Are things worse off than we thought?

[Navi]

This crossed my mind today and I thought I'd get other opinions on it. We've seen in the past couple of months ratings for RAW start to hit record lows. Now this can be attributed to a number of things, most likely the fact that we are seeing the same feuds over and over again and the injuries that have plagued the main event stars.

So what I was wondering is Vince keeps saying that ratings don't matter. I think though to the USA Network and their advertisers they do. So is that why we are seeing them split the brands now. Has it got to the point where they are going to throw everything against the wall in a last ditch effort to get the viewers back.

The thing that worries me the most is, if they don't do it right, like if they really screw this up, then they really have nothing else to fall back on. The WWE has made itself a global power in the world of sports entertainment. They basically have no competition, everyone else has fallen by the wayside, so they can't blame it on anyone but themselves if this goes south on them.

As a fan I hope it works out for them, but hearing that longtime wrestlers like Cody Rhodes, Ryback and Barrett are getting out and being very vocal about it, makes you think who else is next.

Thoughts?

 

[Inferno Prince]

First I think it's no coincidence that three guys who were vocal upon departure were guys that had floated in irrelevance for a while before leaving. I don't see the brand split as a last resort, as a matter of fact I see it as Vince feeling more confident in the talent of the company than he has in a while. I don't see this as a ratings grab either, the ratings have sunk because it's easier to watch a cut down version of RAW on the net later on than sit through it live.

To me this is about exposure of the talent, for the fans and for the sake of accruing more talent down the road. There's been concern about how all these breakout NXT stars are gonna make it on the main roster and now with things going back to unique storylines on both shows, there's more than enough room for them to be used, and that's gonna make free agents want to come to WWE more, knowing there's a better shot at consistent TV time coming out of NXT.

 

[Sean Valjean]

Here's part of my post from the Brand Split announcement thread:

Another reason this feel ill-planned is why would they release so many people recently knowing they'd soon need all the talent they can get? Primo and Epico can be repackaged for the umpteenth time, but Wade Barrett, Ryback, or Cody Rhodes can't be enticed to stick around with the promise of a bigger role due to an impending brand split? That's probably because they didn't have that promise ready because the idea was probably realized yesterday or something. Even though this is set to happen in less than two months. They could bolster the shows by raiding NXT again, but NXT is still recovering from the post-Wrestlemania exodus and can't take another one for a while. If they still care enough about NXT being its own viable promotion, that is.

This feels like sudden, ill-conceived attempt to fix sagging ratings as opposed to putting serious effort into the system they have now. All they have to do is book Raw smarter and make Smackdown actually matter. Those things can easily be accomplished without a brand split. I just hate how this is so soon and so sudden. There's little time to really prepare for something this big, but they're doing it anyway. Maybe they really have thought it all out, but the last several months of TV suggest otherwise

So yeah, I'm kind of with you, Navi. Vince is a notorious over-reactor. Given the sagging ratings and how ratings continue to slump, Brand Split 2.0 seems like Random Surprise Vince Idea #325 to improve viewership. It feels like a larger scale Million Dollar Mania.

I'm not particularly looking forward to the Brand Split because of this. I just don't trust WWE to have put as much thought into it as it needs. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It's possible I suppose but, at the same time, it also sounds like most conspiracy theories surrounding WWE.

The thing about the brand split is that there have been rumors going on for much of the year stating that it was coming back. The first I remember reading about it was back in February, so this doesn't come off to me as some sort of rushed, half baked attempt because there's so much that has to be organized. Furthermore, just because these reports started in February doesn't mean that the plans themselves hadn't been forming for a longer period of time.

When it comes to certain aspects of the behind the scenes stuff, namely the various corporate issues in WWE that have little to do with the creative aspect, there are so much that most of us probably don't understand or even know. As has been mentioned, Vince is notorious for overreacting whenever ratings have been going south, yet that hasn't really been the case in quite a while. A few years ago, if Raw had been drawing the sort of numbers it has on a regular basis with Reigns as champion, he'd have yanked the title off of him so fast it'd leave friction burns on Reigns' waist. WWE programming has frequently been the biggest draw for NBC Universal's cable networks and fewer people are watching television in the traditional manner. It's not just WWE programming that's been feeling that pinch, it's been affecting the TV industry as a whole as people are watching shows on their tablets, their laptops, or joining Netflix, Hulu, etc. One reason why SmackDown is going live, reportedly, is so USA can use it as a lead in show for one of their upcoming original series. IF there really is this big withdrawl from traditional television, I find it difficult to believe that Vince and the honchos at USA, or NBC Universal as a whole, haven't had serious discussions about it and how it's impacting viewership. If there was some sort of friction/concerns from NBC Universal regarding the TV ratings, I think it's something that would make the dirt sheets and would have for a while now. Various entertainment industry trade magazines would have heard of it, done stories on it, then the dirt sheets would've latched onto it themselves. NBC Unviersal is the world's largest media group and WWE programming has been a hallmark for NBC and it's affiliates for the better part of 30 years, so I'm of the opinion there'd be some significant buzz going around if WWE was being pressured to do whatever it could to jack up viewership.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

My guess is that this is coming from USA Network more than WWE. USA probably feels the need to make SD a live show and WWE probably wants to resplit their main TV show rosters to make more gate money, so there is your compromise.

Overall, it could be both a good and bad sign. USA probably asked WWE to go supershow with SD a ways back because they thought the superstars would bump the product. It has failed and now the solution is for SD to be live which seems to be a popular choice for advertising dollars.

So its hard to tell if this is a good or bad sign. If it works out it is obviously good. But it could be a final effort to make SD a valuable commodity for USA.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

This crossed my mind today and I thought I'd get other opinions on it. We've seen in the past couple of months ratings for RAW start to hit record lows. Now this can be attributed to a number of things, most likely the fact that we are seeing the same feuds over and over again and the injuries that have plagued the main event stars.

So what I was wondering is Vince keeps saying that ratings don't matter. I think though to the USA Network and their advertisers they do. So is that why we are seeing them split the brands now. Has it got to the point where they are going to throw everything against the wall in a last ditch effort to get the viewers back.

The thing that worries me the most is, if they don't do it right, like if they really screw this up, then they really have nothing else to fall back on. The WWE has made itself a global power in the world of sports entertainment. They basically have no competition, everyone else has fallen by the wayside, so they can't blame it on anyone but themselves if this goes south on them.

As a fan I hope it works out for them, but hearing that longtime wrestlers like Cody Rhodes, Ryback and Barrett are getting out and being very vocal about it, makes you think who else is next.

Thoughts?

Although I'm not a fan of the brand split happening in July, I'm happy they're trying to shake things up a little. Once all these injured stars start returning to the WWE and some big names start showing up from NXT (Joe, Nakamura, Finn, Roode, ect ect) then we can see some -must see t.v-.

WWE hasn't had much -must see t.v- moments in the longest time. Week after week of the same unhyped mstches will do that. They need more intriguing writing to make fans think after the show is over.

"Was he talking about Samoa Joe for next Mondays Raw?".

"Who attacked John Cena backstage? Find out more next week!".

"The masked assailant will reveal himself this coming Smackdown!"

"A 10 man elimation number one condenders match for the U.S title with several unknown competitors! This coming Monday on Raw!"

"Brock Lesnar open challenge next week on Raw!"

But they just don't do it enough IMO. Once the stars start coming together on the main roster then the ratings can climb. But I blame the boring writing right now. Its just the same, uneventful stuff that doesn't make a viewer want to watch it live.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

Honestly, not nearly enough is made of the different ways in which people consume to programmes these days. On demand, on line, on TV-R, on the Network if you are willing to wait a month - plenty of other ways to watch Raw and Smackdown. As annoying as it is to some, why do you think WWE keeps plugging Twitter and #1 trends? Because people don't just tweet live, if they wTch the show after the event, they still tweet about it. People make far too much about ratings when, the biggest fact is, WWE to is STILL amongst the highest rated programmes on tv. The time to worry would be if its ratings dropped whilst across the board, ratings rose; until that happens, advertisers, network executives and Vince will all stay happy

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Here the thing, I really think that vince doesn't care about ratings as much as he use to because right now he's getting a lot of money from nbc universal and the advertisers to aired his programming on usa. When the tv deal is done he will negociated a new deal and if he not able to get a new deal, he can still put raw and smackdown on the network which is a bigger priority for vince then pretty much anything else. I also think that this draft idea is vince's idea to explain why the will be a influx of nxt call up in july. So instead of producing package to introduce these talent or find a creative way to bring them in, they will just bring them cold through the draft and hope that the casual fans takes to them like they did with enzo & cass.

 

[Kizzani]

Just another clown who can't think about anything outside or the normal regurgitated internet bullcrap.

Let see if I can hip some of these clueless smarks to the reality of TV. California is one of the biggest states and right now thier are two teams from said state fighting and battling for thier respective championship. Unlike the WWE these sport don't generally see the same champion year after year. San Jose sharks chasing the Stanley Cup and The Golden State Warriors chasing NBA title, both play a huge role in what people watch on TV. I am one of those people and yes it annoys the hell out of my wife and kids who want to watch WWE. So like many we DVR raw and smackdown and watch them the next night. I amnsure plenty more are doing the same. Other reasons are certain service providers have dropped USA. There is nothing WWE can do about it or fix it.....unless they offer it on the network. Last time I cancelled it that was onenof the survey questions "would you come back if Raw and Smmackdown were available on the network". Yea I would.
Ratings dropped during attitude era also for WWE and WCW when the spurs and mavericks (Texas is big) were in the playoffs.
So when you take into count all the free streamings,the playoffs, DVR and Bit Torrents coupled with whiney fans who stop watching because they don't like the few months a guy they dislike holds a title then yea ratings will drop.
But hey if you're nothing watching for crybaby reasons you might miss the live version of some great matches....but thanks to the internet you can watch themmlater. But Rating don't add in social media, website hits, youtube or anything outside of cable ratings.

Oh but USA network cares....no, no they don't and why is it? Simple nothing else on the USA network even comes close.
http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/top10s.html

So no, it isn't nearly as bad as you want to believe. The word of the day is RESEARCH.....do some

 

[Trill Co$by]

Can WWE not release someone nowadays without people getting all worked up? So they dropped the announcement on a Wednesday, who the hell cares? You do realize that they have a bigger chance of reaching more people through Social Media outlets than they have by announcing it on a live episode of Raw, right? Ratings are slipping, a little bit more than WWE would like but also keep in mind that more people are switching to simple basic channels or DVRs, as well as using Hulu and other outlets to stream WWE products. There are even some obtaining them through piracy downloads. WWE is still popular ladies and gentlemen, don't think it's not.

This brand split has nothing to do with the very very few talent that has been released. In fact, it has more to do with the large influx of talent that's been pouring into their laps. Think about it, not only have they got AJ Styles, The Club, Vaudevillains, Enzo & Cass, Apollo Crews, Dana Brooke, and Baron Corbin debuting on the main roster but in NXT we've still got Carmella, Bayley, Nia Jax, Asuka, Finn Balor, American Alpha, The Revival, Samoa Joe, Hideo Itami, Nakamura, and so so much more talent that it would be stupid to not see that there's no way we'll get all of them the right exposure if Smackdown is being used to fill 1.5 hours of footage with Raw replays.

A brand split is needed because of everything that's going RIGHT in the WWE. Now, we're going to get more development of stars on both shows. We'll get to see people like Dean Ambrose, Bray Wyatt, and Dolph Ziggler attempt to regain their momentum while guys like Rollins, Reigns, and AJ Styles continue to develop. We'll get to see Brock Lesnar become a beast on one brand, while the WWE builds up their next big thing on another brand. The brand split is a great thing, and it's something that has been needed for a long long time.

 

[OYDK]

I've been hearing a lot of people say that the Brand Split seems as if it was thrown together within the last few weeks and I don't think that's the case. I'd wager a good amount of money that this has been the plan since before WWE announced Smackdown's move to USA, I remember reading multiple reports a while back stating that USA was pressuring WWE to get SD's numbers up as they were not going to be happy with its current rating on their programming. It would also explain why WWE has been cherry-picking the top talents around the world, especially within the last year, and moving a ton of people up from NXT since the night after Mania. I agree that the timing is a little off, but I have a very strong feeling that's because the injuries ultimately put this announcement on hold. It's not a coincidence that this announcement coincides with the returns of Seth Rollins and John Cena.

As JH said, we've been hearing rumblings about a brand split for a while now, I specifically remember going at it with FTS about the topic months back (If he's reading this...I was right by the way...). So to answer the question, I don't think things are worse off than even we think, I just think plans got put on hold.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Here the thing, I really think that vince doesn't care about ratings as much as he use to because right now he's getting a lot of money from nbc universal and the advertisers to aired his programming on usa. When the tv deal is done he will negociated a new deal and if he not able to get a new deal, he can still put raw and smackdown on the network which is a bigger priority for vince then pretty much anything else. I also think that this draft idea is vince's idea to explain why the will be a influx of nxt call up in july. So instead of producing package to introduce these talent or find a creative way to bring them in, they will just bring them cold through the draft and hope that the casual fans takes to them like they did with enzo & cass.

If they were going to bring up a lot of NXT talent in July, then why not do another "Invasion" angle?

What I mean is, have a bunch of NXT folk invade Raw, and try to take over. Other NXT talent already on the roster can join Team WWE or Team NXT.

Triple H can run Team NXT and Vince or Shane run Team NXT.

This type of invasion angle would work better than last time, because, since all the NXT talent are available to WWE, they can bring up who would make the most impact and make this a great angle.

It would also freshen up the product, as you would have NXT talent v established WWE talent for a few months, until the feud is over, and then do a brand extension.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

If they were going to bring up a lot of NXT talent in July, then why not do another "Invasion" angle?

What I mean is, have a bunch of NXT folk invade Raw, and try to take over. Other NXT talent already on the roster can join Team WWE or Team NXT.

Triple H can run Team NXT and Vince or Shane run Team NXT.

This type of invasion angle would work better than last time, because, since all the NXT talent are available to WWE, they can bring up who would make the most impact and make this a great angle.

It would also freshen up the product, as you would have NXT talent v established WWE talent for a few months, until the feud is over, and then do a brand extension.

That's a good idea but you talking about vince mcmahon here. The guy isn't the biggest fan of nxt since it's not his idea, it's hhh's idea. So he doesn't understand that not everybody in the wwe universe actually watch nxt and they need to introduce them properly. An ivasion angle wouldn't work for that exact reason because not everybody is familiar with the nxt guys. For every kevin owens or enzo & cass there's a baron corbin or appollo crews. They're more nxt guys that haven't gotten over because of how the got introduce, so introducing them in an invasion angle with be a disaster for mos of those guys because they would look like midcarders compare to the wwe superstars.

 

[Xemmy]

While this move gives me a little hope, it does seem like an act of desperation. Not that they're THAT desperate. But it seems like just a chimmed of solution that they're trying to throw it all together on the fly. And I don't think it's going to give us what we want. I don't think we'll get a Smackdown Six or anything like that. But it's change. And change is needed. So. Here's to hope.

 

[whoopin' ass]

People keep saying it but ratings do matter because that is how network decide who to support. Look at TNA - chances are if they were pulling in 2+, Spike wouldn't have let them leave because they could then justify paying for them since they pull in the viewers. wwe isn't any different. Look at their last tv contract - far less than they were expecting because their numbers are low. And to be blunt, the wwe network can't sustain wwe by itself. If all wwe programming was only on there, they wouldn't survive. So in the end ratings do matter which is why it is so funny that people see recent events as improvements when really they are just gimmicks to get those ratings bumps. Shane returning really doesn't do anything storyline wise - we have seen these power struggles before and the way wwe has handled it isn't anything new or exciting(or even logical). Yet people tuned in a little because of that. The roster split is the same thing. They just reunited the roster and merged the world titles a few years ago and until it was announced, there was 0 talk of the split so why do it? Because it will grab attention. In 6 months, it won't matter because Cena will be on top of one brand and Reigns on top of the other but inbetween, people might tune in and those ratings might go up a little.

In the end, the ratings do still make a difference as long as you are on a network. Johnny Cash was dropped from his label after 30 years on it, you really think USA is going to keep wwe out of loyalty if thier ratings keep dropping? Instead of working out a good storyline and building it up to regain the audience, wwe is going to quick gimmicks to make those numbers jump. Nothing has changed so I agree, things are as bad as they have ever been.

 

[BringThePain834]

I think things are incredibly bad now, and the fact that Vince probably doesn't realize what he has done only makes it worse.

According to PWInsider, things aren’t good these days between Vince McMahon and The Undertaker. PWInsider has been informed that Vince has reached out to The Undertaker about appearing at SummerSlam but isn’t getting a response. It has also come to PWInsider’s attention that The Undertaker has told those close to him that he doesn’t plan on wrestling again after Vince supposedly asked him to lose to Shane McMahon at WrestleMania 32. He refused to do it and is currently not interested in making any further appearances, which possibly explains why he was advertised for a few dates, pulled from most, and then pulled completely from the European Tour.

PWInsider also noted that Vince is trying to find a way to smooth things over, but The Undertaker is ignoring him. His current contract with WWE only requires him to wrestle once a year to receive his downside guarantee so he will be paid for the rest of the year regardless of anything. If he decides not to compete next year, his contract will freeze similarly to Daniel Bryan. The idea is that since he is not working with WWE, they have the right to freeze his deal so that they can use him when something opens up, but it's clear that The Undertaker has the "I'm not coming back" mindset.

You see that? Jesus fucking Christ. The burned bridge that no one expected to happen has happened. It actually got to this point where WWE is actually this bad with their employees. Vince has managed to piss off probably the most loyal guy who ever worked for him. He didn't run off to do television, go film a few movies, MMA, go to WCW or TNA, none of that. And Vince's inconsiderate, senile, out of touch, sorry old ass has finally managed to piss him off and caused that bridge to burn. Well done, Vince, well done.

 

[rmp0012002]

Right now Vince doesn't care about ratings as he makes most of his money from live shows,merchandise, stock shares and Universal but it does to USA. People right now not watching hurts USA since they make their money from advertising sponsors and if that money isn't coming they put the screws to the show not bringing in sponsors. The fear of being pulled is the only thing that would make Vince care about ratings.

 

[spaldoni]

I'm really loving the WWE right now. I mean the world title picture has been fresh with Reigns vs AJ and now the return of Rollins makes it even more intriguing. The women's division is exciting and full of talent. The tag team division hasn't been this stacked since the late 80s. The IC title picture has produced some of the best matches of the year and Rusev winning the US title was a great move because he does a great job of putting the title over. The brand split is going to be awesome. Two live shows with different rosters means more opportunity for the wrestlers. The WWE is at it's best right now. It has a good mix of veterans and a ton of new talent. Hats off to Vince, Steph, Shane, HHH and all involved because the WWE has been on fire since Mania 32. Its a great time to be a fan.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

who. cares. about. ratings.

Seriously. Cable is dying. So basically, you are basing WWE's success on a metric that measures usage in a dying medium (dying especially quick with millenials).

I get that it still matters to an extent. However, you can't compare 2016 to even 2015. The landscape is changing that quickly. You wouldn't compare Twitter mentions in 2006 to 2016 would you? No? So why would you compare ratings?

Look at where WWE is RANKED. Not the actual rating number itself. Look at Hulu views. Look at Twitter mentions. Look at Network subscribers. Look at revenue. Christ.

I think things are incredibly bad now, and the fact that Vince probably doesn't realize what he has done only makes it worse.



You see that? Jesus fucking Christ. The burned bridge that no one expected to happen has happened. It actually got to this point where WWE is actually this bad with their employees. Vince has managed to piss off probably the most loyal guy who ever worked for him. He didn't run off to do television, go film a few movies, MMA, go to WCW or TNA, none of that. And Vince's inconsiderate, senile, out of touch, sorry old ass has finally managed to piss him off and caused that bridge to burn. Well done, Vince, well done.

And the last time the dirt sheets had a verifiably correct story was....?

Dirt sheets never get anything right. They say a bunch of shit that can't be proven, occasionally their guesses are right. WWE is a publicly traded company. You can look up their shit.

Stock price is right where it's alway hovered. $77,000,000.00 EBITDA. $1.3B in market cap. It's a healthy company.

People keep saying it but ratings do matter because that is how network decide who to support. Look at TNA - chances are if they were pulling in 2+, Spike wouldn't have let them leave because they could then justify paying for them since they pull in the viewers. wwe isn't any different. Look at their last tv contract - far less than they were expecting because their numbers are low. And to be blunt, the wwe network can't sustain wwe by itself. If all wwe programming was only on there, they wouldn't survive. So in the end ratings do matter which is why it is so funny that people see recent events as improvements when really they are just gimmicks to get those ratings bumps. Shane returning really doesn't do anything storyline wise - we have seen these power struggles before and the way wwe has handled it isn't anything new or exciting(or even logical). Yet people tuned in a little because of that. The roster split is the same thing. They just reunited the roster and merged the world titles a few years ago and until it was announced, there was 0 talk of the split so why do it? Because it will grab attention. In 6 months, it won't matter because Cena will be on top of one brand and Reigns on top of the other but inbetween, people might tune in and those ratings might go up a little.

In the end, the ratings do still make a difference as long as you are on a network. Johnny Cash was dropped from his label after 30 years on it, you really think USA is going to keep wwe out of loyalty if thier ratings keep dropping? Instead of working out a good storyline and building it up to regain the audience, wwe is going to quick gimmicks to make those numbers jump. Nothing has changed so I agree, things are as bad as they have ever been.

Except that you're looking at raw numbers. Cable in general is dying at something like 15% a year. If WWE was so poor for USA, then why would they have just okayed Smackdown live on Tuesdays? The top rated cable show (as in, whoever is in the number 1 slot, not a particular show) has gone down drastically. It doesn't matter who it is, ALL cable numbers are down because cable sucks. I haven't owned cable in 4 years, yet I watch WWE on the network and Hulu.

Raw is STILL a top 5 show. That's against a very anticipated NBA playoffs game.

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articl...cable-originals-network-finals-5-23-2016.html

You see the number 1 program? It's still getting sub 3s. The industry has changed. You non business savvy people think a top rated show should be getting 7s. It's not 1999 anymore. The industry has changed.