"Backstage Politics"

[IrishCanadian25]

If I made a list of terms I am sick of hearing, the term "backstage politics" sits right at the top. This term is overused, watered down, and misunderstood. Wrestlers who either died out or lost jobs for whatever reason run down the guys who had success as "backstage politicians."

Fans run down top guys as the same, without ever having been backstage to see what goes on or what the reasons truly are for success and failure.

The term has been used against Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and several others.

Let me explain something. If professional wrestling is indeed a "business," then none of you should be surprised. As a card carrying member of corporate America, "politicking" to a boss or a board of directors date back WELL before professional wrestling's heydays.

Managers in companies often bust their asses in college, in MBA programs, and in entry level rank and file work for years to get a chance to prove themselves as a manager, and when they get there, they sure as hell don't want to leave. It's nothing new. Employees are often promoted because of relationships with their bosses, often because they have a compatible chemistry with upper management. But if they are incompetent, they won't get that shot regardless of who they know (unless their last name is Bush). Not one of the professional wrestlers who get run down for politics were incompetent. Not Hogan, not Flair, not HHH - NOBODY. They all earned their spots and wanted to keep them. You'd all do the same thing!

Do you know how they are able to earn the ability to have the earn of their boss? They earn that right. They perform and they dedicate themselves to the success of the business. How often did Flair, Hogan, or HHH ask for frivolous "time off?" They have the boss's ear because they are ALWAYS THERE, ALWAYS AT WORK.

Any Yankee fans out there? Did you know Brian Cashman was an Intern with the Yankees under George Steinbrenner on his way to becoming the youngest GM in pro sports at a time? You know how he earned that promotion. HE ALWAYS WORKED! He didn't tell the boss that he had to leave right at 5:00 pm because he was tired and his day was over! He stayed until 10:00 at night, even later, if there was work to be done. Scott Steiner, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn - those guys were not the "arrive first, leave last" types of guys. They were the ones who whined when they didn't get their way.

What are your thoughts on Backstage Politics and the people who are accused of the practice? Do you agree with me, or am I way off base?

 

[Trumike]

In my opinion there are somethings that are not correct with your statement. First, everybody knows Hogan used politics to get his way. He even has creative clauses put in his contract. It has been documented by many people that he would change storylines at the last minute because he wanted to. He would stay champioin longer because he wanted to. DDP is another wrestler who got over. Why? His friend and neighbor was his boss.He went from losing to Marc Mero to being a World Champion.
Triple H went from losing pig pen matches to Henry Godwinn and losing in aobut 12 seconds to the Ultimate Warrior. Now he is the biggest thing in wrestling. People say its not becasue of his wife. But when he started dating his wife he was able to change the storyline of the angle that was being done with Test or Andrew Martin.
Kevin Nash and Scott Hall. Two guys who never drew anything as any kind of champion. They would no-show some events and as Hogans friends always got what they wanted. They will not be considered some of the greatest. I speak of Hall and Nash.Before they left the WWE they were doing nothing. Now its true somebody like Shawn Michaels and Triple H now may work their butts off. I admit and give them that. They have to if they want to stay on top. I agree with that. But as for the politicing. It is done more than people realize.

 

[Alex(Killer Of Dreams & Legends)]

Now i'm not gonna bash back stage "politics" cause wether we like it or not it is gonna happen. As Irish canadian 25 said it happens at every buisness. What I do not like is these former wwe wrestlers bashing the politics. Are they upset about what that HHH and Stephane fell in love cause of wrestling now he gets the title and well booked matches. As we see the only time HHH is not with the wwe is when he is hurt he does not ask for time off . I understand people like Batista and Randy Orton from recent activity wanting some time off. But Kurt gets upset bout not getting time off . Kurt gets plenty of time off every time that SOB hurts his neck .... So where does he have the right to complain.


Back to the politics though , Why is it a bad thing ? well you could pull strings to get better booked. Why is it a good thing ? well people dont realize it allows structure in a company cause lets not forget a company needs structure. Who's to say if we owend wwe that we would not book a match to beat the hell out of cena or HHH .. right ! I even bet tna has a lot of politics ecspecially when Kurt got there .... He has alot of say in Tna managment and so does Jarret who's to say them two have not used there powers abusivl , but we dont see the TNA people jumpig ship and complaining about the "polotics"

 

[Trumike]

People in TNA don't jump ship because a lot of them came from the WWE. So, it seems like a no win situation to them. Politics is good and bad. But how good is a company in wrestling going to be when your champion is telling people who shoud and should not be champion. His opinion is never that valuable. It is important to listen but not to do what they say. It has been heard and documented that Triple H did not want Angle to have the belt at first and he did not RVD with the belt either. It took them through hell to get the belt and look at how RVD was booked as champion. That is not good. A champion is only as good as his competition. He has the talent on Raw to make some stars. When he puts them over he will be the tru king of kings. Until then he will be known as the guy that married the bosses daughter

 

[HBK-aholic]

Brilliant thread Irish. I detest these words so much. The main reason to hate HHH? Backstage politics. The Kliq? Backstage politics. I could go on. Fans decide to hate wrestlers that do well and out it down to them "politcking", and it gets on my nerves, especially when it comes to Hunter. He is a brilliant worker in my opinion; definately one of my favourites. Yet because he's married to the boss' daughter it means he doesn't deserve any of the title reigns he gets, or matches he wins.

It reminds me sadly of what has happened with Chris Benoit. Benoit was an amazing underrated technical wrestler, and I've been a fan of him for as long as I can remember. However due to the circumstances of his death, he'll never be remembered as such. What he did was wrong, but we should still remember all the good things he did.

Went off topic a little bit there, but yeah, 'politicking' is a part of any business, I'm 16 and I've already experienced it. And it's certainly been happening in wrestling long before guys such as HHH or the Kliq came around. And as you rightly say, these guys are the ones that put 110% in 24/7. They deserve to be praised for their hard work.

And just to finish this off, I am so sick of people hating on these wrestlers simply because of these backstage reasons. Where are the days where we watched wrestling and liked guys due to how entertaining they were to us? Personal preference seems to be no more. I LOVE HHH, why? Because he entertains the hell outta me. The reason Shawn Michaels is my favourite of all time? Because he can do anything, and I feel something special when I watch him wrestle. I dislike Cena and Hogan, because they bore me. They're great for the business, no denying it. But I feel nothing when watching them.

If someone hates HHH, HBK or anyone else for a reason such as "They bore me", then fine because you're the wrestling fan, and everyone likes something different. But why worry constantly about what's happening backstage when that's not what we're watching? Seriously, just try it. Don't think about that and enjoy the show, because that's what wrestling is all about.

 

[Father:_Polley]

There's part of your thread I agree with, and part I don't.

First of all, I agree that a lot of wrestlers don't deserve to get pushes, the likes of New Age Outlaws being an example...simply because they feel because of what they've done in the past, they actually deserve to carry titles and threaten to leave when they don't get their way. They act like spoilt little children and don't bother to pull their weight as respected veterans of the industry.

However, I don't think that certain people retain their position at the top of company simply by working hard. The likes of Hogan influencing creative to change the way he's booked being the prime example.
That being said, I don't think HHH deserves a lot of the abuse he gets from fans on the internet. Given HHH had title reigns before he was with Stephanie McMahon, it's unfair to accuse all his reigns of coming from this aspect of his relationship. The rest of his reigns came from the fact that he worked for it.

Politics doesn't automatically make the wrestler a champion, but there has to be an aspect of working hard to deserve the runs.

 

[Shocky]

Meh, I think the underlying theme of this thread is, Please Don't Bash Triple H anymore.

People don't like politicians because most people don't like ass-kissers is pretty much what it comes down to. There are plenty of competent people that work in the company, or any company, but as you said, they don't have the ability to bullshit with their boss, or quite frankly, they have faith in the system that if they work hard, they will be rewarded for that work.

Politicians are guys that have a lack of ability, so they try to cover it up with smooth talking. Look at some of the most famous politicians of recent times. Flair, infamous backstage politician, the NWA for the most part, destroyed. The Kliq in their heyday in the mid 90's, what did that accomplish? I'll tell you what that accomplished, it accomplished a bunch of the older guys abandonding the company because a bunch of young guys forced them out. Those older guys didn't have an opportunity to help establish any newer guys, and what happened, the WWF was on it's death bed in 1996 with a Kliqster front and center. Hogan, while he is the biggest thing in wrestling ever, helped to lead to the downfall of WCW with his antics. WCW's midcard talent left in mass in late 1999 to 2000 effectively killing the talent.

Which brings us to the modern day King of Politicians, the Game. Since the games seat on top in late 2002, we've been "blessed" with an incredibly average to subpar product, countless disgruntled former employees, and a company with little to no mid card talent. I can go into detail if you like, but I'm guessing I'm just going to get a bunch of excuses and Triple H apologist in here regardless.

When it comes to Triple H in particular, the big argument against him being a politician was "Well know one has said anything publically about it." Guess what happened. A bunch of guys left the WWE, started to go public with a lot of things that were considered rumor, and instead of "Hey, maybe if there's smoke there's fire", people do whatever they can to try and discredit the person talking out against their hero. Look around on these forums alone, and I'm sure you'll find a thread somewhere dedicated to discrediting the opinions of the Outlaws, Steiner, Kurt Angle, RVD, Booker T, or any other guy that has left the company.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

My point of view: I don't condone backstage politics, I dislike people if I think they're involved in it, but at the same time, I do think people throw the term around way too haphazardly.

The debate goes on and on that "internet wrestling fans aren't the majority, so don't listen to them" versus "internet wrestling fans are the most devoted fans, so listen to them". For the most part, I support the latter, but at the same time, I think too many people feel that reading rumor posts on WrestleZone means you're suddenly "in the know" and you can draw your own conclusions. Look, we all do, we all say things like "wtf is Creative thinking?" and such, but we don't know for sure what's going on.

That being said, I don't think "backstage politics" is anything to be proud of. If you worked your way to the top, you deserve to stay at the top without it being unjustly ripped from underneath you, I completely agree about that. At the same time, if you're not performing at the same levels, you deserve to step down a little. The biggest crosshair target for "backstage politics" seems to be HHH, so let's examine him. We do have clear cut signs that he's pushed as God's gift to wrestling. Sometimes subtle, sometimes completely not. He does in fact hog up a lot of the spotlight, he does put down people in his mic segments and interviews, he does seem to lose in ways that seem like "flukes" or in ways that he comes out looking strong (or stronger than the winner), and he does seem to win in ways that are dominant and overshadow his opponent in every way. For instance, an example you can state from last night's Raw. After building Orton up as a legitimate champion, and all the "you never beat me without an excuse" talk a week or so ago, HHH comes out tonight and says "its as if the Age of Orton never happened". Is that necessary? Couldn't he have just said "I'm still the champ, so bring on the next challenge as I'm ready for it"? While I do think HHH is a main event star who has consistently shown that he's a very talented wrestler, ratings have apparently been going down since he's been the champ, I've been bored out of my mind with his title matches, and it seems like everyone just wants something new. That isn't good business. Since it isn't good business, he shouldn't be in the spot he's in, correct? But how likely is that going to happen? If he does in fact lose the title before Summerslam (or even during, depending on who it is), there's a good chance he'll lose it by interference or a quick roll-up or something. Either that, or he loses it and beats the person the next night on Raw to add another championship reign under his name and "even out the score".

Now, we don't know if Triple H himself is booking him to look as dominant as he looks, destroying half of every roster every few months and so forth, or if its just that Creative and others backstage are afraid of NOT pushing him...but its still a bit annoying. He doesn't need to be demoted to jobber status or anything, I'm not saying that, but when nearly every WWE video highlight package ends with Triple H standing tall and such, it starts to seem a bit planned out.

We aren't backstage, so we can't fully judge things. For all we know, Big Dick Johnson is Puppetmaster #1. At the same time, just because we don't know for sure, doesn't mean that rumors we hear and criticism we give is automatically false. Too many people, it seems, take everything at face value. "Omg, so and so lost a match at a house show. He must be in the dog house, which means everyone hates him, which means his push is done, which means he'll be fired next week!" Then, others just refuse to believe anything. There could be 1000 sources saying "Flair is retiring at WrestleMania", all logic pointing to it, and they'll say "nope, its on a website, so its a fake rumor".

All in all, everyone needs to keep their opinions within reason and logic. If you look at CM Punk's record lately, yeah, it does seem like they're not too big on him as he hasn't been winning a lot. We have a few rumors going around that say the same thing. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. Use it in your predictions and so forth, but don't start doing the boycott method and everything until you figure it all out. Backstage politics does exist, but we don't know to what degree. Don't repress your likes or dislikes for wrestlers or anything, don't throw rumors out the window like garbage, but don't swear a blood oath on them either. Don't be fickle enough to believe that the WWE is doing everything on a whim, but don't be stubborn enough to believe without proof that there's a secret cult backstage with "no Homers allowed" or something on the entrance door.

Backstage politics = Term is thrown around too much and too recklessly, but that doesn't mean it is completely void.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I don't give a shit about backstage politics. I don't see anything wrong with it. If sucking up to your boss makes you more money, then so be it. If you have to put people down to keep you spot, then go for it. Most of the people you work with aren't your friends. You might see them more than your family, but that doesn't mean you have a bond with any of them.

I was never a kiss ass when I was working for other people. But that probably means I never would have progressed in any of the companies. I should have done though. Because in life you need money, the more you make, the easier life can be.

I also have no problem with Triple H the man. It's the wrestler I detest. He's just so boring. My dislike for him comes from the 30 minute promos & average matches. Nothing more.

I actually really like Triple H the man. He comes across as a nice, intelligent bloke. In interviews anyway. Apparently he's the most approachable of all the McMahons, to the little people in the office. He obviously loves wrestling, and will do anything to get to the top. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[image1986]

Irsh good job because first off life itself is politics and to think wrestling is no different is silly. Yes triple h has power but in the end vince has the last say. Everyone can't be world champion and its true there should be some level of fairness but think about this if they want it bad enough many wrestlers should be proactive and get it. Stop using other wrestlers as a excuse on why your career is down the tubes and second just because rvd was not gettuing many title shots doesn't mean he wasn't over wwe always had a title on him and think about it if triple h had that much power why he keeps jobbing to cena wny does he lose so many wrestlemanias. Even when shawn was politcing other bret and taker he was the best on the roster at the time so people let it go

 

[Trumike]

This is to Image1986. I have to disagree on a few things you wrote. Let me start that Life and Politics go hand in hand. Thats true.You want to know why Triple H always loses to Cena. Well, I know that late last year and early this year John Cena's merchandise were the top selling items to sell. He is making for Vince. Selling more than Triple H. A top guy. Some wrestlers actually have a right to blame others. The New Age Outlaws were the top team durning the DX era. Why would they be mad? Backstage politics. It has been written on this site on Wrestlezone that Kurt angle and RVD were being held down by Triple H. He was quoted as tell Vince that they were either too small to be a top draw or not too popular with the fans. Yet on another thread people consider Angle one of the greatest ever. Politics.Now Stiener can complain all he wants. He needs to retire. He puts everyone down. He was not happy in WCW. So, some people have a right to complain about politics. Even wrestlers have said that on Smackdown the wrestlers are happier because of the way they police themselves backstage.

 

[marxxx]

Here is a viewpoint for everyone to consider...

Politics can ruin the atmosphere of any workplace! If you work in an industry that there are tons of jobs (or you work part time / don't have kids or a family / whatever), then politics may not be important to you. If the atmosphere gets bad you can quite and walk out until you find another job.

If you work in a field where there aren't many jobs available (the job market sucks / you live in an area of high unemployment / you have a family and kids to support / you have a high mortgage payment) then work atmosphere is very important to you, you can't just up and leave. If you are in this position the politics can be overwhelming!

What does this mean to wrestling fans? Think about it! Many of these guys don't have multiple alternatives for work, and if they don't believe they are going to get a fair shake and a fair opportunity to succeed they won't give it 100% effort. Is this the reason that every wrestler has quit/been fired failed to succeed? NO, but it probably contributed to quite a few of them.

This is true in every day life whether you are a student, a worker B, or a manger. You won't put forth maximum effort if you don't believe there is a good opportunity for success. Period!

 

[AustinE]

Backstage politics have ruined the business or a lot of fans. It started in the 80's with Hulk Hogan. Then, it came back with Hulk Hogan in the mid 90's in WCW with the NWO. Hall and Nash, Hogan, HBK, and HHH are all people who munipulated there ways to the top. The worst is definitely HHH.

The victims are Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, Malenko, and others. In early 2000, Jericho was a fan favorite, and it was clear that he was going to be the champion, but long behold, HHH was. IT is clear that HHH is jealous of Jericho because he had the skills to instantly rise to the top while Triple H wasn't good enough so he maried the boss's daughter. He did eventually win the belt in 2001, but had a 3 month reign, then dropped it to HHH.

Chris Benoit was a victim in WCW, when he was easily better than the champions at that time like Hogan, Nash, Giant, Luger, Hall, and even Goldberg. He did win it, but thank god he left for WWE, where he had the same story as Jericho.

Bret Hart's story is different. He was on top for a long period of time before he got ran over by politics. He was clearly the best in the business, and the WWE screwed him over because he was going to WCW. HBK lied to him, so did HHH. Hart may have not made the best decision, but he didn't need to get screwed over like he did.

Dean Malenko's career was based on backstage politics. In WCW, he was the best technical wrestler there, but he was held back due to his size, and that people thought he wasn't worth a crap due to his size. His story is about the same as Benoit and Jericho, but he never made it to the top.

Others like Owen Hart, Shelton Benjamin, Rob Van Dam, etc.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

Politics destroy companies. We've seen it throughout many eras of wrestling. In the 1980's it was clear that Hogan had a lot of creative control. Things like defeating Yokozuna in seconds or Undertaker's 1 week title reign come to mind. But at least Hogan = ratings in this period. He transcended the business so it made sense to give him his way. However, in WCW he and the other veterans set up a glass ceiling for the younger talent. WCW's biggest blow came when Jericho and the Radicalz jumped ship to WWE. The company crumbled not too long after.

Triple H seems to be the primary target for "polticking" and not without good reason. Prior to his marriage to Stephanie in 2003, Triple H was already an established Main Eventer. He was the best heel at the time and I had no trouble accepting him as a main eventer. He was in superb shape, great on the mic, and was one of the best workers at the time. However, once he started dating Stephanie it was quite obvious that he was abusing his backstage pull. The fact that he was simply granted the World Heavyweight Title shows just how egotistical Triple H is. He held the title for 280 days, the majority of 2003 (coincidently the year he got married to Stephanie) and squashed just about every potential main eventer. Did anyone notice how fat Triple H got in 2003? He no longer boasted that incredible physique from 2001. It was as if he was saying "I don't even need to try anymore".

Triple H always needs to look like the dominant one. Either he's single handedly destroying entire rosters or losing via "fluke", he always comes out looking better than his opponent. How weak did Randy Orton look back in No Mercy? All of that just because Triple H wanted to one-up his World Title list.



I don't completely agree with your point that the "arrive early, leave late" guys deserve to politic. Yes, whiney babies like Road Dogg and Billy Gunn don't deserve to be on top. But what about the guys who are just as dedicated to Wrestling but never get a chance to shine because of the glass ceiling that politickers set up?

Bret Hart is a perfect example of the ideal worker. He did not politic during his long illustrious career in the 90's yet he was on top for a long time. He worked one of the most demanding schedules in his time and always put on a steller match. He never injured any of his opponents and was always willing to put someone over, even Shawn Michaels. It's a shame that his career got destroyed by the Kliq's politicking.

What about guys like Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Dean Melinko and all of those that Triple H squashed or held down? RVD, Booker T, Kurt Angle are all very talented superstars yet they were held down by politics (though Kurt Angle is a little ungrateful since he did accomplish a lot in WWE).

 

[JJYanks121]

For all the negative said about backstage politics, and I'm not going to tell you that it has always benefited the company, those complaining about it on this site are those who are marks of wrestling as an art and as a sport. Those who enjoy a quality wrestling match. However, most of the WWE audience is and will always be more interested the product and the entertainment than a good, technical match. This is why guys who can cut promos are generally at the top and guys who can entertain like Jeff Hardy get big spots so people can see him be nuts. The other issue to think about is believability. Not everyone is cut out to be champion. It is either not in their character and yes, size does matter. It has been said that Triple H's title reins since 2002 were bad, but we've had Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit and Rey Mysterio which not one is over 6 feet tall stand as champion. And of the 3, only Eddie could cut a decent promo. Just because they are good technically doesn't mean they are a good draw, and they were not. Now take John Cena and the Rock. Both guys are average wrestlers but do things in the ring that entertain. They both can get on a mic and get fans into it and they both make a ton for the company. Forget how many holds and suplexes they can do. Did anyone care if Austin could do a ton of moves? No, they just wanted to see someone get stunned. Did it matter with Hogan for many many many years. All the fans wanted was for him to "Hulk up" and eventually leg drop another foe. It is called World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT for a reason and yes, politicking happens like in any business, but ultimately, the decision comes down to what will make the best product. When that goes on the wayside, you get Rey Mysterio as champion who no one takes seriously.

The last point I want to address is Paul Levesque (Triple H). If you learned about Triple H when you became a fan of his in 1997 like I did with DX the original. You would know that he struggled to find a character in WCW and went to WWF. They saw a talented guy who was willing to work hard, but he became a "cliquer" because he was told upon coming in that he could learn a lot from those guys because they were at the top of the business. You might argue bad habits, but he joined DX with Shawn and learned to cut a hell of a promo even if every one was about his penis. But he turns heel after he leads DX and becoming the leader made him a much bigger star and IC material really. He also had great matches with Austin and the Rock who became the business. Then, HE WAS PUT IN AN ANGLE WHERE HE STOLE STEPH FROM TEST. Understand that they did this to portray his degenerate side and Steph was mad but then came around to try this McMahon Helmsley faction thing. At the time, Steph and Paul were NOT dating as he was still on the outs with former gf Chyna. It was only AFTER the angle ended that they began to date in real life. They started to see each other because of working together on the show. This has happened to many wrestlers in the business and if you factor that in, he was winning titles because of this angle because he was a HEEL and used his power to get them. It made for great Attitude era TV. As for staying on top, no one works harder. Hate him all you want. He's good for the business and has been for a long time.

 

[Agrex]

I find the term "backstage politics" an excuse to dislike a wrestler. Why is Triple H getting pushed so hard? Because he worked hard for it, it's not like he walked into the WWE, and was handed a title reign. He worked four years before he became world champ. Sure dating the boss’s daughter helped, but in my opinion that's a smart move. It's not like he only married Stephanie for title reigns. He worked hard, and dating Stephanie only helped the situation. A great reason to back up my opinion on "backstage politics is an excuse to dislike a wrestler" is Kurt Angle. Kurt Angle politics his way around TNA, but no one gives him shit for it. Yet they do for HHH. Unfair? Yes!

This is all due to a group of wrestling fans called the IWC. Yes, that's us. But not all of us are guilty, just some. Once every little while it's cool to like a certain wrestler, and uncool to like a different one. And when it's uncool to like a certain the IWC makes up stupid excuses to hate the wrestler. One of those excuses is "backstage politics".

"Backstage politics" is something we've all faced. It's basically someone sucking up to their boss to get a better position, or to receive more money. You don't even have to work to face it. You also see it in school. A student sucks up to the teacher to get higher marks. It's everywhere, and a lot of people use it. It's ignorant to use the fact that a certain wrestler uses backstage politicks to hate them. That's their choice.

So in my opinion, "backstage politics" is an excuse. And we, the IWC should not toss that term around so frequently.