Are we being played for fools? Triple H related

[Wald]

This thread on the possible new blueprint for getting a guy over got me thinking, particularly this part

The pattern I saw was something you might have observed yourself. Yes, they all have this notion attached to them that the WWE machine doesn't really believe in them.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=5065067

It's an interesting theory because it basically makes marks of all of us because we think we're the ones getting Bryan, Ziggler, Punk etc. over in spite of Vince McMahon. It creates an Us vs Them where we team up with our chosen ones to take on Vince, Cena, Orton, Batista and whoever else. Seems plausible and would be a smart move from WWE to do it and is it turns WWE's competition inward. Instead of it being WWE v TNA, ROH, AAA, Lucha Underground & NJPW it becomes WWE v the IWC's WWE.

So I thought about it some more and realised that this is happening not just in the ring but also behind the curtain. How many times have we been told Triple H's vision of wrestling is NXT whilst Vince's is Raw? It's an idea that has become deeply ingrained in most of the IWC and I often see people longing for the day Triple H takes over from Vince fully.

But when you step back and think about it it seems a bit weird doesn't it? Triple H has been known to be the ultimate political mover in WWE history. He has served on the booking committee for over ten years, his wife was head of creative for most of that and really he has become an extension of Vince. He probably has the ear of Vince more than anyone else on the planet and so has a bit of clout with the guy.

But yet he is being presented as the IWC saviour of the main roster. The guy who is in touch with the audience and is just like all of us. A guy whose roster would be filled with the likes of Kevin Steen, Sami Zayn and Prince Devitt and is someone who would be the savior of the tag and Diva divisions. He is the guy to save us from Vince's out of touch vision of pro wrestling, not any other company.

Might be a bit of a conspiracy theory but I'm not even criticising them if it's true. It's just an observation and it would extremely clever of them if true .

 

[WimpyKid4Life]

There's no such thing as 'ICW'. WE are the WWE UNIVERSE!!! To answer your question, no we are NOT being fooled. Triple H himself has said many times that they listen to the voice of the WWE Universe and we make the product. When Daniel Bryan occupied Raw (the TRUE 'this is awesome' moment of the year), he saw how passionate the YES! Movement was and gave us what we wanted ( A WrestleMania match between The Game & our Bearded Hero)! Triple H also signed Hideo Itami to a contract, making a splash heard around the sports-entertainment world! Once again, there is no such thing as 'ICW'. The WWE has always been built around the WWE Universe and that is why it is the greatest experience one will ever feel in a lifetime. "We want Mizdow" has started a movement and now us Sandow fans, after months of frustrations, are watching him headlining pay-per-views as TAG TEAM CHAMPION!!! " "Ziggler!" "Ziggler" He went from being an afterthought to bringing down the MACHINE and headlining Title Matches week after week! Being a part of the WWE Universe is an experience I am proud to be a part of and the WWE is the best entertainment in the world!!!!

 

[Navi]

There's no such thing as 'ICW'. WE are the WWE UNIVERSE!!! To answer your question, no we are NOT being fooled. Triple H himself has said many times that they listen to the voice of the WWE Universe and we make the product. When Daniel Bryan occupied Raw (the TRUE 'this is awesome' moment of the year), he saw how passionate the YES! Movement was and gave us what we wanted ( A WrestleMania match between The Game & our Bearded Hero)! Triple H also signed Hideo Itami to a contract, making a splash heard around the sports-entertainment world! Once again, there is no such thing as 'ICW'. The WWE has always been built around the WWE Universe and that is why it is the greatest experience one will ever feel in a lifetime. "We want Mizdow" has started a movement and now us Sandow fans, after months of frustrations, are watching him headlining pay-per-views as TAG TEAM CHAMPION!!! " "Ziggler!" "Ziggler" He went from being an afterthought to bringing down the MACHINE and headlining Title Matches week after week! Being a part of the WWE Universe is an experience I am proud to be a part of and the WWE is the best entertainment in the world!!!!

You really have to take off your rose coloured glasses for awhile and see thing how they are. We are the IWC, which stands for Internet Wrestling Community, and since you post on these boards you are part of it.

The WWE does what it wants, it doesn't give a shit about the fans. Vince made that clear on the podcast. He said if the fans aren't behind the guy, he won't make it, but how many times has someone we don't like risen to the top.

Swagger and Sheamus had dismal title runs, why, because they weren't ready for it. Ziggler worked his ass off to get were he is and I really believe if it wasn't for the injuries to Bryan and Reigns he would still be IC champion.

I have no idea if we're being fooled. McMahon is pretty hard headed, and just the fact that NXT and the main roster are handled so differently tells me that maybe we aren't.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The WWE does what it wants, it doesn't give a shit about the fans. Vince made that clear on the podcast. He said if the fans aren't behind the guy, he won't make it, but how many times has someone we don't like risen to the top.

In the grand scheme of things, in all honesty, not a whole helluva lot when you think about it. There have been wrestlers who've been given opportunities who ultimately haven't really succeeded and, sometimes, that's just how the mop flops. Management can have faith in a guy and believed, based on what they know, what they see, hear, etc. that he can make good. However, sometimes the only way to know for certain is for a guy to get a push. Sometimes the fans embrace him, sometimes they don't, sometimes there are mistakes made in booking, sometimes the guy folds under the pressure, sometimes the push is killed because the guy gets heat backstage, sometimes injuries take place that results in others having to be pushed, sometimes a guy sustains multiple injuries within a relatively short time span and it gives management doubts as to whether they can physically handle the spot, etc. It's not an exact science as some guys thrive and some don't. Otherwise, they'd be able to roll out the next Rock, Stone Cold or Cena whenever they felt like it. I'm sure that there are some guys who could have made it but didn't get the opportunity for whatever reason; it's unfortunate but stuff like that happens all the time in just about every kind of business.

I have no idea if we're being fooled. McMahon is pretty hard headed, and just the fact that NXT and the main roster are handled so differently tells me that maybe we aren't.

That's pretty much how I look at it. At the end of the day, we rarely know exactly what's truth and what isn't because we're not there. We don't listen in on the staff meetings, we don't know the wrestlers themselves, we don't know management, etc. But, my instinct tells me that we're not being played all the time. As I said, there's no way to know for sure, but that's my gut feeling. And yes, the differences in booking in NXT and the main roster would suggest that Trips & Vince have pretty different visions and styles at this point in time. For instance, there are reports out that Trips wanted Charlotte to go over Natalya but Vince didn't. Trips is said to have understood the decision as he doubts anyone will remember Charlotte lost when she comes to the main roster permanently but that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees with it.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

This thread on the possible new blueprint for getting a guy over got me thinking, particularly this part



http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=5065067

It's an interesting theory because it basically makes marks of all of us because we think we're the ones getting Bryan, Ziggler, Punk etc. over in spite of Vince McMahon. It creates an Us vs Them where we team up with our chosen ones to take on Vince, Cena, Orton, Batista and whoever else. Seems plausible and would be a smart move from WWE to do it and is it turns WWE's competition inward. Instead of it being WWE v TNA, ROH, AAA, Lucha Underground & NJPW it becomes WWE v the IWC's WWE.

It is not new, it has just been enlarged due to the death of kayfabe, the increase in content, the drop to PG, safety concerns, social media, and unwillingness to take chances. The booking committee are the biggest heels in wrestling in 2014. If a heel is overly edgy, overly violent, overly corrupt, or overly creative in their general douchiness they get applauded by the smarks because they are entertaining. Otherwise, the only ways to get and stay over as a heel are to seem lazy (Orton), boring (Del Rio), or a fan of wrestling (Lesnar). That leaves the people in power as the only ones that can get faces over to the smark audience.

So I thought about it some more and realised that this is happening not just in the ring but also behind the curtain. How many times have we been told Triple H's vision of wrestling is NXT whilst Vince's is Raw? It's an idea that has become deeply ingrained in most of the IWC and I often see people longing for the day Triple H takes over from Vince fully.

But when you step back and think about it it seems a bit weird doesn't it? Triple H has been known to be the ultimate political mover in WWE history. He has served on the booking committee for over ten years, his wife was head of creative for most of that and really he has become an extension of Vince. He probably has the ear of Vince more than anyone else on the planet and so has a bit of clout with the guy.

But yet he is being presented as the IWC saviour of the main roster. The guy who is in touch with the audience and is just like all of us. A guy whose roster would be filled with the likes of Kevin Steen, Sami Zayn and Prince Devitt and is someone who would be the savior of the tag and Diva divisions. He is the guy to save us from Vince's out of touch vision of pro wrestling, not any other company.

Might be a bit of a conspiracy theory but I'm not even criticising them if it's true. It's just an observation and it would extremely clever of them if true .

No, HHH is running a show that is generally exclusive to the WWE Network. They have talent and a show that may appeal to those that otherwise don't like Raw's sports entertainment. If someone is a huge ROH mark and wants to keep up with Steen or Zayn or if they live in Japan and want to keep up with KENTA or if they are from the UK and want to keep up with Neville they have to pay $9.99 a month to do so (or steal it).

While HHH wouldn't put out the same Raw as Vince he is not going to completely change the show. Plus he is a huge heel right now. Are we really going to just accept him being some savior after cutting consistently long promos and giving us Corporate Kane week in and week out? Nevermind, the smarks will let the past disappear since they know it is fake.

Ask yourself, are we really supposed to believe Zayn needs more training in NXT or is he serving another purpose? As much as WWE sells NXT as the future, NXT is the brand split.

 

[stingray11214]

I think people need to realize that RAW/SmackDown and NXT serves two COMPLETELY different audiences. RAW and Smackdown are for the kids. The show is built around John Cena, and 90% of that crowd are there because of Cena: The kids that want to see him, and their parents they drag to the show. It has been that way since the middle years of Bob Backlund's run a Champ, when you started to see the kids at shows in droves. If you change RAW/SmackDown to a more adult product, you may get higher ratings, but the revenue will drop because the kids will not be there as much. If VKM drops dead tomorrow, Trips will probably keep the same type of show in place.

NXT plays to the wrestling fan, not the kids. If kids show up it is because their WRESTLING FAN PARENT drags THEM along. The booking is logical, and you have a real "old-school" feel. So "old-school" that there were times I was wondering why Barbara Clary was not coming out for her "Take 5" segment. NXT is just so much fun to watch, and you are left wondering that if Vince dies tomorrow, will Trips create WWE Territories.

 

[chuckmdubya]

This thread on the possible new blueprint for getting a guy over got me thinking, particularly this part



http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=5065067

It's an interesting theory because it basically makes marks of all of us because we think we're the ones getting Bryan, Ziggler, Punk etc. over in spite of Vince McMahon. It creates an Us vs Them where we team up with our chosen ones to take on Vince, Cena, Orton, Batista and whoever else. Seems plausible and would be a smart move from WWE to do it and is it turns WWE's competition inward. Instead of it being WWE v TNA, ROH, AAA, Lucha Underground & NJPW it becomes WWE v the IWC's WWE.

There are too many promotions out there right now, and one of them is bound to challenge WWE eventually. For the life of me I can't figure out why TNA isn't giving them more competition. I watch Impact every week too, and I think that the in ring product there is vastly superior to WWE's. The matches always have a clean winner and those guys sell their bodies out every week to put on a good show. When is the last time you saw a WWE Diva give or take a reverse neck breaker on the ring steps? When is the last time we saw the WWE title change hands on Raw? As a matter of fact, when was the last time we even saw the strap on Raw, 2-3 months ago? And soon GFW will be out on American TV. We know that Jeff Jarrett is a highly determined man, it is possible that GFW can give them a run too.

 

[stonecoldstunner]

Vince McMahon and the writers dont give a rats ass what the fans think - and thaaaaat's the bottom line!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Translate this to another product and none of it is rocket science...

Ice Cream started off with just normal, then came the "luxury" brands like Haagen-Daas, then Ben & Jerry's which was a little "cooler", more hip and aimed at true lovers of Ice Cream with it's outlandish combinations and chances to taste stuff you never had before... the same company might own and market a brand for each type...

They're banking on that you'll still go back occasionally for the basic cone or the luxury stuff occasionally, even if you're a die hard Phish Food fan. They have to listen to the customer, if it tastes like shit, then it is... it won't sell at all... but the trick is to find the median, make it exciting and popular enough that it sells and builds over time but doesn't destroy the basic product because once that's gone, you'll never get it back.

How WWE is trying to market isn't that much different. NXT is currently that hip/new/fresh product, it's different from the core product which is RAW and Smackdown and it's luxury content which is the PPV's... NXT could quickly become SO popular that it takes over... that would kill the whole wrestling business as we know it... but in it's place, as part of the package it's very valuable.

It's easy for WWE to paint Vince as the luddite, not wanting change cos he's old, out of touch and position Trips as the fresh thinker. It's what happened 30 years ago when Vince bought the company...his dad and his ilk were the ones in the past and Vince had the vision to take it further. 30 years on, it's not beyond the realms that Trips or even Shane might have a different vision... but we as fans won't decide what "flavour" WWE takes going forward. If Trips can prove consistantly that NXT works, that the talent can rise and sell without damaging the WWE as a whole then it'll go his way. If he can't then the core product will remain the focus, however popular NXT is with internet fans or purists.

Just as 30 years ago, the next "phase" is crucial... then it was financial pressure on Vince driving it, if Mania had failed, he was bankrupt... the business would have continued... now there is no one else out there... so if Trips "blows it" WWE is gone, so is wrestling...

Vince is being painted as that old safe "cone" style of guy, stick with vanilla, strawberry, the basic formua that works and has worked...cos those sell the most consistantly across all ages... If it then comes that the other ways of doing it like NXT do get over enough to carry the company, then it'd be foolish for him to be the face/claim credit... that's when Hunter takes over...after all, as Ben and Jerry get older you don't really see them on the ads any more... old isn't what they're about.

 

[laodaron]

This thread on the possible new blueprint for getting a guy over got me thinking, particularly this part



http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=5065067

It's an interesting theory because it basically makes marks of all of us because we think we're the ones getting Bryan, Ziggler, Punk etc. over in spite of Vince McMahon. It creates an Us vs Them where we team up with our chosen ones to take on Vince, Cena, Orton, Batista and whoever else. Seems plausible and would be a smart move from WWE to do it and is it turns WWE's competition inward. Instead of it being WWE v TNA, ROH, AAA, Lucha Underground & NJPW it becomes WWE v the IWC's WWE.

So I thought about it some more and realised that this is happening not just in the ring but also behind the curtain. How many times have we been told Triple H's vision of wrestling is NXT whilst Vince's is Raw? It's an idea that has become deeply ingrained in most of the IWC and I often see people longing for the day Triple H takes over from Vince fully.

But when you step back and think about it it seems a bit weird doesn't it? Triple H has been known to be the ultimate political mover in WWE history. He has served on the booking committee for over ten years, his wife was head of creative for most of that and really he has become an extension of Vince. He probably has the ear of Vince more than anyone else on the planet and so has a bit of clout with the guy.

But yet he is being presented as the IWC saviour of the main roster. The guy who is in touch with the audience and is just like all of us. A guy whose roster would be filled with the likes of Kevin Steen, Sami Zayn and Prince Devitt and is someone who would be the savior of the tag and Diva divisions. He is the guy to save us from Vince's out of touch vision of pro wrestling, not any other company.

Might be a bit of a conspiracy theory but I'm not even criticising them if it's true. It's just an observation and it would extremely clever of them if true .

I, as well as others, have always maintained that the WWE is a work, through and through. I have no doubt whatsoever that Vince prefers there to be a "future vision" at NXT, and it's completely within his creative mind to put it out the way that it is now. Sure, HHH runs NXT, but it's Vince's baby.

There's no such thing as 'ICW'. WE are the WWE UNIVERSE!!!

Sure there is. There's fans of wrestling that also have the internet (it's 2014, I personally don't know a single person that doesn't have the internet). And then there's the IWC, a very small but painfully vocal group of smarks that have a hard time understanding kayfabe, understanding what a work is, what a push is, what being buried is, etc. They scream and shout all over the internet complaining that their favorite guy isn't being pushed, or he's being buried, or once the guy is being pushed, they hate him because he's stale, and he needs a character change. Basically, the IWC is the equivalent of a room of 5 year olds with unlimited cable television, and there's only one clicker.

You really have to take off your rose coloured glasses for awhile and see thing how they are. We are the IWC, which stands for Internet Wrestling Community, and since you post on these boards you are part of it.

The WWE does what it wants, it doesn't give a shit about the fans. Vince made that clear on the podcast. He said if the fans aren't behind the guy, he won't make it, but how many times has someone we don't like risen to the top.

Swagger and Sheamus had dismal title runs, why, because they weren't ready for it. Ziggler worked his ass off to get were he is and I really believe if it wasn't for the injuries to Bryan and Reigns he would still be IC champion.

I have no idea if we're being fooled. McMahon is pretty hard headed, and just the fact that NXT and the main roster are handled so differently tells me that maybe we aren't.

No, I am not a part of the IWC. I have the internet, and I talk about wrestling on the internet, but I am not a part of the antisocial group "The IWC." Much like how posting on 4Chan doesn't make you a part of Anonymous.

Vince gives almost everyone their chance to win over the crowd. Most can't do it, or at least most can't handle it. Ziggler has failed more times than anyone else. But he keeps getting his shot. He's probably the most pushed guy on the roster. Sheamus and Swagger did just fine, they just didn't quite have the ability to get over either. None of that is Vince's fault, it's up to the performers to be able to give the performance.

Vince said on the podcast that he listens to the crowd. By listens to the crowd, he looks at his dollar signs. Sure, he makes errors in judgement, he's a human. But collectively, wrestling fans have to stop pretending that we understand how the system really works because there was a Raven shoot interview, and Kevin Nash gives shoots every Tuesday, and Jim Cornette is jaded.

 

[MCMG]

People still believe that some wrestlers get over without help from the WWE. Sure that's true to an extent but every guy who doesn't get a massive initial push has seemingly been buried. Punk was a two time World Champ before his pipebomb. Bryan one time before the Yes movement. Even Ziggler has two World Titles.

I still can't get this through my head. Daniel Bryan beat John Cena and Randy Orton clean on consecutive PPV's and somehow people think the WWE weren't behind him. Fucking hell...

I firmly believe Triple H knows what he is doing. Indeed, NXT, The Shield and The Wyatt Family are all probably him. God knows how any of those things would have turned out without his influence. Kevin Dunn, Vince and all the writers perhaps not but they do make some very good decisions. Hey look at Ziggler, you put him on TV every single week and let him have a decent contest they are hardly going to be shocked if he gets over. Don't complicate things with ridiculous conspiracy theories; sometimes, the WWE wait and get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. Isn't that, however, indicative of life?