Cena a Carbon Copy of Hogan/Can Cena REALLY Turn Heel?

[shafe_41]

Ok bare with me for a moment and think of the career of Hulk Hogan. Focusing on the key moments, here's how it went... Enter WWE, become champion, become the face of the company, do some crappy movies. Think of John Cena. His career is basically the same thing in pretty much the same order. All this is going somewhere so just bare with me.

The Cena can't wrestle horse has been beaten to death and I won't deny that I helped in beating it. I hate Cena's ringwork but I know that's how he's booked and if you've read my posts, you know that by now. But look at Hogan. How many offensive moves did Hogan really have? I think less than Cena. Other than your basic moves, all Hogan really did was get the initial offense of the match, take a beating, then get invincible where he shakes his head while prancing around the ring, takes 2 or 3 more punches before the opponent gets the finger point and the headshake... well if you've seen a Hogan match, you know the rest. Same with Cena... as soon as the shoulder blocks start, it's the 5 moves of doom time. So even I'm in agreement that there's an easy perception that Hogan couldn't wrestle either. Hogan=Cena. They entertain in the ring whether you like them or not and that's what they're supposed to do. But down the road came the Hogan heel turn, and it was done in epic fashion. It solidified the nWo as argueably the greatest heel faction in history.

But here's where the thinking comes in... the nWo machine sold a TON of merch. The nWo made being heel "cool" for the first time ever. I owned 2 nWo shirits myself. Now I know that Cena is the cash cow machine for the WWE and all the kids HAVE to have his new shirts when they are released, but how much does that really bring in? I know there's more than just Cena shirts, but you can't deny a Cena heel turn still wouldn't generate a ton of money. If anything, his fan base will get bigger because there's probably half the audience that despises his gimmick now anyway.

The questtion I pose here is if it can work for Hogan, why can't it work for Cena? Is the only reason here the fact that he's the WWE's Golden Boy and it worked with Hogan because he came to WCW which is a change in company? I think if given the perfect situation (which is a bad term because anything works in the perfect situation), it can happen and it can be a success. Because up to this point, Cena's career is pretty much a carbon copy of Hogan's to me. Basically, they were both Vince's Golden Superstar, but the heel turn happened. Will a Cena heel turn just be a matter of time once he's gone through and feuded with everybody 43 times which seems to be the current trend?

 

[PhoenixBuster]

I've seen the Hogan/Cena comparison time and time again on these forums and yes, it is uncanny how similar the two are. I'd be extremely interested in a Cena heel turn as I, having been perhaps overly patient with his gimmick, am now finding it to be turning stale. I do think it will happen EVENTUALLY. The problem here is "When will the WWE get up the balls to do it?"

 

[DXRulez19]

He is almst exactly like Hogan as you said. Also I agree that it would be good 4 him to do new feuds but i don't think they will ever turn him heel. Vince is into the "kid friendly" thing now so it wouldn't work as well and i doubt he will do it. Also i don't think they will take the merchandise sales risk.

 

[Loveless]

They'll do it when they've got a truly popular face to replace him. I genuinely think that guy is Kennedy.

 

[LMaruko]

Ive heard this question posed many times before: CAN John Cena become a heel? I honestly think it can be done.

There are plenty of people out their who have their ideas about how a face-to-heel/heel-to-face process goes, but I think it's a mixture of a lot of things: How a wrestler is booked; storyline build-up, the other wrestler booked in the story, in-ring ability, how the wrestler feels according to the decision, etc.

But of course, there can be face-to-heels that go bad: Look at the American-Bad Ass Undertaker. Hell, he was even called Booger Red by JR, and he's usually not the ones to come up with the slapstick (it's a rarity). I hated how the Undertaker was booked like that. It just wasn't him.

I think that Cena hasn't been milked as much as Vince wants yet as a face. Vinnie Mac tried to get Orton in as a face, and that didn't work. Orton makes one hell of a heel now. So, I think, giving a matter of time Vince will give the green light for a Cena heel.

Just sit it out.

 

[attila]

John Cena' s whole Gangsta Rap gimmick started from a heel turn in late 2003 /early 2004 (from memory). He's been a heel before, and quite frankly he was a pretty good heel. Even his ring work was better because he wasn't held to the 5 moves of doom, which by the way is a marketing thing.

The only problem is people liked him as a heel. I would draw more comparison with Steve Austin than Hogan, they just never took advantage of the character and its opportunity. When Cena was rude, foul-mouthed and arrogant he would get cheered so they turned him babyface. He should have been the anti-hero, where the dirtier he got the more he got cheered, like the Stone Cold character - but in my opinion Vince fucked it all up by changing him into the modern Hogan ultra-good boy from Stamford who was really into Vanilla Ice growing up; when he was almost buyable as an NYC orphan who grew up under foster care in Yonkers.

 

[bxbigshow]

Can he turn heel? Dumb question, he was a heel previously and it got him over. Hence the switch to face.

Vince needs to keep things status quo for a long time now if he wants a Cena heel turn to work. Right now he sells to much merch as a face, might not be worth the risk.

Kids love him and WWE has gone to the kids so breaking there wittle hearts won't work, back to the merch argument.

Vince needs to let Cena become stale...not with 'us' but those kids who love him. Then pull the trigger. Hogan worked so well because the kids who grew up with him, grew PAST him, so when Hogan switched it brought them in again.

 

[HATECHOIR]

First off the comparisons are accurate and fair when it comes to Hogan/Cena, but there is no denying Hogan was a 110% SOLID Face, where as Cena has alot of people on the fence when it comes to his popularity. For a "Hogan Like" heel turn, it could happen, but theres a catch....Cena needs to stay around for a while. Look at it like this...

Hogans heyday was the "kid friendly" 80s WWF, those little hulkamanaics turned into teenager heel lovers that hated the red yellow, say your prayers, eat your vitamins hogan gimmick, then he turned heel with the nWo, and they all were there to support there new "bad guy" hollywood hogan!

These little cena fans that love the you cant see me, 5 knuckle shuffle cena will turn when they hit 13, and they will all glady be there, when he snaps, re-names his moves back to the FU, and STFU respectivley and says screw you to whoever that might be.

Cena can go as a face, or heel, he is over in a big way, and he has people that either really love him, or really hate him, and in wrestling just like the music industry thats REALLY good, cause there is no room for the middle of the road guys who get no response one way, or the other, to really love a face you have to hate a heel (see jericho vs steamboat), and to really love a heel you have to hate a face (see edge vs cena), so cena love him or not is going to be doing this at the top of the pile for a long time anyway about it!

Truth be known id like to see him just go straight bad ass like Austin and tell everybody to go to hell and stomp ass like that, he would probably get even MORE over than his now, but thats just me!

Time for Backlash!

www.myspace.com/hatechoirmusic

 

[Dragonslayer]

Well, the answer is simple - without a doubt can Cena be turned heel. Especially keeping in mind the comparison to Hogan. You have to remember that Hogan, at the time he joined/founded the nWo and made his heelturn, he had been hands-down THE single most over face in the history of the business for more than ten, almost fifteen years straight; Cena has been in his prominent "Face Of The Company" role now for a couple of years, but nowhere near the time Hogan was; and also not anywhere near the level Hogan was. That level is simply unattainable, Steve Austin was definitely close and arguably there (though I'm inclined to say "no" to that), and Cena still has a way to go to get there; simply because he just has not yet shown enough depth and dimension in his work.

That is of course not his fault, as has been pointed out; it has to do with the way Cena is being booked and how he has for a time been force-fed to the audience which resulted in the split crowd for him now. WWE was definitely trying to build him into a new Hogan, but they just didn't realize it couldn't be done the way they were able to do it back in the 1980ies. Now, Cena actually has a tough job in my opinion; sure, the kids love him, and they make up a large part of WWE's current audience... but a lot of the older demographic don't, and he will have a hard time winning them over again.

His chance, though, definitely is the heel turn. But it needs to be a MASSIVE heel turn, and I think this is what WWE is working towards by keeping him face this long, even though they must've realized it doesn't exactly work the way they intended. Of course he's selling tons of merch, but as has been said - that could work as a heel as well, if it's done right; simply because a different part of the audience will be interested in that type of merch. But anyway, that is not my subject here, heh... Hogan's heel turn was so damn good, and the best in the history of the business, the one that will never replicated, because it had taken him almost fifteen years to do that. Now in our day and age, WWE can't go that long, and they know that. But they've kept Cena face constantly for a very long time already, especially for today's standards... so once they turn him, maybe in a year or two, it will make a much much larger impact than "just another turn" would.

And to go back to the comparison to Hogan... the initial post somehow sounded to me as though it would be harder for Cena to turn heel the longer he remains a face... I however think that it is in fact helpful for a future turn that he has been a face for such a long time, because it will have a bigger impact, much like Hogan's turn had infinitely more meaning than any other heelturn ever, simply because he had been a face forever and no one could even picture him in another role anymore. But Hogan managed to pull it off (granted his off-the-charts charisma), and I believe that John Cena, with the love and passion for the business he is said to have, can definitely handle that too.

WWE needs the right timing and a really good storyline to go with that to make it believable just WHY Cena would all of a sudden turn on his fans, after such a long time of being Mr Nice Guy; they really should invest more thought into that once the time comes than into the average heel/faceturn storyline, Cena is just too important for the company right now to deserve any less. But to be honest, even though I'm pretty indifferent towards Cena, although I never could really relate to his character (might be a generation thing I guess, heh), I definitely respect the amount of work he puts in and the attitude he's apparently showing, so I really hope he gets the chance to explore something new in the next couple of years so as to add that necessary depth and dimension I mentioned earlier to his persona, which could enable him to finally connect to all of his audience. He definitely has a lot of potential, but WWE needs to put in some work of their own in the creative department to make John Cena really the cart-pulling character they like to portray him as already. Just now, you only get the impression that WWE is showing you the guy like they WANT him to be; but at the same time, you just get the feeling that in truth, when it comes down to it, he just isn't that guy... yet.

I think he has the potential, both in the ring and mic-wise, but it won't happen until WWE changes things over a little... but I suppose they dare not risk this unless they have a second huge face coming to replace Cena once he should turn heel. Maybe Orton might do that job if he turns face eventually, but those are very big IFs, and also things that I suppose lie in the very distant future still.

 

[KANE-A-KNIGHT]

as much as i hate saying it and as much as i dont want it to happen (as i am a cena hater) he is turning heel when he goes after the streak at wrestlmania. after he losses they will shake hands and he will be face. a bit like hogan/HBK

 

[bobbycapo]

So if Cena was a heel you'd cheer for him? Silly sheep.

I'd rather him rip another muscle or break his neck again and have him out of action for another few months. Besides, why do you need another heel with the crop of heels you have now? If anything, you need more main event faces.

 

[jnmaher]

They'll do it when they've got a truly popular face to replace him. I genuinely think that guy is Kennedy.

You hit the nail on the head. Hogan's heal turn was 12 years after his first title reign, so....in saying that Cena's is going to be a couple more years. This gives wwe sometime to build up Kennedy, cause he is the man. I remember first seeing him, i had the same feeling about him as i did when i first saw Austin. Once all the old blokes go and all the fresh faces become established wrestling will be once again quite good!

 

[ThaRaph]

First off the comparisons are accurate and fair when it comes to Hogan/Cena, but there is no denying Hogan was a 110% SOLID Face, where as Cena has alot of people on the fence when it comes to his popularity. For a "Hogan Like" heel turn, it could happen, but theres a catch....Cena needs to stay around for a while. Look at it like this...

Hogans heyday was the "kid friendly" 80s WWF, those little hulkamanaics turned into teenager heel lovers that hated the red yellow, say your prayers, eat your vitamins hogan gimmick, then he turned heel with the nWo, and they all were there to support there new "bad guy" hollywood hogan!

These little cena fans that love the you cant see me, 5 knuckle shuffle cena will turn when they hit 13, and they will all glady be there, when he snaps, re-names his moves back to the FU, and STFU respectivley and says screw you to whoever that might be.

Cena can go as a face, or heel, he is over in a big way, and he has people that either really love him, or really hate him, and in wrestling just like the music industry thats REALLY good, cause there is no room for the middle of the road guys who get no response one way, or the other, to really love a face you have to hate a heel (see jericho vs steamboat), and to really love a heel you have to hate a face (see edge vs cena), so cena love him or not is going to be doing this at the top of the pile for a long time anyway about it!

Truth be known id like to see him just go straight bad ass like Austin and tell everybody to go to hell and stomp ass like that, he would probably get even MORE over than his now, but thats just me!

Time for Backlash!

www.myspace.com/hatechoirmusic

this is what confuses me about some wrestling fans...people boo Cena because his moves are few and not that convincing (aside from the FU)and he ALMOST always comes out on top....yet all Hogan has was a kick to the face and a leg drop....A DAMN LEG DROP!!! and people still cry & beg for one more Hogan match, no matter what ring it's in

 

[ThaRaph]

So if Cena was a heel you'd cheer for him? Silly sheep.

I'd rather him rip another muscle or break his neck again and have him out of action for another few months. Besides, why do you need another heel with the crop of heels you have now? If anything, you need more main event faces.

good point...only M.E. faces they have right now are Cena, HHH(who's probably gonna take some time off after tonight), Batista (who just came back) and HBK & Taker (who are probably gonna be gone in a year or so)

 

[MrPlatano1989]

its funny this post, because when he was injured late 2007, i thought he should return at wrestlemania and turn heel, for example, grab the chair from a heel which will get a pop from the world, then hit the face and cost him the match, it will get massive heat, like at bash at the beach when hogan joined the outsiders, but it never happen, doesnt mean it cant happen in similiar fashion, he should be the leader of a heel faction down the road, maybe with kennedy as a member as well, someone else too, anyways if done right he could crush lil kids hearts and be an instant heel like hogan in 96

 

[attila]

Just to point out.. everyone keeps saying how over Hogan still was as a face in WCW before the heel turn. Hogan was a couple years past his welcome. I remember going to WCW live events and Hogan ripping his singlet to thousands of boos. The gimmick was dead long before the nWo came along - it had a lot to do with Hogan turning heel to begin with. You can't compare the two in terms of longevity. Cena can't stay face that long, the industry moves a lot faster these days.

 

[Total Impact]

Cena could turn heel easy with the fact that he is already getting booed by the fans, so he is half way there. I men all he has to do is drop the ""thug Life" gimmick and maybe do what the Rock did and become the Corporate Champion, or sell his soul for the WWE Title. It would be perfect if the WWE does it this year by having him come close to the title and never getting only to join Vince to get the belt like Rock & Austin did.

 

[GameOver]

He was a heel to start with same with Hogan, he can be a heel again.
If Hogan can go from Mega face for 8yrs to Mega-Heel overnight anyone can.

Austin turned, The Rock turned, Bret Hart took a huge change ironically at a similar time to Stings change, Ric Flair has changed alignment more times than you can count infact almost everyone who's been a huge face has turned successfully at some point.

It just takes one act on the mic and maybe attack another face that is really over and bam you are heel.

and the fact that still atleast 50% of people don't like Cena anyway it doesn't take much effort. he gets booed as it is. Problem might be that a heel change might make him actually interesting and thus be a favourite with those that hated him.

He was a heel soon after his debut and IMO he was far more interesting then now he's a lame Real American Austin wannabe. His ring work is not as shotty as it was. Also as has been stated time and time again ou can't criticze based on limited movesets, every main eventer has that. It's designed that way
A) so they do those limited moves properly and
B) they reckon we can't fathom huge movesets and just want to see a few moves and a finisher

Least thats how it appears

 

[Mark0820]

Here's the thing, Hogan COULD wrestle. Watch his early IWGP and New Japan matches. Was he Bret Hart? No, but he could wrestle. He used several submission moves there. He then figured out in America you don't have to actually work matches like that to get over. Cena, while he may actually know more moves, knows that as well. Look at his match with Swagger. The match was fantastic. Same with his match with Jericho. The guys like HBK and Jericho are used now to make others look good. It's a sad fact but it's what happens. It happened even back in Hogan's era. Why do you think Hogan had feuds with Piper, Hennig, and DiBiase? All three could make Hogan look good in the ring. Which of them held the WWE title? Only Hogan(No I'm not counting DiBiase buying the title from Andre after the screw job). The best workers are always the ones who'll get a title reign here and there to give them some legitimacy but will always be second tier in WWE's pushing. Why? The American audience(read not the IWC) simply does not care if the match is another Hart/Austin submission match.

 

[KillBill]

this is what confuses me about some wrestling fans...people boo Cena because his moves are few and not that convincing (aside from the FU)and he ALMOST always comes out on top....yet all Hogan has was a kick to the face and a leg drop....A DAMN LEG DROP!!! and people still cry & beg for one more Hogan match, no matter what ring it's in

I know what your saying, but...its Hogan. I don't know how to explain it. I loved Hogan, didn't matter that he only had a few moves. Maybe that just worked better then, because there were so many monster heels and such, that thats what worked. You can't explain it, its just 1 of those things. Maybe the problem is that they are trying to turn Cena into Hogan, thats why it wont work. There won't be another Hogan.

But back on subject, A Cena heel turn could be harder than you think. The NWO was already forming when Hogan joined. Hall and Nash had come in and laid the groundwork, making them heels, the Hogan joined in and it happened. Hogan joined hatable guys to go against the most popular in WCW. I'm saying that if Cena's gonna do it, maybe he should form a group, like they start something, then he joins. By himself, who could he attack that would make the little kids turn on him? You gotta find someone that he could brutalize, to make kids upset. Probably the ideal guy would be Mysterio, because there are too many tweeners, Punk, MVP, HHH, just don't know if they are over enough. Maybe Hardy, but ehhh, that wouldnt do it for me either. But if there gonna copy the Hogan thing, if he had guys with him to do gang attacks on guys, that could work. I'm just saying, with so few pure faces, it may be harder than you think.

And by the way...Kennedy again? Jesus, the guy needs to get healthy first, although if he turned heel too, and those 2 took over, now that could work.

 

[Kyphael]

I think the thing WWE is worried about isn't whether or not they can turn Cena and have him be boo'ed. They know he'll get boo'ed. The question is, is there an alternative babyface who can carry the company on his shoulders while Cena plays the baddie? At the moment, no? The most logical answers would be Punk or Hardy. Punk hasn't been booked strongly enough to possibly stand toe to toe with a heel Cena and I don't know that his fanbase is quite as large as Cena's. Hardy (Jeff) is not reliable enough to put the company on.

I guess a face HHH would be the fail safe to take on Cena but how long could that last? Undertaker is at the end of his career, as is Michaels so I don't think they should invest making them the focus of the company. Edge, Jericho and Orton never worked as well as faces as they did heels. MVP is kind of over as a face but I wouldn't say he's ready to be that guy, or if he'll ever be, really. Christian looks way too puny and Swagger is too green and still a heel. Mysterio just isn't formidable enough. There is no alternative choice for a face of the company (other than the same old boring choice: HHH) to carry the company if Cena does make a heel turn. I think that's the reason WWE hasn't done it, yet.