Being drafted to Raw = 50% chance of being released?

Amarillo del Bosque Verde

The straightedge Irishman.
I was recently thinking about this and it made me think...aren't half of the stars sent to raw in the draft just released anyway???? Let's go year by year...

2004: The first draft...Chuck Palumbo and Albert were sent to Raw and had a couple of Heat matches and that was that.

2005: Don't get me started on 2005. There was Kenzo Suzuki, Hiroko, Danny Basham, AND Mark Jindrak. They were all released 1-2 days later.

2007:Sandman was the only one released after being crushed by Kennedy.

2008:Chuck Palumbo (again), and Deuce (with a short run as Sim Snuka)

And finally...

2009:MIIIIIIIISTEEEERRR KENNEDY...and THE Brian Kendrick

So yeah if you see that all of those wrestlers were released shortly after the draft I think being sent to raw is a death sentence if you're a lower-card superstar.

What do you think?
 
I gotta admit the more I look at it, the more I have to agree with you. Let's just hope that Christian going to Raw would break that curse, or at least he'd be able to move back to TNA and resurface there in Main Event Status. I personally thought Christian was going to be the guy that was attacking Aj Styles all along. But hey this is a WWE forum section so enough of that.

Yes Mr. Kennedy and TBK both fired after their drafts to raw......sad too....both great performers and really nice people in person.
 
Well... that happened to some midcarders... but the same happened in Smackdown: Trevor Murdoch, Chris Masters, Eugene, Mohammed Hassan.

The case with A-Train, if I remember, was that he got injured. Mr. Kennedy: ALWAYS injured.. and The Brian Kendrick has recognized that he did everything he could to get fired.

What I think is that some wrestlers were not prepared to be in RAW. Cena, The Miz, and perhaps Sheamus, proved that they indeed were. I hope that MVP gets pushed again up.
 
Well it seems to me that getting drafted to RAW is more of a becoming a Jobber. Thats all seems what happens to those guys mentioned. Evan Bourne to Raw.. JOBBING... SWAGGER... JOBBING... all except the MIZ CUZ HE IS AWESOME!!!
 
I was recently thinking about this and it made me think...aren't half of the stars sent to raw in the draft just released anyway???? Let's go year by year...

2004: The first draft...Chuck Palumbo and Albert were sent to Raw and had a couple of Heat matches and that was that.

2005: Don't get me started on 2005. There was Kenzo Suzuki, Hiroko, Danny Basham, AND Mark Jindrak. They were all released 1-2 days later.

2007:Sandman was the only one released after being crushed by Kennedy.

2008:Chuck Palumbo (again), and Deuce (with a short run as Sim Snuka)

And finally...

2009:MIIIIIIIISTEEEERRR KENNEDY...and THE Brian Kendrick

So yeah if you see that all of those wrestlers were released shortly after the draft I think being sent to raw is a death sentence if you're a lower-card superstar.

What do you think?

So in the space of 3 years you have listed 5 releases, and that apparently accounts for 50% of WWE releases? Get real, getting drafted to RAW means you are less likely to become a star, look at the star power there compared to ECW, or even Smackdown, but it certainly doesn't mean you will get released. And the two you listed in 2009... Kennedy fucked up AGAIN so got released and The Brian Kendrick just got himself fired.
 
i think if you get signed to Raw it's more likely of a 50% chance of jobbing/not getting any matches.
It reminds me of Festus. He maybe got 1 match plus some backstage stuff when Trump was on there, but then he disappeared and reemerged as Drew Gallows.
 
It is pretty likely, especially with the smaller name guys like Palumbo.

I think part of the issue may be that because WWE see Raw as their best show, the thought process might be "Well, if our wonderful writers can't get them over on the flagship show, they can't get over anywhere". It's an overcrowded show as it is, I wouldn't be surprised if they know they're gonna release guys, so they get them to Raw to job to some bigger names on the way out, so as not to hurt any "keepers".
 
So in the space of 3 years you have listed 5 releases, and that apparently accounts for 50% of WWE releases? Get real, getting drafted to RAW means you are less likely to become a star, look at the star power there compared to ECW, or even Smackdown, but it certainly doesn't mean you will get released. And the two you listed in 2009... Kennedy fucked up AGAIN so got released and The Brian Kendrick just got himself fired.

While I agree with you that 3 releases doesn't account for 50%, I have to disagree with you about there not being star power on ECW. The current rosters aren't stars YET, though I do feel there is a lot of potential. I think a move to SD! or RAW could do wonders for Shelton Benjamin and Christian, and Yoshi Tatsu could be end up being a jobber or a gimmick like Santino, but I really hope not. As far as Goldust, Regal, and Helms (I'm actually somewhat of a fan), they've been in the business how long now and are still low-card? They're going to stay there. Goldust is a WWE/WHC title away from being a triple crown champion (possibly grand slam, but I'm not sure about that at the moment), but he never will be. Same with Regal, he's held European, HC, tag, and I'm not sure about a top title, and he's not going to. Helms....with his super hero gimmick, he's doomed to be a joke/low-card unless they make him part of SES.

Those are just my thoughts for what its worth.
 
1. Wrestling is fake.

2. They're not SIGNED to any brand. Since it's all staged, Vince McMahon assigns them to a show, and that's the show they're on.

3. Ken Kennedy was injured all the time? What about Roidtista? He gets injured like twice a month. You wanna talk about injury prone, talk about Roidtista. I really believe the only reason he still has a job is because he's friends with Triple H. I also believe he's the only one who gets away with doing steroids.

4. Most of those guys who got released got released because Vince McMahon didn't have anything for them to do storyline-wise.
 
To be fair, Kennedy had it coming to him with all his injuries, Snuka should have been released before he even won the tag titles but was moved over to be a part of Legacy as a mercy move and it failed horribly, and Kendrick was apparently a real douche backstage who had attitude and pot problems.

But...I'd say the more pressing issue is how often they draft someone to Raw that they're high on, then the writers actually have to put the work in for them and they fail miserably, so they end up doing nothing with them. Then, because they're doing nothing, they start to say that the person wasn't as good as they thought.

The cases of that are much higher than just being released. Hell, look at the number of people that are currently infected with such a problem on Raw. They move over Evan Bourne who was one of the hottest things on ECW and he does nothing but job. They bring over Jack Swagger, who was damn near carrying the brand for months, and he quickly becomes a jobber. They bring Mark Henry over and stick him in a tag team that doesn't stick around. Chris Masters is brought back to the WWE and put on Raw, and he's wrestled the majority of his matches on Superstars. They move Carlito and Primo, the unified tag champs, that are doing a great job, and within no time they've lost the titles, they break up but have no feud, and Carlito is relegated to backstage appearances and Primo isn't even on TV long enough to job. They bring over the Bella twins and Eve...for some reason, since they're obviously blind to how much they suck...and Eve's on par with Jillian, with the Bella twins literally only accompanying guest hosts to the ring. And finally, there's MVP, a guy who was riding into the main event, comes over to Raw, loses his US title, and struggles to stay above water the rest of the time, until recently.

It seems like if the powers-that-be like you and you're not currently on Raw, you should pray to whatever god you believe in that they DON'T draft you over to Raw, because then you don't have the safety net of the ECW or Smackdown writers to actually book you in ways where you can show off your skills. Instead, you'll find yourself struggling in the midcard while they continue doing what they always do on Raw - focus on the top 5 names, and then sprinkle in the rest of the people every so often.
 
1. Wrestling is fake.

Amazing observation there buddy. You just come to that conclusion, or have you been keeping it a secret for all this time?

2. They're not SIGNED to any brand. Since it's all staged, Vince McMahon assigns them to a show, and that's the show they're on.

Captain Obvious strikes again. However, you do realize that when you are assigned to RAW then you (mostly) only travel with the RAW talent, work the RAW shows, and take part in RAW storylines, and the same holds true for SD. Therefore, when you are traded from one show to the other, while yes, you do still work for the same company, you are now working with an entirely different set of writers, crew, performers...pretty much the only thing that stays the same is the name on the paycheck.

3. Ken Kennedy was injured all the time? What about Roidtista? He gets injured like twice a month. You wanna talk about injury prone, talk about Roidtista. I really believe the only reason he still has a job is because he's friends with Triple H. I also believe he's the only one who gets away with doing steroids.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Batista gets injured a lot. Ok, fine. Did he get traded to RAW then released shortly thereafter? No? Then he's irrelevant to the discussion. Better question. Did he have to give up a main event push to miss months due to an injury, make a huge reappearance on RAW months later and call out the champion that night, only to get injured again in his first match back, that very same night? And almost cause an injury to the champion in the process? No. Kennedy did though. That's why he's on TNA now...

4. Most of those guys who got released got released because Vince McMahon didn't have anything for them to do storyline-wise.

Wow...finally, your fourth and final point actually has something to do with the topic of the thread. I'm impressed. Most bad posters aren't capable of that much.

Now..on to my thoughts on this topic.

Its an interesting idea on first inspection, to think that being drafted to RAW is a death sentence on your career. However, when you look at it from a wider angle, maybe not so much. RAW has always been the flagship show, and therefore generally has the deepest talent pool. There is usually quite a bit of talent on the RAW roster that gets under-utilized, or ignored completely. Once a year, these guys get an opportunity to get a fresh start by being drafted to SD or ECW.

In return, several performers go to RAW. Usually one or two big names, such as Cena, HHH when he went back, Big Show, guys that you know are going to immediately be in the main event scene or at the very least the upper mid-card. Then you have guys like Shelton Benjamin, Miz, Carlito, guys who were in the mid-card on whichever show they were on who have a shot to prove themselves on the flagship show. Sometimes it works out, as it did for Miz. Sometimes they start strong, such as Shelton getting a clean win over HHH in his first RAW match, but then taper off due to a lack of skill, personality, or a combination thereof. In Shelton's case, he had all of the skill in the world, but no charisma to make it work. But his skill kept him working with the company and eventually landed him on ECW.

Then you have guys who are moved primarily, I believe, to make room for the new talent going to the other shows before being released. Look at the names mentioned in the OP. Chuck Palumbo, Kenzo Suzuki, Hiroko, Danny Basham, and Mark Jindrak. More than likely every one of these guys had their pink slips filled out already, and were moved to RAW first for the sole purpose of filling out the draft, as opposed to being fired from the show they were already on.

Think about it: you know that you have four guys you need to get rid of, you also know that the draft is coming up in a couple of weeks. There are several guys you want to move to SD and ECW, but only one or two you really want to bring in to RAW. Do you fire these four guys now, then move two or three you didn't really want to move over to RAW so the draft doesn't seem too lopsided, or move those four guys over in the draft and wait a few weeks to let them go?

And then you have the guys like Kennedy, who are moved to RAW, get the huge push, but can't live up to it for one reason or another. In Kennedy's case, it was due to carelessness in the ring.

Take a look at some of the most recent moves to RAW. Miz moved over and started his "feud" with Cena. He worked his ass off and is now one of the most entertaining guys on RAW. Swagger moved over at the same time, put on a strong showing against Cena in a losing effort, but whether it be due to poor booking or just an inability to connect with the fans, he's faltered since then.

Kofi made the move and started a slow run. While his push has slowed recently, his success isn't exactly short term. Since he made the move to RAW he has held the Tag Titles, the IC Title, and the US Title, and now has solidified himself as a top mid-card talent that is not completely out of place in the ME scene. MVP, on the other hand, tried to jump straight into the ME scene, calling out Randy Orton on his first night on RAW, only to have the feud go nowhere and watch his push shrink week after week.

My point with all of this is simple. For every Chuck Palumbo, Mark Jindrak, or Danny Basham, you have a Kofi Kingston, Miz, or Sheamus. Being moved to RAW isn't necessarily a death knell, its more or less one shot to either sink-or-swim. And we've seen over the years that some guys swim, some guys sink like a rock, and the majority just tread water.
 
Being drafted to RAW=You better learn how to use a mic. Raw is filled with more promo time than wrestling time. Guys like Bourne or Benjamin can have the most awesome moveset, but it's not that often that they'll get the chance to show it off. Thus they must up their ability to spit game. If they can't, it's pretty much inevitable that you're gonna get released.
 
If you can't cut it on the A-Show and can only succeed in the small time Smackdown or ECW, you deserve to lose your job.

RAW is where guys go to truly test how good they are since RAW's audience is the largest of all the brands.

If the RAW crowd is not feeling you, then you either go back to the minor leagues on Smackdown and ECW and pretend you're relevant or you get fired.
 
EXCUSE ME? SMACKDOWN AND ECW MINOR LEAGUES? Smackdown and Ecw are not minor leagues. You're probably a Raw fan that hates Smackdown and Ecw because they're boring. ECW is focusing on the young guys and devloping them, which RAW doesnt always do. Just look at what Evan Bourne has become.

Back on the topic. It's not true that 50% of the drafts get released. How many of this years draft did you see get released? I dont think any. Its all about charisma and ability, but you have to have both. When your on RAW especially you're expected to show off both and if you cant then the writers get too lazy or are just too shit to do anything about it so they release, trade or just not use you.

People like Evan Bourne, Shelton, Swagger are great athletes but they dont have charisma. When you wrestle for the WWE you have to have the 'W' and the 'E'. You cant just expect to have one and get a big push unless your friends with the boss or triple h (sheamus). For everyone else you get released or they just dont use you.

Now look at others. Miz is a total success. He has great mic skills, can get heat easily and is good in the ring. And look he's holding 3 belts!! I could name a few more but I think I've written so much already people wont bother to read it.

I hope this cleared things up for you Mr. RAW is Superior
 
Like every curse, it has an explanation.

Look at the EA sports curse. You put a guy on the cover of an EA Sports Video game, and he sucks the following year. Really a curse? Of course not. It's that they were on that cover because they were VERY popular and impressive that year. So, a lot of the following years are going to pale in comparison. Not to mention that if it was a breakthrough year, they obviously will be scouted and covered more frequently.

With this curse, there's also an explanation. In a weird way, WWE is a three-step program. ECW, Smackdown!, then Raw. If you go to ECW, then make it, they like to take you to Smackdown!, occassionally Raw, but that's usually the third step. So, when someone has enough going for him, they send him there.

But, also.. Raw is somewhat of a last chance stop. They send you there and see if you come up with anything. If they can't and you don't, then they release you. if you're not gonna put enough into yourself at the biggest show in the game, why keep you around? To drain money? Of course not. So, they send the biggest stars, the guys who did well in either or both of ECW and Smackdown! and the last-chancers in hopes of them doing SOMETHING or letting them job a few times then letting them go.

I mean, you either perform well under pressure, or gradually stepping into the pressure. If people don't perform well gradually, then yo have to hope/assume that it will happen when you apply the pressure.

Smackdown!/ECW = gradual.

Raw = automatic pressure.

If you're lucky, you get built up gradually and then get sent to Raw. If you aren't getting over and producing anything, they have no choice but to give you automatic pressure as a last ditch effort. If that doesn't work, why keep you around?
 
You're onto something, Granite.... but not right about all of it. There are guys every year who get drafted and then future endeavored, but not all of it happens to guys who get drafted to Raw. There have been a few instances where it happens to guys getting drafted to Smackdown too. 2009's draft had Ortiz coming to Smackdown and wasn't there for very long before getting future endeavored. 2008's draft had Murdoch going to Smackdown but he got future endeavored very shortly. However, it DOES happen more often to guys getting drafted to Raw. I see it as someone going to Raw is when it's time to sink or swim. They either remain over (if they were over to begin with) or they fail and get future endeavored. Then there are those who don't even get to debut. Perhaps sometimes someone is sent to Raw before getting future endeavored so that they will be able to think to themselves "ok, I got fired.... but for a while there I was on the roster of Raw!". It's not much of a parting gift, but it's probably still better then fading into obscurity on ECW or Smackdown before a release. 50% is too high of an estimate in my opinion. A lot of guys who get sent to Raw either do alright, or get moved to Smackdown to find more success. There are quite a bit of cases where a move to Raw resulted in a release but not everyone who fails at Raw gets future endeavored.... I'd say maybe 25% to 30% instead of 50% because some fail and get released but most are still able to stick around somehow.
 
I would say so. Even if you main event ECW, you won't be recognized as a maint event player on Raw. Take Jack Swagger for example. Swagger was a top player on ECW, was the ECW champ. But then, he lost the title. Then he went to Raw and was a pretty decent midcarder for a little while. Then, he disappeared. Then he jobbed to Santino. Now, in my eyes, Swagger still stands a chance of staying around, as long as he gets moved from Raw. He could be a solid midcarder on Smackdown, but his Main Event chances have been hurt badly. So is being drafted to Raw a 50% chance of being released? Well, ask a guy like Brian Kendrick who was in the WWE Title picture on Smackdown, and became a jobber on Raw. Ask a guy like Carlito or Primo who were both in a tag team that held the tag titles for months on Smackdown, and became jobbers on Raw. Where's Primo? Who knows. Or you could ask a guy like Miz, who is a double champ. Only the strong survive, and an injury prone guy like Kennedy gets released. I think it's no less than 30% that you'll get released, and 50% your career is hurt.
 
Well i dont agree with you that 50% of the time is you get drafterd to Raw you will get release.If you get drafted to RAW shit is an honor because getting drafted to RAW you Risk it all,If you get drafted to Raw and your a rookie that means that your ready to dance with the top stars of the WWE.Raw is like any sport in the world,If you do your part well you keep stepping up the ladder and your the starter of the team, And if you dont you sit down and give some other rookie a chance.
 
Being drafted to RAW=You better learn how to use a mic. Raw is filled with more promo time than wrestling time. Guys like Bourne or Benjamin can have the most awesome moveset, but it's not that often that they'll get the chance to show it off. Thus they must up their ability to spit game. If they can't, it's pretty much inevitable that you're gonna get released.


True. To be on Raw you need to cut it on the mic. Miz's moveset isn't great but he is one of the top promo cutters on Raw (In the WWE if I say so myself) John Morrision is okay on the mic but has better ring ability, that is why he's on Smackdown (where there is more wrestling than promos). So you'll sink if you don't have good promo skills on Raw.
 
I personally look at the draft as WWE looking for a place for somebody they don't know what to do with. They see the characters failing where they are and think putting them in the new environment will help them (obvious exceptions in the Cena/Batista trade in '05, HHH going to Smackdown! and Mysterio going to Raw).
 
I was recently thinking about this and it made me think...aren't half of the stars sent to raw in the draft just released anyway???? Let's go year by year..

Ok there is a few flaws in your statements and heres why, it wasn't the brand that got the talent released it was the wrestlers themselves, and heres why

2004: The first draft...Chuck Palumbo and Albert were sent to Raw and had a couple of Heat matches and that was that.

Pulambo and Albert didn't really do anything in the WWE at the time, both members where repackaged, both Pulambo and Albert attempted to be pushed as dominant heels but both blew it big time.

2005: Don't get me started on 2005. There was Kenzo Suzuki, Hiroko, Danny Basham, AND Mark Jindrak. They were all released 1-2 days later.

Hiroko vioated the Wellness policy for starters and ended up being released without being given a chance, Suzuki aparently left on his own accord, they braught him into the WWE on great promise in hopes that they build a dominant main eventer, they ended up with a dud inwhich the WWE attempted to build but it didn't go the way they hoped so they let him go (do you blame them really?).

Basham and Jindrak again where repackaged and actually where placed on smackdown but again bombed big time, they where pushed but they didn't take so they where traded to raw and then let go of.


2007:Sandman was the only one released after being crushed by Kennedy.

Sandman left on his own accord, WWE actually didnt release him, Vince wanted to repackage him as a heel at the time and have him a permanent fixture in the midcard, shame the guy screwed it all up because he didn't want a secure job ah well....


2008:Chuck Palumbo (again), and Deuce (with a short run as Sim Snuka)

Crappy Biker Gimmick which did nothing for Palumbo and Sim Snuka who wrestled like a ******ed version of his fathers gimmick, neither did anything with their respective pushes and where released yet again...


And finally...

2009:MIIIIIIIISTEEEERRR KENNEDY...and THE Brian Kendrick

Kennedy thought smoking weed meant more then his career and even said it himself that he screwed with vince Mcmahon by taking up smoking cigarettes, he made sure he got fired and didn't care about his push on smackdown, the WWE wanted to push him to the moon but the kid screwed it up big time.

Kennedy was another one who got pushed to the moon more times then any midcarder in the WWE's history, Most of the midcard would of loved to have had that many pushes look at the vince's son storyline, the who killed vince storyline, the money in the bank storyline, the guy kept injuring himself and others was it the WWE's fault.....the answer to the retoricle question was no, the guy screwed himself over and got released lets hope TNA will allow his broken body to heal so the guy can be worth something.


So yeah if you see that all of those wrestlers were released shortly after the draft I think being sent to raw is a death sentence if you're a lower-card superstar.

What do you think?

Raw is basically the same pot of main eventers, Raw isn't the place where you go to prove yourself its where midcarders are sent to job and main eventers are sent to collect dust in the midcard, the fact is that if you want certain wrestlers to blossom it has to either be on smackdown where they can establish their main event credibility or at the time ECW but now that option will be forgotten due to Vince's mistreatment of a rather credible brand.

Even thought you drew up a valid point in regards to Raw being the career killer for some it was not the sole reason these wrestlers above where released it is the brand where you can see the same main eventers again and again, hopefully things will change but i just dont see it at this time.
 
I've watched WWE for about five years now and from what I've seen, Raw has always been the worst brand to work in especially if you're a midcarder. Jack Swagger was riding a wave of momentum coming off a successful and dominant ECW Championship reign when he got drafted to Raw... and then he started jobbing to Santino prior to the Royal Rumble. Mark Henry was drafted to Raw and picked up a win against then WWE Champion Randy Orton. After that, he was put in another one of WWE's randomly thrown together tag teams.

Of course there have been notable exceptions, such as Jeff Hardy and more recently the Miz. And this is not to say that midcarders are guarenteed success on Smackdown or ECW... but their chances to shine more are higher than they would be on Raw. Raw, especially now, is so full of established names and maineventers that it's much easier to get lost in the shuffle. That said, midcarders WILL have a harder time moving up the ranks on Raw and more of a chance of getting future endevoured.
 

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