Can a good heel be a good face at the same time?

[simonhirst]

I look over the years and see some wrestlers who haved turned face from heel and its actually put me off them. MVP is the latest who has gone from being brash and cocky, to smiling, loving the fans. But the reason why he was getting pops when heel was because fans liked him how they were. To strengthen this point, there are three more examples of this.

Firstly, John Cena. Cena used to be a chaingang soldier, coming in with his raps and attitude. Fans boo him to start with but over time, find him entertaining and like him. Then WWE decide to turn him completely gay, coming out smiling, sticking up for the fans etc.

Batista is the 2nd example. When he was part of evolution, many liked him because he was the animal, the big man, when he turned against HHH, fans loved it, until wwe realised, turned him into a stereotype face and he came out smiling, similiar to cena. Third example is lesnar.

Lesnar exploded onto the scene, destroying all and then beat the rock at summerslam, his heel lasted until heyman turned on him. Then he also came out smiling, turning into a wwe face.

My point is this, The fans started to cheer for them whilst they were still a heel. Now instead of turning them into a face, I think WWE should leave them as they are. Fans like a bit of attitude, a bit of bad ass. You only have to look at Stone Cold to see it can work. I just hate how all up and coming heels turn really gay when they are 'forced' to turn face because the fans love him. anyone agree or have any thoughts?

If they were to leave the heel in his heel character, would this prolong his characters shelf life?

 

[nickbwfc]

You cannot be a heel who the majority of fans cheer. Fans cheer, you become a face.

The fans ultimately decide who is face and who is heel. If a majority of fans start cheering a heel, creative will either make the character act fully as a face or do something nasty in hopes of some boos.

 

[Big Daddy Fool]

I think what you want them to be is more of an anti-hero then a bright-eyed smiling face or a full blown heel. I remember when cena was starting to turn face Michael Hayes had him FU Benoit after a tag match in which he was a face in to give him an edge and to make him more like Austin. Then i remember vince had them edit that out and it never made television.

I agree with the fact that its annoying that they go with a complete personality overhaul. I dont nearly enjoy MVP as much as i did before cause it seems like hes lost some edge. I used to really enjoy cena and then well he became what he is now.

 

[Chrisjeffers]

Cena has no hope! that is nothing more then a money making persona....
Though its funny how you mentioned SCSA.... Cause I always thought of Orton as the next rock.... but he's alot more like Austin. he is a heel that gets cheered.... If Orton turned face without changing his game plan it would work....
Insted of a stunner its an RKO or a kick in the head!

 

[HHHDiedForOurSins]

I hate when they completely change someone's gimmicks just because they turn face/heel, obviously the likes of MVP can't come out and rip on the fans now that's he's a face, but come on...all the smiling and slapping the fans hands, that works for guys like Jeff Hardy & Rey Mysterio, but it doesn't fit MVP's gimmick, he comes across as corny and it's this type of thing that will make the fans turn on him if he's put in a high profile match unless he brings back more of an edge to his character.

The worst example I can think of is Austin, he was the biggest bad ass in the company for years, then all of a sudden he turns heel and the next night he's running from fights, tapping out to The Rock's sharpshooter after 3 seconds, basically just looking like a pussy, I realise they have to change certain characteristics to get the fans to react the way they want but I think they could do a much better job.

 

[nickbwfc]

Cena has no hope! that is nothing more then a money making persona....
Though its funny how you mentioned SCSA.... Cause I always thought of Orton as the next rock.... but he's alot more like Austin. he is a heel that gets cheered.... If Orton turned face without changing his game plan it would work....
Insted of a stunner its an RKO or a kick in the head!

So he sticks to current game plan, then what? Fans suddenly start to cheer him for punting people in the head?! Christ the reason he got cheered because it was against HHH, because people were getting sick of HHH. NOT because they saw him as anti hero or the next Stone Cold.

 

[patdsez]

Everyone loves to hate on HHH, but I'll say this - he's one of the more successful heels to baby (back to heel back to baby to heel to baby) ever. He didn't change much of his attitude when he became a top face and I think his inevitable heel turn will do big business as well.

 

[SenorAmazing]

The number one example is the Rock. In his final heel turn he was singing songs about how shitty the cities were and he was still being cheered. The Rock and Austin are some of the only ones who could get cheered as a heel and face without being the classic throw-up smiling face. I would also include shawn michaels and the undertaker.

 

[RickDotMark.13]

Burke, i totally agree, MVP coming out and doin the ballin thing more, playin to the crowd, is corny. Look at Kennedy, he was WAY better as a heel, then he started getting a little corny as well when he took the turn. Stone Cold and the Rock could do the face thing but still manage not to sell out to cheap pops. By the way, whats up with the Morrison face turn? I'm interested to see how that turns out.

 

[slimmshady]

It was the same for masked kane. When he was heel, mostly during his early debut, a lot of people cheered him because of his unique techniques such as his pyro from the three corners of the ring and obviously the mystery behind his mask. Until he faced undertaker for the first time, that is. But I've got to say that dead man Inc. really got an enormous reception when he truely became big evil. However, John Cena is got to be an exception. When he was the doctor of thuganomics, Cena was booed at first but later on people loved the character. But he has endured an enormous transformation to the person he was before (in the ring of course).

 

[Tim_Seraphim]

Heels get cheered when they are bad heels; plain and simple. Actually, I'm sick of the whole "we need to hate the heels" routine. If that's true, why make heel merchandise, and have heels doing autograph sessions? Real heels don't have fans to buy shirts, or sign autographs because the fans suck. Screw the fans, they can stick it, brother!! *heel turn* I miss the days of villains being pelted by garbage while swimming in a chorus of boos.

 

[broncsfan1985]

There is an art to being a good heel. There is a reason why Chris Jericho is an excellent heel, he angers the people who are stupid and do not know the difference between a good match (most of his) and a crappy match, any match with John Cena other than the one he had on Raw recently with you guessed it Jericho. The people you have to anger are those fans under 13 who unless properly taught, Mcmahon could make anyone love (I was a huge Hulkamaniac as a child so I fell in this target audience look at his matches now and although you feel for him with the way his body aches that is part of the business!!!! they are boring) and those idiots who like the fact that although not as much now still think Cena's gimmick of being the white guy who loves things that are not marketed towards him, is still entertaining. Jericho is booed by the morons and loved by people like me who think he could have a good match with anyone. He plays up that he thinks people are hypocrites but if you meet him as I have he is a cool dude, who justs wants to do what he loves then go home and be with his family. Although thats seems hypocritical itself, that is called wrestling. You play it up with the cameras on to sell tickets and merchandise but once he is out in the real world Jericho does what he needs to.