"Austin 3:16" or "Punk's Pipebomb"?

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

When you talk about professional wrestling promos that completely changed the course of a wrestler's career, two come to my mind right away.

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AND

[YOUTUBE]2Is9SdaC-X8[/YOUTUBE]​

Two iconic nights that in most people's opinions, paved the way for both Punk and Austin's respective career. That's why I've always found it fitting - even though he swears the shirt was just accessible at the time - that CM Punk was wearing Stone Cold's shirt that night.

I've got two questions, and part of the reason I placed this in the GWD is that it's usually populated by a brand of better posters. They're both WWE guys, but its a collision of two eras.

1) Quite simply, which iconic career-changing moment has the edge? Which was better?

2) Which Superstar took off from this promo and had the better year following the promo? The reason I want to limit it to a single year is simply that it's just not fair to try and compare their full careers. CM Punk is one year removed, give or take about a month from that moment, so that is where the discussion ends.

Steve Austin: June 23, 1996 - August 3, 1997
-Won King of the Ring that night.
-"Won" the Royal Rumble, really adding steam to his feud with Bret Hart
-Face Bret Hart at WM13, in a "losing" attempt. The famous double-switch night. Epic match
-Faced the Undertaker, in a losing attempt
-Won the Tag Championships twice; once w/ HBK and once w/ Dude Love
-Continued on his feud with the Hart family
-Won the IC Title at SummerSlam, despite breaking his neck

CM Punk: June 27, 2011 - August 19, 2012
-Won the WWE Championship at Money in the Bank
-Defeated John Cena at SummerSlam to retain the WWE Title
-Lost the title to Alberto del Rio at SummerSlam because of MITB and an assault by Kevin Nash
-Lost at Night of Champion, Hell in a Cell and Vengeance due to numerous outside attacks.
-Won the WWE Championship at Survivor Series
-Retained in a fantastic TLC match against ADR and Miz
-Retained at Rumble against Ziggler
-Retained at Elimination Chamber
-Retained in a great feud against Chris Jericho at WM28, Extreme Rules
-Retained against Daniel Bryan, and then Daniel Bryan & Kane
-Will face John Cena and Big Show at SummerSlam for the WWE Championship

On one hand you've got CM Punk winning the WWE Title twice and carrying it for the better part of a year, but on the other you have Steve Austin starting the Attitude Era and being in some of the greatest matches of all time. Both lost their fare share of matches as well.

Discuss!

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Is this a serious question? You are comparing two different guys in two different circumstances. Steve Austin had never been the man before that promo, he never achieved anything that relevant to have a gigantic push like CM Punk.

You see CM Punk had the better year obviously, but by the time he cut that promo, he was already relevant, a former world champion on his own right and he had a good fan base to start with. By the time he made that he had already a six years WWE career and that is something that helps you gain trust by the management don't you think?

Six years was Austin's entire WWF career, so I want you to tell me who do you think that did more in that time? Obviously CM Punk worked-shoot was bigger in terms of content, and since he was pretty relevant by that time, it felt like an awesome thunder just set fire to our TV. Austin promo was the creation of his, for lack of better term, nickname. It's the day that people started to notice Steve Austin as a good investment and good performer. CM Punk was already relevant, so this thread doesn't compare anything comparable.

 

[asiatic7]

I understand the question, yes Punk was already established as a former 3 time World champion and was involved in some high profile feuds, featuring: Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton, Jeff Hardy and Undertaker.

Austin on the other hand was only one year into his WWF run and his only notable feud at the time was against Savio Vega.

While most would agree that both promos had a significant impact, Austin skyrocketed to the top. CM Punk's run, although he enjoyed lots of success, kind of lost some steam after the meaningless HHH loss.

I think it's a little too soon to really judge though. Austin is already a solidified, bonified icon in the wrestling biz. And even with all CM Punks success, he is still building on his legacy.

At this point, "Austin 3:16" had more impact, career wise. Punk's "Pipe Bomb" just had more shock value.

Good thread.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I understand the question, yes Punk was already established as a former 3 time World champion and was involved in some high profile feuds, featuring: Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton, Jeff Hardy and Undertaker.

Austin on the other hand was only one year into his WWF run and his only notable feud at the time was against Savio Vega.

It is a good question, made so by the circumstances and aftermath. To simplify, I feel that Austin's promo had less immediate impact than Punk's, yet led to a career whose effect and significance was incredible. It can't be understated; Stone Cold was the most popular and sought after pro wrestler in the world. The promo kicked it off, yet his body of work that followed the promo is what made him into a household name.

Conversely, Punk's promo itself was enormous in it's impact, yet (rather surprisingly) didn't lead to as much as Austin's did in terms of what happened afterward. We'll never truly know if this was WWE's unintended result or if management knew it would be unrealistic to try and sustain the universal clamor generated by Punk's cross-legged rantings. After his unique promo, everybody was talking about him and what would ensue but, as I see it, what resulted never measured up to the promise of the promo. Of course, it's all still going on for Punk; he may have more surprises in store for us yet.

 

[HBsam31]

While CM Punk was relevant before the pipe bomb, he was hardly a household name. He held the Championship a couple of times, but since we are comparing different eras here that point is not as relevant as it may seem. Now granted this was in WCW, but Austin was a US champion, a TV champion, and a tag champ. I would compare those reigns to Punk's early title reigns. So for argument's sake lets put the two on equal playing ground until the time of the promos. After Austin 316 was coined he just exploded. It was upward momentum for quite a while after that, and I am sure there was unborn twins in wombs that were giving each other Stunners lol. He was that big. Punk took off then stalled then won the title and has been very successful, but it just doesn't have that Austin 316 feel to it. Punk may have had the better year in terms of successful title defenses, but I just can't see it being more successful than what was produced the year after Austin 316. I took the long way around this one, but there is a lot to consider here with the different eras, and how prestigious titles were,. It's unfair to say Austin was not relevant before his Austin 316 speech.

 

[IT Factor]

Both promos did what they were intended to do; make their stars famous. Immediately after Austin delivered the 3:16 promo, people connected with Stone Cold and became fans. Obviously, CM Punk's pipebomb was different from Austin's promo in that he was limited in what he could say within the confines of a PG show. And Punk's circumstances were different because he was already established by the time pipebomb came around. You cannot discount Stone Cold Steve Austin though, because he is easily the most popular superstar in WWE history. People identified with the rebel doing and saying what he wanted to the boss, which people couldn't do with their actual boss. It was a genius concept and having McMahon as the antagonist was brilliant. In my view, that's what CM Punk is missing. Some character to play off of. He had elements of that with Johnny Ace, but not to the degree of Austin/McMahon.

I do prefer Punk's pipebomb moreso than Austin's 3:16 speech because Punk smartly blended real-life issues and a good balance of storyline. He addressed real issues, which is why alot of fans related to it and enjoyed it. Too many talents today are scared to voice their concerns and more need to learn from Punk's lead. Imagine how great the WWE shows would be if everyone did that.

I'm a fan of both Punk and of Austin. I believe you cannot accurately say one promo was better than the other. Both were big in their eras and both got the stars over. I would personally choose Punk's pipebomb because of how different it was from the norm and how personal it seemed to be. Austin's 3:16 was great but it didn't really transcend WWE like the pipebomb.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Is this a serious question? You are comparing two different guys in two different circumstances. Steve Austin had never been the man before that promo, he never achieved anything that relevant to have a gigantic push like CM Punk.

You see CM Punk had the better year obviously, but by the time he cut that promo, he was already relevant, a former world champion on his own right and he had a good fan base to start with. By the time he made that he had already a six years WWE career and that is something that helps you gain trust by the management don't you think?

Six years was Austin's entire WWF career, so I want you to tell me who do you think that did more in that time? Obviously CM Punk worked-shoot was bigger in terms of content, and since he was pretty relevant by that time, it felt like an awesome thunder just set fire to our TV. Austin promo was the creation of his, for lack of better term, nickname. It's the day that people started to notice Steve Austin as a good investment and good performer. CM Punk was already relevant, so this thread doesn't compare anything comparable.

I do think it's a serious point worth discussing. If you don't, I'm sure you realize the irony in discussing something you don't think is worth discussing...

CM Punk won the WWE Championship and became "the man" for the first time in 2011. He had won the World Title on three separate occasions in the past, as well as the ECW Title and had a really great run with it. But there was never a point during that period where he was THE guy WWE turned to. He did main event two PPV's in the Championshipship match, but in both encounters it was clear WWE was putting Jeff Hardy over as the bigger Superstar. They would have continued that too, had he not packed up and left shortly after.

I kind of compare the work Punk did on Smackdown to a lot of the stuff Austin did before that night. Wrestling was still quite a different place, and he had worked in a ton of the big promotions. Some of his matches in the Sportatorium still hold up to this day. Not to mention working in ECW and WCW. Was Punk featured more by WWE than Austin in the build up to their two moments? Sure. Was Punk a bigger nationally recognized star than Austin by those moments...eh. Debatable.

During the year time period we're discussing, both men escalated to the top of the same industry. CM Punk won the WWE Title; Austin won King of the Ring. CM Punk won the WWE Title, again; Austin won the Royal Rumble. CM Punk faces John Cena in an iconic match in Chicago to never be forgotten, for the WWE Title; Austin faced Bret Hart in THE iconic WRESTLEMANIA match for the title, that will never be forgotten. CM Punk, although the most talked about guy in wrestling during his year, still played second to guys like John Cena, The Rock and Brock Lesnar. Steve Austin, although arguably the hottest wrestler in the world at that point, was still second to guys like Bret Hart, the Undertaker and, for a brief window, Shawn Michaels.

I guess what we're really talking about, when we break it down is:

-Punk "shoot" vs. Austin 3:16
-Punk/Cena at MITB vs. Austin/Hart at WM13
-Punk wins WWE Title vs. Austin wins King of the Ring
-Punk wins WWE Title again vs. Austin wins Royal Rumble
-Punk feuds with Jericho, Ziggler, Cena, Bryan vs. Austin feuds with Hart family
-Punk retains at SummerSlam vs. Austin wins IC Title w/ broken neck at SummerSlam

 

[braveh]

Here is the difference. They both wanted that breakthrough promo and they both got it. Steve Austin had a whole agenda and a plan, he had catchphrase and a wrestling mind.

CM Punk had nothing but to go out there and try to bury every wrestler he could. It was fun to watch while it happened but we all know buyrates were down for SS 11, NOC 11 and so forth. What CM Punk tried to do, or whatever his plan was, did nothing for the business or the tv-ratings. He had no gimmick thought out, he had no catchphrase (best in world? plz!!!), he was a hack compared to Steve Austin.

 

[dtroppe]

Austin's promo wins this by a million. Other comparable promos to Austins would be the Rock joining the Nation, and Scott Hall invading WCW. Punks promo was a major flop- because Punk is a midcarder. You cant compare the guy to Austin who took a low rated product and ran it up. Punk took a medium related product and kept it medium. It takes the Rock, Lesner, HHH, and Cena to bring the ratings up these days.

 

[Miko]

Unless Punk reaches a whole new level where he leaves Cena in the dust, which he wont, because as much as I like him, he's not good enough and he can be too self indulgent, Austin 3:16 means more on every single level, add in the fact that Punks is only cool because it was somewhat of a "shoot" whereas Austin's was awesome because he was playing his character, which is why I've still got time for The Rock these days in amongst this more smarky bunch of wrestlers.

Austin 3:16 started off a career that after the Ringmaster looked like it might be heading down the drain, people say his push was the most perfectly handled ever, either that or his repeated losses were irrelevant because he's Stone Cold Steve Austin and people wanted to watch that shit. Add in that he's arguably the best to have ever picked up a mic, had a character which he played to perfection and they were on to a winner. Punk was treated like hot shit after that pipe-bomb by comparison, they had him pretend to leave the company with the title and everything, what now? Shafted most likely and probably rightly in favour of Cena/Rock 2. Austin was still a chaser for a year or more afterward, and ended up being possibly the greatest wwf wrestler ever. Punks was good fun and shouldn't be underrated, but if its compared to one of the best and influential promo's Stone Cold of all people has ever done, it should be laughed out of the building.

 

[ABMorales787]

Please Mike. Steve Austin yelled out 3 sentences of badass and with that brought the WWF from under WCW in a while and changed wrestling. Punk had to publicly whine about his problems with WWE and fool everyone into thinking he was leaving and afterwards, he was still playing second fiddle to John Cena.

Punk have spent the next year as WWE Champion, but Steve Austin was undisputed as WWE's top draw selling out merchandise consistently while Punk died off after July.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

Please Mike. Steve Austin yelled out 3 sentences of badass and with that brought the WWF from under WCW in a while and changed wrestling. Punk had to publicly whine about his problems with WWE and fool everyone into thinking he was leaving and afterwards, he was still playing second fiddle to John Cena.

Punk have spent the next year as WWE Champion, but Steve Austin was undisputed as WWE's top draw selling out merchandise consistently while Punk died off after July.

I also agree with this, but I'd like to ask the forum, does anyone know if the Austin 3:16 promo increased ratings in later weeks? Because from what I remember Punk's promo didn't actually change the ratings at all despite the amount of online talk it had.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Ok, this is an interesting one but you have to bear one thing in mind when you look at 3:16 - Pillman was also on the card and was cutting controversial promos as well, one before Austin took the mic.

What made the Austin speech "electric" was that he had been injured, gone and gotten stitches and come back to win. So he was there, with blood on his face, swearing for the first time on WWE TV and "mocking" religion via Jake Roberts - but make no mistake, if Pillman had been wrestling on that show rather than on crutches, he would have won KOTR and made a similar if not more shocking speech. Austin took something Pillman had done elsewhere and set the stage for that night(probably with his blessing) and used it to kick-start his own career. Yes the response was massive but it was the way the Austin story then unfolded that made him, all that speech did was give him the catchphrase. The double turn at Mania, the injury at Summerslam, Mike Tyson - they all made Austin what he was, not just 3:16.

Now I understand why people say the Pipebomb was different... yes Punk was more established... but was he? He was the guy who lost a title without ever being in the match! He was the least important world champion in WWE history, even less than Bob Backlund during that first reign, and even in his 2nd was not really considered "a top guy". Austin used his moment to launch himself, Punk used it to basically torpedo himself.

Nothing should have worked for Punk after that, conventional wisdom said, he is done, Vince will fire him etc... The way the mic cut once he got to the bullying section made it all seem that little bit more real.

Now how much of it was work, how much of it was shoot will never be known, but I truly believe at that point, Punk was on his way out when his contract was up shortly after. I can easily imagine Vince saying to someone "let him say what he thinks, he'll be gone soon and we'll get some press." and that I think is where it went either very wrong, or very right.

You knew it was big when ESPN and TMZ were picking it up, suddenly Punk was known EVERYWHERE, his contract situation was a talking point and he had real buzz for both WWE and himself. It's not a stretch for Vince to be taken aback and quickly have to agree to some of Punk's demands and for Punk to have a little bit of a "little napoleon complex" about it all to make sure he got the big man treatment this time. In reality I think all the contract stuff was done very shortly after that speech and the rest worked, but Punk had proven his point - he was always must see in his eyes, but now Vince and the rest of the world had taken notice and the push for me that makes it far more impactful...After all getting "the audience of one" to notice you is one thing, to get it to change it's mind? a whole different level.

 

[IWC's AntiChrist!]

Austin 3:16 was great, it was edgy, it was anti-religious, it was striking, it was first of its kind, it was anti-style, it was the next big thing coming.

While CM Punk's Pipebomb was cool, it was off the track, it was unexpected, it was rebellious, it was of the "straight from the heart" feeling, it was his next big step.

As for the winner I believe Austin wins here, because his promo paved a new way of programming that WWE later created. It created a volatile effect. Punk's promo was great for him, it gave him tremendous support, it created a sole character change, but it didnt acted as catalyst for the company to change. Austin's 3:16 promo did that.