Can you see the similarities between present day WWE and WWF in 2000-2001?

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

2000 and 2001 are probably the best years WWF/E have ever had. They had a great roster headed by two ultra charismatic faces and they also churned out great storylines. They were the years when it seemed that WWF had discovered the Midas touch.

However if you think about it you will find that there are actually a lot of similarities between the two eras. These are the ones that have come to my mind:

1) The Cena-Orton story is exactly similar to the Rock-Austin story in 2000. Austin had been the undisputed top dog of the company till he got injured and when he returned he found that there was a guy who could challenge and perhaps even supercede his popularity. That guy was obviously The Rock. Now Cena's popularity can in no way compare to that of Austin's but whether you like it or not he has been the face of the company for five years without there being a challenger to his throne. That has changed this year with Orton's popularity challenging that of Cena's at some points during this year.

Also there is the interesting thing that Austin was not involved in a feud for the title when he returned. After he left, he did not have a singles world title match till he faced Rock at Mania 17. He was involved in an intense feud with Triple H prior to that just like Cena is presently involved in a feud with Nexus. Cena has also not participated in a singles title match for quite some time. I also feel that Cena will end his rivalry with Barrett at Elimination Chamber just like Austin finished his with HHH at No Way Out. Cena will then go on to face Orton for the title at Mania 27 in my opinion but I think I'm going off topic so I guess we will just have to wait and see if this comes true.

2) On the heel side we have an obvious comparison. Sheamus lacked credibility at the start of this year but he gained a ton of it when he took Triple H out of action at Extreme Rules. Just like Triple H himself had gained credibility when he ended Mick Foley's career at the beginning of the new millenium.

3) We had a heel champion back in the December of 2000. Interestingly enough that guy was also a first time champion who had not won the title cleanly from the guy who was certainly the hottest face of the company at that point. That guy was Kurt Angle and the guy with whom I am comparing him, not in talent but in the way they have been booked, is The Miz. Just like Kurt's rather long reign gave him a lot of credibility, I think this title reign will be a huge boost to The Miz's career. Just like Kurt I do not think he will headline Wrestlemania 27.( Kurt did not headline Wrestlemania 17.)

4) The next one is a comparison with which a lot of guys might disagree, but I feel that the way Morrison is being pushed reminds me a lot of the way in which Chris Jericho was pushed back in 2000. Jericho was a midcarder till he feuded with Triple H and had a Last Man Standing match with him. I would not say it has done the same amount of good for him, but Morrison's feud with Sheamus has certainly made Morrison look good.

So do you agree with the analogies I have made? Do you think its a concious effort on WWE's part to book in the same manner as they had booked in 2000 or is it merely a coincidence? Is there anything I missed or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Do give your thoughts on this.

 

[The Idiot]

Impressive. Very good post.

I agree with all the similarities. Bringing up HHH, Angle, Rock, Foley, Austin, Jericho and looking at the new crop of talent we have today (10 years later)....it makes me a bit nostalgic because I know we'll never have a roster like that again. The WWE has to work with what they have...and what they have right now you can't complain one bit. There's some excellent performers both in and out of the ring and the storylines they are coming up with are interesting (although I would like to see something more with Shameus and Morrison...something is missing there.)

I like your idea of a face vs face mega match at Wrestlemania between Orton and Cena. But one thing I like better is a World title unification bout between the champs of Smackdown and Raw. The titles need to unify just like the shows (now I'M getting off topic...which I'll save for another time).

Is Morrison the next Jericho? Perhaps. He has the in-ring talent and charisma...but he needs to work on his mic skills obviously. He makes a great face but is missing that extra something to push him into main event status.

Miz and Angle you hit spot on. They both play the oppurtunist heel role extremely well and they are/were successful and became champ. Is Miz the new Angle? One could make that argument.

2000-2001 was a great time and if the WWE can be half that good I think we would all be extremely happy.

 

[Justin Satiable]

There are a lot of similarities, yeah, I will give you that. The big difference is this whole PG-rating thing though. The restrictions on the way people speak really cripples their mic skills, and the thing I really loved about the era you talked about wasn't simply the wrestling, but just the fact that everyone was so damn good at promos!

Well, maybe not eeeeveryone, but even the people that the fans didn't accept at first, such as Kurt Angle, had such presence and feeling on the mic. That is something we really lack nowadays. Cena can work a mic but nobody can go toe-to-toe with him, not even the so-called "second-top face" Randy Orton.

 

[marklouis]

You mean, except for the high ratings and mainstream media attention? Actually, today's WWE is more like the WWE from 1993-1996, pre-Attitude era. There are some talented workers, and some exciting young talent. But ratings & attendance are down, and wrestling is not cool. I don't know if the WWE can get back to that point without serious competition from another company. I watch TNA, & I like some of the things they do, but they are nowhere near what WCW was in the 90s. The WWE will obviously survive, even make money, but the product won't reach its full potential.

One other huge difference: they guys in 2000-2001 were actually pretty good in the ring. The current WWE Champion is one of the worst in-ring workers to ever hold the title.

 

[Rasha]

Good observations, but how these guys are booked doesn't matter much unless they have the talent to capitalize.

The outlines may be similar, but the talent levels aren't close. With Jericho and Undertaker MIA there's nobody with the talent level of Rock, Austin, HHH, and Angle. That disparity has a trickle-down effect which is obvious when you consider a guy like Angle never headlined a Wrestlemania but, as you said, there's a good chance that The Miz could. Edge and Kane are the Main Event feud on Smackdown right now, which would have been either a European Title or Hardcore Title angle during the golden era.

Just look at the mid-card for Wrestlemania 17 in 2001:

Undertaker vs HHH
Chris Jericho vs. William Regal (IC Champ)
Edge/Christian vs. Dudleys vs. Hardy Boyz (Tag Champ TLC match)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
Kane vs. Big Show vs. Raven (Hardcore Champ)
Eddie Guerrero vs Test (Euro Championship)
Tazz, Farooq, Bradshaw vs. Right to Censor

There's really no comparison. I know your post was more about structural similarity, but just don't think that because the WWE may be dusting off some old playbooks that it's going to bring back the greatness of the early part of the decade.

 

[orton0384]

2000 and 2001 are probably the best years WWF/E have ever had. They had a great roster headed by two ultra charismatic faces and they also churned out great storylines. They were the years when it seemed that WWF had discovered the Midas touch.

However if you think about it you will find that there are actually a lot of similarities between the two eras. These are the ones that have come to my mind:

1) The Cena-Orton story is exactly similar to the Rock-Austin story in 2000. Austin had been the undisputed top dog of the company till he got injured and when he returned he found that there was a guy who could challenge and perhaps even supercede his popularity. That guy was obviously The Rock. Now Cena's popularity can in no way compare to that of Austin's but whether you like it or not he has been the face of the company for five years without there being a challenger to his throne. That has changed this year with Orton's popularity challenging that of Cena's at some points during this year.

Also there is the interesting thing that Austin was not involved in a feud for the title when he returned. After he left, he did not have a singles world title match till he faced Rock at Mania 17. He was involved in an intense feud with Triple H prior to that just like Cena is presently involved in a feud with Nexus. Cena has also not participated in a singles title match for quite some time. I also feel that Cena will end his rivalry with Barrett at Elimination Chamber just like Austin finished his with HHH at No Way Out. Cena will then go on to face Orton for the title at Mania 27 in my opinion but I think I'm going off topic so I guess we will just have to wait and see if this comes true.

2) On the heel side we have an obvious comparison. Sheamus lacked credibility at the start of this year but he gained a ton of it when he took Triple H out of action at Extreme Rules. Just like Triple H himself had gained credibility when he ended Mick Foley's career at the beginning of the new millenium.

3) We had a heel champion back in the December of 2000. Interestingly enough that guy was also a first time champion who had not won the title cleanly from the guy who was certainly the hottest face of the company at that point. That guy was Kurt Angle and the guy with whom I am comparing him, not in talent but in the way they have been booked, is The Miz. Just like Kurt's rather long reign gave him a lot of credibility, I think this title reign will be a huge boost to The Miz's career. Just like Kurt I do not think he will headline Wrestlemania 27.( Kurt did not headline Wrestlemania 17.)

4) The next one is a comparison with which a lot of guys might disagree, but I feel that the way Morrison is being pushed reminds me a lot of the way in which Chris Jericho was pushed back in 2000. Jericho was a midcarder till he feuded with Triple H and had a Last Man Standing match with him. I would not say it has done the same amount of good for him, but Morrison's feud with Sheamus has certainly made Morrison look good.

So do you agree with the analogies I have made? Do you think its a concious effort on WWE's part to book in the same manner as they had booked in 2000 or is it merely a coincidence? Is there anything I missed or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

Do give your thoughts on this.

Good Post however I must point out and disagree with a few points.

1.)The story involving Rock and Austin did see Austin return from injury to feud with Triple H and Rikishi and then go on to win the Royal Rumble and then win Wrestlemania after finishing his feud with Triple H at No Way Out first. I cannot see how the stories are similar emotionally or mentally as someone returning from injury to win the Rumble is a whole different feeling than someone just returning from injury.

On this same point are you referring to Orton's shoulder injury? Or did Cena have an injury that shelved him for a while off TV I do not know about in the past year? I cannot honestly see the comparison here. The rest is speculation Cena will do what you posted. Go on to Mania to win etc etc etc.

2.)I do not like or respect Triple H that highly however, I can say that he was very well established in my eyes before the Foley career ender(that had to happen a couple times mind you)He had already beaten Foley numerous times before that as a DX member and as a solo superstar in 1996 I believe he held a victory or two over him. The emotion is different because a man's career was on the line but to say he was not established is wrong in my opinion. He also had a feud with Austin and The Rock as well as becoming WWF champion and feuding with the boss himself! In my eyes that means well established to me over Mick Foley, no offense to Mick. His feud with Mr. Foley may have established him in ECW hardcore rules and bleeding almost to death and thumbtacks sense yes. As a legitamite Champion and Superstar not in this guys opinion.

3.) I can see this comparison for what it is sir. However, 99% of that bullet point was just speculation and fortune telling.

4.) I believe a lot of similar things happened the way MoJoJo and Sheamus have feuded and some turned out wrong, some actually have had the same result they are having up to this posting. I cannot see only the Y2J hHh feud being the only comparison from that year. In the Y2J hHh feud he actually won the WWF title from hHh and had a strong fan driven feud that I am currently not seeing between MoJoJo and Shameus.(Yes Shame Us lol sorry always wanted to type that out) It is purely my opinion and speculation.

All in all I believe you had a well thought laid out post, however I do not agree with a lot of it and in my eyes most of the comparisons are very stringy and minor. I wish you well and everyone have a GREAT DAY!

 

[swayscobain]

i can see your point. but not as far as cena/orton = rock/austin...cena wins it all every year period. unfortunately thats as far as the story goes. As for The Miz I wouldnt compare him to Kurt Angel because from what i read he's a heel cena as far as his dedication to promoting the wwe. and then sheamus not like HHH. triple H had the advantage of DX and the Helmsley-McMahon faction to boost his character. Sheamus had two transitional title reigns and will never be pushed as triple h was. at least triple h worked his way up the later and had great fueds with the rock over the IC title. Sheamus jobbed to HHH at WM and still looks weak since he didnt win at a big four PPV where those kind of propelling wins count. morrison needs to be a heel character just bcause that suits him better than a cheesy face that cracks horrible jokes for the kids. jericho had raw charisma that no booker could deny thats why he won countless titles and had the opportunity to beat the rock and austin in the same night to begin a new era in wwf. I doubt wwe would ever book morrison to beat their two security blankets orton and cena in the same night.

 

[nightshifty]

These are really good comparsions. Really damn good. But I got it a little different.
1. Austin/Rock- I would definatly have to say the modern day Austin and Rock is Cena and Edge. I think their rivalry is more personally than Orton/Cena. And they have fought so many more times and they have fought at 'mania unlike Orton/Cena.
2.I do see alot of similarities with HHH and Sheamus, but I do see alot of differences.
3. The Miz and Kurt Angle, this really made me think. I can see where you are coming from, but I seriously think Jack Swagger is the new Angle. I know Swagger isn't as popular as Angle that is because creative isn't making a new Kurt Angle they are trying to make Jack Swagger more of himself.
4. Ok Jericho and Morrison, I really like this but Morrison cannot touch Jericho's mic work. Jericho is in the top 5 of greatest mic skills of all time. So the cloest thing I see to a young good mic skills is The Miz.
2000-2001 were great years of wrestling. Awesome superstars awesome matches. Personally I think the only way we can relive years like this again would be when WWE, TNA, and ROH all merge. If you think about it that is the reason why WWF was so good back in 2000-2001 was because all the good ECW and WCW wrestlers went to WWF. It would be awesome to go through another Era like that.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I know your post was more about structural similarity

Yes this is what my post was about. I was talking about how similar the booking pattern these days is to the booking pattern of 2000-2001.

On this same point are you referring to Orton's shoulder injury? Or did Cena have an injury that shelved him for a while off TV I do not know about in the past year? I cannot honestly see the comparison here. The rest is speculation Cena will do what you posted. Go on to Mania to win etc etc etc.

I am talking niether of Orton's injury nor of Cena's but merely of the current situation at hand. There are two very popular babyfaces at this moment in the WWE who are competing for the top babyface spot which was exactly the case back in late 2000 when Ausstin returned from injury. I said myself that niether Cena's nor Orton's star power is comparable to that of Rock or Austin's. That is also the reason why it took Austin to be injured and absent from WWF for a while for The Rock to rise. Because if Austin had been available in 2000, it might have hindered Rock's rise to superstardom.

But as we know that Orton almost became the top babyface of the company inspite of Cena wrestling actively the entire time. But the situation nowadays is just like I mentioned. There are two immensely popular babyfaces vying for the top spot in the company.

Also I did write that part of what I was writing was speculation on my behalf.

I do not like or respect Triple H that highly however, I can say that he was very well established in my eyes before the Foley career ender(that had to happen a couple times mind you)He had already beaten Foley numerous times before that as a DX member and as a solo superstar in 1996 I believe he held a victory or two over him. The emotion is different because a man's career was on the line but to say he was not established is wrong in my opinion. He also had a feud with Austin and The Rock as well as becoming WWF champion and feuding with the boss himself! In my eyes that means well established to me over Mick Foley, no offense to Mick. His feud with Mr. Foley may have established him in ECW hardcore rules and bleeding almost to death and thumbtacks sense yes. As a legitamite Champion and Superstar not in this guys opinion.

Once again you are wrong. Triple H, when he became champion did not have a whole lot of credibility. Some rated him as a poor worker and maybe rightly so as he had had only one great match at that point in his career and that was the ladder match against Rock at Summerslam. His rivalry with Foley is what made him the Game. He showed that he could deliver the goods as the champion.

Similar is the case of Sheamus. His feud with Triple H and ultimately taking The Game out of action gave him more credibility than his title run had given him.

However, 99% of that bullet point was just speculation and fortune telling.

Again part of it is speculation but a lot of it is true. Angle was a first time heel champion at this point in 2000 just like the Miz is. Even their characters, as whiney bitchy heels, are somewhat similar. The only thing is everyone knew that Kurt was a great wrestler mostly due to his amateur background while the jury is still out on Miz's in ring capability.

Still you cannot disagree with the fact that the way Angle had been booked and the way Miz is being booked is somewhat similar.

I believe a lot of similar things happened the way MoJoJo and Sheamus have feuded and some turned out wrong, some actually have had the same result they are having up to this posting. I cannot see only the Y2J hHh feud being the only comparison from that year. In the Y2J hHh feud he actually won the WWF title from hHh and had a strong fan driven feud that I am currently not seeing between MoJoJo and Shameus.(Yes Shame Us lol sorry always wanted to type that out) It is purely my opinion and speculation

Like you said this is your opinion. Also while I do not think Morrison is as good as Jericho either in the ring or on the mic, the way they are being pushed is similar. That is the only point I wanted to make.

 

[orton0384]

Yes this is what my post was about. I was talking about how similar the booking pattern these days is to the booking pattern of 2000-2001.



I am talking niether of Orton's injury nor of Cena's but merely of the current situation at hand. There are two very popular babyfaces at this moment in the WWE who are competing for the top babyface spot which was exactly the case back in late 2000 when Ausstin returned from injury. I said myself that niether Cena's nor Orton's star power is comparable to that of Rock or Austin's. That is also the reason why it took Austin to be injured and absent from WWF for a while for The Rock to rise. Because if Austin had been available in 2000, it might have hindered Rock's rise to superstardom.

But as we know that Orton almost became the top babyface of the company inspite of Cena wrestling actively the entire time. But the situation nowadays is just like I mentioned. There are two immensely popular babyfaces vying for the top spot in the company.

Also I did write that part of what I was writing was speculation on my behalf.



Once again you are wrong. Triple H, when he became champion did not have a whole lot of credibility. Some rated him as a poor worker and maybe rightly so as he had had only one great match at that point in his career and that was the ladder match against Rock at Summerslam. His rivalry with Foley is what made him the Game. He showed that he could deliver the goods as the champion.

Similar is the case of Sheamus. His feud with Triple H and ultimately taking The Game out of action gave him more credibility than his title run had given him.



Again part of it is speculation but a lot of it is true. Angle was a first time heel champion at this point in 2000 just like the Miz is. Even their characters, as whiney bitchy heels, are somewhat similar. The only thing is everyone knew that Kurt was a great wrestler mostly due to his amateur background while the jury is still out on Miz's in ring capability.

Still you cannot disagree with the fact that the way Angle had been booked and the way Miz is being booked is somewhat similar.



Like you said this is your opinion. Also while I do not think Morrison is as good as Jericho either in the ring or on the mic, the way they are being pushed is similar. That is the only point I wanted to make.

I suppose we can agree to disagree. However, I will reply to some things I still do not understand or agree with.

"Also I did write that part of what I was writing was speculation on my behalf" it is good speculation however, it has not happened yet..maybe. The issue is you said in the OP that the stories are exactly the same and to me they are not. You did not quote all of my reply to that part of the post which was the emotion and basis of that storyline. The Rock and Stone Cold were vying for the WWF Championship in 2001 from early to late not so much in the year 2000 since SCSA was MIA until September and did not have a Championship match at all in the year 2000. SCSA had won the rumble ended a personal feud with Triple H and made a heel turn. I do not see these things happening between Orton and Cena but its my opnion clashing with your perhaps

"Once again you are wrong. Triple H, when he became champion did not have a whole lot of credibility. Some rated him as a poor worker and maybe rightly so as he had had only one great match at that point in his career and that was the ladder match against Rock at Summerslam. His rivalry with Foley is what made him the Game. He showed that he could deliver the goods as the champion.

Similar is the case of Sheamus. His feud with Triple H and ultimately taking The Game out of action gave him more credibility than his title run had given him."
He had held the WWF title twice before retiring Mister Foley. again you left out a major part of my reply. I do believe it showed he had fortitude in taking on a hardcore match however, i do not believe this put him over as being credible as I feel he was credible before hand. He may not have been the best heel but he was a man who defeated Foley for it on a RAW and then beat many others in a six pack challenge and even defended it successfully against Stone Cold. This was all before he retired Mister Foley. I'm not going to say your wrong I'm just pointing out my view and facts. I cannot see Sheamus being more credible for taking out the game since he has not done too much since then. His Fatal four Way match was marred by Nexus interference and His victory over Cena in a steel cage was the only thing of value he has accomplished since then. If anything his win over Cena was what would have given him legitmacy but even that is not a real match. As a street fight to a cage match can be.

"Again part of it is speculation but a lot of it is true. Angle was a first time heel champion at this point in 2000 just like the Miz is. Even their characters, as whiney bitchy heels, are somewhat similar. The only thing is everyone knew that Kurt was a great wrestler mostly due to his amateur background while the jury is still out on Miz's in ring capability.

Still you cannot disagree with the fact that the way Angle had been booked and the way Miz is being booked is somewhat similar. "

The Miz and Kurt Angle both being heel and becoming champion in December are the same. The way they did it and their character and situation are night and day however, as well as The Miz JUST becoming champion you cannot make that comparison too soon but you did say you were speculating. However, The Miz had a Money in the Bank as well as Alex Riley his character is a cocky arrogant hip and suave young man. Kurt Angle was booked as an all american american who was a goody two shoes and did not have a briefcase. Kurt Angle won his title at a PPV. The Miz had cashed in after a RAW main event. Both are very very different.

"Like you said this is your opinion. Also while I do not think Morrison is as good as Jericho either in the ring or on the mic, the way they are being pushed is similar. That is the only point I wanted to make"

Once again you left out a Huge part of my reply and argument. This booking of Y2J and hHh was over the WWF Championship. In your OP you stated Y2J was simply a mid carder until his feud with hHh however Mojo is still a mid carder to this day and it is still speculation of what will come of this. I cannot see the similar booking because of one important factor missing. The WWF/E Championship. Their push is different as Y2J was more of a test of waters to see if he could indeed be champion as he did win the title albeit stricken from records and only for a short time. He went on to have more title shots shortly after. Mojo has only had a few title shots but not since starting this feud with sheamus. I see it more as a feud than a push.

All in all I believe we can agree to disagree however I am not about calling you wrong and putting you down just giving you facts and my opinions.