Chris Jericho and Kane are the most important members of the roster.

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Cena - Would Cena be as big a star if he jobbed to the likes of Evan Bourne just because the IWC loves him? No.

That's fair, but then again, he could always get rolled up with a sneaky grabbing of the tights or being distracted and getting blasted by someone else. The rookie doesn't HAVE to destroy Cena, he just has to get his hand raised at the end of the match. Think how much more credible Sheamus may appear if he'd won the belt due to interference instead of Cena falling off the turnbuckle. Or if Swagger had outsmarted him during their match on Raw not too long ago. We've gone from popular Cena jobbing to Carlito in Carlito's debut match, to loathed Cena never being pinned by anyone who's not held the World title.

Triple H - Are you saying he never gets pinned? Do you remember that failure that goes by the name of Shelton Benjamin? It's not his fault he didn't make it. He lost to him three times I believe and he couldn't get over because the general public didn't like him.

HHH wasn't pinned once in those three instances.

He also helped Jeff Hardy become a star if I remember correctly.

Let's get real now, being a pretty boy who liked jumping off ladders made Jeff Hardy a star. If he'd debuted on his own without Matt and never been in a ladder match, you wouldn't even mention his name in ths same sentence as HHH.

'Taker - Wasn't it thanks to him that guys like Mr. Kennedy became somewhat of a star? Wasn't he the one that made Orton go back into momentum after his horrible face turn? Orlando Jordan is not the only one that has beaten him. Again it's not his fault the they suck on the mic and therefore make the general public uninterested in them.

Can't argue with that, although someone will try to, with the ******ed argument of 'he buries people at WM.....'

HBK - Yes, he only chooses a select few, but imagine if he allowed anyone to pin him. That would make every wrestler a superstar? No.

How often does HBK even wrestle the mid-card guys? Like, never? Umaga, Miz and Morrison and Shelton are the only mid-card guys i can think of from the mid-card that he's wrestled in years.

Batista - Agree with you, but I just mentioned him because he is a bigger draw than Jericho IMO. Even if his wrestling sucks.

Someone else who never wrestles the mid-card guys.

Randy Orton - He will only lose cleanly to main eventers because he has been built up to be one himself. Plus he has given some guys a rub and WWE failed to capitalize on it(well just Kofi that I remember correctly.)

Orton's doing more for the mid-card recently than he ever has, and you've got to give him credit. Sure, all his work with Legacy is going to be a waste of time, because those two are shit, but hey at least he's trying.

So what if Jericho and Kane allow anyone to pin them. I'm not bashing on them, I am just saying that they are not the most important people on this business. This business relies on ratings, draws, money!! Not on some main eventer losing to any midcarder all the time.

I'd say jobbers (and i don't mean Chavo/Santino, stand there for 5 seconds, 3 of which you're led on your back, style jobbers) are equally important. You need someone to make you look good, and there's a fine art to being a good loser all the time, which Kane and Jericho, and even guys like Edge and Christian are great examples of guys who can get beaten repeatedly, but if you suddenly threw them in the World title scene, people wouldn't immediately say 'Well that match will suck.'

A wrestling roster is split into 4 tiers:

ME'ers/Legends
Upper-mid card/mid card title holders
Lower mid-card
Jobbers

imo, the guys at the bottom of each tier are just as good as the guys at the top of each tier. They are the guys that you know aren't going to win by any stretch of the imagination, but you do know that they are going to put the higher guys through their paces, and put on a half decent match that lasts longer than 10 minutes, before they do the job.

Guys like Kane and Jericho are fodder for the popular wrestlers, despite 8 times out of 10, having better skills than the guy they are jobbing to. They make the guys we love look even better, so we end up loving them even more. Otherwise we'd get bored of our heroes wasting nobodies in seconds extremely quickly.

 

[Coco]

Judging men's value to the roster by how well they're able to elevate other wrestling is an interesting thought. I'll agree that Jericho and Kane do a great deal of "putting over" and I've often said that Chris Jericho is the number one "jobber to the stars" in the company in that he actually has people fooled into believing he's a main eventer at times. However, what I think the real issue here is not that Kane or Jericho are exceptionally gifted at putting over other people and title belts, but rather the fact that they're they only two people who are tasked with that kind of work on a regular basis and they look like they're essential because most of the other mechanisms for getting budding stars over are in disarray in the WWE.

No effort is put into letting new stars develop personalities independent of these vets and get compelling conflicts with other young guns so that the stars of tomorrow elevate themselves. Thus, young guns are often left lost at sea until the get that chance to work with a name like Kane or Jericho who is willing to put them over. It's work like this that your HBKs and Triple Hs won't do on 9.5/10 occasions, so it's up to the men you're praising for this FTS. While it's nice of them to humble themselves in the name of R-Truth getting a big win or the tag titles looking important, I don't think Kane and Jericho deserve gold medals because creative and booking in the WWE are guilty of gross levels of sloth and some main eventers feel they're above this work.

Personally, I thinK ECW was more important in building new talent than either Jericho or Kane. It was the one place where you saw clear cut lower card guys forced to interact and get over with eachother or perish. Cream rose to the top in the form of CM Punk (whose first run fell flat because of Raw booking; there can be no doubt, however, that he was over enough to carry the belt when he got to Raw), Christian (major over after working all year with nobodies like Jack Swagger and Yoshi Tatsu), Evan Bourne (he was over; blame Raw bookers), JoMo/Miz, Henry (Seriously), Hardy (Okay, so he was out of shape and had no chemistry with his brother... but that didn't show on ECW), and so on. I think the chance to have proper feuds in the lower card that have some spotlight on them will do more for an up and comer than a random win over Kane or Jericho.

 

[Undertaker the 5th]

That's fair, but then again, he could always get rolled up with a sneaky grabbing of the tights or being distracted and getting blasted by someone else. The rookie doesn't HAVE to destroy Cena, he just has to get his hand raised at the end of the match.Think how much more credible Sheamus may appear if he'd won the belt due to interference instead of Cena falling off the turnbuckle. Or if Swagger had outsmarted him during their match on Raw not too long ago. We've gone from popular Cena jobbing to Carlito in Carlito's debut match, to loathed Cena never being pinned by anyone who's not held the World title.


HHH wasn't pinned once in those three instances.



Let's get real now, being a pretty boy who liked jumping off ladders made Jeff Hardy a star. If he'd debuted on his own without Matt and never been in a ladder match, you wouldn't even mention his name in ths same sentence as HHH.



Can't argue with that, although someone will try to, with the ******ed argument of 'he buries people at WM.....'



How often does HBK even wrestle the mid-card guys? Like, never? Umaga, Miz and Morrison and Shelton are the only mid-card guys i can think of from the mid-card that he's wrestled in years.



Someone else who never wrestles the mid-card guys.



Orton's doing more for the mid-card recently than he ever has, and you've got to give him credit. Sure, all his work with Legacy is going to be a waste of time, because those two are shit, but hey at least he's trying.



I'd say jobbers (and i don't mean Chavo/Santino, stand there for 5 seconds, 3 of which you're led on your back, style jobbers) are equally important. You need someone to make you look good, and there's a fine art to being a good loser all the time, which Kane and Jericho, and even guys like Edge and Christian are great examples of guys who can get beaten repeatedly, but if you suddenly threw them in the World title scene, people wouldn't immediately say 'Well that match will suck.'

A wrestling roster is split into 4 tiers:

ME'ers/Legends
Upper-mid card/mid card title holders
Lower mid-card
Jobbers

imo, the guys at the bottom of each tier are just as good as the guys at the top of each tier. They are the guys that you know aren't going to win by any stretch of the imagination, but you do know that they are going to put the higher guys through their paces, and put on a half decent match that lasts longer than 10 minutes, before they do the job.

Guys like Kane and Jericho are fodder for the popular wrestlers, despite 8 times out of 10, having better skills than the guy they are jobbing to. They make the guys we love look even better, so we end up loving them even more. Otherwise we'd get bored of our heroes wasting nobodies in seconds extremely quickly.

Cena - Okay, so winning by luck or distraction makes you a star now? It sure didn't make the Hurricane a star when he beat The Rock did it? Swagger might be a good wrestler, but he is not over enough to beat Cena cleanly and if he did than that would mean a lot more than a pin over Jericho. I am talking about draws not the availability of a superstar to job to others.

HHH - He did get pinned the first night on Raw and I remember that because I saw it live on tv. You are probably right. If Jeff had debuted on his own he wold have been a star way faster, but like you said "if" and if doesn't count when we are talking about the past.

'Taker - Agreed.

HBK - Oh so Legacy doesn't form part of the midcard? Well than damn I never saw the moment when they went from midcard to main events. Either that or you don't count DX as a main event stable.

Batista - Agreed.

Randy Orton - I do give him credit because he is part of the reason I started liking Kofi Kingston. I don't think all his work with Legacy will be shit, maybe for Cody Rhodes but not for Teddy.

Well to get to the top tier you have to go through the midcard first and Jericho or Kane do make them look good, but they are not draws. A guy will be a draw only after he is established main eventer and beats the top guys. Like Coco said giving them more of a spotlight than just pinning Jericho or Kane can do more for their careers.

 

[ScreaminNormanSmiley]

I think that your misinterpreting the point that the original poster made. He wasn't actually saying that Kane is so important that he deserves the title run or consistent main event status that guys like Batista, Taker, HHH or Cena have enjoyed. Rather that Kane could be used as a great jumping off point for those who are borderline mid-card/main-event. I mean I kinda wish Sheamus woulda gotten into it more with Kane before he was pushed as the WWE champ it woulda given him more legitimacy in my opinion. It's hard to say this and not sound like a fool but having guys like Kane to job to more important wrestlers in bigger events does make your status that much better. If i was wrong and you didn't misinterpret then I do apologize

i apologize that i may have sounded a little harsh. kane is a very important part of the company, more than i gave him credit for in my origional post. people like him are deffinatley nessesary, i was merely arguing hte fact that he is not on the top of the ladder of importance in the roster like the thread name says.

 

[Jaims]

I feel that the original poster has thought out what he has said very well, and I understand where he's coming from. That being said, I cannot agree that Kane is one of the most important people on the Smackdown roster, even by the original poster's definition.

If I have read these posts correctly, the title of "important" is being applied to the wrestlers which fill a critical role in the WWE, irrespective of how high-profile or money-drawing those roles are. A wrestler is deemed important, in this thread, if they are needed to keep the cogs turning in the WWE.

Jericho fits this description exactly. He draws more heat than the sun some nights. And he always will. He could have MVP's angle where he goes on a gigantic losing streak, but once he gets that one win, Jericho would be able to turn it into something which makes him seem like a threat and the crowd would hate him even more for it. And when you have a man that is so despised by the crowd, than any face that goes up against him will get automatic momentum, especially with a win. Jericho is a rare breed, a man with unmistakable talent on the mic and in the ring combined with an understanding that he can put others over and still rock the casbah week after week without fail. He is the single most important person keeping the WWE operating smoothly, I say.

Now Kane, I can't quite go that far to say the same things. He is undeniably a "glue guy" - he connects some of the loose ends each week to keep things cohesive on Smackdown. And as a face, his veteran status and "monster" booking will always garner him a pop from the crowd and some credibility as a perrenial threat in just about everything, even MITB. But the difference between him and Jericho is that I think someone else could fill his role if given the chance. If Jericho put in a 1 month notice of retiring, there is nobody on the roster who could fill his shoes (although I will go out on a limb and say CM Punk in a year or two might be able to). But if Kane did the same thing, I think someone could be booked strong for a month, then go into the pattern of being a monster at the start of a feud and ultimately getting beat and putting over the opponent at the culmination of the feud.

I suppose it would be foolish to say that comment without at least giving an example of who could fill his role, so I will venture to say that there is one person on Smackdown right now who could be a perfect Kane, just in heel form - Mike Knox.

You see, Knox possesses the same physical "appeal" that Kane does - a large, mean-looking dude that is agile for his size who can bust out some big moves to get the crowd going. Kane has the big boot, Knox has the pump kick. Kane goes off the top rope, Knox has the running crossbody. Kane does the dropkick to the face, Knox can do a freaking STANDING DROPKICK (it was great to see). The only thing that Knox doesn't have right now is wins and the years of character development that Kane has. But if Knox was booked strong for 1 month, getting essentially all wins and also getting some mic time, he would be a believable threat in the eyes of the crowd. And then, he could start the Kane cycle: beat down a new face wrestler once or twice, get upset by the face wrestler later on, then ultimately lose the rubber match at the end of the feud.

So, Kane does fill his role nicely right now on Smackdown, but I do not think he is entirely indispensable. If he left and no one replaced him, it would weaken the product for sure, but I think there are some guys who could take his role if need be.

 

[Moda B Turki]

U think Kane and Jericho are the best of the roster?

Com'on dude for real .. ? Kane has got some talent Look at Kane back on 98 and 97's He was what u gotta say ... A real monster ...? Look at him now his almost Crap .. dosnt main event any more and now their pushing him with Drew? ... Thats dosnt make any sense .. he sure have got the talent but has got no Push from the WWE , and for real i think he gotta move to Raw Gotta get some chance For maybe The WWE Champoin , or Fued him with any world title not IC title ...

and Jericho now i really love his charcter but i dont like cheering for this guy , i truely love him as a face ... cuz maybe as a face he can do much better work and get title instead of this now , The WWE Gave him the title just becuase they wanna fued him with EDGE ,, but for real , He dose not deserve to be the WHC ... maybe as a face it works with him , or maybe he could be working much better as IC Champoin ,, So They arn't the best on the roster ,, as u can see there is Undertaker ? Edge? batista? Thats only on smackdown ..

 

[KoC417]

U think Kane and Jericho are the best of the roster?

Com'on dude for real .. ? Kane has got some talent Look at Kane back on 98 and 97's He was what u gotta say ... A real monster ...? Look at him now his almost Crap .. dosnt main event any more and now their pushing him with Drew? ... Thats dosnt make any sense .. he sure have got the talent but has got no Push from the WWE , and for real i think he gotta move to Raw Gotta get some chance For maybe The WWE Champoin , or Fued him with any world title not IC title ...

and Jericho now i really love his charcter but i dont like cheering for this guy , i truely love him as a face ... cuz maybe as a face he can do much better work and get title instead of this now , The WWE Gave him the title just becuase they wanna fued him with EDGE ,, but for real , He dose not deserve to be the WHC ... maybe as a face it works with him , or maybe he could be working much better as IC Champoin ,, So They arn't the best on the roster ,, as u can see there is Undertaker ? Edge? batista? Thats only on smackdown ..

Not the best on the roster..the most IMPORTANT. There is a big difference. As stated before Jericho & Kane do what no one else has been able to fully accomplish. They have remained INJURY free for the majority of their career while performing at a high level at the levels of the event (Main event, Mid-card, lower-card, opener etc).

And why doesn't Jericho deserve to be WHC?

Jericho has been around, paid his dues, put over WHOEVER he was asked to put over, never tried back stage politics, NEVER complained about having to give up his IC title to Benjamin when Jericho was clearly the better of the 2.

Perhaps reading the title of the thread and everyone elses posts will help clarify your confusion?

 

[UseYourBrain]

I agree that they are extremely valuable, but how the hell can you say they've never played backstage politics? Not like I care if they have done that, to be honest. Still, we don't know because we're not there. By making a statement like that, you are going only by what you read on internet wrestling sites and that is pretty ignorant.

 

[chrisddusombre]

as far as Jericho goes i Agree that he is the best! There is a reason that he says week end and week out that he is the Best in the World at what he does cause its true...Its Damn true!!!!!! Kane in my opinion is a monster in wait... probably when Taker retires Kane will assume the role as the new "Thenom" if you will of the WWE... They are just not playing him right, right now anyway!

 

[Low_Ki]

I agree that both are important, Jericho more so than Kane, but MOST important?

The 'E' has survived well enough without both of them and as the old saying goes, the show will go on with or without them. Jericho was gone for two years and the company trugged along. I do agree though that now more than ever, a guy like Jericho is massively important to the WWE roster.

Kane on the other hand is a different story. The Kane of yester-year was very important to the WWE brand as a whole. He was the unstoppable monster. And although there is a lack of world title gold in his past, he was still looked upon as a great character. Now it seems, without the mask there is no more mystery. His monster persona has been toned down because of the audience shift and he has now been demoted to jobbing to Drew McIntyre. I don't like it one bit. As far as Kane being important, no anymore he isn't. I haven't watched SmackDown in many years and I haven't seen Kane on my TV in ages. Unfortunately, he is not, and will not be missed.

 

[X]

Kane? Absolutely not FTS. Who the fuck has Kane ever elevated? For the life of me I cannot think of a single person that Kane has gotten over because of their feud. Undertaker? Obviously not. Austin? Obviously not. X-Pac? Nope. Edge? Nope. Mark Henry? Nope. Seriously, I cannot think of a single solitary person that has been helped from a feud with Kane. Khali? Hell no. I like Kane as well man, but he's been absolutely useless for the last 5+ years, and is in NO WAY one of the most important members of the roster. He could be fired tomorrow and absolutely nothing would change in the WWE.

Jericho I agree with though, guy can work any part of the card in any kind of match and always remain credible, absolutely one of the most valuable guys on the roster for more than one reason. But Kane? No.

 

[DL23]

Now, anyone who read the wrestling posts I have made knows that I am a huge mark for Kane. I think he set of skills at his side have always been impressive. While he may have lost a step, he still puts on good matches, and with great workers, Kane is not a let down.

Chris Jericho is another one of my favorites. I know that I rail on cruisers, but a few guys from the WCW Crusierweight division have gone on to success in the big leagues. Chris Jericho is one of them. As the first undisputed champion of the world, he certainly has no one to answer to as far as great careers go.

Both of these guys fill very important roles in the WWE's current state. They are credible and workable at every spot on the card. Kane could open show and certainly be in the main event to job to a top guy. He is the perfect guy to use as an enforcer type in a tag match or to do the job to make an up and comer credible. Chris Jericho can win the World Title at any show, elevate the midcard belt at any time, and has always done the job at the right time. He never loses credibility for his next reign when he loses. He is a great worker, and when paired with another great worker is capable of ***** matches at all times.

What these gentlemen have in common is the ability to stay healthy. They are able to answer the bell every week, and because of that, have stayed relevant for years. The fact that they're always around allows them to be used in the way that they are.

I totally disagree with you my friend.

Chris Jericho would be a huge miss in WWE at this present time, Kane however is just a floater, he'll never be released, on the same hand tho he'll never win the world title again, I doubt he'd even get the IC belt if I'm honest with you.

I honestly hope I'm wrong as I'd love to see Kane get a image revamp and have one more run at the main event scene before he retires.

 

[wbuqed]

and Jericho now i really love his charcter but i dont like cheering for this guy , i truely love him as a face ... cuz maybe as a face he can do much better work and get title instead of this now , The WWE Gave him the title just becuase they wanna fued him with EDGE ,, but for real , He dose not deserve to be the WHC ... maybe as a face it works with him , or maybe he could be working much better as IC Champoin ,, So They arn't the best on the roster ,, as u can see there is Undertaker ? Edge? batista? Thats only on smackdown ..

ok no offense dude but you do come off like a huge mark for the simple heel/face idea. I mean you don't want the person to have the brand's biggest belt because he's a heel? seriously? Besides Jericho has proven to be an amazing wrestler when given the role of leader of a brand and he shows that his character can take down challenges no matter if the ending is clean or dirty. Besides Y2J the heel does work his best when he has the superiority complex and how much more superior can u be then when your the world champ

 

[Ben-Phillips]

If you need someone elevated to the point that they can sell merchandise and tickets, they need to go through Kane. If you need a belt elevated, it goes to Jericho. Look at the importance of the IC belt and tag belts after being associated with Jericho. Those belts were going nowhere and he saved them.

I get what you mean, and I'm not saying that's not important. However, earlier I said John Cena, and it doesn't matter how reputable or prestigious a championship is if no one is watching. 'Nuff said.

Not trying to be an ass, I dig your posts and it's good logic, rather than just a marky response "I luv Kane n Jericho!" I just have to respectfully disagree.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Cena - Okay, so winning by luck or distraction makes you a star now? It sure didn't make the Hurricane a star when he beat The Rock did it?

It did for a little while yes, he started getting pushed for quite a while and then they just gave up on him. They even pushed him with the Gregory Helms gimmick, but then he got a neck injury, was gone for a year, and they gave up on him.

Swagger might be a good wrestler, but he is not over enough to beat Cena cleanly and if he did than that would mean a lot more than a pin over Jericho. I am talking about draws not the availability of a superstar to job to others.

But you can get people over by having them beat the recognised names. Everyone was shitting on Ziggler until he beat Kahli 3 times in a row, then suddenly everyone wanted him to be IC champ!

HHH - He did get pinned the first night on Raw and I remember that because I saw it live on tv. You are probably right.

I seem to recall a count-out, a DQ, and a roll-up using the ropes.

If Jeff had debuted on his own he wold have been a star way faster, but like you said "if" and if doesn't count when we are talking about the past.

The guy is and always has been terrible on the mic. If he'd not been put in those Ladder matches with the Dudleys and Edge and Christian, he'd have done nothing. He was always a spot monkey and nothing more throughout his career. He's a poor man's RVD, but RVD has charisma. Jeff Hardy is a pretty boy who jumps off of things. Without that trianlge ladder fued, he'd have gotten no farther than where JoMo is right now.

HBK - Oh so Legacy doesn't form part of the midcard? Well than damn I never saw the moment when they went from midcard to main events. Either that or you don't count DX as a main event stable.

I'll give you that, totally forgot about them, as i try to every time i suffer watching them.

Randy Orton - I do give him credit because he is part of the reason I started liking Kofi Kingston. I don't think all his work with Legacy will be shit, maybe for Cody Rhodes but not for Teddy.

They are just SOOOOOOOOO boring to watch in just about every aspect, that beating Orton in 5 seconds whilst wearing a blindfold and being hog tied, wouldn't convince me that they were actually worth watching.

Well to get to the top tier you have to go through the midcard first and Jericho or Kane do make them look good, but they are not draws. A guy will be a draw only after he is established main eventer and beats the top guys. Like Coco said giving them more of a spotlight than just pinning Jericho or Kane can do more for their careers.

But since next to no one is willing to let them have that spotlight, then we have to resort to guys like Kane and Jericho, therefore making them very important members of the roster.

 

[gd]

Kane is actually rather worthless. Sure, he's big and has been around for awhile, but so what? He's more of a problem for the WWE at this point. They feel that have to put him on the WM card, so they just throw him in the MITB for no reason. Also, he definetly couldn't work at the top of the card at the moment. Wouldn't be believable in the slightest. Kane will likely be replaced by Gallows as somewhat worthless monster heel soon enough.

Jericho is quite important to the roster, as he does put a lot of people over. I'm pretty sure the majority of the SD midcard has defeated Jericho in a match with the last year, which is definetly a good thing. He isn't a very good World Champ, but is serviceable enough there. However, I'm sure the WWE would be absolutely fine if Jericho was injured and had to miss some significant time. He's pretty good, but ain't that special.

 

[Truth Hurtz]

Kane should have never taken the mask off. Period THE END. It ruined the Kane character...it was cool for that one night he took it off and the next show but that's it. He was so ill with mask one of my favorites. Now he's so lame. He should have atleast kept his hair...But i guess he kinda does look like a psycho. WHY THE FUCK CANT HE JUST GET BURNED OR SOMETHING AND PUT THE MASK BACK ON? FUCK!

If Kane never took his mask off....there is no doubt in my mind he'd be a multiple time world champion by now and probably still be main eventing all the time and would go down and a real legendary character. Sure Kane will go down somewhat legendary...but certainly not for much that he's done since the mask came off.

 

[KoC417]

Kane is actually rather worthless. Sure, he's big and has been around for awhile, but so what? He's more of a problem for the WWE at this point. They feel that have to put him on the WM card, so they just throw him in the MITB for no reason. Also, he definetly couldn't work at the top of the card at the moment. Wouldn't be believable in the slightest. Kane will likely be replaced by Gallows as somewhat worthless monster heel soon enough.

Jericho is quite important to the roster, as he does put a lot of people over. I'm pretty sure the majority of the SD midcard has defeated Jericho in a match with the last year, which is definetly a good thing. He isn't a very good World Champ, but is serviceable enough there. However, I'm sure the WWE would be absolutely fine if Jericho was injured and had to miss some significant time. He's pretty good, but ain't that special.

While I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of Kane, I can definately see where you are coming from. WWE doesn't know what to do with Kane so they stick him in the MITB match. But the fact that they put him in there means he does in fact mean something to the company. If he wasn't worth using they literally wouldn't put him in there. They could put ANY number of stars in his place, but they don't.

As far as your Jericho assessment you pretty much hit it right on about the SmackDown! roster pinning/beating him. But to your point about if he left with injury and took "significant" time as you put it. Who on SmackDown! would be there to not only give stars a solid rub, but also make them look great in a match and allowing them to pin their shoulders to the mat for a solid 3 count? When you beat Jericho it actually means something. I hate to say it but when you strip away all the "$" BS Jericho is more valuable than HHH. I know that is a wild comment to make but look at it. Can HHH move down to the TAG TEAM division and actually make the belts GOOD again? No they tried and honestly DX getting the belts, IMO derailed all the momentum Jeri-show had given to the titles. Jericho can also have a solid run at the IC title despite being a Main-Event wrestler. HHH can't ever drop down to run after the IC title again because he's "The Game".

I'm not saying Jericho is BETTER than HHH or anyone else (because let's face it. His sales are no where near where HHH/Cena's are) but he IS by far one of their most valuable assets.

 

[Undertaker the 5th]

It did for a little while yes, he started getting pushed for quite a while and then they just gave up on him. They even pushed him with the Gregory Helms gimmick, but then he got a neck injury, was gone for a year, and they gave up on him.

So technically it failed.

But you can get people over by having them beat the recognised names. Everyone was shitting on Ziggler until he beat Kahli 3 times in a row, then suddenly everyone wanted him to be IC champ!

I don't know who everyone is. Plus the Great Khali is not John Cena, he is just a jobber and the only difference between him and Kane is that he can't wrestle.

I seem to recall a count-out, a DQ, and a roll-up using the ropes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwjM-LXBFQ0
Go to that link and then tell me he never pinned him. It is exactly what you are asking for from John Cena, to lose to a roll up without the ropes.

The guy is and always has been terrible on the mic. If he'd not been put in those Ladder matches with the Dudleys and Edge and Christian, he'd have done nothing. He was always a spot monkey and nothing more throughout his career. He's a poor man's RVD, but RVD has charisma. Jeff Hardy is a pretty boy who jumps off of things. Without that trianlge ladder fued, he'd have gotten no farther than where JoMo is right now.

I thought you meant if he started his career alone he would have skyrocketted to the top, but now I see where you're coming from and I agree.

I'll give you that, totally forgot about them, as i try to every time i suffer watching them.

Yea, they are in some of the parts I switch channels on.

They are just SOOOOOOOOO boring to watch in just about every aspect, that beating Orton in 5 seconds whilst wearing a blindfold and being hog tied, wouldn't convince me that they were actually worth watching.

Same as last.

But since next to no one is willing to let them have that spotlight, then we have to resort to guys like Kane and Jericho, therefore making them very important members of the roster.

I don't think that is true. The people want to see the big name when they watch tv. Why would you put guys like Evan Bourne or Jack Swagger in the main event? They have not accomplished anything and people don't want to see that. The only thing that people wold see about Bourne his finisher. Jericho and Kane are not names that are to big to make the midcarders that beat them main eventers. Plus HBK and Undertaker are close to retirement and there will have to be stars moved up to fill those spots. Maybe Jericho plays an "important" part in making someone a main eventer in the future, but certainly not Kane.