You're an asshole
lols, I kid, but you're a Beth fan so this wont be easy.
But I am not a Beth fan...
First thing is first, i'm not against pushing Beth in general, i'm just not in favor of the way they do it. With Beth, I do agree that a powerful sadistic character would be great, but she can pull that off through promos, not in the ring. Her last reigns where awful because all she did was dominate her opponents, and everytime it was the same thing. One could argue it made Mickies victory even sweeter, it did, but she was always the 'fluke' champion who only won Beth via roll up. Give her a gimmick, give her a personality, but just don't make her dominant in the ring as such because the matches get stale and boring, watching somebody have the shit beaten out of them time and time again isn't exactly entertaining or fun to watch.
I could not have said it better myself, except for the in-ring dominance. If you are powerful sadistic character... you need to incorporate everything you do outside the ring inside the ring as well. How does a powerful sadistic character do this at the start of their push? Match dominance. It does not need to be 80/20 with the best diva's like James & Kim as it can detract from the match, but say if she took on the likes of Jillian [example only], she can blast her way through the entire thing to show off her skills. The crowd is most likely not going to care about the match, but having Beth easily beat up these diva's will certainly garner some attention.
She can still look dominant in tag matches by picking up the wins, she can make herself look strong by going over girls like Kelly Kelly. She shouldn't be dominating matches against arguably the best female wrestler in the company, nor the most over face because it makes them look weak. Not to mention the constant underselling - a point which I keep making. The excuse that it's her gimmick can only go so far, when she IS supposed to be selling offense, she doesn't do it, and it takes away the credibilty.
True, but this is the case for all big men/women. You can't have small moves like punches & kicks have all the effect in the world for the purposes of selling. It would not make the big type character work if we had Henry falling down from a punch delivered by someone like Chris Jericho... it would instantly kill his toughness in the ring. Even though Beth isn't bigger than some women like Mickie, Beth has been built to act accordingly so she has some reason to undersell.
Oh, I watched the match between Beth & Mickie just to see if you were correct about no selling... I believe the words you might be looking for are under-selling. I did not see one move Beth "no sold". All of Mickie's offense was hit & due to Beth's character, she acted appropriately to Mickie.
Beth can show her power, but making Mickie seem like a complete underdog is silly. The crowd did not care about Beth during her last two reigns, with the exception of her storyline with Satina, Beth has never got a decent reaction from the crowd, she's never had major heel heat. I don't know what it is, but the crowd legitamtely doesn't like Beths offense, hence the boring chants she sometimes gets, why keep shoving that down peoples throat when they don't want to see it? There's a difference between disliking somebody because they're a 'bad guy' and disliking somebody because their wrestling skills aren't entertaining.
This statement would have warranted something, but its the diva's division. No diva other than those that have some sort of character don't technically get a reaction from the crowd whether it be positive or negative. During glamarella, Beth had a gimmick & got a connection happening with the crowd together with Santino. The other reigns she was just a dominate force & hadn't much reaction. Nothing to do with the crowd not liking her offense, as there are times that the crowd become stunned by her moveset. It has to do with character. The whole thread was about Beth getting one to get a connection with the crowd. Don't agree? Let me list some of the diva's that get given some reactions from the crowd:
Jillian: Her singing gimmick gets people to not like her, thus drawing heat from the audience. Since she has been placed as a filler/jobber for the division on RAW, she doesn't need to do much other than remind people that they hate her.
Mickie James: She once had a gimmick as a psycho diva & the crowd has respected her transition from heel to face due to the hard work she has put in.
Kelly Kelly: They have given Kelly the role of "most hotest" diva which the crowd seems to give decent pops to her. When she enters, she gets cheered & occassionally gets reactions from her in-ring work.
Maryse: She is more over-cocky than any other heel diva, & gets some reaction. Not much as she still is like the standard heel.
Notice how all of them seem a little different from the standard "I'm the baby face diva" or "I'm a heel, grrr...."
Exaxctly, promos. Like I said, i've no problem at all with changing her character, but she doesn't need to dominate in the ring as such. She can be evil and sadistic by attacking over faces backstage. Maryse gets cat-calls, I wouldn't exactly call that a reaction because she's never been solidly boo'd, and the only reason Katie got heat was because she got on the mic and spewed out her British accent. If Beth does the character, who is to say people will care? Can she pull it off? She isn't exactly charismatic, and there's no way she could pull off a psycho character to the extent as Mickie, I don't mean the perky in your face character, but in general with the psychology behind it.
Mickie's psycho character & the proposed sadistic powerful Beth character are two different things. Mickie's gimmick involved her as being unpredictable & unable to control herself. Sadistic means that you know what you are doing & can control yourself, yet you let loose on everything despite consequence. Add the fact that Beth can use her power to make her intimidating, something Mickie never had... two different gimmicks.
Since Beth is an actual wrestler who has been trained to be a wrestler from the start, her chances of pulling off a wrestlinbg gimmick/character would be a lot easier for her to successfully do than others like Rosa or Alicia. She is credible to make the gimmick work & does not need great mic skills to make it happen. Orton doesn't have the greatest skills on the stick, but at least he gets the job done. Beth can do this easily from how she can conduct herself when she gets "frustrated."
Basically, a character is one of the few factors that will get someone over in the business. If you don't have one, expect to fight very hard to become noticed. As long as the character or gimmick is not overly-stupid like the one's Tenta has reviewed in his thread, they have a decent chance. Look at the diva's that don't have any character. The crowd does not care for them. Those that get a reaction had/has a character.
You can only take the 'dominant' thing so far though, you cannot make Beth dominate every single week. It makes the opponent look like a constant underdog, the crowd hates that. Beth I don't think will be getting much of a push now anyway, Mickie has finally gone over her clean, and there's no need for them to have another match.
Not at the moment no. Mickie can be kept busy away from Beth in order for her to receive a push. You saw the end part of the match where she was going to snap & after the match was finished. Now, Beth can be given a chance to show her dominance against all the other diva's on the roster & be like Kane... no heel nor face wants to associate with them. Make this her rise to the top again & make the people care that she is somewhat legit.
seriously i am one who wants to see womens wrestling reduced to almost nothing dont get me wrong i love women
but if they are to wrestle VKM and the WWE better make them look legit but for some reason that seem so hard
well anyway that was my anti-women division post