Austin Region, New Orleans Subregion, First Round (8)Chris Benoit vs.(25)Dean Ambrose

[Prince Vee]

Not considering his actions outside the ring, Chris Benoit is simply the best wrestler. His in-ring ability, techniques, smoothness in the ring are of different level than the superstars of the PG Era. But I'm in a dilemma to choose between Benoit and Ambrose because, Ambrose is extremely talented both ring wise as well in the mic. He has an unique charisma which had attracted a huge fanbase, that the WWE universe hasn't seen in the recent past (Aside from Daniel Bryan's fan base)

Still I would go with Chris Benoit because, he is a former world champion and had achieved more in the ring than Dean Ambrose. He has one of the best Wrestlemania moments, that alone could be a reason why I go with him.

 

[Khalifa]

Why the hell are people bringing up Benoits crazy acts that had nothing to do with wrestling in a wrestling match? Oh you guys have principal? It's like one of those people that say littering is terrible and nobody should do it only do walk past litter on their way home after throwing their cigarette butt on the ground. Think about the bigger picture.

How does Dean beat Benoit in a fight? He has weaker looking punches than Jeff Hardys! He does a stupid fake falling out the ring thing about 3 times a match which is worse than John Cena winning every match, his signature is probably the weakest looking finisher on the roster and he has done nothing in WWE to prove to me that he should beat someone that won a main event of WrestleMania against Mr. WM himself and HHH. That should be enough of why Benoit can destiny Ambrose in a second.

I can't believe how pissed off i am that Dean Ambrose is beating Benoit in votes. Just disgusting.

 

[Navi]

Why the hell are people bringing up Benoits crazy acts that had nothing to do with wrestling in a wrestling match? Oh you guys have principal? It's like one of those people that say littering is terrible and nobody should do it only do walk past litter on their way home after throwing their cigarette butt on the ground. Think about the bigger picture.

How does Dean beat Benoit in a fight? He has weaker looking punches than Jeff Hardys! He does a stupid fake falling out the ring thing about 3 times a match which is worse than John Cena winning every match, his signature is probably the weakest looking finisher on the roster and he has done nothing in WWE to prove to me that he should beat someone that won a main event of WrestleMania against Mr. WM himself and HHH. That should be enough of why Benoit can destiny Ambrose in a second.

I can't believe how pissed off i am that Dean Ambrose is beating Benoit in votes. Just disgusting.

What are you getting so upset about? This is a democratic vote I thought, and people will vote for whatever reason's they see fit. Some would never vote for Benoit for anything because they will never be able to see past what he did in his last moments on earth.

Others like myself just like Ambrose better. I mean it's not like Ambrose is new to the scene, he's been around for more than a decade and what you see in a WWE ring is not the Dean Ambrose I started watching. He is capable of much more than what you've seen, but the WWE likes to put restraints on their wrestlers.

It's not even worth continuing to vote if people are just going to get all pissed off that they see things another way.

 

[Dave]

In my time on this forum, which is now considerable, I have seen some pretty funny shit. I've been here for 7 WrestleZone Tournaments in total. But this result, should it stay the same, is one of the biggest upsets and biggest disgraces to ever happen during the tournament. It's almost as bad as Hull Hogan can't climb a ladder for God's sake...

If people remove the personal Bull shit that happened in Chris Benoit's life, then this is the simplest match in this round to judge. Dean Ambrose is a nothing in the world of professional wrestling. If he retired tomorrow, his greatest accomplishment would be a mid card title run that was entirely forgettable. His skill in the ring is a drop in the water compared to one of the greatest in ring technicians to ever step foot through the ropes. I've long-since told myself not to sweat the result in this tournament because it always becomes a popularity contest, the flavour of the month always doing much better than they actually deserve...

But this takes the cake. It's a complete joke.

 

[Khalifa]

What are you getting so upset about? This is a democratic vote I thought, and people will vote for whatever reason's they see fit. Some would never vote for Benoit for anything because they will never be able to see past what he did in his last moments on earth.

Others like myself just like Ambrose better. I mean it's not like Ambrose is new to the scene, he's been around for more than a decade and what you see in a WWE ring is not the Dean Ambrose I started watching. He is capable of much more than what you've seen, but the WWE likes to put restraints on their wrestlers.

It's not even worth continuing to vote if people are just going to get all pissed off that they see things another way.

I'm not upset, I am just surprised about how much I actually care, which is little but still. More of a someone got the last word pissed off. I know I what I wrote is a bit deceiving but for anyone to be truly upset about this tournament shouldn't be posting really. It is a joke like Dave said though, a disgrace.

It's because of how people view him. People don't even know 100% about what even happened. Like Dave said, take that away and there is no way Ambrose wins. Chris Benoit is a hell of a better wrestler than Ambrose is, more than most actually. He has done more things in terms of accomplishments and has been at the top in various big promotions.

No one hates murder more than me and for whatever the reason may be I still think they're are ways around it. However that still doesn't take away what wrestler Chris Benoit was and it shouldn't to everyone else.

 

[ShinChan]

I have voted Dean Ambrose over Chris Benoit and here are my reasons:

For me, This tournamant is about only professional careers of the wrestlers. We can't sit here and judge a person's life from what we see and hear about them. I am not saying that Benoit was good and I amn't saying that he was bad either. I am just saying to keep personal life of a wrestler away from his professional one. If you can't or don't want to, then Hulk Hogan should be losing in the Ist round itself, isn't it?

So, Yes, I didn't consider Benoit's personal choices and still chose Ambrose over him. Yeah, Benoit goes over Ambrose in terms of accomplishments and even goes over in terms of in-ring work too.

Benoit was the one that made me understand what wrestling is while I was a child. Although I loved Goldberg more but Benoit was the best technical wrestler I saw.

Still I voted Ambrose because he has impressed me more with his stint in WWE. He has an awesome gimmick of "Lunatic Fringe" which he plays very nicely. Despite bad booking and as a sidekick to Roman Reigns, he has made me go nuts for him. Yeah, his punches are dumb and that rebound clothesline also looks like dumb sometimes. But thats what his character is about. Being a lunatic and just facing any obstacle even if he suffers for it. Ambrose is an exceptional case.

So I vote Ambrose over Benoit with the margin being close like 51-49.

 

[ShinChan]

I can't believe how pissed off i am that Dean Ambrose is beating Benoit in votes. Just disgusting.

No need to piss off, buddy. Calm down

Having different opinions at a platform like WrestleZone Forums is a very good thing. It is in no way disgusting. Opinions can and should vary. Each person has a different thinking.

Still, not convinced?
Lets prove it.
Take a pen and write 6 in your hand with it. It is 6 in your opinion, Right?
Just ask another person about it while keeping the hand as it is. That person would see it as 9. Understood? Its just a variable opinion.

 

[Khalifa]

No need to piss off, buddy. Calm down

Having different opinions at a platform like WrestleZone Forums is a very good thing. It is in no way disgusting. Opinions can and should vary. Each person has a different thinking.

Still, not convinced?
Lets prove it.
Take a pen and write 6 in your hand with it. It is 6 in your opinion, Right?
Just ask another person about it while keeping the hand as it is. That person would see it as 9. Understood? Its just a variable opinion.

You are preaching to the converted mate. You are saying this to someone who argues the other side no matter what it is just because there is two sides to a story. My words were probably over the top, but the WZ tournament is so far from my mind in real life that no matter what happens will not phase me, just like everyone else.

Even still, you just said that Benoit is beyond Ambrose in what you would consider for a wrestling match but still voted Ambrose. Now I'm not hating on you Kapu, that is your opinion. I'm just confused on how you (not you but people in general) would vote for people if wrestling skills and proof throughout their career of their skill aren't a factor at all but yet their personal life are.

 

[ShinChan]

You are preaching to the converted mate. You are saying this to someone who argues the other side no matter what it is just because there is two sides to a story. My words were probably over the top, but the WZ tournament is so far from my mind in real life that no matter what happens will not phase me, just like everyone else.

Even still, you just said that Benoit is beyond Ambrose in what you would consider for a wrestling match but still voted Ambrose. Now I'm not hating on you Kapu, that is your opinion. I'm just confused on how you (not you but people in general) would vote for people if wrestling skills and proof throughout their career of their skill aren't a factor at all but yet their personal life are.

Yeah, I agree that Benoit is beyond Ambrose if our concern is only wrestling. And still I voted Ambrose and did give reasons for it too.

And yeah personal life shouldn't be a factor. Noone really knows what happened at there. So if we don't know about something, we should rather not talk about it.

And about preaching, I did only because you seemed to be frustrated about the result.

 

[Tastycles]

I honestly can't believe I live in a world where people are upset that a child murderer is losing a popularity contest. This is exactly why people think wrestling fans are deluded morons.

 

[OYDK]

I honestly can't believe I live in a world where people are upset that a child murderer is losing a popularity contest. This is exactly why people think wrestling fans are deluded morons.

Not upset. Just saying there's really no point of putting him in this tournament if he's going to lose based on what he did in his personal life. That gives his opponent an unfair walk to round 2 making the next round match-up suck that much more. Better to just pull a WWE and cut the guy out completely.

That's my line of thinking at least.

 

[Khalifa]

I honestly can't believe I live in a world where people are upset that a child murderer is losing a popularity contest. This is exactly why people think wrestling fans are deluded morons.

. No one is upset. However if we aren't allowed to debate then what is the point of the contest? Also I thought this wasn't a popularity contest? Isn't that why we are posting arguments.

I understand that people like who they like and there are other matches that have some weird results ATM but all the posts I'm reading are reasons why a certain guy should win the match, none of which state personal situations apart from this one by the way. So is it okay for me to debate reasons why I think Benoit should win, which everyone else agrees with as well? Then when people say that doesn't matter, is it okay for me to think wtf.

So I'm confused. Is it a popularity contest or not? Am I allowed to debate? Am I allowed to express my thoughts when I take this seriously?

 

[Tastycles]

Not upset. Just saying there's really no point of putting him in this tournament if he's going to lose based on what he did in his personal life. That gives his opponent an unfair walk to round 2 making the next round match-up suck that much more. Better to just pull a WWE and cut the guy out completely.

That's my line of thinking at least.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. The response to Benoit's death is one of the only moral decisions the WWE has ever made well.

'Can't we separate his private life from his professional?'. Actually, no, you can't. That's why the radio doesn't play Gary Glitter records anymore.

 

[MCMG]

I am a massive fan of both and this would be an immense match. Indeed, there is a clear contrast. For me, Benoit is one of the greatest in-ring performers of all time. Looking back, he was a trend-setter and a massive influence for the generation to come. Benoit was a guy who could wrestle in any country, in any style and (it is not an exaggeration to say) in any era. His issue, however, was his limited promo ability. Not as bad as some would suggest, mind you.

Ambrose is a contrast. His promo ability is fantastic. Just like Benoit in the ring, Ambrose is a complete natural. As his career progresses, we will see more of his range but he will be remembered (I'm sure of it) like a Punk or Jericho who could cut any promo, at any time. His issue, in my opinion, is his in-ring work. He has been stagnant since The Shield broke up and has only put on a handful of great singles matches, with the majority coming against the same guy.

In terms of drawing ability, it is difficult to say. Ambrose has already spent longer than Benoit as a main-eventer but, in absolute terms, he hasn't reached the same heights. In one or two years, Ambrose wins this. At the moment, he falls into the same category as Bray and Roman where it is too early for them to win these matches. Right now, Benoit deserves to win for his better career and far greater influence.

 

[The Brain]

I honestly can't believe I live in a world where people are upset that a child murderer is losing a popularity contest. This is exactly why people think wrestling fans are deluded morons.

Not everyone is looking at it as a popularity contest. A lot of people are simply going by who the better wrestler was or who would win a match between the two. To say Chris Benoit was a better wrestler than Dean Ambrose is not a sin against humanity. Obviously Benoit's actions were reprehensible but that doesn't mean all of a sudden he was a terrible wrestler. I realize this may be a poor analogy my UK friends but if we had a poll about who the better NFL running back was and the choice were OJ Simpson or Curtis Enis who would you vote for? OJ's tarnished reputation over the past 20+ years does not erase his NFL accomplishments. This poll doesn't ask who was the better human being. It asks who wins this match. I believe if these two wrestlers met in their primes Benoit would win. Does that make me a bad guy?

 

[Tastycles]

Not everyone is looking at it as a popularity contest. A lot of people are simply going by who the better wrestler was or who would win a match between the two. To say Chris Benoit was a better wrestler than Dean Ambrose is not a sin against humanity. Obviously Benoit's actions were reprehensible but that doesn't mean all of a sudden he was a terrible wrestler. I realize this may be a poor analogy my UK friends but if we had a poll about who the better NFL running back was and the choice were OJ Simpson or Curtis Enis who would you vote for? OJ's tarnished reputation over the past 20+ years does not erase his NFL accomplishments. This poll doesn't ask who was the better human being. It asks who wins this match. I believe if these two wrestlers met in their primes Benoit would win. Does that make me a bad guy?

I don't have an issue with people voting for Benoit for the kinds of reasons you've said - it's certainly not surprising. He never really did it for me, so I guess it makes it much easier to get on my high horse.

My point isn't that it's ridiculous that people are voting for Benoit, my point is that it's ridiculous that people can't understand why other people don't want to vote for Benoit.

To use your same analogy, I guarantee the voting would be closer in your OJ Simpson poll than it would be if we were dealing with pure merits of them as footballers.

 

[Dave]

I honestly can't believe I live in a world where people are upset that a child murderer is losing a popularity contest. This is exactly why people think wrestling fans are deluded morons.

This isn't a popularity contest. Or at least it shouldn't be. It should be about who would beat who in a wrestling match, such is the basis of the tournament. I think you know that, mate. And in that vein, there is no way that Ambrose would win.

 

[nightmare]

So we are only supposed to use something that effected the wrestling business or happened in ring? Then I guess Hogan & everyone involved in the steroid scandal is out then. Jeff Hardy & Scott Hall are out for being wasted in the ring. Guess that means Rey Mysterio is disqualified for killing a guy too.

Disliking someone for their personal choices outside the ring is understandable, but diminishing their wrestling ability/accolades because of that is kind of silly. Benoit trumps Ambrose in many categories that count.

 

[#tamale]

And yet, and I can't stress this enough, he almost killed the business. He can be the most "technically sound" guy in the world. But killing the business is the opposite of what a good worker does. He's literally the worst professional wrestler of all time. He is the opposite of what this tournament celebrates and he has no place in the bracket.

This. So much this.

Why the hell are people bringing up Benoits crazy acts that had nothing to do with wrestling in a wrestling match? Oh you guys have principal? It's like one of those people that say littering is terrible and nobody should do it only do walk past litter on their way home after throwing their cigarette butt on the ground. Think about the bigger picture.

Wait, are you comparing littering to murder?

It's because of how people view him. People don't even know 100% about what even happened.

Except the investigators who handled the case and informed the public. It's obvious Kevin Sullivan pulled some mind fuck trick on them to make sure that his satanic murders would be blamed on Benoit.

All of Benoit's accomplishments mean nothing now because what he did in his personal life nearly destroyed the entire business he worked in. Hard to vote for someone who nearly destroyed wrestling. It's not like he's losing to Blue Meanie. He's losing to Ambrose, who holds the similar spot Benoit had, without the World title reign.

 

[Tastycles]

So we are only supposed to use something that effected the wrestling business or happened in ring? Then I guess Hogan & everyone involved in the steroid scandal is out then. Jeff Hardy & Scott Hall are out for being wasted in the ring. Guess that means Rey Mysterio is disqualified for killing a guy too.

Disliking someone for their personal choices outside the ring is understandable, but diminishing their wrestling ability/accolades because of that is kind of silly. Benoit trumps Ambrose in many categories that count.

One day, you will read this back and think 'did I really compare wrestlers taking steroids and painkillers and a tragic accident to murdering a 7 year old boy?' or 'did I refer to killing two people "personal choices"?'

The manner in which people have gone into overdrive defensive mode about this would suggest that I've probably hit a nerve.

Anyway, Ambrose has delivered at least 1 coherent and good promo in his career, which is a lot more than Chris Benoit.

 

[Navi]

And seriously everyone since when did wrestling become an unscripted sport. Let's say for example Benoit didn't do what he did and was still alive. On any given night Ambrose could go over him and pin him clean, or vice versa, depending on what the ultimate boss Vince McMahon wants.

When I look at a wrestler it's hard not to also look at them as a human being, because that's what they are. In Benoit's case well he kind of sucked, Ambrose doesn't.

As for the poster who suggested taking Benoit out so these debates don't happen. The other side of the coin is leave him in and just make him the winner, because it doesn't matter who he's up against, you will be seen as kind of a shithead if you don't vote for him.

 

[Khalifa]

Wait, are you comparing littering to murder?

Yes that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm that cold blooded.

Of course not. That isn't what I was talking about, I was actually talking about principal and explaining a definition for it. I never said littering is on the same level of murder. In better terms, don't pretend to care about something when you really don't. It's sad but has what he done changed my life? No.

Except the investigators who handled the case and informed the public. It's obvious Kevin Sullivan pulled some mind fuck trick on them to make sure that his satanic murders would be blamed on Benoit.

What I was trying to get at is you don't know what state Benoit was in mentally ,and how much control he had of himself and from what time it actually started.

All of Benoit's accomplishments mean nothing now because what he did in his personal life nearly destroyed the entire business he worked in. Hard to vote for someone who nearly destroyed wrestling. It's not like he's losing to Blue Meanie. He's losing to Ambrose, who holds the similar spot Benoit had, without the World title reign.

But you just don't lose ability and skill because of what you have done: if it's a wrestling contest Benoit wins. If it's a popularity contest Ambrose wins. It would be a fun match to watch but if we are talking about what they can do in the ring then there isn't a debate.

 

[nightmare]

One day, you will read this back and think 'did I really compare wrestlers taking steroids and painkillers and a tragic accident to murdering a 7 year old boy?' or 'did I refer to killing two people "personal choices"?'

The manner in which people have gone into overdrive defensive mode about this would suggest that I've probably hit a nerve.

Anyway, Ambrose has delivered at least 1 coherent and good promo in his career, which is a lot more than Chris Benoit.

Wasnt putting them in a list by hierarchy. Those are all things that put a big negative toward the business. Plus Snuka killed someone & nobody is talking about him being booted from the tournament.

 

[Coco]

Of course not. That isn't what I was talking about, I was actually talking about principal and explaining a definition for it. I never said littering is on the same level of murder. In better terms, don't pretend to care about something when you really don't.

So now you know what goes on in my head? You know what I do and don't care about?

For someone who's so concerned about using evidence only observable within a professional wrestling context, I'm surprised you'd limit your observational skills by sticking your head so far up your ass.

Stick to what you know. If that means logging out and never coming back, all the better.

Plus Snuka killed someone & nobody is talking about him being booted from the tournament.

That murder didn't leave a stink on the business that almost killed it forever in the eyes of the public. See the difference?

Since you probably don't, I'll spell it out for you:

-The goal of professional wrestling is to build and sustain a work that drains the wallets of paying customers ad infinitum.

-Benoit killing his family and himself put an unflattering light on the industry which nearly cost everyone in it their livelihood.

-Good professional wrestlers don't nearly shut down the business, brother.

As much as you child-murderer-loving mental gymnasts can't believe it, I'm adhering to the spirit of this tournament 100%.

The point of the tournament is to crown the best professional wrestler of all time.

A guy who nearly killed the work literally cannot be the best professional wrestler of all time.

Because he is the worst. Ever.

It's that simple.

So yes: Dean Ambrose > the worst professional wrestler of all time. Principle has nothing to do with it. A smart person who takes this tournament seriously would vote Mantaur over Benoit.

 

[OYDK]

As much as you child-murderer-loving mental gymnasts can't believe it, I'm adhering to the spirit of this tournament 100%.

Low, even for you. This is why I say take Benoit out of the tournament. Can't vote for him or argue about his career without people acting like we condone him killing his son.

And as for almost killing the business, the Benoit situation saved many other people from going through the same thing. He's the reason concussion protocol was implemented and why guys like Daniel Bryan aren't out destroying their brain right now. And before anybody jumps in NO I'M NOT SAYING WHAT HAPPENED WAS A POSITIVE. But some positives did come out of that tragedy.

Terrible situation but call it what it is.