations gave him every opportunity in the world to step down from power peacefully, and this guy said something along the lines of "Western Powers will regret this" or something of that nature. This guy seems to have it in his head that he can take this Coalition and win. That alone shows that he's either stupid or crazy. I think France and the rest of the coalition have made the right move. Someone like Ghadafi shouldn't be in power, simple as that. I just hope that it goes fast and quick. Some people are musing that this could turn into another Iraq, but I don't see it. The Iraqis were minding there own business when we showed up. They're revolting in Libya. With luck it'll be quick and smooth. I just hope it doesn't drag out for months.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Why is now a great time to help the rebels in Libya?

Because never before in the last 40 years has there been this great instability in the region as there is now. Almost all North African countries have had protests beyond what we would of imagined only a year ago.

Libya has how much oil? How dependent are we on this? How much oil does the U.S get from Libya? Not as much as we could and thats the line threw the sand right there.

While I do not support Ghadifi...At all... But I do not think this is the right approach. How many wars? How much money into our military? Do we seriously need to discuss how much debt the U.S. is in before we attack another country?

"Sorry to the people of the world, the U.S. is not a charity. I do not make enough money to pay the taxes that are required to look after the world. Sorry for your unfortunate circumstances, I hope everything turns out, Alright. Please, do not beg us to waste any more of our money on you. We have our own problems....

Signed, Concerned U.S. Taxpayer."

Erm...I don't know if you know the economics of this but war actually helps! Y'know how the last depression turned around? World War II, that and massive infrastructure. Well now we don't need infrastructure. In the first parts of the "War on Terror" the economy boomed. In '04-07 we had a HUGE amount of money to spend. That's why the standard of living increased so much from '03 to '07. But enough about that.

You're gonna ask me about conflict that caused a shit load of money: Vietnam. Sure, Vietnam was a big amount of money wasted but that war lasted a shit load of time. The thing with war that's economically profitably is a short war. If American troops storm Libya, I'd say in a month max the conflict would be over. World War II was a four year war. War on Terror lasted as long as Bush administration did. Which is about 8 years. The same with Vietnam, it lasted a LONG time. The reason why it did is another thread entirely...

You mentioned the US is not charity. I gotcha, we only look out for ourselves. 'Cept...Oh wait no, we don't. Like 2 years ago we got fucked over by OUR bankers.

Plus, the US isn't exclusively into the war, in case you didn't see the heading. It's a COALITION. Which means US is just helping out. Oh and also Libya isn't the biggest provider of Oil. It's actually a place called Canada. Not to mention, since Gadaffi has made threats against Oil, if we do take his ass out Y'know what we might get? Cheaper oil from the new government we just helped over take the old one! Not to mention construction contracts we might also get. And did I mention a massive increase in our international reputation? Which is actually pretty important if you're a country that has resources and don't wanna be screwed.

BTW Y'know where your tax dollars went in '08? In the bailout so yeah, maybe we should help out Middle Eastern countries that have been ruled by dictators and dogma for a shit load of time and finally liberate that place.

Just sayin, it's nice to know your tax dollars went into helping someone put a bullet in a dictator's head.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

The United Nations gave him every opportunity in the world to step down from power peacefully, and this guy said something along the lines of "Western Powers will regret this" or something of that nature. This guy seems to have it in his head that he can take this Coalition and win. That alone shows that he's either stupid or crazy. I think France and the rest of the coalition have made the right move. Someone like Ghadafi shouldn't be in power, simple as that. I just hope that it goes fast and quick. Some people are musing that this could turn into another Iraq, but I don't see it. The Iraqis were minding there own business when we showed up. They're revolting in Libya. With luck it'll be quick and smooth. I just hope it doesn't drag out for months.

I don't think it will given the right strategy. Under the Bush administration we didn't have a good and proper exit strategy and we had a nation that was minding its own business as you eloquently put it. I think if we were to exert enough force and just bomb the fuck outta the capital to give Gaddafi a simple message, the revolt should be okay.

 

[Minnesota Connection]

Erm...I don't know if you know the economics of this but war actually helps! Y'know how the last depression turned around? World War II, that and massive infrastructure. Well now we don't need infrastructure. In the first parts of the "War on Terror" the economy boomed. In '04-07 we had a HUGE amount of money to spend. That's why the standard of living increased so much from '03 to '07. But enough about that.

Thats because with how our country is, how sick it is, I should say, that people like you think war is a good thing.

You mentioned the US is not charity. I gotcha, we only look out for ourselves. 'Cept...Oh wait no, we don't. Like 2 years ago we got fucked over by OUR bankers.

This has nothing useful to provide.

We go to war with Iraq, Afghanistan. We place sanctions on Iran and Korea, threatening anything but war and now U.S. troops are to "storm" libya has you have suggested?

Excuse me sir, get your big imperialistic ideals and check them out at the door.

Plus, the US isn't exclusively into the war, in case you didn't see the heading. It's a COALITION. Which means US is just helping out.

Who's leading this coalition? Us.

Oh and also Libya isn't the biggest provider of Oil. It's actually a place called Canada.

Libya is untapped. We don't get as much as we could. Never said they were the largest producer, but they are certainly not dry.

Not to mention, since Gadaffi has made threats against Oil, if we do take his ass out Y'know what we might get? Cheaper oil from the new government we just helped over take the old one! Not to mention construction contracts we might also get. And did I mention a massive increase in our international reputation? Which is actually pretty important if you're a country that has resources and don't wanna be screwed.

Thats what I said. We are not there for civilians, we are there for greed.

BTW Y'know where your tax dollars went in '08? In the bailout so yeah, maybe we should help out Middle Eastern countries that have been ruled by dictators and dogma for a shit load of time and finally liberate that place.

Yup, lets liberate the world and continue to be the World Police. That is what U.S. Military really stands for, World Police.

Just sayin, it's nice to know your tax dollars went into helping someone put a bullet in a dictator's head.

Its sickening to think that my tax dollars KILLED civilians.

Bottom line, we don't have money to take care of someone elses problem.

We don't.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Thats because with how our country is, how sick it is, I should say, that people like you think war is a good thing.



This has nothing useful to provide.

We go to war with Iraq, Afghanistan. We place sanctions on Iran and Korea, threatening anything but war and now U.S. troops are to "storm" libya has you have suggested?

Excuse me sir, get your big imperialistic ideals and check them out at the door.



Who's leading this coalition? Us.



Libya is untapped. We don't get as much as we could. Never said they were the largest producer, but they are certainly not dry.



Thats what I said. We are not there for civilians, we are there for greed.



Yup, lets liberate the world and continue to be the World Police. That is what U.S. Military really stands for, World Police.



Its sickening to think that my tax dollars KILLED civilians.

Bottom line, we don't have money to take care of someone elses problem.

We don't.

I'm glad there's a man as intelligent as you are on these forums, I really am but you misunderstood my point.

We've gone into Iraq, Afghanistan and many other countries that were minding their own business. The only time we have gone into a country with some sort of civil war was Vietnam. The reason Vietnam was a failure was because the war was so prolonged and stagnant. Libya is having a full blown revolution. This isn't just us, France has officially rejected Gaddaffi's government.

Sure I advocated that war is good for the economy. But what type of war is where one should draw the line. Is it war against a country we have no business in protecting (Iraq, Vietnam)? Or does it have to do with a country that is already in the middle of a revolt that wants to overthrow a dictatorship because of what they saw in Egypt. I support the Coalition because for the first time in a long time, US is actually helping out. And if we get some Oil from it, that's just gravy. Why did we go into Vietnam? We went in there to stop the Communist domino effect. The theory was is Vietnam fell, so would Cambodia then Laos. Instead of going into Vietnam we could have done a mighty good job of turning Cambodia and Laos, Indonesia, Burma and India (Who's already our allies) into our good friends while we improved their countries. Instead we solved in by the only thing we knew how to do: Blow shit up.

Should we have done something in Egypt? Sure, we urged the leader to step down and he did. Have we done that to Gaddaffi? Yes we have and he responds with "YOU'LL HAVE TO KILL ME WHILE I MURDER CIVILLIANS!" If you look at Youtube, there's actually a guy getting killed because he went face to face with the military. That's what Gaddafi's done. I'm not some nut right wing republican (Hell, I think socialism is a GOOD THING!) My reasoning is that democracy (or atleast progress) is spreading through the middle eastern countries whose dictators had a chokehold on thier people and now the people have finally said "Enough!" But that's just an idealist perspective.

For an economic perspective we like in a military industrial age and we also need some oil. For a political perspective, US will get international points for being benevolent for the first time in like 8 years.

THAT'S my reasoning. I'm not some imperialist but I'm also practical. I know for a fact that the companies will salivate at the thought of untapped oil.

 

[DeadAssState]

I think its the right thing in this case to begin military action in Libya, this time the action is fully supported by the UN and many countries throughout the world including other african and arab nations including the arab league.

Enforcing the no fly zone and the taking out of Libya's air power, and striking against artillery and tanks has ensured the civilian safety. At this point its down to what progress the rebels can make (and they're now reclaiming the cities and territory they lost in the face of the Libyan military) as the UN resolution doesn't allow ground forces or direct international involvement in regime change. There is of course the problem that 2.5 million people live in the area around the capital (Gaddafi controlled) Tripoli and the country only has a population of 6 million so what effect democracy will have is yet to be seen as it hard to guess what percentage of the population is in revolt. Regardless of this, is was correct to intervene and prevent the massacre of 700,000 innocent civilians in Benghazi who Gaddafi said he would show no mercy to.

Just as an aside in reference to earlier posts, Libya is the 12th most oil productive nation and even should their exports of oil totally stop for the next few months it wont effect the world market much, but you have to wonder how much oil is a motivating factor in intervening in Libya specifically and not in say Bahrain where similar oppression is taking place.

The U.S is currently co-ordinating the military action but the plan is for them to take a much smaller role in the coming weeks with NATO combined planning the military action and patrolling of the no fly zone for as long as it is deemed necessary.

Finally, the U.S and a lot of European nations for much of the past century since WWII have relied on a continued war economy to stimulate economic growth (resulting in massive military budgets such as the US, UK and France being in the top 5 for military budgets globally). The creation of potential military threats is essential to the maintaining of a war economy as it means arms can legitimately be developed. War is good for stimulating economic growth, it is ironic however that the very weapons used in oppressing populations are often made in the west and sold to these repressive regimes, effectively were destroying our own equipment.

 

[Minnesota Connection]

I'm glad there's a man as intelligent as you are on these forums, I really am but you misunderstood my point.

We've gone into Iraq, Afghanistan and many other countries that were minding their own business. The only time we have gone into a country with some sort of civil war was Vietnam. The reason Vietnam was a failure was because the war was so prolonged and stagnant. Libya is having a full blown revolution. This isn't just us, France has officially rejected Gaddaffi's government.

After 40 years, numerous terror attacks murdering hundreds maybe more then a thousand people(In the terror attacks...) Not to mention what he did to his own people. Yeah.

This was the tipping point. This isn't a revolution anymore, it IS a civil war. After we eliminate Gaddaffi, which, isn't our U.N. objective, by the way, who's coming after? We simply don't know.

Our goal is to eliminate Gaddaffi, even though the U.N. resolution makes no reference to that. Amazing huh? Once again, im implying that we are the World Police.

Sure I advocated that war is good for the economy. But what type of war is where one should draw the line. Is it war against a country we have no business in protecting (Iraq, Vietnam)? Or does it have to do with a country that is already in the middle of a revolt that wants to overthrow a dictatorship because of what they saw in Egypt. I support the Coalition because for the first time in a long time, US is actually helping out. And if we get some Oil from it, that's just gravy.

I believe after Libya's dictatorship is overthrown, we may see another one arise. Threw revolution comes chaos and its very rare that the intended effect of said revolution is actually realized. If we want to help them achieve this, we will be pumping out billions.

Which could go to where it is more needed... Towards ourselves for a change.

[/quote]Should we have done something in Egypt? Sure, we urged the leader to step down and he did. Have we done that to Gaddaffi? Yes we have and he responds with "YOU'LL HAVE TO KILL ME WHILE I MURDER CIVILLIANS!" If you look at Youtube, there's actually a guy getting killed because he went face to face with the military.[/quote]

Terrible things, but nonetheless, none of our concern.

That's what Gaddafi's done. I'm not some nut right wing republican (Hell, I think socialism is a GOOD THING!) My reasoning is that democracy (or atleast progress) is spreading through the middle eastern countries whose dictators had a chokehold on thier people and now the people have finally said "Enough!" But that's just an idealist perspective.

Thats a western perspective. Not that im saying I am not from the west, but I am saying, that when we think of our perspective we must think of there's... There are very religious people in that region, some of whom, this major step will bring fear of the unknown and thus blood for everyone. Human beings are very scared of what they don't know.

For an economic perspective we like in a military industrial age and we also need some oil. For a political perspective, US will get international points for being benevolent for the first time in like 8 years.

To whom? To countries already on our side? We should be looking to Russia and China and earning their respect. In my opinion, every other nation can take a backseat, because Russia and China are the key to the future.

THAT'S my reasoning. I'm not some imperialist but I'm also practical. I know for a fact that the companies will salivate at the thought of untapped oil.

War is great for capitalism. Pure and simple. Which is why, I am increasingly weary of current events.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I do not think this is a war. We are enforcing a UN Resolution that authorised Military Action without full deceleration of war. If you want to use a technicality, then yes. This is indeed a small scale war. We do not have boots on the ground nor does the other countries in the military action. And as always Fox News takes things a bit too seriously. So far the action is working. It has destroyed nearly all his air defenses and most of his military tools to oppress his people. If I sound like I'm defending this action then so be it. Qadaffi is crazy. No doubt about it and he'd use anything in his power to suppress rather than let the people choose which is what the people in the arab nations now want.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Welp, that guy is a fucking cock, and needs to be thoroughly thumped, and his people liberated and delivered from tyranny.

Im down.

Hello there, we are America, and we came to fuck some shit up.