Can Someone Explain the Phrase "That's Insulting to My Intelligence"?

[Ambiguous Turd]

I remember back in 1992 when WWE featured Papa Shango as a witch doctor type character who "terrorized WWE stars" in particular the Ultimate Warrior, by using his "magic" and placing "curses" on his enemies.

When I saw the episode of Superstars where Shango meditated and the Warrior fell off the apron in pain, while throwing up in the backstage area, I thought to myself "That is insulting to my intelligence". I thought "how can WWE honestly expect me to believe that Shango really cursed the Warrior and that Warrior was really throwing up?" I thought "how can WWE expect me to believe that Shango causes Black goo to eminate from his victim's arms and faces?"

I read in WWF Magazine at the time that "Afa was the head of a tribe in Samoa, and convinced two of his fiercest warriors to come to America to form a Tag Team in the WWF to be called The Headshrinkers. I thought to myself "that is insulting to my intelligence."

That was then, and this is now.

The difference was back then, everything was in kayfabe and the WWE tried to fool its fans into thinking wrestling was legitimate. The difference today is that WWE expects its fans to know and understand that the business is a work. Times have changed.

So my question to the IWC is when I see the phrase tossed around that certain characters and storylines are "insulting to my intelligence", I become puzzled. The point is that we know wrestling is a work and we accept it. So if that is the case, and you realize you are watching a scripted show, how exactly is anything on your screen "insulting your intelligence"? How do you feel, exactly, that your intelligence is being "insulted"?

Please explain.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm one of the most prominent users of this phrase and this is how I justify using it: think of it like this: we've all seen movies before that blew us away. Think of say the Godfather. Very few people will say that's a bad movie. The story, the acting, the characters, the action, all of it blends together to make an amazing film. On the other end of the spectrum though you've seen terrible movies as well. You've seen movies, typically comedies, where you think to yourself how in the world is this considered funny? Only an idiot would find something like this funny.

As wrestling fans, we're expected to be treated with respect. While we know what we're watching is scripted, we shouldn't be treated like apes that are fascinated by flashly shiny things. We should be expected to handle characters and stories that are intricate and complex. Take Jericho for example during his The Wrestler angle. That whole story was intriguing because it made you think. Was Jericho right or were the Legends right? Should they step aside or should tradition be respected? You can look at it from different perspectives and get different answers. It made yout hink and you could tell that both Jericho and the writers had put a lot of time and effort into it.

Now take something like Santino. A man dresses up like a woman. There's no thought put into that. It's simply him out there making an idiot out of himself. More or less you could see the writers saying "well, we know he's a funny guy, so go be funny." That's the extent of the effort that's put into it. I think in the end it comes down to one thing: how hard are the writers and workers willing to work to entertain us. If they work hard, we can tell as well as understand it. If there's no effort put into it, we don't like it because we think they don't care enough about us or think highly enough of us to think we'll notice. In the end, it comes down to effort.

 

[Blade]

It's a phrase that the IWC love to throw around, no doubt.
It just seems to me to be more of an excuse for complainers to find something wrong with WWE/TNA etc.

"The fact that I'm supposed to take CM Punk seriously as a champion is insulting to my intelligence"
"John Cena beating the Big Show despite all the injuries is insulting to my intelligence"
"I'm supposed to believe that Jeff Hardy wrestles with face paint!? That's insulting to my intelligence!"

These are some of the arguments I've used that line being used on, and basically it just seems to be a masked way of saying "I don't like that, but have no real reason for why it's a bad idea..."

Wrestling as a whole is insulting to our collective intelligences, when you think about it. We're supposed to believe that these guys are really beating the crap out of eachother, putting their own careers on the line in some cases as a career? Is Vince Mcmahon trying to fool us into thinking it's all real? No, that's absolutely ridiculous. We're not supposed to believe it's real, we just choose ignore the fact that it isn't real. That's the whole reason it's so entertaining, it's not real. It's like a movie or tv show. Because it's not real, I can watch these athletes do some great stuff and not have to worry about how hurt they are. In some areas of life, reality ruins everything. Wrestling is one of those areas.

 

[Miko]

I find very little in wrestling insults my intelligence, the fact is, when you start thinking things like "John Cena's too injured to beat Big Show that's just ******ed" is when you've become a total fucking marky ******, someone who thinks wrestling should be depicted as realistically as possible.

Wrestling is itself a fucking stupid sport, there is nothing realistic about it, it is all about people like John Cena overcoming the odds that are The Big Show. It's just characters running around pretending to do moves to each other, I find that when you veiw wrestling like this, then it becomes much more enjoyable and far less insulting to your intelligence.

 

[finneycom1]

I dont think I have ever used the term, "insulting my intellegence" when it comes to speaking about professional wrestling. Like you guys have said, we all know it is a "controlled environment." Everything is scripted, no one is really fighting, it is just entertainment. Someone who says that wrestling is insulting their intellegence, obviously is not familiar with professional wrestling. Maybe someone who has never watched wrestling and watch it for the first time may say, "This is insulting my intellengence. I'm I supposed to think they are actually fighting?"

You know what really burns my ass? Not to get a little off the subject, but, people who watch wrestling and use phrases like that. Then turn right around and watch all the other bullshit that is on t.v. People will talk negatively about wrestling then go turn the t.v. on "Rock of Love", Flava of Love, and I Love New York. Or The Hills and other shit like that. And they think those shows are not scripted. Please!!! Now those shows "insult my intellegence!!!!"

 

[thesacredcow]

Now take something like Santino. A man dresses up like a woman. There's no thought put into that. It's simply him out there making an idiot out of himself. More or less you could see the writers saying "well, we know he's a funny guy, so go be funny." That's the extent of the effort that's put into it. I think in the end it comes down to one thing: how hard are the writers and workers willing to work to entertain us. If they work hard, we can tell as well as understand it. If there's no effort put into it, we don't like it because we think they don't care enough about us or think highly enough of us to think we'll notice. In the end, it comes down to effort.

First off I agreed with every thing you said up to this point. I just really don't think you can really use Santino as an example, because I really don't think his character and this angle do insult your intelligence. He's been built as a completely idiotic, over the top character, so the idea that he'd dress in drag to get on the Wrestlemania card makes sense. And maybe the writers didn't put a whole lot of effort into it, but if a guy can go out an entertain people (and low brow as he is, Santino does entertain me) without a writers help, then all the better. I'd rather a guy who can work on the fly than someone who relies on writers to feed them material. And do you honestly think the Raw writers had that much involvement in the Jericho/Legends angle? Maybe the basic idea for it, but I guarantee you the majority of it was Jericho.

Remember when the Hollys came out with the scales and were announced as 'allegedly over 400 pounds?' That wasn't insulting to your intelligence because it made sense for the characters they were playing. Low brow? Yes. Insulting to my intelligence? No.

 

[Deathvalley]

I dont think I have ever used the term, "insulting my intellegence" when it comes to speaking about professional wrestling. Like you guys have said, we all know it is a "controlled environment." Everything is scripted, no one is really fighting, it is just entertainment. Someone who says that wrestling is insulting their intellegence, obviously is not familiar with professional wrestling. Maybe someone who has never watched wrestling and watch it for the first time may say, "This is insulting my intellengence. I'm I supposed to think they are actually fighting?"

You know what really burns my ass? Not to get a little off the subject, but, people who watch wrestling and use phrases like that. Then turn right around and watch all the other bullshit that is on t.v. People will talk negatively about wrestling then go turn the t.v. on "Rock of Love", Flava of Love, and I Love New York. Or The Hills and other shit like that. And they think those shows are not scripted. Please!!! Now those shows "insult my intellegence!!!!"

I agree with this statement completely. People complain about wrestling being fake and yet they watch crap like Rock of Love and crap like that. People like that put true meaning to the word Hypocrite!!!

 

[Heel?]

Why does WWE have ridiculous things like men in drag and voodoo witch doctors? I think it's because WWE tries to play to everyone. WWE is like a circus show and the fans relate to that because if someone doesn't like the clowns, they might like the acrobats. If they don't like the juggler, they might like the elephants.

That's why there are ridiculous characters such as Santino, because somebody somewhere likes that type of thing. I myself don't mind it because, although he can't wrestle, he can act and his character is funny to watch. I see it as, if I'm watching an episode of RAW, ol' Vinnie Mac wants to make me laugh, cry or get up on the edge of my seat...as long as it's one of them...he did his job correctly.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

I don't think it's so much the characters they want us to believe that makes it insulting to our intelligence, we all know that is part of wrestling. I think what is insulting is the sudden face/heel turns (not always i'll explain later) and the fact that they sometimes completely ignore a wrestler's past. That is what insults my intelligence. I'm all for believing papa shango is a real voodoo doctor or Afa got two crazy samoans over to wrestle rather than his own son and nephew. What frustrates me is things like watching macho man commentate a match of ricky steamboats and act like he's a new wrestler and they have no history together. You can't un-ring a bell and you can't expect us to forget what we've seen. I mean I get there is a new generation of fans and so to them macho not knowing steamboat works but there is still a generation of fans that have stuck with the product and to them it's just insulting. As for the heel/face turns, sometimes they are great and a huge swerve, but sometimes they are just ridiculous and its like are we really supposed to believe these guys are friends now after just fueding i.e. shawn and hunter's on and off again relationship. That is just absurd how often they are friends/foes, just seems like whenever they need a good match have em fighting each other or team up. That is insulting because it goes beyond the take wrestling for what its worth aspect. But i think the worst is the ignoring history. A tv show can recycle an actor who had a small role and give em a bigger one later but what they can't do is take an actor who's already made a name and bring em back later with a different name and no relation to the previous character and expect people to not notice/remember...same goes for wrestling.

 

[pjsdoughboy]

"Insulting my " Is someone who wants to believe a dead guy is wrestling and can not be beaten at wrestlemaina. Also have him wrestle in a buried alive match. How can this be if one of them is supposed to be dead already? Wouldn't he be buried dead I think this is a one sided match.

But Santino/Santina Can not be "Insulting my intelligence" because a guy can dress in drag and wrestle and even if you can't see the humor in this I do so maybe some people have to take a step back and think (Am I over thinking this a little to much for my own good)

Its Like Star Trek or Star Wars there are no Klingon's or Wookie's in the real world! but I didn't say What!! How can their be a 7 foot wookie if there is no bigfoot? what about a 600+ year old green jedi master or a garbage can that talk's to a blinged out tin man ???

Easy it's all entrainment and you people that have your "insulting my intelligence" syndrome Need to suspend reality while you watch any or all of it or you need to just stop watching all together but anyone who has their intelligence insulted by anything along these line is just looking for something to complain about or want's someone's attention and that's all they are doing it for. Or they really have No intelligence at all http://forums.wrestlezone.com/images/smilies/doh.gif

 

[pjsdoughboy]

"Insulting my " Is someone who wants to believe a dead guy is wrestling and can not be beaten at wrestlemaina. Also have him wrestle in a buried alive match. How can this be if one of them is supposed to be dead already? Wouldn't he be buried dead I think this is a one sided match.

But Santino/Santina Can not be "Insulting my intelligence" because a guy can dress in drag and wrestle and even if you can't see the humor in this I do so maybe some people have to take a step back and think (Am I over thinking this a little to much for my own good)

Its Like Star Trek or Star Wars there are no Klingon's or Wookie's in the real world! but I didn't say What!! How can their be a 7 foot wookie if there is no bigfoot? Or what about a 600+ year old green jedi master and a garbage can that talk's to a blinged out tin man ???

It's easy it's all entrainment and you people that have your "insulting my intelligence" syndrome Need to suspend reality while you watch any or all of it or you need to just stop watching all together but anyone who has their intelligence insulted by anything along these line is just looking for something to complain about or want's someone's attention and that's all they are doing it for. Or they really have No intelligence at all

 

[The GR8 1]

In the world of professional wrestling there is no real "insulting my intelligence" moment with only one major exception to this... When Chris Jericho says your an idiot, he is clearly insulting your intelligence.

 

[dx_cena]

Well it was insulting to my intelligence when Umaga just came out of nowhere and started talking and the announcers didn't even acknowledge it like this is normal for him to do!?!

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

"Insulting my " Is someone who wants to believe a dead guy is wrestling and can not be beaten at wrestlemaina. Also have him wrestle in a buried alive match. How can this be if one of them is supposed to be dead already? Wouldn't he be buried dead I think this is a one sided match.

But Santino/Santina Can not be "Insulting my intelligence" because a guy can dress in drag and wrestle and even if you can't see the humor in this I do so maybe some people have to take a step back and think (Am I over thinking this a little to much for my own good)

Its Like Star Trek or Star Wars there are no Klingon's or Wookie's in the real world! but I didn't say What!! How can their be a 7 foot wookie if there is no bigfoot? Or what about a 600+ year old green jedi master and a garbage can that talk's to a blinged out tin man ???

It's easy it's all entrainment and you people that have your "insulting my intelligence" syndrome Need to suspend reality while you watch any or all of it or you need to just stop watching all together but anyone who has their intelligence insulted by anything along these line is just looking for something to complain about or want's someone's attention and that's all they are doing it for. Or they really have No intelligence at all

And that is an excellent synopsis. It's basically like the people who watch wrestling and say this phrase on the surface appear to accept that they are watching a TV program, but at the same time ... don't really want to accept that they are watching something that is fake. And because of that, we now have the most stale, bland, boring product the WWE has ever produced.

I truly don't understand why these individuals hold wrestling to a different standard than any other action/tv drama.


Wrestling is not real. Never will be real. So, why treat it like it is real?

If you want to watch real fighting, then watch UFC ... instead of dressing the wrestling product completely down so that all you are watching is fake, scripted athletic bouts. Because that's all it pretty much is, nowadays.

Furthermore, wrestling feuds aren't real. Just like feuds in any other TV show are not real. Talk shows are not real. Jerry Springer is not real. Therefore, don't expect the wrestlers to act like the feuds they have are real. All they are doing is putting on a show. Why is that so hard for some of you to accept?

The problem isn't so much as "having your intelligence insulted". The problem is that some smarks still have difficulty accepting the fact that wrestling isn't real, and therefore want it to act like it is.

 

[TimAH]

I think things that are insulting to someones intelligence are things that make no sense in the fictional world the WWE has created. Things like totally forgetting the history between two guys, or a bad ass face whos unbeatable, makes a heel turn and instantly is a heel who is afraid of everyone. WWE obviously doesnt play by the worlds rules, but to be entertaining it needs to play by the rules its established for itself.

 

[instantkarmaVA]

a couple examples of insulting my intelligence.....

Rick Steiner having an argument with Chucky the killer doll on Nitro. He was in the ring and the doll was on a video screen.

When Steve Austin dropped Triple H,who was in a car, with a crane.

Big Show throwing Cena through a spot light..

Anytime the WWE uses celebirty look-alikes for certain skits.

and finally... The TNA announce team.. I feel like I die a little each time I listen to them..

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

a couple examples of insulting my intelligence.....

Rick Steiner having an argument with Chucky the killer doll on Nitro. He was in the ring and the doll was on a video screen.

How is this "insulting" to your intelligence?

When Steve Austin dropped Triple H,who was in a car, with a crane

How is this "insulting" to your intelligence?

Big Show throwing Cena through a spot light..

How is this "insulting" to your intelligence?

Anytime the WWE uses celebirty look-alikes for certain skits.

I can understand where that may be insulting to someone's intelligence, if they legitimately portray the actor as real. That was pretty much what they did at Wrestlemania 10 with the Bill Clinton look-a-like they used. And they didn't seem to go out of their way to make it like a comedy portrayal that it wasn't him. All subsequent times they used that guy, though, it was done clearly for comedic purposes.

and finally... The TNA announce team.. I feel like I die a little each time I listen to them..

Still not seeing how that is "insulting" your intelligence.

I tend to think that this phrase seems to be generally misused in the IWC, as pointed out earlier. None of that stuff is truly "insulting" anyone's intelligence. Rather, people simply aren't fans of the angles in question.

 

[instantkarmaVA]

Falling 100 feet in a car or getting thrown into a spot light and surviving. That insults my intelligence.. IRL they would be killed and people would be arrested..blah blah blah. There would be real life reprecussions if some of the shit they do but nothing happens. That in****s my intelligence. I just don't think those kind of stunts work in wrestling. I feel they are stupid. I get that uncomfortable "why?" feeling.

 

[Scott Free]

I truly don't understand why these individuals hold wrestling to a different standard than any other action/tv drama.

I don't hold wrestling to a different standard, that's the problem. If I'm watching Lost, I would feel insulted if they went and turned Sawyer into a crossdresser without the hint of a motivation or they come up with some stupid, illogical reason for it happening, and sorry, I don't buy the "It's just entertainment." I think Klunderbunker explains it much better than I can, the fact that it is "just entertainment" doesn't excuse it from good writing.

The problem isn't so much as "having your intelligence insulted". The problem is that some smarks still have difficulty accepting the fact that wrestling isn't real, and therefore want it to act like it is.

Look, there's a difference between real and realistic. You don't believe me ? Then ask the wrestlers, who have to try very hard to make it seem realistic, and that's the payoff. Why should the set-up be unrealistic or illogical then ? I call it insulting to my intelligence when they use crappy writing to justify a realistic staged fight, that's my definition of it.

Peace out.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I suppose "insulting one's intelligence" occurs when the often-quoted "suspension of disbelief" is taken too far, or into directions that just won't work.

I recently actually experienced this with a movie, but I'll get to that in a second...

Now we all know, the famed "suspension of disbelief" is the single one thing that makes wrestling - and just all other forms of theatrical entertainment, be it TV shows or movies, or plays in a theatre - work; you know that the things you see are not "real", but only acted (and I see no difference here between a wrestling show and a regular action movie - both "pretend" to portray "real" events, but at all times, the viewer knows that it is just make-believe) - but the viewer accepts the events shown as "real" for the time being, and thus is drawn into the world and story portrayed, and receives entertainment for the suspension of his disbelief. He chooses to ignore his knowledge of those things being "unreal", and is entertained in return. It's as simple as that.

However, even suspension of disbelief only goes so far. Even in good action movies, you sometimes get to see scenes that will make you smile involuntarily, or outright shake your head. Take as example Die Hard 4 maybe, where a car is thrown at McLane and the kid at high speed, but they manage to duck behind other cars, and are miraculously saved; or when later on, McLane fights a freakin' Harrier jet with his bare hands. Realistic? Hell no. And while some people may be willing to accept that while suspending their disbelief, others might think it "going too far", being too ridiculous. Happened to me recently when seeing the movie "Déja Vu" with Denzel Washington. Good lord, what a heapload of crap that was; simply because it was overstretching my willingness to suspend my disbelief; the setting the move was in combined with the storyline and explanation of it together just didn't work for me. Those of you who know the movie will probably know what I'm talking about; I'll not get too elaborately into that now.

And in wrestling, it's the same. Once a wrestling viewer gets accustomed to the strange "rules" that reign the wrestling world - like the miraculous comebacks after beatings that would in truth actually kill people if they were real, the awfully fragile referees who will go unconscious for minutes if one of the wrestlers only barely touches them in some way, or bumps into them (well, I don't go unconscious if a bodybuilder bumps into me on the street, right?), and all those things - the viewer is able to suspend his disbelief in these things, accept them as part of the world wrestling storylines are situated in. So far, so fine.

But every once in awhile, they will play a twist or a plot that just doesn't make sense - not even in that world - and for me, that happens especially then, when they try to make things "over-real"; take for example the times when people suddenly start invoking "restraining orders" against certain wrestlers. I mean, year in and year out, we have people randomly attacking each other backstage on shows etc, and no one seems to be able to do something about it. But then, once in a while, someone just places a restraining order, and that works? I mean, why then would not all wrestlers seek restraining orders all the time while in a feud, just to keep their opponents from their backs? This is what might be insulting to my intelligence.

Now while I am willing to accept the pecularities of the wrestling world - such as the above mentioned comebacks and fragile referees etc. - I usually feel a bit intellectually insulted when the storylines try to implement elements from the "real" world, the world I live in; because while I cannot claim to know all the "rules" of the wrestling world (since they can be changed by the creators of that world at all times), I still understand (or at least think I understand) the way things work in "my" world. So as long as wrestling stories stay within their created world, I'm cool with that. But once they try to drag their stories too far into the "real" world, where I know how the mechanics of life, of business, of economy, of human relationships etc... usually "really" work, it might become insulting to my intelligence; because my suspension of disbelief simply cannot go that far.

I also think that different people will have different thresholds here; of course children will much less easily feel intellectually insulted by certain events than adults, simply because they experiences and knowledge about the "real" world are not yet that extensive as that of the average adult. But I think everyone has their intellectual pain threshold, and at some point, wrestling storylines might cross that. For some people, like me, that usually happens when wrestler start threatening to "sue" one another or send someone to prison for attacks... when in their world, people are beating down each other left and right in backstage areas and parking lots, where people are run over by cars and ambulances destroyed by trucks (Hogan/Rock, anyone?) - in the "real" world, people WOULD go to prison for stuff like that, but it just doesn't happen in wrestling - then why should I believe it would mean ANYTHING at all, if one wrestler were to "sue" another because he punched him outside of a match?

I guess it is those inconsistencies that make me feel intellectually insulted; the way the writers often seem to use just the one twist that suits them for the present situation, but do not think about the "bigger picture", about the general set of rules their stories are supposed to go by.

The Cena/Big Show angle is a good example, too. Of course we know miraculous comebacks are quite normal in wrestling. But we are also conditioned to believe that once sufficient damage has been done - when people start limping on crutches to the ring etc - that they will not be able to compete, and if they do, they are too impaired to win. That makes sense to us. But in the recent Cena angle, Cena - who is usually known for his spectacular comebacks that usually outdo the comebacks of everyone else, save maybe for the Undertaker's -was damaged and injured to such an exent, that even by the rules of the wrestling world, he should not have been able to lift the Big Show up the way he did, and afterwards pose as though nothing had happened. And this is where things start to insult your intelligence. I guess just as many others, I would not even had a problem believing Cena could beat Big Show, even in his present condition - maybe by applying the STF. But even in the "world of wrestling", he should not have been able to hit the FU/Attitude Adjustment. He should've attempted it, and broken down under Show's weight... and then, a little later, won by submission. That would've worked. The way they played their angle, and thus violated the standards the writers set themselves in numerous angles before this won, is insulting to people's intelligence.

So, rant is over now lol - maybe I could illustrate my point somehow (if anyone cared to read it, anyway hehe), and maybe some of you will agree with me... anyway, those are my two cents on that. Thanks for reading if you did, haha.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I don't hold wrestling to a different standard, that's the problem. If I'm watching Lost, I would feel insulted if they went and turned Sawyer into a crossdresser without the hint of a motivation or they come up with some stupid, illogical reason for it happening, and sorry, I don't buy the "It's just entertainment." I think Klunderbunker explains it much better than I can, the fact that it is "just entertainment" doesn't excuse it from good writing.

But you kind of touched based on the point I was making.

You said "the fact that it is "just entertainment" doesn't excuse it from good writing".

And I agree whole-heartedly with that. I think there is a difference between good writing and bad writing vs "insulting one's intelligence".

Perhaps WWE "insulted people's intelligence" when they tried to get people to think that wrestling was "real". However, now that those days are gone, and they have admitted that wrestling is entertainment, I don't really see how they are "insulting anyone's intelligence" anymore.

I don't think wrestling angles truly "insult anyone's intelligence" anymore. I don't think that is really the most appropriate phrase to describe someone's displeasure in an a storyline they aren't fans of.

Like as was stated ... there is good writing vs bad writing.

Look, there's a difference between real and realistic. You don't believe me ? Then ask the wrestlers, who have to try very hard to make it seem realistic, and that's the payoff. Why should the set-up be unrealistic or illogical then?

Because the in-ring action is completely different to what goes on outside the ring. I can understand and respect the workers in the business to try to make the in-ring action look as real as possible.

However, the storylines are what is supposed to sell the in-ring action. And that is one of the biggest problems I have nowadays. Because WWE has gone from their tried and true formula of allowing the storylines to sell the action, to now trying to get the in-ring action on weekly TV try to sell even more in-ring action on the PPV's. And that is why few people really look forward to the PPV's anymore.

What is the big deal if storylines are out there, and the WWE becomes like any other soap opera/drama on TV, with complicated and complex storylines? There was a point in time where Vince was all for that kind of thing, and it made for a great product. As a matter of fact, it made for their most exciting product in history with the Attitude Era. Just looking at the enthusiasm level of the crowds back then to the crowds of today ... there simply is no comparison.

People today go to the shows. But you can tell from the crowd reactions that they don't look forward to the show as much, or as enthusiastic about the product at the level they were in the Attitude Era.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being over-the-top in storylines. After all, that is what sells.

The "storylines" they use today, however, are so bland and generic, it isn't even funny. So as stated, Vince simply relies on the action in the ring to sell more action on the PPV's. And that is why I strongly feel is why his numbers have gone down since that time period. Because the storylines and characters over that time gradually became more watered down, and even more watered down, year after year.

So now you can say "your intelligence isn't being insulted" by trying to treat wrestling as a real, legitimate sport. But, at the same time, the enthusiasm level for the product has never been lower, because people simply aren't going to care about the in-ring product, unless you can get them to care about the storylines and characters, first.

I call it insulting to my intelligence when they use crappy writing to justify a realistic staged fight, that's my definition of it.

Peace out.

So what this boils down to then, is a preference in storyline writing, then. I like complex, sometimes over-the-top storylines, with mostly realistic action in the ring.

And, if I am reading you correctly, you like realistic action in the ring, mixed with realistic characters, who are involved in realistic storylines, as well.

Again, the problem I see in that, is that it appears from that mentality, that you want the whole product itself to be real. My question is "why"? That is something I want to deep dive into.

Why do you feel the entire product, matches, storylines, characters, etc. should all be as realistic as possible, when the entire business isn't real, to begin with?

If it is a real fight you are looking for, why not watch "real fighting" like UFC?