Biggest Fall From Grace: NBA

[Big Sexy]

Over the last 5 years or so there have been a number of guys who have gone from all stars to bench warmers or even out of the league. These are guys that were seen as elite players in the NBA until, for some reason or another, it all came crashing down. I'm trying to figure out who you guys think has had the biggest fall from grace in the last 5 or so years (so no Grant Hill). This isn't really for guys like Vince Carter who gradually saw their skills decrease, this is for guys who had a more rapid drop in production.

Gilbert Arenas- Gilbert was my inspiration for this thread. Just 5 years ago Gilbert was averaging over 28 ppg and was seen as one of the best point guards in the NBA. Now he is averaging 5.5 ppg on the Memphis Grizzlies bench. One year after his 28.4 ppg average, Arenas suffered a major injury that caused him to miss all but 15 games over the course of two seasons. He finally gets back healthy 2 seasons ago but the infamous locker room gun incident quickly put an end to a season where Arenas was actually putting up some good numbers again. Last year he started out in Washington until he was traded to Orlando and he had an awful season for his standards. This year it seemed like nobody wanted him until Memphis finally gave him a shot. Now a guy who once got praise for being one of the best scorers in the game, is getting praise for being a good leader and decent bench player.

Tracy McGrady- T Mac was once one of the best players in the NBA. Many saw him on the same level as Kobe Bryant. Now he is a decent bench player for the Atlanta Hawks. McGrady's fall was due solely to injuries. He went from an elite scorer to a guy who couldn't stay on the court and when he did, he was shooting under 40% from the field. Last year in Detroit and this year in Atlanta he has played close to full seasons and his shooting % is up by his career average but he is nothing more then a solid bench contributor.

Steve Francis- Stevie Franchise came into the NBA as a great scorer and one of the more exciting point guards in the league. He left the NBA at the age of 30 after just 9 seasons. The drop for Francis started when Jeff Van Gundy became the head coach of the Rockets. In JVG's system, individuals just don't put up huge scoring numbers. It wasn't a fit for Francis's game and he was soon traded to Orlando for T Mac. Francis had one good year in Orlando but the next season his numbers dropped and he was traded mid season to the Knicks where his numbers dropped even more. He had one more average year in New York and then he found himself back in Houston. He lasted 10 games coming off the bench for Rick Adelman before an injury ended his season. He tried to come back the next season and was in great shape but his injury kept him out to start the season and then he was traded to Memphis and waived. In 2010 he appeared in 4 games for the Beijing Ducks before returning to the US.

So who has had the biggest fall from grace? Is it one of these three or is there someone else?

 

[Lowdown]

All 3 have fallen from where they once were. But I'll throw this one out: Antoine Walker. Here's a guy that was at one point the star of the Celtics, and he fell out of favor with the GM. Played for Miami (where he won a ring), Dallas, Boston a second time, and Memphis (not in that order). There were issues with his weight, but part of his downfall was due to his lack of acumen in regards to the money he made. He couldn't say no to family and hangers on. I just heard he retired from a D-League squad in Idaho. He sold his championship ring, has no car, and shares a 900 a month apartment with one of his teammates. A cautionary tale if I ever saw one.

 

[Alastor]

I don't think it is fair to label players that had serious injuries as falling from grace. The fact that they recovered enough to continue to contribute in the league should be a plus and not a negative to label them. If that is the criteria then surely Brandon Roy would be the winner here. Franchise All-Star player forced to retire at the end of last season just before entering his prime.

Anyway I have two names that come to mind for the label. Richard Jefferson went from being sought-after starter 5 years ago to the point that he was subject to waiver speculations due to his contribution not matching his salary. Another obvious player would be Rashard Lewis who went to Orlando as an All-Star on one of the biggest contract to now being a cast off at the lowly Wizards.

 

[Big Sexy]

I don't think it is fair to label players that had serious injuries as falling from grace. The fact that they recovered enough to continue to contribute in the league should be a plus and not a negative to label them. If that is the criteria then surely Brandon Roy would be the winner here. Franchise All-Star player forced to retire at the end of last season just before entering his prime.

The only player on my list that can attribute his entire fall to injury is T Mac. Arenas was back from his major injury and playing well in Washington before the "gun incident" really fucked up his career. Steve Francis only had one major injury but he already had his free fall before it occurred and he has had chances since getting healthy again.

Anyway I have two names that come to mind for the label. Richard Jefferson went from being sought-after starter 5 years ago to the point that he was subject to waiver speculations due to his contribution not matching his salary. Another obvious player would be Rashard Lewis who went to Orlando as an All-Star on one of the biggest contract to now being a cast off at the lowly Wizards.

Rashard Lewis is a guy who has definitely gotten worse but he really wasn't that great to begin with. He was always a second scoring option at best. The main reason people see his fall as significant is because the ludicrous contract that Orlando gave him a few years back. Other then that his production decrease has been fairly gradual.

 

[Alastor]

Lewis was always the second scoring option but during his time at Orland he dropped to 3rd or 4th option which is is not a gradual decline. His production might have not dropped much but his role certainly changed.

Another name just popped into my head, Lamar Odom went from 6th-man of the year last year to being told stay away from his new team this year. Pretty steep fall if you ask me.

 

[Big Sexy]

Lewis was always the second scoring option but during his time at Orland he dropped to 3rd or 4th option which is is not a gradual decline. His production might have not dropped much but his role certainly changed.

Rashard was always the second option in Seattle and then he became the third option in Orlando. It wasn't a steep decline at all. The reason he scored less in Orlando was because they were a better team with more talent then Seattle had. Lewis's contract is the biggest reason people saw his decline as greater then it was.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I gotta agree with Big Sexy as Gilbert Arenas is definitely who I thought of when I saw the title of the thread.

From the years 2004-2007 Arena's was one of the best point guards in the NBA without a doubt. He had a great 04-05 season and it seemed every single year he was getting better and better topping out at 28 points and 6 assists per game, great numbers for any point guard, not to mention he had 25 40+ point games playing with the Wizards. I remember seeing this guy playing for Arizona in the 2001 NCAA tournament and thought this kid was gonna be a great player in the NBA, and he was.

Then he got his knee injury, had a few OK seasons, followed by another pretty good season (09-10) and after that he disappeared. He didn't have a bad 10-11 season but it certainly wasn't what he was capable of and after an abysmal showing in Orlando scoring 8 points per game he was recently traded to Memphis.

Arenas was someone I had really high hopes for and for a while looked like he was gonna be one of the best in the NBA for years to come. Even though he had a few good seasons after his injury he was never the same player and his carrying a gun without a license did him no favors as well.

For me I would say Arenas fell harder than almost any other NBA player I can think of.

 

[PlayTheGame]

I think we have to include Vince Carter in this thread as well. He used to be one of the best players in the league, possibly top 5, but he hasn't aged well and his production has almost all but tapered off. Now he's not much better than an average guard, and good off the bench. He used to be up there with Kobe Bryant in the early 2000's as an up and comer who looked like he could have a bright future and multiple championships. However, none of those titles ever came, and he eventually stopped winning individual awards/accolades. His once superior/freakish athleticism has now become much more limited and average at best. He had an extremely encouraging start and looked very promising, but he has since seemed to fizzle out over the years and hasn't been relevant in some time now. He's certainly had quite a decent fall from grace.

 

[Big Sexy]

I think we have to include Vince Carter in this thread as well. He used to be one of the best players in the league, possibly top 5, but he hasn't aged well and his production has almost all but tapered off. Now he's not much better than an average guard, and good off the bench. He used to be up there with Kobe Bryant in the early 2000's as an up and comer who looked like he could have a bright future and multiple championships. However, none of those titles ever came, and he eventually stopped winning individual awards/accolades. His once superior/freakish athleticism has now become much more limited and average at best. He had an extremely encouraging start and looked very promising, but he has since seemed to fizzle out over the years and hasn't been relevant in some time now. He's certainly had quite a decent fall from grace.

I didn't include Vince Carter because I'm staying away from guys whose production has gradually declined due to age. Carter is now 35 years old and has been in the league for 14 seasons. Not everyone can be Kobe Bryant and continue to put up huge numbers every year. Carter went from a mid 20's ppg scorer for most of his career to a low 20's ppg scorer during his last couple years in New Jersey. Then his minutes went down in Orlando and he fell to around a 15 ppg average, and now he is coming off the bench in Dallas. That isn't a fall from grace, it's just getting old. A similar thing has happened to Tim Duncan but no one is/should mention him in this thread either.

 

[PlayTheGame]

I would say though that the difference between Duncan and Carter is that Duncan still shows flashes of his old self even though he isn't what he once was. He still possesses those same basic skills that he was blessed with, his age just prevents them from being there as much. Carter, on the other hand, seems to be a completely different player for the worse, as he doesn't even resemble his old self- he can't do anything that he once could, and doesn't even really show any flashes of it any more. This, in part, could be due to the fact that Carter's game used to be all about flashy dunks and getting to the basket in an explosive way, whereas Duncan's game is easier for an older guy to replicate, as his game features a lot of outside shooting from mid-range and rebounding, so obviously those skills don't diminish as much as a guy's ability to charge to the basket.

 

[Big Sexy]

I would say though that the difference between Duncan and Carter is that Duncan still shows flashes of his old self even though he isn't what he once was. He still possesses those same basic skills that he was blessed with, his age just prevents them from being there as much. Carter, on the other hand, seems to be a completely different player for the worse, as he doesn't even resemble his old self- he can't do anything that he once could, and doesn't even really show any flashes of it any more. This, in part, could be due to the fact that Carter's game used to be all about flashy dunks and getting to the basket in an explosive way, whereas Duncan's game is easier for an older guy to replicate, as his game features a lot of outside shooting from mid-range and rebounding, so obviously those skills don't diminish as much as a guy's ability to charge to the basket.

You answered your own concern. The way Vince Carter played in his prime is something that usually only the young guys can do. Even Kobe isn't nearly as flashy as he once was and settles for more jumpers nowadays. Carter has "lost his legs," so to speak, as he has aged. Duncan was always Mr Fundamental so the decline in his abilities isn't going to be as obvious just from watching his style of play.

 

[PlayTheGame]

I see what you're saying, I guess I just defined Carter as a more one-dimensional player (but it was obviosly quite an impressive dimension that he used to possess) in his prime, and now that he doesn't have that dimension, I feel like he's been relegated to an average basketball player. Duncan, while losing some "stuff", has been able to retain his outside game, because as you mentioned, one's outside game doesn't really go away (ex: Kobe settling for jumpers). That's why I would say Carter fell from grace because he lost the one thing that made him special, due to, for the most part, age. Duncan, on the other hand, isn't a "regular player", even with his advanced age, as he can still do some things that average players can't. He hasn't fallen as much as Carter, so I wouldn't put him in the thread either. Both Carter and Duncan used to be MVP-worthy, but I believe Duncan is still above-average, whereas Carter has fallen to an average player at best. Even if it was due to age for the most part, it's still a fall from grace. Going from one of the best to marginal at best isn't pretty. Most guys with his talent don't fall THAT far. Kobe is a true exception, but for the most part you get guys like Duncan- still pretty damn good. Carter was just too reliant on his athleticism and explosiveness, and when he lost it, he lost his entire game pretty much.

 

[Alastor]

I find it hypocritical that you would class Carter's decline solely due to age while at the same time list 3 guards that rely on athleticism and explosiveness in their early years and base their decline more on outside factors than old age.

 

[Arcade]

Anyone remember Josh Howard? He was a star player for the Dallas Mavericks, and suddently he fell off from the face of the Earth.

 

[Fugazi]

Brandon Roy

As a Portland native I had high hopes for Roy and Oden to give us our first champions since the late 70's but of course with Oden's Sam Bowie esque career and Brandon Roy's injury problems both are gone and now we are left crippled. Brandon Roy is the biggest fall from grace simply because he was on his way to becoming one of the best players in the league(if he wasn't already) but amounted to nothing but a young retired superstar with no rings. The others mentioned here had longer careers and more chances to get rings while Roy was forced to retire after having such a short yet stellar career.

 

[Big Sexy]

I find it hypocritical that you would class Carter's decline solely due to age while at the same time list 3 guards that rely on athleticism and explosiveness in their early years and base their decline more on outside factors than old age.

It's not hypocritical at all, they are 3 different stories and none are what Carter went through. Vince Carter had a gradual decline and was still averaging over 20 ppg at age 32 and was still a consistent starter last year at age 34. T Mac went from superstar to bench player in a two year period and the last time he averaged 20+ was at the age of 28. The last time he was a consistent starter was at 30. Gilbert Arenas just turned 30 in January and he has been a shit bench player the last two years. Steve Francis was out of the NBA completely at 30.

 

[Alastor]

T-Mac declined due to the injuries, not anything that I would class as fall from grace. The players you listed are also deemed 'fallen from grace' because of the contract they EARNED while being all-stars but because of injuries, reduced their ability to contribute at all-star levels. T-Mac is doing the exact same thing as Carter. Arenas is exactly the same too. Only Francis fits the bill of falling from grace.

Carter put up decent numbers but the perception is he has declined not solely due to age and did not help the Orlando Magic by being the number two guy they wanted. Granted he already lost much of the athleticism that made him an all-star, I believe him not being the 'man' contributed as much. I am not saying he is a good choice for this thread, but just pointing out what I feel is an unfair criticism other players who were leaders too that just could not put up numbers due to injuries on the court.

PS: Josh Howard is an excellent choice. Even though he had a serious injury too, his decline set in before that at the Mavs.

 

[jmt225]

When I saw the name of the title, the first name that popped into my head was Shawn Kemp.

It's hard to believe but there was a time when this guy was considered the second best player in the league behind Jordan, and was going to be the one with Gary Payton to take over the NBA. But the demons in his personal life spiraled out of control and just like that, he started to look terrible physically. And even as an overweight junkie, he was still pretty damn good. It was remarkable. However, he was on one of the worst teams in the NBA and his career just continued to go down hill until his time finally ran out.

Kemp could have been a major star in the league for many, many years, but with his problems off the court and his falling out with the Supersonics... he became more irrelevant faster than any other major star I've ever seen.

 

[Big Sexy]

T-Mac declined due to the injuries, not anything that I would class as fall from grace. The players you listed are also deemed 'fallen from grace' because of the contract they EARNED while being all-stars but because of injuries, reduced their ability to contribute at all-star levels. T-Mac is doing the exact same thing as Carter. Arenas is exactly the same too. Only Francis fits the bill of falling from grace.

Injuries are part of the game. That was the cause for T Mac's fall from grace and it contributed to Arenas's as well. T Mac and Arenas are not the same as Carter because their demises happened much quicker and at younger ages. The cause for it is irrelevant, they went from superstars to role players in a short period of time. Carter went from superstar to all star to solid starter, and now he is transitioning into a bench role.

 

[Arcade]

Injuries are part of the game. That was the cause for T Mac's fall from grace and it contributed to Arenas's as well. T Mac and Arenas are not the same as Carter because their demises happened much quicker and at younger ages. The cause for it is irrelevant, they went from superstars to role players in a short period of time. Carter went from superstar to all star to solid starter, and now he is transitioning into a bench role.

If that was the case the Yao Ming would've fell from grace as well, although that isn't really the case. He was still producing pretty good numbers when he wasn't 100%.