Best Year ever by a Promotion Nominees

[TheLittleOne]

Loved August 1989 - November 1990 WWF..
every pay per view in that period was so much fun, especially both Survivor Series 1990 & 1989 ( my top 2 FAV surv.ser.)....
WM6
all the great characters.. and great workers.. instead of the characters we saw later in WWE like skinner, repo man, doink, on & on & on...
here had Big Bossman, Mr. Perfect, Million Dollar Man, Great Big Man HEEL Big Bossman turned into hot babyface Bossman ( btw helped hogan look great, as did Perfecto, & Dibase & Savage & EarthQuake!!)... Best Tag Team period.. classic matches like HART FOUNDATION vs BRAIN BUSTERS, ROCKERS vs Rougeau Brothers, Harts vs rockers, DEMOLITION vs LEGION OF DOOM ( the hogan vs flair of tag team wrestling)....
great tv, like PrimeTime Wrestling hosted by HEENAN and GORILLA before it was scrapped and ruined by Vince and his bodybuilding custom clothes!!!
Saturday Morning SUPERSTARS, Sunday Morning All American Wrestling, WRESTLING CHALLENGE ( sat morn)... WHERE IS OUR SATURDAY MORNING WRESTLING.. re dic you less we dont have saturday morning on network, cable or atleast WWE NETWORK especially when they want to hit the KIDS demo hard..???
this time period you were sold on every single character from RICK MARTEL being a cocky model, to Mr.Perfect being a cocky jock that could ace any sport!!.. the Genius was the smartest man, Brutus LOVED to cut hair, Ted Dibiase believed every man has a price and you believed that too!! many kids cried on the school bus after WARRIOR beat HULK HOGAN asking our teachers the next day if HULKAMANIA was dead??....
and the same kids CRIED AGAIN month or two later when EARTHQUAKE CRUSHED HULKAMANIA.... then we each got our autographed picture of HULK HOGAN as a thank you gift for writing a letter to " Hogan in the Hospital"

has JOHN CENA gotten a large group of 4th grade kids to cry worried about his ability to rule the universe??...maybe , i wouldn't know.. but i also wouldnt bet on it..

2nd place would be early WCW.. any1 who says 97 wcw UH, has not seen 91 or 92 wcw..minus the malenko, guerrerro, benoit, mysterio, jericho, juvi, regal matches...97 wcw was torture couldnt tie the boots of 92 WCW with RICK RUDE, STING, LUGER, STEVE AUSTIN, STEAMBOAT, PILLMAN, STEINERS, SIMMONS with commentary from JR and JESSE VENTURA..CLASSIC.

imo of course!

 

[Goldie]

I always have a soft spot for WWE in 1992:

Look at this roster for a who's who in wrestling:
Hulk Hogan & Ric Flair (the Ying & Yang of pro wrestling)... All time legends in Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Roddy Piper, LOD .... classic wrestlers in Ted Dibiase, Owen Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Curt Hening, Scott Hall, Rick Martel, Jake Roberts, Tito Santanna, Jimmy Snuka, Bam Bam, Jerry Lawlar and past/future champions in Sid, Warrior, Sgt Slaughter, Bob Backlund & Yokozuna.

I don't think I've seen a roster that deep in terms of name recognition in a given calendar year.

The year started with the epic '92 Rumble... still the best Rumble ever IMO, where Ric Flairs one man show was epic.
Wrestlemania 8 may not have had that standout 5 star match, but as an overall card is was very solid.
Summerslam was at Wembley Stadium, London... in what remains a standout Summerslam- 80,000 fans going bezerk when Davey beat Bret for the IC title- I have never heard a pop like it in wrestling. That match remains one of the WWE's greatest ever- you just don't see matches like this anymore.
Bret & Shawn were working their way to the top of the card in the post-Hogan era (Bret won his first world title later in the year)
Memorable storylines included Jakes creepy heel persona (which changes from Savage to Undertaker), and Flair hilarious storyline where he claimed Liz was 'his before Randys'... Curt Hening turning babyface on Heenan & Flair

Plus you had Gorilla and Heenan reaching their peak on commentary- still my favourite announcing duo.

Great memories!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No no no no no NO. A clusterfuck at Superbrawl 97? Please. I remember a three way dream match with some of the best talent. Was it one of the best matches of the year? No. The focus was not on producing matches with clean finishes but on bringing together an all star cast of guys to bring credibility to the best feud in wrestling history. You have these WWE apologist revisionist types like RobTaylor and JoeyJoe blatantly exaggerating every little thing they look back at as wrong with WCW. Because they couldn't possibly be anything but loyal WWE apologists. All you young posters don't be fooled. Most of us WCW fans were quite a bit more objective. These guys 'rooted' against WCW the entire NWO angle. And don't be fooled by their "i Was a fan of both rhetoric." These same guys were having a hard time sleeping at night because WWE was god awful during this period. All the old guys/draws of the WCW/NWO were threatening the WWE's very existence. These so-called 'objective' posters revising the best years of WCW from a WWE fanboy viewpoint should be completely ignored. For them, it's due to company loyalty. No different than a Red Sox fan believing that their World Series wins in the 2000s were the best of all time and better than any Yankees win.

I disagree with almost everything posted above. Goldberg was not the saving grace for WCW in 1997. That would be 1998. Just like Karl Malone's involvement. Goldberg was walking over jobbers for the two months he was relevant in 97. And really, minus the Streak, Goldberg was one of the most overrated parts of WCW during his time there. As for the 'cruiser's floundering, yeah right. Those guys were the most entertaining part of the show and they were all wrestling fantastic matches. They did flounder, however, but that would be a year later in 1998 when guys like Jericho and Guerrero were still not elevated..In 97 these guys were still gaining necessary momentum in great matches and feuds. As for the NWO bloating, NO. I know a lot of you WWE fans liked the NWO best when it was just Hogan, Nash and Hall. But the thing most of us loyal WCW fans appreciated was the 10-15 guy super group. The pecking order. The NWO wasn't a tag team or a four horsemen-like group. They were suppose to be half the company. That was the point. The NWO was at its best when it was at its most dominant with numbers. To think otherwise indicates a WWE loyalty.

As for 87-88 being a banner year for WWE. Sure. I won't disagree with that as I was only casually watching during this period. I just have my doubts that it was better than the 1997-1998 period in WCW. As for the assertion that Dibiase should have won the tournament, all I can do is just shake my head. Randy Savage was the best wrestler (and yes entertainer) in the company during Hogan's reign. Had Savage been in WCW/NWA he'd have as many titles (and fantastic matches) as Flair. If Hogan never existed, Savage would have carried the company that entire period just as well or better. Savage was a larger than life title holder who would have actually defended the title all week. I cannot for the life of me understandwhy anyone would think a mundane wrestler (a heel at that) like Dibiase should (instead of Savage) win 4 times on wrestling's greatest stage, Wrestlemania, and supplant Hogan as the company's top draw? The only other person in the world who could think such a thing would be Dibiase himself. I don't even believe Dibiase should have been in the main event. For the torch to be passed properly, Savage should have knocked Ted the mid card man Dibiase out in the semi finals and either beat Hogan or Andre cleanly in the main event. The way wrestling works today it would have been a no brainer that Savage pin one or the other. Having Savage beat Dibiase for the title wasted what could have been an even more epic moment for Savage..Can you imagine how Wrestlemania 4 would be regarded had Savage gone through 3 guys to get to the main event and overcame the odds to slay Andre (who would have had the bye) or pin the unpinnable Hogan (who would have had it had Andre not advanced). Savage deserved a win over them. Not a second rate Dibiase.

In the words of a certain intro... "You think you know me?"...

Where to start picking this apart. First off, I am no apologist for the WWF, I know that they were not on top in 1996/1997 but the seeds were there, it was better than it HAD been and the talent they were siging was FAR better for long term than those WCW were signing at the same time. Look how many of those Cruisers actually stayed? They all jumped first chance they could, cos they knew where they wanted to be...WCW was a means to an end for them.

The NWO WAS starting to bloat... as someone said, Rotunda, Vincent, Scott Norton, guys like that had no business being with the big dogs... the booking of the NWO just destroying everyone got old quickly, and WCW didn't handle Sting right with the pay off, no one can say they did.

Back then WCW was number one, but the momentum was already shifting and it was all avoidable... WCW could have won the war, but decisions made in 1997 had the knock on effect all the way through the rest of it's life. Likewise, decsions made by Vince in 96/97 over talent, direction and even video games and the like sowed the seeds for the victory, even if it took 2 or 3 years to come to fruition.

Your points on 1988 and DiBiase are dead wrong. DiBiase was not "bland" or Vanilla in the ring, he was an A+ talent as a heel in his UWF run and the MDM character simply cemented that. He wasn't "colourful" in the same way as Savage, he had Virgil instead of Elizabeth, he wore black trunks instead of Dayglo but they were the two opposites of the coin... Savage could not have carried the belt prior to 1988, he wasn't ready... it needed a Hogan for him to be the natural successor, Vince sadly decided on Warrior rather than Savage OR DiBiase and that more than anything did for Ted being a serious main eventer.

But it was decisions made, same as in 1997 in WCW that had the knock on effect and led to the WWF's downspin... Picking Warrior and Slaughter over DiBiase and Rude as champions cost them talents... Had Rude been champ in 1990, he would never have left... and when Bret and the like came into promience those feuds would have cemented them quicker and sold far better than Yoko... Both companies made similar mistakes at different times, the only common denominator is that Hogan was involved both times...

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The in-ring action sucked in 1997 WCW. The wrong guys were having the great matches. The cruiserweights were bringing the house down while the main event was filled with old washed up guys. The only main event level feud that produced good matches was DDP vs Savage. When Hogan was available, he was either having matches with has-beens like Piper or teaming up with celebrities. The Sting story was red hot but Sting did not wrestle at all that year and WCW also managed to fuck Sting/ Hogan up.

Onto the question the OP has asked, I always fluctuate between 1998, 2000 and 2001 depending on my mood. 2001 had some really good matches but the main two storylines, Austin turning heel and the Invasion angle, both flopped.

1998 was the year I got into wrestling and what an awesome year it was!!! Austin/ McMahon was in its full swing, Triple H and Rock were on the rise, Undertaker and Kane were doing a solid job. And then there was this inhuman creature called Mick Foley. The lower card to mid card was a bit weak but still OK. Remember, guys like Owen were in the midcard, so it cannot be too bad. The midcard did not really matter though. The matches at the top of the card were pretty solid almost always. I feel that this year is often underrated in terms of ring work. Austin's matches with Foley, Rock/ Triple H, Kane/ Taker were all good in my opinion.

2000 is the one I'm leaning towards right now. Angle, Jericho and Benoit had all entered the main event scene and they were putting up great matches with Rock and Triple H. The midcard and the undercard were solid too with the addition of guys like Eddie and Perry Saturn. The thing is, some of the big pay per views did not deliver in this year. Wrestlemania 16 was average and so was Survivor Series. Also while the buzz was still there, nothing compares to the excitement of being a wrestling fan during 1998.

So, it's either 1998 WWF or 2000 WWF. Take your pick.

 

[justtxyank]

Where to start picking this apart. First off, I am no apologist for the WWF, I know that they were not on top in 1996/1997 but the seeds were there, it was better than it HAD been and the talent they were siging was FAR better for long term than those WCW were signing at the same time. Look how many of those Cruisers actually stayed? They all jumped first chance they could, cos they knew where they wanted to be...WCW was a means to an end for them.

Not true at all. Nobody was jumping ship on WCW until the money situation got bad in WCW and the management/booking team was falling apart. Most of the cruiserweights didn't jump to the WWF at all (until after WCW was dead.) Jericho didn't WANT to leave to WCW either, he wasn't being used. He wanted to go where he would be appreciated and he was clearly not seen as a major player in WCW.

I will add to that point, for all the effort spent burning up WCW for not putting Benoit/Malenko/Eddie/Saturn and Jericho into the main event in WCW quickly enough, the WWF didn't keep any of them as full time main eventers with the exception of Jericho, who was often fluctuated to the upper mid card.

Not a single one of those guys could carry a company.

I also think you are both right about the nWo roster. It was too big at times but not considered bloated at others. Scott Norton was awesome as an nWo member. Vincent was garbage, Mike Rotunda just didn't have any cache with the audience for anyone to care. Bringing in the Japanese guys though worked, Norton worked.

WCW wasn't nearly the trainwreck that it's made out to be now that it has been Vincewashed in history, but it wasn't as good as WCW fans remember it either.

One thing that always kills me is the constant harping on the money being wasted. People will never understand that WCW was not a wrestling company, it was a wrestling company owned by a big corporate television empire. They had television executives sent in and those people made decisions on what was going to be done to increase the value of the television brand. I really wish people would learn to separate the decisions made by television executives who were involved and the wrestling aspect of it.

 

[justtxyank]

The in-ring action sucked in 1997 WCW. The wrong guys were having the great matches. The cruiserweights were bringing the house down while the main event was filled with old washed up guys. The only main event level feud that produced good matches was DDP vs Savage. When Hogan was available, he was either having matches with has-beens like Piper or teaming up with celebrities.

Stuff like this gets said all the time, but it would be like saying the WWF sucked in 1987 because Hogan v Andre was a poorly wrestled main event.

Crowds were white hot for WCW matches in 97. Luger, Hogan, Piper, The Giant, etc. were popping crowds at insane levels. You may not have liked the product and that's fine, but the one thing Vince McMahon has always been right about is that 95% of the audience doesn't care about "match quality" or "workrate." The match sells a good story between two (or more) workers they care about and the audience will eat it up.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Stuff like this gets said all the time, but it would be like saying the WWF sucked in 1987 because Hogan v Andre was a poorly wrestled main event.

Crowds were white hot for WCW matches in 97. Luger, Hogan, Piper, The Giant, etc. were popping crowds at insane levels. You may not have liked the product and that's fine, but the one thing Vince McMahon has always been right about is that 95% of the audience doesn't care about "match quality" or "workrate." The match sells a good story between two (or more) workers they care about and the audience will eat it up.

I don't think that the stories were too good either. Luger earned a title shot in what May but had an actual match in August. Piper came out of nowhere to challenge Hogan despite there being tons of WCW stars wanting to get their hands at Hogan. Also Piper beat Hogan, but in a non title match. Why is your champion having non title matches at the biggest pay per view of the company?

The nWo angle was hot and people liked their antics and their dominance. But the storytelling, at times was far from good.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Not true at all. Nobody was jumping ship on WCW until the money situation got bad in WCW and the management/booking team was falling apart. Most of the cruiserweights didn't jump to the WWF at all (until after WCW was dead.) Jericho didn't WANT to leave to WCW either, he wasn't being used. He wanted to go where he would be appreciated and he was clearly not seen as a major player in WCW.

I will add to that point, for all the effort spent burning up WCW for not putting Benoit/Malenko/Eddie/Saturn and Jericho into the main event in WCW quickly enough, the WWF didn't keep any of them as full time main eventers with the exception of Jericho, who was often fluctuated to the upper mid card.

Not a single one of those guys could carry a company.

I also think you are both right about the nWo roster. It was too big at times but not considered bloated at others. Scott Norton was awesome as an nWo member. Vincent was garbage, Mike Rotunda just didn't have any cache with the audience for anyone to care. Bringing in the Japanese guys though worked, Norton worked.

WCW wasn't nearly the trainwreck that it's made out to be now that it has been Vincewashed in history, but it wasn't as good as WCW fans remember it either.

One thing that always kills me is the constant harping on the money being wasted. People will never understand that WCW was not a wrestling company, it was a wrestling company owned by a big corporate television empire. They had television executives sent in and those people made decisions on what was going to be done to increase the value of the television brand. I really wish people would learn to separate the decisions made by television executives who were involved and the wrestling aspect of it.

I'd suggest reading the Jerico books... he made clear he ALWAYS wanted to be in WWF land... but WCW was the "step he had to take". When they didn't want to use him it just worked in his favour.

4 of their top cruisers left over one year before the buyout... 3 of the Radicalz and Jericho the year prior... They then replaced them with lesser guys like Evan Karagis etc... so don't make out nobody jumped.

The problem with the NWO was for every "good fit" they brought in 3 others who didn't were also part of it...

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Not true at all. Nobody was jumping ship on WCW until the money situation got bad in WCW and the management/booking team was falling apart. Most of the cruiserweights didn't jump to the WWF at all (until after WCW was dead.) Jericho didn't WANT to leave to WCW either, he wasn't being used. He wanted to go where he would be appreciated and he was clearly not seen as a major player in WCW.

I will add to that point, for all the effort spent burning up WCW for not putting Benoit/Malenko/Eddie/Saturn and Jericho into the main event in WCW quickly enough, the WWF didn't keep any of them as full time main eventers with the exception of Jericho, who was often fluctuated to the upper mid card.

Not a single one of those guys could carry a company.

I also think you are both right about the nWo roster. It was too big at times but not considered bloated at others. Scott Norton was awesome as an nWo member. Vincent was garbage, Mike Rotunda just didn't have any cache with the audience for anyone to care. Bringing in the Japanese guys though worked, Norton worked.

WCW wasn't nearly the trainwreck that it's made out to be now that it has been Vincewashed in history, but it wasn't as good as WCW fans remember it either.

One thing that always kills me is the constant harping on the money being wasted. People will never understand that WCW was not a wrestling company, it was a wrestling company owned by a big corporate television empire. They had television executives sent in and those people made decisions on what was going to be done to increase the value of the television brand. I really wish people would learn to separate the decisions made by television executives who were involved and the wrestling aspect of it.

Not Vincewashing this one because I remember watching all of this stuff live, but the pops began tapering off for certain main event level guys around 1997. Things started to wear thin. Like many businesses, the impacts of bad decisions do not occur immediately, and they didn't in the WCW's case either. Yes, there were still a lot of viewers. Yes, the crowds were packed and they could still get raucous for certain wrestlers and angles. It wasn't until Summer 1997 that the bad truly became noticable. But remember WCW hit a decline twice because of Hogan, and it was about to hit its second one around 1997.

1994 was a good year for WCW, mainly because of the arrival of Hogan and the Flair/Hogan feud which helped bring in PPV buys and crowds. 1994 gave way to 1995, however. Once the initial excitement of Hogan arriving wore off, fans had to turn their attention to the quality of the matches. There was a big influx of old WWF talent at that point too: Big Bubba Rogers, John Tenta, Jim Duggan, Brutus Beefcake. Savage joined too, though he was such a good worker that this actually helped. But all in all, the additions were net subtractions. The crowds and viewership started to tank again just as they had during pre-Hogan days. The PPVs turned into nonsensical messes filled with stars whose better days were behind them, and weren't good workers anyways.

1996 and the nWo angle resuscitated WCW. Hogan as heel was novel. Hall and Nash being in WCW and acting like they had invaded from WWF brought in this feeling like anything could happen. The cruiserweights helped really bolster the quality of matches. The thing was that they built a really pretty house that still had a lot of rotten wood. Nothing had changed...they just found a hot angle to run with for awhile. It amazes me that anyone can say with a straight face "Oh, WCW was great in 1997 but it was shit in 1998." WCW was well on its way to being shit in 1997 too...you just were ignoring the tell tale signs of a slowly sinking ship.

nWo was an amazing angle, but man....relying on Hogan and his ego really put a hurting on them.

Oh, and about WCW being a television brand. If it was treated as a television brand, then no wonder WCW died. Advertising only brings in so much money which is why most television shows have to really keep costs low -- there's a reason you don't see many big budget TV shows. When the cast of a show start demanding large salaries, studios start balking and really looking at the bottom line. It's why the reality shows do so well: low cost, high viewership. WCW paid its stars a lot of money, but did nothing to create the "next big thing" that would keep viewers watching. So, IMO, the criticism is very well founded.

 

[justtxyank]

I don't think that the stories were too good either. Luger earned a title shot in what May but had an actual match in August. Piper came out of nowhere to challenge Hogan despite there being tons of WCW stars wanting to get their hands at Hogan. Also Piper beat Hogan, but in a non title match. Why is your champion having non title matches at the biggest pay per view of the company?

The nWo angle was hot and people liked their antics and their dominance. But the storytelling, at times was far from good.

I don't think you actually watched WCW.

First of all, no matter how many times it gets said by people retroactively, Starrcade was not treated like WCW's top show under Eric Bischoff.

Secondly, Roddy Piper was is one of the 3 or 4 biggest draws in wrestling history, and his "coming out of nowhere" to challenge Hogan made perfect sense. He had a long history with Hogan, Hogan had just turned heel and was talking about being too big for the business. So who shows up? His old rival who happened to be a movie star AND a star of the NWA in the 70s and 80s.

But yes, some things were nonsensical. Welcome to professional wrestling where bookers get new orders quite often, wrestlers earn title shots and then suffer injuries, where champions hurt their knee and can't work main events, where big stars walk away to save their marriages in the middle of a program, where guys blow out ear drums, ankles and backs in the middle of feuds, etc. Sometimes nonsensical or big delays in booking are the result of no other choice.

I'd suggest reading the Jerico books... he made clear he ALWAYS wanted to be in WWF land... but WCW was the "step he had to take". When they didn't want to use him it just worked in his favour.

In the 90s, when WCW was paying the most money and was the biggest kid on the block, everyone claimed that was where they wanted to be. When the WWF became the big kid, and particularly now when they are the ONLY kid, suddenly the WWF is where everyone always wanted to be.

Sorry, I take both arguments with a grain of salt. Wrestlers want to go where they will be featured and where they will get paid, and for most of them the only reason being featured is all that important is because it impacts how much and how long they can expect to get paid. There have been countless wrestlers who have been jobbers or undercard stars when everyone thinks they could do more just for the paycheck.

4 of their top cruisers left over one year before the buyout... 3 of the Radicalz and Jericho the year prior... They then replaced them with lesser guys like Evan Karagis etc... so don't make out nobody jumped.

Nobody jumped until WCW was having problems financially. They were cutting back on contracts, the booker was being changed repeatedly, new management had been brought in at the top level, etc. But yes, like I said, people jumped, but nobody was jumping when WCW was the big dog. They started jumping after the ship started sinking with the exception of Jericho who jumped because he wasn't being used the way he wanted to be.

The problem with the NWO was for every "good fit" they brought in 3 others who didn't were also part of it...

nWo members:
Scott Hall- obviously makes sense
Kevin Nash- obviously makes sense
Hollywood Hogan- obviously makes sense
Ted DiBiase- made great sense and worked well in 96
The Giant- personally don't think this one made any sense at all
Syxx- made perfect sense
nWo Sting- made perfect sense as a storyline tool
Vincent- really stupid. Terrible waste, would have been better if Charles Wright had gotten the gig like originally planned.
Eric Bischoff- worked perfectly
Buff Bagwell- made perfect sense
Michael Wallstreet- didn't work, nobody cared about him at this point
Big Bubba Rogers- could have worked if he had been used differently, but I'll put it in the no sense class
Scott Norton- worked perfectly
Masahiro Chono- worked perfectly
Great Muta- worked perfectly
Randy Savage- it worked, but you could argue he shouldn't have joined
Tenzan- worked fine
Konnan- worked perfectly even if I think he was lame
Curt Hennig- was a brilliant move even if I would have liked to have seen him as a Horsemen
Rick Rude- worked, just a manager though. Little run in 1998 was a lot of fun
Louie Spicolli- hard to call him a member, but I'll put it in the pointless category
Dusty Rhodes- absolutely stupid stupid stupid
Brian Adams- I didn't care about him at all
The Disciple- Worked when Hogan's ego went out of control in 98 and split the nWo
Scott Steiner- worked brilliantly even if I don't like it

So out of the 25 members who played at least a somewhat significant role with the nWo between 1996 and the split in 1998, 6 of them were in the "not a good idea category" and you can maybe stretch it to 7 or 8 or even 9 if you want to call Savage a bad idea.

4 of the stupid choices didn't happen until 1998 just before the split which again backs up the argument that the whole "nwo was bloated after 1996" argument is made often by people who didn't watch it at the time and have just bought into a weird revisionist history where the nWo was a bad thing for WCW.

As to the other poster who said the wheels came off WCW in 1997, that's just silly. 1997 was such a "wheels coming off" year that it led WCW into the biggest year of its entire history profit wise in 1998. It was such a bad year that the ratings were getting better as the year went got later.

Sure, the middle bogged down as they tried to stretch out the middle of the year, but that again is a common occurrence in wrestling companies, or heck, regular tv shows.

WCW had crappy years, but the nWo years were not them until 1998 depending on how you feel about Wolfpac v Hollwood.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

As to the other poster who said the wheels came off WCW in 1997, that's just silly. 1997 was such a "wheels coming off" year that it led WCW into the biggest year of its entire history profit wise in 1998. It was such a bad year that the ratings were getting better as the year went got later.

Sure, the middle bogged down as they tried to stretch out the middle of the year, but that again is a common occurrence in wrestling companies, or heck, regular tv shows.

WCW had crappy years, but the nWo years were not them until 1998 depending on how you feel about Wolfpac v Hollwood.

So WCW went from good year in 1994, to shitty year in 1995, to good half year in 1996 (summer onwards) to great year (by your standards) in 1997 to good half year in 1998 to shitty year in 1999 and ever after going forward.

And you see nothing wrong in the management of the angles or the company during 1997?

Essentially you had a two year run of the nWo, and the company fell completely apart outside of it...yet, this...magically....was the pinnacle of WCW?

I call bullshit.

Also...nobody gave two shits about nWo Japan. Be a little honest about that.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I don't think you actually watched WCW.

First of all, no matter how many times it gets said by people retroactively, Starrcade was not treated like WCW's top show under Eric Bischoff.

Secondly, Roddy Piper was is one of the 3 or 4 biggest draws in wrestling history, and his "coming out of nowhere" to challenge Hogan made perfect sense. He had a long history with Hogan, Hogan had just turned heel and was talking about being too big for the business. So who shows up? His old rival who happened to be a movie star AND a star of the NWA in the 70s and 80s.

But yes, some things were nonsensical. Welcome to professional wrestling where bookers get new orders quite often, wrestlers earn title shots and then suffer injuries, where champions hurt their knee and can't work main events, where big stars walk away to save their marriages in the middle of a program, where guys blow out ear drums, ankles and backs in the middle of feuds, etc. Sometimes nonsensical or big delays in booking are the result of no other choice.



In the 90s, when WCW was paying the most money and was the biggest kid on the block, everyone claimed that was where they wanted to be. When the WWF became the big kid, and particularly now when they are the ONLY kid, suddenly the WWF is where everyone always wanted to be.

Sorry, I take both arguments with a grain of salt. Wrestlers want to go where they will be featured and where they will get paid, and for most of them the only reason being featured is all that important is because it impacts how much and how long they can expect to get paid. There have been countless wrestlers who have been jobbers or undercard stars when everyone thinks they could do more just for the paycheck.



Nobody jumped until WCW was having problems financially. They were cutting back on contracts, the booker was being changed repeatedly, new management had been brought in at the top level, etc. But yes, like I said, people jumped, but nobody was jumping when WCW was the big dog. They started jumping after the ship started sinking with the exception of Jericho who jumped because he wasn't being used the way he wanted to be.



nWo members:
Scott Hall- obviously makes sense
Kevin Nash- obviously makes sense
Hollywood Hogan- obviously makes sense
Ted DiBiase- made great sense and worked well in 96
The Giant- personally don't think this one made any sense at all
Syxx- made perfect sense
nWo Sting- made perfect sense as a storyline tool
Vincent- really stupid. Terrible waste, would have been better if Charles Wright had gotten the gig like originally planned.
Eric Bischoff- worked perfectly
Buff Bagwell- made perfect sense
Michael Wallstreet- didn't work, nobody cared about him at this point
Big Bubba Rogers- could have worked if he had been used differently, but I'll put it in the no sense class
Scott Norton- worked perfectly
Masahiro Chono- worked perfectly
Great Muta- worked perfectly
Randy Savage- it worked, but you could argue he shouldn't have joined
Tenzan- worked fine
Konnan- worked perfectly even if I think he was lame
Curt Hennig- was a brilliant move even if I would have liked to have seen him as a Horsemen
Rick Rude- worked, just a manager though. Little run in 1998 was a lot of fun
Louie Spicolli- hard to call him a member, but I'll put it in the pointless category
Dusty Rhodes- absolutely stupid stupid stupid
Brian Adams- I didn't care about him at all
The Disciple- Worked when Hogan's ego went out of control in 98 and split the nWo
Scott Steiner- worked brilliantly even if I don't like it

So out of the 25 members who played at least a somewhat significant role with the nWo between 1996 and the split in 1998, 6 of them were in the "not a good idea category" and you can maybe stretch it to 7 or 8 or even 9 if you want to call Savage a bad idea.

4 of the stupid choices didn't happen until 1998 just before the split which again backs up the argument that the whole "nwo was bloated after 1996" argument is made often by people who didn't watch it at the time and have just bought into a weird revisionist history where the nWo was a bad thing for WCW.

As to the other poster who said the wheels came off WCW in 1997, that's just silly. 1997 was such a "wheels coming off" year that it led WCW into the biggest year of its entire history profit wise in 1998. It was such a bad year that the ratings were getting better as the year went got later.

Sure, the middle bogged down as they tried to stretch out the middle of the year, but that again is a common occurrence in wrestling companies, or heck, regular tv shows.

WCW had crappy years, but the nWo years were not them until 1998 depending on how you feel about Wolfpac v Hollwood.

So you're saying a stable of 25 members ISN'T bloated? Really?

Saying Jericho "wanted into WCW" is just like saying Trips wanted to be there... none of them actually did and got out at their earliest opportunities for the CHANCE to be someone in the WWF. Trips famously negotiated a shorter deal than the norm, turning down the famed "guaranteed money" for the chance to get to WWF as soon as possible. He saw the Hogan train a-coming and didn't want to be on it for long.

Benoit and the Radicalz didn't leave for monetary reasons, they left because they had seen what Jericho, Foley, Austin and Big Show had been able to do and wanted it for themselves. That Benoit and Sullivan had issues was just the mechanism that allowed them out...if anything thank Mike Graham for famously threatening Benoit so it became a HR issue, I am sure Perry, Eddie and Dean did.

WCW was, for most of those ECW guys the option they took if Vince wasn't knocking their door. Remember Benoit had been a part of the WWF briefly in 1995 and they'd passed on him...he was the original idea for the "Ringmaster" character and worked with DiBiase during those tryouts. Those who started in WCW did so with an eye on moving "up", if they got paid bigger bucks than they could get elsewhere then it was a bonus. The only ones with a "different" mentality are the ones who sat out on their AOL/TW contracts post buyouts rather than jump. The Goldbergs, Scott Steiners and Sting's of the piece. Most guys whose contracts were part of the buyout were elated to finally get the chance to go "up north" and would have loved to have sooner as they did get genuine opportunity. Nearly ALL of the WCW acquisitions got some kind of title or push, even guys like Lance Storm and Mike Awesome. Someone like Shane Helms was itching to be on the other side...and he got to beat the Rock once he got there... some blew their chances like Bagwell but all of them wanted that shot more than WCW's money as the buyout and the laws around them allowed them to sit home... but if you're well paid to be unhappy, few were gonna chose unemployment or the indy circuit.


You have a hard on for that period and that is fine, but it was not this perfect period in terms of wrestling or what WCW did... they basically hit a lucky formula and milked it while WWF had become stale and were adjusting their own formula... some of 1996-1997 was EXCELLENT in WCW but a lot wasn't but it didn't actually matter at the time cos the product of wrestling was so hot, both companies could do well in spite of each other.

 

[justtxyank]

So you're saying a stable of 25 members ISN'T bloated? Really?

A stable is only bloated if it isn't working. Considering WCW was making more money and had higher ratings than at any point in its history during the nWo run (and more than the WWF as well) it's hard to say it wasn't working.

There's no precise answer to your question. A stable of five can be bloated if it isn't be used well or logically and a stable of 6 can need more people depending on usage.

No, I don't think the nWo had a problem with "bloat." I think the nWo had a problem with using some crappy wrestlers in it at times that had no appeal. Vincent, Stevie Ray, Brian Adams, Ray Taylor and Michael Wallstreet were bad not because they were too many but because they were bad. People didn't care about them. The Corporation had somewhere around 20 people in the WWF and it didn't feel bloated.

Saying Jericho "wanted into WCW" is just like saying Trips wanted to be there... none of them actually did and got out at their earliest opportunities for the CHANCE to be someone in the WWF. Trips famously negotiated a shorter deal than the norm, turning down the famed "guaranteed money" for the chance to get to WWF as soon as possible. He saw the Hogan train a-coming and didn't want to be on it for long.

Again, this is just revisionist garbage. Of course Triple H, the husband of the daughter of Vince McMahon and the future owner of the WWF claims he always wanted to be in the WWF. However, if WCW had given him the push he wanted he would have stayed in WCW. Benoit, who you mention later, had worked WCW as far back as 1992 and 93.

I'm not going to bother quoting the rest of your post. As to me having a hard on for this era, this isn't my hard on era. My preferred wrestling is 80s into early 1990s or Japanese wrestling in the 90s.

It's just a revisionist myth that everyone was dying to go work for the WWF. Prior to the WWF becoming the only game in town if you wanted to get real money, wrestlers did not make the claim that the WWF was where they wanted to be. I mean that may have been the case for some of them, but most wrestlers wanted to be wherever they would get the biggest paycheck and the most burn.

I'm sort of being backed into defending WCW to the death here and I don't really want that position. They obviously had issues and were not perfect and I would never say otherwise.

 

[mizowns]

5 best IMO

1988, 1990, 1996, , 1998, 2002

All good years.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It's equally revisionist to say everyone wanted the most money. That level of money wasn't even on offer until 1996-1997 unless you were Hogan, Nash, Hall or Bret... Where it went wrong was safe harbour so suddenly EVERYONE at each level was getting their deals bumped up everytime a colleague got a payrise to keep them sweet. ATM Eric... but that wasn't widespread until 1999-2000, once some bigger names had started to jump...and succeed.

No way would someone like Hunter have wanted more money over opportunity...but in WCW it was academic cos he wouldn't have got to work with Hogan anyway, he'd have been where Dustin Rhodes and Austin ended up... released so he and a few others over the period took more proactive stances.

At the end of the day it became a personal decision for each talent...take the money or be creatively fulfilled you weren't getting both in WCW unless you were a top 5 talent there... in the WWF you could, even as far back as the early Hogan era, get both... killer feuds AND make a lot of money through merch.

It was only when Nash and Hall killed the biz with Safe Harbour that it became about "what he got, and if someone else gets more...I get that too or I don't lace up my boots" THAT was WCW in 1996 and 1997, at least in the WWF you did see guys move up... Foley, Simmons, Austin, Goldust, Brian Armstrong, Hunter... all were "WCW guys" who got pushed AND got a LOT of dough out of it AND creatively good stuff. Once guys saw that a Mick Foley could win the WWF title, not one of them really wanted to stay.

The Corporate Ministry was bloated too but together only a relatively short time... it was a way to break up both stables ultimately not to be the focus for over a year.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I don't think you actually watched WCW.

First of all, no matter how many times it gets said by people retroactively, Starrcade was not treated like WCW's top show under Eric Bischoff.

I think it was. Sting vs Hogan, the biggest story of the year, was booked for Starrcade as was the end of Goldberg's streak.

Secondly, Roddy Piper was is one of the 3 or 4 biggest draws in wrestling history, and his "coming out of nowhere" to challenge Hogan made perfect sense. He had a long history with Hogan, Hogan had just turned heel and was talking about being too big for the business. So who shows up? His old rival who happened to be a movie star AND a star of the NWA in the 70s and 80s.

Yes, Piper was Hogan's biggest nemesis back in the 1980s. What business does he have in 1997? Hogan here was talking about taking WCW down and there was no WCW wrestler ready to face him.

But that is not even the worst part. I can accept Piper confronting Hogan. But, why is the match not for the title? Mostly singles matches at the main event level involving the champion are for the title. In fact, I'd argue that that is the case 99 percent of the time. Hogan wanted to set up a feud with Piper because he thought that feud would draw money. To set up that feud he had to lose the match. But he was not willing to lose the title.

But yes, some things were nonsensical. Welcome to professional wrestling where bookers get new orders quite often, wrestlers earn title shots and then suffer injuries, where champions hurt their knee and can't work main events, where big stars walk away to save their marriages in the middle of a program, where guys blow out ear drums, ankles and backs in the middle of feuds, etc. Sometimes nonsensical or big delays in booking are the result of no other choice.

Yet these nonsensical things were most prevalant in 1997 WCW more than in any other promotion in any given year. And most of these were booking decisions and not injuries. None that I know of anyway.

Look, while I may be coming across as a WCW hater, I'm not. I am just saying that 1997 WCW does not deserve to be in the running for the best year of a promotion ever due to these inconsistencies and the fact that WCW managed to blow Sting vs nWo by the end of it.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

@justtxyank - you make some valid points but I do have to point out that Sean Waltman made the jump back to WWE in 1998 and Paul Wight, the Giant, became the Big Show in early 1999, both before financial problems set in at WCW; Steven Regal jumped in '98 also. So there were wrestlers willing to leave WCW to join WWE in that era, including, in the case of Wight, a WCW main-eventer.

Also a genuine question: if Starrcade wasn't treated as WCW's top ppv under Bischoff, what was? I watched WCW between 1991-94 on their Worldwide show (it was every Saturday afternoon in the UK) and again from 1997-the end on Bravo, with a gap in the middle (thankfully, otherwise the Dungeon of Doom may have put me off wrestling for good!) so it's a genuine question

 

[justtxyank]

@justtxyank - you make some valid points but I do have to point out that Sean Waltman made the jump back to WWE in 1998 and Paul Wight, the Giant, became the Big Show in early 1999, both before financial problems set in at WCW; Steven Regal jumped in '98 also. So there were wrestlers willing to leave WCW to join WWE in that era, including, in the case of Wight, a WCW main-eventer.

Sean Waltman was fired when he hurt his neck as a way to send a message to Hall and Nash. He didn't jump ship.

Steven Regal was fired for drug problems, went to the WWF and then jumped back to WCW.

Paul Wight was discarded by WCW (stupidly). He had gained a lot of weight and after his program with Nash was done he had basically become a jobber to the stars type. He was a member of nWo Hollywood that was used to take pinfalls in high profile feuds.

Also a genuine question: if Starrcade wasn't treated as WCW's top ppv under Bischoff, what was? I watched WCW between 1991-94 on their Worldwide show (it was every Saturday afternoon in the UK) and again from 1997-the end on Bravo, with a gap in the middle (thankfully, otherwise the Dungeon of Doom may have put me off wrestling for good!) so it's a genuine question

Halloween Havoc and Superbrawl. To the poster who mentioned Sting/Hogan being at Starrcade, yes, it was, with an indecisive finish setting up the main event at Superbrawl. Bischoff was not in charge for Starrcade 98 so that is separate from my point. The non title match with Piper at Starrcade 96 was to set up...Superbrawl. The Hogan Savage match was at...Halloween Havoc. The Hogan Warrior match was at...Halloween Havoc. Sting vs Bret was at...Halloween Havoc. Nash vs Hall...Halloween Havoc. Hollywood Hogan vs Ric Flair...Superbrawl, the retirement match between Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair...Halloween Havoc. Hogan vs Vader...Superbrawl. Mr. T's WCW wrestling match...Halloween Havoc. Sting vs Hogan rematches after Starrcade...Superbrawl and Halloween Havoc. Hogan's title loss to The Giant...Halloween Havoc. Eddie vs Rey title v Mask...Halloween Havoc. Luger v Sting for the title...Superbrawl. Jake Roberts 1 WCW match...Halloween Havoc. Savage v Page finale, Halloween Havoc. Roddy Piper debut...Halloween Havoc. Scott Steiner joins the nWo...Superbrawl. Rick Steiner finally beats Scott Steiner...Halloween Havoc.

Multiple sources have talked about how Starrcade being at the end of the year hurt it and how Bischoff preferred Halloween Havoc and wanted to turn Superbrawl into Wrestlemania. It just didn't work.

But, let me back off here. I'm not arguing WCW 97 for best year ever by a promotion, just arguing against the attacks that make it look worse than it actually was.

 

[justtxyank]

Yet these nonsensical things were most prevalant in 1997 WCW more than in any other promotion in any given year. And most of these were booking decisions and not injuries. None that I know of anyway.

See, something like this is just flat our ridiculous. Looking back through every year of wrestling you think WCW 1997 was the most nonsensical year ever? LOL

WWF having years where they had car bombs killing the owner, men shooting lightning at each other, surviving burning caskets, raping dead bodies, kidnapping people and forcing them to get married, women winning matches against men with just punches and handstands to win championships, wrestling clowns and tax collectors and voodoo priests and hockey players and minotaurs and roosters and turkeys and owners winning championships in battle royals, hotshotting titles, changing royal rumble winners multiple times, changing Wrestlemania main events in weird ways because of poor decisions earlier in the year, main eventers squashing people, the inVasion...

WCW having years like 1995...having Robocop...

I mean the list could go on but I'm tired of typing.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

Sean Waltman was fired when he hurt his neck as a way to send a message to Hall and Nash. He didn't jump ship.

Steven Regal was fired for drug problems, went to the WWF and then jumped back to WCW.

Paul Wight was discarded by WCW (stupidly). He had gained a lot of weight and after his program with Nash was done he had basically become a jobber to the stars type. He was a member of nWo Hollywood that was used to take pinfalls in high profile feuds.



Halloween Havoc and Superbrawl. To the poster who mentioned Sting/Hogan being at Starrcade, yes, it was, with an indecisive finish setting up the main event at Superbrawl. Bischoff was not in charge for Starrcade 98 so that is separate from my point. The non title match with Piper at Starrcade 96 was to set up...Superbrawl. The Hogan Savage match was at...Halloween Havoc. The Hogan Warrior match was at...Halloween Havoc. Sting vs Bret was at...Halloween Havoc. Nash vs Hall...Halloween Havoc. Hollywood Hogan vs Ric Flair...Superbrawl, the retirement match between Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair...Halloween Havoc. Hogan vs Vader...Superbrawl. Mr. T's WCW wrestling match...Halloween Havoc. Sting vs Hogan rematches after Starrcade...Superbrawl and Halloween Havoc. Hogan's title loss to The Giant...Halloween Havoc. Eddie vs Rey title v Mask...Halloween Havoc. Luger v Sting for the title...Superbrawl. Jake Roberts 1 WCW match...Halloween Havoc. Savage v Page finale, Halloween Havoc. Roddy Piper debut...Halloween Havoc. Scott Steiner joins the nWo...Superbrawl. Rick Steiner finally beats Scott Steiner...Halloween Havoc.

Multiple sources have talked about how Starrcade being at the end of the year hurt it and how Bischoff preferred Halloween Havoc and wanted to turn Superbrawl into Wrestlemania. It just didn't work.

But, let me back off here. I'm not arguing WCW 97 for best year ever by a promotion, just arguing against the attacks that make it look worse than it actually was.

Thanks for the reply, interesting insight into mid-90s WCW.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

See, something like this is just flat our ridiculous. Looking back through every year of wrestling you think WCW 1997 was the most nonsensical year ever? LOL

WWF having years where they had car bombs killing the owner, men shooting lightning at each other, surviving burning caskets, raping dead bodies, kidnapping people and forcing them to get married, women winning matches against men with just punches and handstands to win championships, wrestling clowns and tax collectors and voodoo priests and hockey players and minotaurs and roosters and turkeys and owners winning championships in battle royals, hotshotting titles, changing royal rumble winners multiple times, changing Wrestlemania main events in weird ways because of poor decisions earlier in the year, main eventers squashing people, the inVasion...

WCW having years like 1995...having Robocop...

I mean the list could go on but I'm tired of typing.

Um...I never said that it was the most nonsensical year ever, just nonsensical enough to not warrant a mention as one of the best years ever. We are talking about the best years in the business and 1997 WCW is pretty bad when compared to them. The nonsensical stuff that you mentioned took place in the years that will never find a mention among the best years for the business.

I mean, seriously, if the main belt is not a part of the storyline, if it is not being defended, if the champion is more interested in hanging out with celebrities than defending his title, then why the hell should I even watch this? Sure, the champion is a heel and he will go to great lengths to avoid challengers but no one is putting up a stiff opposition either. No one showed even the desire(except Luger) to get the belt or to beat Hogan apart from Sting.

Mind you, WCW had a PPV every month and how many title matches did we have in that year? 3. Do you think that that is because of injuries to wrestlers or a bad booking decision?

Look the nWo coming in and taking over was cool but there was never an endgame, and without that, no matter how hot the story is, I just cannot rate it as the greatest angle ever and 1997 as the best year ever. \

Halloween Havoc and Superbrawl. To the poster who mentioned Sting/Hogan being at Starrcade, yes, it was, with an indecisive finish setting up the main event at Superbrawl.

Two things here:

1. I am not so sure that the indecisive finish would have taken place had it not been for the screwjob. In that case, you can hardly say that the rematch at Superbrawl was the plan all along.

2. It was a sucky decision because the story should have been about Sting destroying Hogan and the nWo because that is how awesome he was made out to be.

 

[Revenant87]

WWF - 1987, 1998, 2000
WCW - 1989, 1992, 1997

 

[Mac]

I'm going with the WWF in 1997. From an in ring standpoint and storyline standpoint everything just clicked. Basically from February '97 on the WWF was putting on great shows. You had the rise of Steve Austin, Canada/USA angle, Taker/Bearer angle and the rise of DX.

 

[MrTDG]

In a lot of ways, this debate is breaking down not only into personal taste (which is obvious), but also age. This Attitude Era vs. NWO/WCW argument is a good one and there are valid points for both sides, but for me, the ones who are solely fixated on that do not understand just how good JCP was from 1985 to 1987 and the WWF from 1987 to 1989.

Too many newer fans discount those early years because of the jobber matches and other differences with the presentation of the product. However the jobber matches served a purpose in that they helped guys get over in the ring and made each superstar look downright dominate, good, or average.

There were certain guys who would come in and hit their signature moves on a jobber and the match is done in like 80 seconds. Right there, you automatically knew this person was supposed to be a force. Then there were other guys who would get in and actually wrestling with the jobbers and there was a little bit of a struggle. Automatically you knew this guy, although a "superstar", was not going to be in anyone's top 10 anytime soon. And it was all accomplished without 15 minute promos, run-ins, or anything else. In that era, both JCP and the WWF did a fantastic job of getting characters over and communicating who they were to the crowd in only a fraction of the time.

The story lines were fantastic, the matches delivered (especially in JCP). You didn't get great buildup for a dud of a main event (something WCW was constantly guilty of during their peak). When guys were given mic time, they made their point very quickly which IMO led to both companies (WWF and JCP) having many established characters. So much time is wasted on TV, it's ridiculous.

Another overlooked era which was brought up by another poster was WCW 1991 until 1993. Basically the era without Ric Flair. No disrespect to the Nature Boy, but for the WCW years, the run they had with Sting, Cactus Jack, the Steiners, Rick Rude, Vader, Williams/Gordy, Ron Simmons, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Madusa, Paul E. Dangerously, Brian Pillman, etc was my favorite era of WCW. Beach Blast 1992 to this day is still one of my favorite PPVs. As I got older, I appreciated their product even more compared to what the WWF was offering at the time because the action was that much better and I didn't go so much for the cartoonish characters the Federation was offering. If they had ANY kind of direction at the top during this era and support, they really could've overtaken the WWF.

The last year I'll offer up is ECW either in 1996 or 1998. In 1996, there was the buildup of Taz, the return of the Franchise, the luchas, introduction of Rob Van Dam, the Dudleys, and Tommy Dreamer/Raven feud. There was a lot to like. In 1998, Rob Van Dam was getting white hot, Taz was still on a roll, the Dudleys were super over as heels, and they were still bringing in top talent from around the world like Mike Awesome, Hayabusa, reintroduced Hakushi, got Al Snow over with Head, and Shane Douglas managed to pull off the non-fighting champ with Taz carrying the FTW belt (take notes WWE).