Bobby Heenan and the nWo

[BretHitmanHart92]

I've had this discussion several times but I wanted to know what some of you thought about it on this forum. I really think that in '96 when Hogan turned heel it would have been awesome for Heenan to become pro-Hogan. The WWF did it with Lawler and Bret Hart a little while later in 1997 and they had made it seem like those two hated each other for so long and then Hart turns heel and Lawler stats sucking up to him. I think it would have been hilarious for Heenan to be all pro-Hogan after bashing him and feuding with him for so long. I could have pictured Heenan during commentary saying things like "I always knew there would come a day when Hogan would smarten up and quit listening to these fans". Hearing Heenan turn on Flair and go pro-Hogan would have been great, IMO.

 

[The Butcher]

It wouldn't have made sense. Heenan was a WCW employee, and the nWo was supposed to be completely independent. Unless Heenan was to be revealed as a member of the faction, there was no justification for him to support Hogan in any way. The Outsiders, the Hogan heel turn, and the very early nWo were about as flawlessly booked as could be. The fact that all of the announcers were intimidated and pissed off at them helped drive home the angle. I can't think of any tweaks that would improve that genesis period of the nWo.

 

[oneofakind318]

I actually really liked how the story came full circle with everything Heenan had said and suspected about Hogan over the years finally coming true. There was just so much history between those two characters dating back to the AWA in the early 80s. For Heenan to forget all that to jump on Hogan's bandwagon at that point wouldn't have made much sense and it certainly wasn't necessary to getting the story over. Of course Heenan teased an affiliation with the NWO on several occasions, but that was also consistent with his "Weasel" personality.

I thought the lead up and beginning of the NWO was extremely well done, and Heenan's continued hatred of Hogan gave it a more realistic feel. For awhile there WCW was locked in to making sure all of the details made sense and stayed consistent. That was all screwed up in due time thanks to the egos involved, but May 96 through at least the end of that year was executed very well.

 

[justtxyank]

Well Heenan did suck up to the nWo quite a bit on Nitros throughout 97, trying to gain their favor even though he was anti-nwo on the broadcast. But in general it wouldn't have made sense for him to be pro-nWo, because he hated Hogan and because the nWo was trying to "destroy" WCW, Heenan's employer.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Interesting topic. One thing I was interested in regarding NWO before and after the Hogan reveal was the dynamic with Heenan. I suppose bringing Heenan on board might have led to a big moment and crazy dynamic. However, with Bischoff and Dibiase in the fold another talking head manager type would have been overkill (not that the NWO storyline was immune to overkill). Adding Heenan may have created a huge moment but I think Bischoff and Dibiase fit the storyline much better.

 

[Shalashaska]

I loved how terrified Heenan seemed of the Outsiders and the NWO. I think they played it perfectly and as mentioned above it wouldn't have fit the invasion angle to have Heenan become a Hogan supporter, but I really like the idea. I could have definitely seen Heenan start supporting Hogan if it was just a regular heel turn. Just imagine the heat Hogan would have gotten if he had Bobby as his manager. WCW could have gotten a lot of TV out of the two of them teaming up.

 

[strongbad]

Heenan was a WCW employee. Regardless of his heelish views, what would generate even more heat is if both he and the face announcers were against the actions of the nWo. Let's not forget that there were full locker room brawls at the time, brawls that included WCW heel talent. It would be conflicting for Heenan to support those heels and also back the nWo. They did everything in their power to get the nWo over, and what they did, worked.

The only thing in retrospect that he could've done better was not to botch up the Bash at the Beach heel turn by Hogan. When Hogan was coming down to the ring, I didn't care much for him and thought that he was really part of WCW... until Heenan made his comments. Then I thought, "maybe he really is part of the outsiders."

 

[GameOver]

It wouldn't have made sense. Heenan was a WCW employee, and the nWo was supposed to be completely independent. Unless Heenan was to be revealed as a member of the faction, there was no justification for him to support Hogan in any way. The Outsiders, the Hogan heel turn, and the very early nWo were about as flawlessly booked as could be. The fact that all of the announcers were intimidated and pissed off at them helped drive home the angle. I can't think of any tweaks that would improve that genesis period of the nWo.

You mean like everyone else that turned there back on WCW and joined the nWo? That has nothing to do with it, sure initially there was no reason for him to go nWo ass kisser but given everyone was being attacked that wasn't supporting them most noticeably Eric Bischoff it would make perfect sense for the Weasel to join them and Heenan hated Hogan (in storyline) because he was beating all of his protege's and thus cost him millions of dollars, in WCW he was not with the exception of maybe Flair since Heenan wasn't managing anymore not to mention Hogan turned and was standing for the same ideals Heenan did for most of his career.

I would think too that Heenan would jump at the chance to get in on that action.

The problem outside of storyline tho was that Heenan stated in a WWE DVD that he hated being there, didn't feel welcome and couldn't get over there lack of any idea wtf they were doing on a show by show basis so he struggled just to be a commentator let alone getting involved in any storylines.


as for the angle as a whole, initially it was very captivating but within 6 months it got stale and stupid. Like every Faction in wrestling history at some point it loses it's impact

 

[HBsam31]

I actually really liked how the story came full circle with everything Heenan had said and suspected about Hogan over the years finally coming true. There was just so much history between those two characters dating back to the AWA in the early 80s. For Heenan to forget all that to jump on Hogan's bandwagon at that point wouldn't have made much sense and it certainly wasn't necessary to getting the story over. Of course Heenan teased an affiliation with the NWO on several occasions, but that was also consistent with his "Weasel" personality.

I thought the lead up and beginning of the NWO was extremely well done, and Heenan's continued hatred of Hogan gave it a more realistic feel. For awhile there WCW was locked in to making sure all of the details made sense and stayed consistent. That was all screwed up in due time thanks to the egos involved, but May 96 through at least the end of that year was executed very well.

This right here. Everything Heenan always said about hogan turned out to be true when he joined the NWO. I think the part that made the whole thing entertaining to me was even though Hogan turned heel Heenan still hated him. I loved it just the way it was done. Heenan loathed Hogan and it carried over to WCW and even carried over when Hogan turned heel. It always stood out to me, and glad they did it the way they did.

 

[justtxyank]

The problem outside of storyline tho was that Heenan stated in a WWE DVD that he hated being there, didn't feel welcome and couldn't get over there lack of any idea wtf they were doing on a show by show basis so he struggled just to be a commentator let alone getting involved in any storylines.

It's amazing how once WWE owned everything it turns out the only place anyone ever liked working was WWE.

Heenan struggled to commentate in WCW because he was drunk. He was strong at first but then he lost it. Some nights were gold and others were marred with him laughing hysterically for no reason.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I've had this discussion several times but I wanted to know what some of you thought about it on this forum. I really think that in '96 when Hogan turned heel it would have been awesome for Heenan to become pro-Hogan. The WWF did it with Lawler and Bret Hart a little while later in 1997 and they had made it seem like those two hated each other for so long and then Hart turns heel and Lawler stats sucking up to him. I think it would have been hilarious for Heenan to be all pro-Hogan after bashing him and feuding with him for so long. I could have pictured Heenan during commentary saying things like "I always knew there would come a day when Hogan would smarten up and quit listening to these fans". Hearing Heenan turn on Flair and go pro-Hogan would have been great, IMO.

The dynamic was that Heenan 'told us so'. He's hated Hulk Hogan longer than anybody and when Hogan turned into a bad guy, Heenan rubbed it in more than anything. He's not going to be loyal to someone he doesn't like.

Also Heenan was working for WCW and was apart of the system.

 

[Pedigree1]

Hell no Heenan joining the NWO! He despised Hogan hated him for yrs and yrs! Always talked about what a hypocrite Hogan was. The Fans didnt know the real Hulk and thats what Bobby was alluding too.

So joining the NWO was not even in the cards! Im sure Heenan would have quit and walked away from the business than align himself with Hogan.

 

[The Butcher]

You mean like everyone else that turned there back on WCW and joined the nWo? That has nothing to do with it, sure initially there was no reason for him to go nWo ass kisser but given everyone was being attacked that wasn't supporting them most noticeably Eric Bischoff it would make perfect sense for the Weasel to join them and Heenan hated Hogan (in storyline) because he was beating all of his protege's and thus cost him millions of dollars, in WCW he was not with the exception of maybe Flair since Heenan wasn't managing anymore not to mention Hogan turned and was standing for the same ideals Heenan did for most of his career.

I would think too that Heenan would jump at the chance to get in on that action.

The problem outside of storyline tho was that Heenan stated in a WWE DVD that he hated being there, didn't feel welcome and couldn't get over there lack of any idea wtf they were doing on a show by show basis so he struggled just to be a commentator let alone getting involved in any storylines.


as for the angle as a whole, initially it was very captivating but within 6 months it got stale and stupid. Like every Faction in wrestling history at some point it loses it's impact

Re-read my comment, Game. I was talking about the "genesis" period of the nWo. Before everybody and their mother jumped ship. If, at some point when the nWo became a watered down mess, Heenan joined up, then that's one thing. But when The Outsiders hit the scene, Hogan turned heel, and the nWo was birthed, it would have made no sense for Heenan to join, and it would have hurt the angle.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

The dynamic was that Heenan 'told us so'. He's hated Hulk Hogan longer than anybody and when Hogan turned into a bad guy, Heenan rubbed it in more than anything. He's not going to be loyal to someone he doesn't like.

Also Heenan was working for WCW and was apart of the system.

Agreed.

It made sense for King to kiss Hart's ass, they were done feuding and considering how Hart started ripping into the American fans (something Lawler always did in WWF) it made it seem in Lawlers eyes that Hart had seen the light. Hart went from treating the fans like gold to dirt, which is something Lawler often did, in essence they found common ground.

The nWo had one alliance and that was to themselves. They didn't care if you were face or heel, they were just against WCW, simple as that. On top of that Heenan went on for years that Hogan was a piece of garbage and the first thing he said when Hogan turned was "What have I been saying all these years?". Hogan proved Heenan right and since he's the brain of course he's gonna rub it in and go with the "I told you so" method.

Lawler didn't like Hart because he acted like a good 2 shoe (and becoming king), after he became heel he dropped the mannerisms that Lawler hated therefore there was no reason to hate him. Heenan on the other hand often called Hogan 2-faced, he's The Brain so he's gonna rub it in when he's proved right.

 

[CM Steel]

Bobby Heenan was too old fashion for the nWo. The New World Order needed a new face to a faction of legends like Hogan & Savage, and Eric Bischoff was that one. It's hard to picture Bobby Heenan involved with the nWo. Remember when the Nasty Boys tried to join the nWo but were rejected? That's what I could see happening to Bobby Heenan. The guy who's been a thorn in Hogan's side for so long in wrestling a heel Hogan reverses the game on the weasel.

So to answer your question, no I couldn't see it. Hogan solo as a heel or with the nWo. No dice.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Hmmmmm, interesting...

I go back to Andre with Heenan and how quite frankly, Heenan played a big BIG role in getting the heelish Andre over; in turn getting Hulk over. Which all resulted in Mania 3.

I say yes.


Everyone is joining the nWo, it would've made sense to have a heel commentator. I don't understand this bullshit about "oh he was WCW employee". HOGAN WAS AN WCW EMPLOYEE TOO! That didn't stop him. Although it can be annoying at times (See Taz Aces & 8s), but a heel commentator, or any commentator for that matter, is a very important part of how the viewing audience sees a wrestler/faction.

The problem I see, he is too good. Heenan would've buried the babyfaces faster than Madeline's parents. nWo was cool to begin with, but Heenan, good god, I have seen some of his promos with Andre, Henning, Rude; especially Andre, he just so makes so much sense as to 'why they are doing bad things'. Great managers, mouthpieces have always taken twisted logic and made you believe it.


I WANTED ANDRE TO KILL HOGAN BECAUSE OF HEENAN!

 

[nWo2]

I think it would have been great especially since Heenan was the only WCW announcer we saw anywhere else and he could easily have been a "nWo sympathizer" while never revealing an alliegance, but it would have been good TV watching him try to earn or sneak his way into nWo promos, backstage promos and parties, etc...

 

[BretHitmanHart92]

For those saying it wouldn't make any sense because Heenan "hated" Hogan for years. Go watch some clips of Bret Hart's heel run in 1997. Hart and Lawler also "hated" each other on screen but when Hart turned heel Lawler started supporting him and it was awesome to hear. It made sense. Heel commentators always support the heel wrestlers and always supported the babyfaces when they turned heel. They always said "well this guy finally stopped listening to these idiot fans".

Heenan turning on Flair and going pro-Hogan in '96 would have been awesome to hear, IMO. Everyone was joining the nWo. Why couldn't Heenan have joined? Maybe not right away since they were really trying to push them as legit outsiders but once Bischoff joined and everyone else started joining then Heenan should have. Even before that though Heenan was the type that would have started to kiss their ass out of fear that they'd do something to him. He was the "weasel".

 

[Olan]

I get what people are saying about Heenan always hating Hogan so him joining the NWO doesn't make sense and that part I agree with.However he does fit into the outsiders invading WCW much better than Eric B. IMO. It would also make sense since Heenan corrupted Andre against Hogan so him corrupting Hogan could play on history
But the NWO was done perfectly in the early stages so I have a hard time criticizing anything they did.

 

[The Warlord]

One of the biggest reasons the nWo was a success (IMO)...is the way Bobby Heenan sold it, especially at the beginning. Him talking about how his job isn't safe anymore and what they would do for work...it really sold the idea of how important and dangerous the nWo takeover really was.

Heenan joining the nWo would have made ZERO sense and am glad that it didn't happen. If he was to praise Hogan and continue being the "heel" then it would have hurt that angle alot.

Say what you want about WCW in the later years, but from 96-98 they were pretty much flawless.

 

[The Boss]

I could have pictured Heenan during commentary saying things like "I always knew there would come a day when Hogan would smarten up and quit listening to these fans". Hearing Heenan turn on Flair and go pro-Hogan would have been great, IMO.

I wouldn't have had Heenan say that he knew HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN would "smarten up". Instead it would have been more Heenan like if he went total hypocrite and said, "I've ALWAYS liked this guy. He's the best thing that ever happened to pro wrestling and I've always wanted to manage him". And through butt kissing try to weasel his way into the nWo - just for the money of coarse -

 

[Wald]

Wouldn't have liked it personally as I love that Hogan and Heenan were always at odds with each other throughout their careers