Are we giving the marriage too much credit?

[wbuqed]

Ok so the rap on HHH nowadays from most people is that he wouldn't have most of his credentials today if he weren't married to the bosses daughter. Now while it is possible that that is true I'm gonna put something out there and see if it takes. I think the reasons apart from his connections that he is at where he's at is due to the fact that HHH is the quintessential employee. In 1996 he made the mistake of "the curtain call" and gets punished by Vince. After a year of jobbing seemingly without complaint he regains his status at KOTR 1997, moves onto DX and off to the races. Also you can't dispute the fact that he is one of the best character actors the WWE has had in the last 10-15 years, able to convert near seemlessly from face to heel and cut promos that some wouldn't imagine, yes some we regret seeing *cough* katie vick *cough*.

Anyway just wanted to toss that out there and see if you guys thought that HHH's status was mostly based on his marriage or if there's room to argue that he's just that damn good despite his connections.

 

[NoDamnMercy]

I actually agree with you on this. I believe(and i could be wrong here) but HHH won his first championship before he and Steph started dating. Before then he was still a great wrestler/entertainer. He was a multiple time IC champ(back when the belt ment something) and i think he would have become a multiple time champ even if he didnt marry steph.

 

[flocker]

I could make a case that Vinnie Mac used his daughter to make sure he kept "possession" of his top performer/ booking committee member.

If HHH had left in the middle of the dx run, wcw might just own wwe.

 

[Cookie14]

HHH would have been a huge star with or without Stephanie.
The only career that was affected in anyway by their marriage was Chyna who chose to leave WWE when HHH and Stephanie got together, and the only reason that she achieved anything like her level of success was because she was dating HHH.
I doubt any main event wrestler in WWE (then or now) would get half as much heat as HHH does if they had been the one to marry Steph.

 

[kobrad]

I agree that HHH would of won some title BUT.....Marrying steph is a really big upgrade to his career there is no way that he would be as big as he is today if he didnt. He basically calls the shots now with steph anyways.

 

[Low_Ki]

I think you might be right.

The war rages on with this debate but I think HHH still would have been a top talent even if he wasn't the boss' son-in-law.

You brought up a good point with him being jobbed after 'that' incident and he seemed to just take it in his stride. He was the fun loving face in DX and his first real heel turn after The Corporation/Corporate Ministry saga was nothing short of amazing. And his feud's with Austin and The Rock really elevated his character and performance in the ring.

His 'retiring' of Mick Foley was also another highlight, it really pushed his heel persona to the limit.

I still think he would have made it to the top of the WWE as his mic work and he work ethic are very strong, and also being that he is one of the few remaining 'Attitude Era' workers left in the main event picture, he is always going to be respected. People will always say that his marriage does affect the politics behind the curtain, and to some degree it probably does, but this is the way of the world and if it hadn't been HHH, it could well have been Test (how horrible would that have been to have his character on TV each week in the main event, God Rest His Soul).

But to answer, I'm sure that being who he is has its perks, and people are always going to be critical, but if it wasn't him it would be someone else.

 

[Cookie14]

I agree that HHH would of won some title BUT.....Marrying steph is a really big upgrade to his career there is no way that he would be as big as he is today if he didnt. He basically calls the shots now with steph anyways.

The reason that he calls the shots with Steph is because there is no-one better to do the job.

He's been loyal to the company for over 15 years (rules out Bischoff, and Heyman)

He knows what is best the business (unlike Hogan)

He has said that he wants to be in the business for life (rules out the Rock, Austin, Batista, actually, almost any WWE maineventer over the past 15 years)

The only other people in WWE that fits that decription are John Cena, but he has only been there half the time of HHH, or Taker, and he has almost complete control over everything his character is involved in

 

[closet_fan]

it doesn't hurt being married into the family, but i don't think it helps that much. people who knew HHH before he even became HHH said he had the hunger for the sport. And he was pretty big while dating Chyna.

So if he wasn't married to steph, i think he would still be as big as he is now. he is the ultimate hands on type of wrestler who wants to learn about everything regarding the business. i think if he was married to a no name or another wrestler, he would still be as big a draw as he is now.

 

[Judah's Lion]

i don't know Triple H personally and so i can't speak for his character in real life. however, his skill and talent and credibility inside the ring cannot be denied. he has had some bad promos and bad matches, even a bad feud or two, but who hasn't?

Triple H, as a rule, is gold on the mic and in the ring. he's got very believable feuds and matches, can switch from heel to face pretty flawlessly and is not too holy to put a boy over in a match. in fact, he's lost a couple of mania main events by tap out and if memory serves, was the first to do so.

his faithfulness has certainly stood the test of time as only the Undertaker has been there longer. he has done a movie or two and been a special guest on tv a few times, but clearly his passion is wrestling and that is a unique quality in and of itself. this is all he wants to do for life, and as one already mentioned, this separates him from the likes of Hogan, the Rock, Austin, Goldberg, Angle, Batista, etc.

plus, i appreciate the guy's work ethic. he's finished matches thru severe injuries (though i know that he is not alone in that aspect and this is a part of pro wrestling that i truly admire from all the workers -- the show must go on!!) and been a pioneer for quite a few gimmick matches. even if he wasn't the first to wrestle in each gimmick, he has certainly allowed his body to take a toll to participate in these, to name a few: cage matches, ladder matches, hell in a cell, street fights, first blood matches, last man standing, iron man matches, elimination chamber matches, three stages of hell matches, stretcher matches, strap matches, etc. this guy puts his body on the line time after time and keeps coming back. he's earned his place.

the marriage is just a bonus and a perk. but with or without it, the guy has worked his tail off in and out of the ring and has earned his stripes.

 

[Big Hairy]

Triple H would have got where he did regardless.

 

[Agent_of_Anarchy]

Also you can't dispute the fact that he is one of the best character actors the WWE has had in the last 10-15 years, able to convert near seemlessly from face to heel and cut promos that some wouldn't imagine, yes some we regret seeing *cough* katie vick *cough*.

This may be a little off topic, but am I the only dude in the world who thought the Katie Vick storyline was funny? I remember laughing my ass off watching that! Yeah, it was bad taste, but that it what made it so fuckin funny. I still laugh when ever I see Triple H in the Kane mask pretending to fuck a corpse in a coffin. I'm also a big fan of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre series (original) so maybe thats why, but either way, I'm a fan of Triple H being a necrophiliac.

But back on topic, Triple H would be where he is at reguardless of who he is fucking. "The Game" gimmick is awesome and he has one the best entrances in WWE, great mic skills and is a very versitile wrestler. He can do almost any gimmick match as well as straight up wrestling matches and has a great physic to boot. The fact that he was nailing Steph in her prime is just a bonus.

 

[Alex_U]

Both sides have good points, but he would have been a superstar regardless. The only question that I have is, would he still be in the WWE if he hadn't married Steph? I think that he would have jumped ship to "test" the waters in TNA. Once Nash was there he would have had a perfect "insider" and the star power to put himself at the top of the Brand.

New Thread Topic hint:

What if the Clique would have reunited in TNA, would the WWE still be the top dog in the yard?

 

[Dre Guevara]

I have 2 agree with some of U guys, I feel that Trips still would've gotten 2 where he is in the WWE without marrying Stephanie. I've heard alot of wrestlers praise him as being one of the hardest workers in the industry, IMO, he's not just married 2 the boss' daughter, he's also married 2 the business.

 

[nevy]

HHH didn't need Stephanie he was trained by Killer Kowalski and is big as hell.He can wrestle good his promos are good.And he had the Kliq.So I believe one way or another he would big.He would probably have less title reigns though.

 

[AjStyles]

I agree that HHH would of won some title BUT.....Marrying steph is a really big upgrade to his career there is no way that he would be as big as he is today if he didnt. He basically calls the shots now with steph anyways.

Seriously, do you even watch wrestling, TripleH is one of the best all-round in-ring performers of all time, he proves it week in and week out, whether it be through promos or matches, TripleH proves he deserves to be where he is right now, a 13-time world champion

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Well obviously it doesn't hurt being married to the bosses daughter as you will get SOME sort of immunity for being daddies little girls hubby, but with that said I really don't think the marriage affected HHH's career the way most people THINK it did.

Lets look at the facts, when HHH won his 1st world title he was dating CHYNA not Steph, so that means that he was already a main eventer and worlds champion before he was even involved with Stephanie. HHH had about 4 world titles before he was even involved with Stephanie, so we can rule out that he wouldn't of been multiple time champion because he was before he was even involved with Steph.

But now lets look at the biggest fact, HHH was in the Kliq and with Shawn Michaels when he 1st started back in '95, meaning he was already in Vinces good books and already had pull backstage. HHH had a hell of alot of pull backstage LONG BEFORE he ever started dating Steph.

Lastly, lets look at how he wouldn't have 13 world title reigns without Steph. Once again I say not true because of this simple fact, Edge has 9 world titles in 4 years, Cena has 7 world titles in 5 years, Orton has about 6 world titles to his name in 6 years. Frankly, compared to the numbers you see right now 13 titles in 11 years doesn't really seem that daunting. The fact of the matter is people blow through World title reigns like they were nothing (in 98-99 the Rock had 3 title reigns in 4 months and Foley had 2 reigns in 2 months), really 13 title reigns in this day in age really isn't that big of a deal, I have a feeling 8 years from now Edge will probably have like 30 World Title reigns at the rate he's going.

Of course there will be advantages being married into the 1st family of wrestling (I'm sure Schwarzenegger had an advantage being a Kennedy) but that shouldn't take away from the fact that HHH is a very dedicated and very good worker. He works hard and has deserved everything he got in the wrestling business. Sure there are tons of wrestlers more talented, but there aren't too many out there with HHH's drive and determination.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

plus, i appreciate the guy's work ethic. he's finished matches thru severe injuries (though i know that he is not alone in that aspect and this is a part of pro wrestling that i truly admire from all the workers -- the show must go on!!) and been a pioneer for quite a few gimmick matches. even if he wasn't the first to wrestle in each gimmick, he has certainly allowed his body to take a toll to participate in these, to name a few: cage matches, ladder matches, hell in a cell, street fights, first blood matches, last man standing, iron man matches, elimination chamber matches, three stages of hell matches, stretcher matches, strap matches, etc. this guy puts his body on the line time after time and keeps coming back. he's earned his place.

the marriage is just a bonus and a perk. but with or without it, the guy has worked his tail off in and out of the ring and has earned his stripes.

I'm glad someone else has noticed this too. When I started watching wrestling, while he wasn't my favourite character or anything, I remember seeing him constantly being busted open and actually found it strange to see him without a crimson mask. Now yes he wasn't the only guy to get busted open at that time, but for someone that was dating the bosses daughter at the time, it's hard NOT to respect his commitment to the profession.

Despite not being a big fan of the last DX phase, he still found a way to be entertaining and is quite an under-rated comedic performer I think which was good to see.

People are always going to bring up stuff like Katie Vick and the "Horse-face" from time to time, and whilst not defending him for that, these are minor disappointments that are far out-weighed by what he has done for the company over the years. That's how I see it anyway

 

[Coco]

I could make a case that Vinnie Mac used his daughter to make sure he kept "possession" of his top performer/ booking committee member.

No. You can't.

If HHH had left in the middle of the dx run, wcw might just own wwe.

No. WCW had no idea what to do with anybody. In addition, Triple H needed a major opponent to be a major difference maker where numbers were concerned, and WCW wouldn't have given him the sort of storied feud he had with The Rock.

Triple H's numbers aren't don't live up to the Hogan-like push he's normally on. He'd be a star, but probably on the Jericho or Edge level. Triple H's push is not proportional to the results he produces, and the notion that being in the family and being a buddy with Vince's favorite wrestler haven't helped him is laughable. It's just a fact of life.

Now whether Triple H's political power upsets you is something you need to work through on your own. But its existence, by the accounts of many people who have left WWE in the last decade, is almost without real dispute at this point. Don't let guys in the company now fool you with the way they circle the wagons.

 

[bongorider]

Fact is that HHH has been part of the creative team since 1997.

He didn't acquire power when he married Steph, he was already a powerful guy, it only grew because of that.

 

[.]

This is yes & no for me: Triple H is a great all 'round preformer and would still be in the predicament he is in now regardless of who he is doing. He has all the skills necessary and he got those when he got the gimmick of the game(Originally for Owen Hart[R.I.P] but anyways)
But also In my opinion Triple H has put alot of his power that he obtained due to Steph go to his head. When was the last time you saw triple H put someone over that wasn't already a former world champ? Look at Chris Jericho: He has put over the likes of R-Truth, JTG(I remember JTG beating him in a single's match leading up to Jerishow vs Cryme Tyme), John Morrison, Kofi kingston numerous times, jack Swagger & hell the guy even showed that Ricky Steamboat can still work! Triple H's lowest fued in a while was a DX vs. Legacy and hell when they lost it was Shawn who took the fall!
So I believe we are giving the marriage enough credit.

 

[thepalaceprince]

HHH would be a top performer and a future hall of famer with or without stephanie. Has his marriage to her helped his career? Yea probably a little but he was already a star before he got involved with steph. HHH is a great perfomer. Whether you love him or hate him you better respect him. hes ben apart of possibly the most iconic tag team in history hes been apart of some of the greatest factions of all time and hes had some incredible feuds and matches over the years. Idc if he married steph if he wasnt great at what he did then vince wouldve found something else for him to do within the company

 

[waylonmercy]

HHH would have reached the status of a Rock had he not married Stephanie but we wouldn't see him embarassing other stars with low ball comments that make others look bad. My only problem with him is his smart ass comments that hurt another wrestler. He did it to Chris Masters, he started the downfall of Eugene who was at one time really hot and that heel turn of his killed him. With the power HHH has and the smarts he has he should know better than to continuously make himself out to outsmart others.

 

[BWEEZY2009]

People tend to forget Trips had politic power before marrying Steph

It's not like he got on the knee proposed and Vince threw him the keys. He was already a great performer at the time he received backstage power as well.


It'll always be arguable and you're always going to see 50/50 love/hate with him as long as he stays on the main event scene.

 

[FromTheSouth]

HHH would have reached the status of a Rock had he not married Stephanie but we wouldn't see him embarassing other stars with low ball comments that make others look bad. My only problem with him is his smart ass comments that hurt another wrestler. He did it to Chris Masters, he started the downfall of Eugene who was at one time really hot and that heel turn of his killed him. With the power HHH has and the smarts he has he should know better than to continuously make himself out to outsmart others.

Chris Masters and Eugene had a far bigger problem than HHH. That problem was that they sucked. Masters had no charisma and Eugene was stuck in a shitty character with no direction.

And, to assume that HHH's comments bring people down is idiocy. That's his character. It's always been his character. Do you think The Nation parody brought down The Rock? Of course not. It's not a joke here or there that brings people down, it's their lack of ability to make people legitimately care about the angle they're involved in.

HHH got where he is based on merit alone. He plays his character well and, in the end, that's all that matters. If he was shit, he'd be treated as such, no matter who he married.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I think HHH would definitley have been a ME player without a doubt. I don't think however, that he'd have as many world title reigns if he wasn't married to Steph.

Look at all the other attitude era wrestlers who have been the champion and count how many reigns they've had (approximately. I'll look it up later when i can be bothered):

HBK had like 4 or 5?
Taker's had 7
Kane's had 1
Big Show has had 2
Jericho has had 5
Edge has had 9
Austin had about 7
Rock had 7
Foley had 3
Angle had 5 or 6
HHH has had 13!!!!!!!!

Now if i personally were to list those guys in order of talent and ability, HHH wouldn't be in the top 3, yet he's got more title reigns under his belt than all of those guys, including a couple of guys who've been there a LOT longer than HHH (HBK and Taker).

Plus there have been several occassions where HHH didn't even need the belt. Did he need to win the belt from Orton a month after he won it? Did he need to drop the belt to Goldberg only to win it right back again? Did he need to drop the belt to Big Show or Vince, simply to regain the title within 30 days of losing it? Title reigns that were ended pointlessly or started pointlessly have given this guy more title reigns than he actually needed.

HHH is definitely as good as everyone says he is. However, he's also a politicking prick allegedly, and those rumours started WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY before he started dating Stephanie, so i think a lot of people see him marrynig her for that reason.

Now a successful guy who has an alleged history of burying other people and politicking against certain others, suddenly marries the bosses daughter, and becomes infinitely more successful than he did before..........

..... you can see why people jump to the conclusion that if he didn't have Steph, he'd have amounted to shit.

But those of us who pay attention and don't have goldfish memories know that HHH was getting World Title shots as early as 1998/9. A full 5 years before he and Steph got married. They even state on the McMahon DVD that when they were doing the McMahon-Helmsley Angle, that Steph and Paul weren't dating at that point, and that Vince had a very high opinion of HHH before then anyway.

So personally, having never liked HHH in any regard really, but respecting the man's abilities, i'd say he's definitely a 'legend', but i don't think he'd have earned as many accolades as he has at this stage, if he weren't married to Steph.

ME Legend, but if he weren't married into the McMahon family, i think his number of World title reigns would still be in the single digits along with every othe great wrestler of the Attitude era.