Austin Region, New Orleans Subregion, First Round (8)Chris Benoit vs.(25)Dean Ambrose

Discussion in 'Austin Region' started by HBK-aholic, Mar 24, 2016.

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Who Wins This Match?

  1. Chris Benoit

  2. Dean Ambrose

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
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  1. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Motherfucker. Showed up a little late. But alas, you are my spirit animal. Must be the birthday shit.

    I could go on and on, and waste my breath here, but I won't. What's done is done, and there's 45 people who should be highly ashamed of themselves. Ambrose got the win here, so I fully expect him to now have a deep run, considering he's now thought of as a better-all around performer than CHRIS FUCKING BENOIT.

    Ugh. You people make me sick. :disappointed:
     
    #126
  2. Khalifa

    Khalifa Where it at doe?

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    Well the idea of the tournament would suggest we are picking the best. If we wanted popularity then everyone would be in the same poll. X, I and others have stated that if you think Ambrose is better from a wrestling standpoint then that is fine. We don't care if you vote that way. If you are using outside the ring circumstances to suggest that Ambrose is better then we don't agree.

    The obvious confliction for basically the whole thread is that one side is it to killing the business while the other side is saying we are talking about what he has done/can do/will do in the ring. I think everyone just needs to agree to disagree.
     
    #127
  3. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    Hey, that's the same way some of us feel when we get told to ignore our humanity for the sake of a message board professional wrestling tournament!
     
    #128
  4. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    Which says nothing about what criteria someone is expected to use in casting their votes. If there's someone out there who's casting votes based on who makes the better Eggs Benedict, are they breaking any rules? Or just annoying people who believe people 'should' vote a certain way?
     
    #129
  5. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    You can't be this stupid, can you?

    It's a tournament involving professional wrestlers, so why would you vote for anything not involving their abilities to be a successful and entertaining professional wrestler?

    Ambrose was entertaining, to a few, in CZW. And, you can't argue it's more than a few, because CZW just doesn't have a large fanbase, and most people that watch, watch for the car crash, not for the race. Benoit entertained to millions.

    As X pointed out...Benoit was good enough to win the title over HHH and HBK at Madison Square Garden at the biggest wrestling show ever to that date.

    Ambrose's biggest accomplishment so far is...wait...it's...no...that's not it...hm...maybe...nope. Can't think of one.
     
    #130
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  6. Prince Vee

    Prince Vee Better than I think I am

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    Ambrose does have that charisma which of different than any others. His character portrays how his life was when he was on the streets. When someone is ready is exhibit the truth of it, they certainly are going to be over. That's why he has this huge fanbase than any other, because his character isn't hypocritical. Even if he turns heel, it isn't going to change. But here we are voting on the basis of whole package, in-ring skills, mic skills, charisma and overall achievements.

    In that context, Chris Benoit overtakes him by some margin. You see, like NSL mentioned, he had that tenacity to create a Wresltemania moment for himself at the MSG. He takes over Dean Ambrose in the in-ring skills quite comfortably, albeit Ambrose's matches do have such intensity which keeps us entertained to watch. Perhaps Dean might edge out Benoit on Mic Skills and Charisma. Considering all the facts, and leaving the real-life incidents behind, Chris Benoit would win. There's no question in that. But if we talk about Dean Ambrose vs Chris Benoit as in of real-life, many of us who had voted for Benoit is debatable.
     
    #131
  7. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    I ask again, NSL; if someone feels that the person who makes the best Eggs Benedict would be the better professional wrestler, what rule prevents them from casting their vote along those lines?

    If this is a 'should' or 'well I think' argument, save it for next year and take it on the arches.
     
    #132
  8. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Common Sense. That rule. Or, well it should, but for a moment, I forgot I was on a wrestling forum.

    You shouldn't need to be told "Vote based on wrestling criteria". You should pretty much get the gist when you're logging on to wrestlezone.com, to post on a wrestling forum, about a wrestling tournament, involving wrestlers.
     
    #133
  9. Spidercanrana

    Spidercanrana Should've Reinstated The Fox
    Staff Member Moderator E-Fed Mod

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    I miss Kermit's method of voting from last year. Eddie Guerrero beat The British Bulldog in a game of Flappy Bird due to Mexican food leaving him on the toilet and therefore having more time on his hands than Bulldog.

    Since Chris Benoit can't play games in Hell I'd assume the round goes to Ambrose.

    Too harsh?

    Maybe we shouldn't get so serious when we're talking fantasy then.
     
    #134
  10. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    Common sense has you down 45-42, unless we decide to start quibbling over the meaning 'common'. Bold whichever words you feel are necessary.

    Any empirical arguments here, or are we staying in Should-land?
     
    #135
  11. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    I'm not highly ashamed of myself, why would I be. Can't speak for the other 44 but I'm sure they aren't either.

    Being taken to task has put me right off voting in the rest of the rounds. I haven't said one fucking word to anyone that voted for Benoit, because that is your choice to make, but holy shit enough has been said to those of us that voted for Ambrose.

    Kudo's to the guys that put this whole thing together, I know it's supposed to be a good time and all, but just not worth it. Hopefully next years will be better. I'm done.
     
    #136
  12. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Common sense is voting on a wrestling match based on wrestling. I'd guess that 40 or so of the 45 people who voted for Ambrose weren't voting for Ambrose as much as they were voting against Benoit. And that's stupid. For those that believe there's a heaven and hell or whatever else, I'm sure you're not going to get to the pearly gates and be shunned because of a vote on a fake fucking wrestling match because one guy is clearly superior in every sense of the word.

    I'm done with this thread. The match is over. I'll save it for the next round.

    That's your prerogative to feel, or not feel, shame. I know, myself, I'd feel pretty silly for essentially wasting a vote to troll a better wrestler, because of something that had nothing to do with his wrestling career.

    I believe I've only replied directly to you twice, and both of them were based on wrestling arguments. One being Moxley as Ambrose's high point. I don't recall the other. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure you kept it based on wrestling, so there would be no need to "take you to task".

    Thanks. Wait...
     
    #137
  13. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    So this is about your opinion of how people are supposed to vote, then, that's all? We're just calling it common sense so it's not as personal?

    That's the thing about the 'common sense' defense, people only seem to haul it out to support an otherwise unsupportable argument. 'Common sense' has such a curious habit of always agreeing with the person who brings it up.
     
    #138
  14. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Did I say "common sense" was to vote for Benoit? Please find where I said that. I said that "common sense" was to vote on a wrestling match based on wrestling ability.

    Yes, Chris Benoit committed murder. But, does that change that he had one of the best finishers in the history of the business? Or that he could wrestle a solid match with anyone put in front of him? Or that he beat two of the guys who will probably be in the final 8 of this tournament, on the biggest stage there is?
     
    #139
  15. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    I didn't accuse you of saying that, did I? I accused you of attempting to dictate the criteria that people were supposed to use to vote, throwing a tantrum when you didn't get your way, and being unable to defend your arguments beyond some nebulous idea of 'common sense'.
     
    #140
  16. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I wasn't making up the criteria. I was stating that the criteria should be common sense enough that it doesn't need to be spelled out in all 127 matches that we're voting on a wrestling tournament. If you want to hold a tournament based on personal character, then feel free to, and we can discuss Benoit's character, as well as everyone else's that's included. I'll even help you put it together.

    But this isn't the place for that. If you think that Ambrose goes move for move in a match with Benoit, and comes out victorious, then use that as your argument. You'd be wrong, but it would make more sense than "Well Ambrose hasn't killed anyone, so he wins".
     
    #141
  17. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    Tell me why this isn't the place for that, WITHOUT using an example that relies on your own personal interpretation of the rules.
     
    #142
  18. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I've repeated myself a number of times. This is a wrestling tournament. We're arguing whether Wrestler A would beat Wrestler B in a wrestling match. What does what they do outside of the ring have to do with that? Does Cena win the entire tournament then, because of the amount of charity work he's done? Or does he win based on his in-ring ability?

    Benoit is one in a long line of assholes that have existed in the wrestling world, and as X pointed out, he's not the first, and won't be the last, implicated in a murder. I think he's a waste of life for what he did. But, this is a wrestling match.

    If you really need to take into account what he did, then shouldn't the argument be, that Benoit would beat Ambrose because he would roid rage and strangle him with a cord from a weight bench?
     
    #143
  19. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    You've repeated several times what YOU feel the criteria for selection should be. Do you have any arguments, at all, as to why anyone should give a wet fart as to your opinion?

    If there is a rule for this tournament telling people the criteria they should use, by all means link it and I'll concede the point. If this is just you trying to dictate rules because you can't handle the way a vote swung, we can pick this up at the same point next year.
     
    #144
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  20. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Are you really that obtuse, that you're completely missing the point of what I am saying? The criteria for selection, as far as who gets included in the tournament, is based on a list of 128 wrestlers that is submitted directly to KB. Those lists are built entirely on who we (yes, I was included) think are the best wrestlers. Benoit fared quite well, earning himself an 8 seed, meaning he was in the top 32 overall. So, if the wrestlers are being selected, based on their in-ring work and wrestling career, then why would they be voted on for any other reason?

    This is not me trying to "dictate the rules"; this is me saying you're not understanding the spirit of the tournament. The tournament is to determine who is the best wrestler. That's why I suggested you start a tournament based on who had the best personal character.

    If this were a debate on any other sport...say baseball...would you vote for the best team, based on the character of their players? Or vote for the team that would win the game?
     
    #145
  21. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    I'm not missing your point. I'm disagreeing with its validity.

    Is there ANYTHING which does not require someone to use your personal opinion about 'spirit' or 'common sense' that you can use to support your belief as to the criteria for this tournament?

    For what it's worth, the 1919 Chicago White Sox had one hell of a lineup, but I'd still vote against them. Unless it was stated that on-field performance was the only criteria to be used, a case which does not apply here.
     
    #146
  22. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I'm not going to keep typing the same thing, so I'll just start quoting myself.

    And then, because the wrestlers were selected based on their careers, it's not farfetched, at all, to say that Benoit would win a wrestling match against Ambrose. We're not arguing ballet, or cooking ability, or fashion sense...We're debating a wrestling tournament.

    Why would you use any other criteria, when it comes to voting?
     
    #147
  23. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    You can quote yourself, but it doesn't make your arguments any more valid. I'd quote myself too, asking for you to provide anything besides a personal opinion on how things should be run, but I'm on my phone and the mobile version of the editor is kind of meh.

    In answer to why someone would use any other criteria, well, that's up to their opinion, and if it isn't breaking the rules of this tournament, it's nothing more than sour grapes to you. As far as my PERSONAL choice, it's because I rate myself as a human being before I rate myself as a professional wrestling fan. I will take a similarly hard line towards anyone else in this tournament who has murdered their families.

    If there is a rule I have broken in my reasoning, quote it and we can call this 44-43.
     
    #148
  24. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I tried not to quote anyone more than once, but that's one quote from every person that supported Benoit in this thread, based on his in-ring ability. And I went ahead and bolded a portion of NorCal's post, where he said basically the same thing I did, about voting criteria. So, no...it's not a personal opinion on what the voting criteria is. If you take the time to read all of these, some of them even say that Benoit the person is a shithead, but they still admit he would win the match.
     
    #149
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  25. Rayne

    Rayne Sally Section

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    You're just quoting people who think Benoit should have won. That's not even an argument, that's the 'appeal to popularity' logical fallacy. Which isn't even very effective in this instance; the only thing stopping me from throwing it right back is my own sense of propriety.

    You share your opinion with people. I share mine with people. Since you aren't linking anything that states people are required to use certain criteria in their selection, we are once again back to you trying to dictate your opinion as if it were rule.

    Once more- I'm not asking what Timmy thinks about the situation, I'm not asking for your personal thoughts on the topic, we have that already. Is there any rule for this tournament which requires people to use specific criteria in casting their vote?
     
    #150
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