Are there any credible villains right now?

[MartialHorror]

My rage directed at Survivor Series still hasn't burned out, so I must go on another rant. All of the villains in the Main Roster have been presented as weak.

Rusev lost to Ziggler, who was defeated quickly by Tyler Breeze.

Stardust- who admittedly has only been built up to lose to someone quasi-meaningful- had his entire team decimated with shocking ease.

Bray Wyatt and his Family got their asses kicked by a couple of old dudes...Remember how Undertaker/Lesnar was competitive? Remember how even Undertaker/Bray during Wrestlemania was competitive? Bray was pwned so epic'lly that I can no longer take him seriously. He's all talk and he's not even smart, as he chose Jobber Luke Harper over his ultimate weapon. The character is done. He didn't have to defeat Taker- although that would've been preferable if he is to have any kind of push- but at least look like a threat.

King Barrett always loses.

New Day lost 2 members, a full tag team worth, in their match. Annoyingly, the Uso's and Lucha Dragons each lost a member, so neither team could say they were dominant.

Kevin Owens lost to Ambrose, who doesn't win many high profile matches and doesn't feel like he belongs in the World Title scene. I like the guy, but booking has not been kind to him over the past year. Ambrose went on to lose to Reigns in less than 10 minutes.

The Miz has become a joke. Has he even won a match since defeating Sandow?

Sheamus, our WHC, got pinned by Ryback. I would've said this was fine, except Ryback was practically squashed in his last PPV match...against Owens, who would lose to Ambrose, who would lose to Reigns in under 10 minutes. He also got beaten by Kalisto, who was beaten by del Rio, who was beaten by Reigns. Let's face it, Sheamus hasn't been booked much better than Ambrose since winning the contract.

The only villain who has been presented as an actual threat is Alberto del Rio. As fan reaction has been minimal, I don't see this lasting very long. You can argue that Braun would be here as well, but His toughness is undermined by him being Bray's man-slave. Oh yeah, Tyler Breeze. Does anyone think he even has a chance on the main roster? He beat Ziggler, but so has everyone. Fandango 2.0! WWE seems to prefer heels over faces when it comes to title reigns, presumably because Vince loves the 'triumphant underdog' story. But when the heels aren't strong enough, the entire idea is wasted and the suspense is diminished.

Roman Reigns turning heel would've fixed this...to an extent...as he has always been presented as strong. A Cena heel turn would be even better, although it will never happen. But these wouldn't be necessary if the others heels were credible opponents.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

In another scenario , if the WWE really, really wanted a Heel as champion , they would've had Kevin Owens win the title at Survivor Series. Everyone predicted an Ambrose vs Reigns final and Roman winning it all...Kevin Owens winning it by cheating in both matches would've propelled Owens as a Heel in the company and turned him into an even bigger star. Kevin Owens is heel right to the bone so it's not like he couldn't handle the top stop in the company with his character. That also saves an Ambrose vs Reigns encounter for a future match. Or even a heel turn where Ambrose helps Owens beat Roman ....then a long crazy explanation on why he did it the next night on RAW. They could even bill a triple threat for TLC with Owens vs Ambrose vs Roman afterwards.

 

[Cena Is A Punk Rocker]

The way creative is booking these days, nobody on the roster right now is credible. No one. I'm not counting people out with injury or part timers.

 

[Really?]

Kevin Owens is the best pure heel that the WWE has right now. Everything he does is calculated and done in a way that when people notice it, they see it as smarmy. The thing is that it is very subtle. If you know to look you'll see the nuances. There is very overt stuff but it is the stuff that is subtle that makes him the best.

As for the WWE wanting a heel as champ, you seem to be missing the point. Seamus is not champ because they 'want' a heel, he is champ because they needed to get the MiTB briefcase out of the way. They did not want Sheamus to lose with the case, and they did not want to take the title off Reigns in anyway other than a screwy finish. The WWE is in a down time right now, as it always is at this time of year. Kill a bunch of birds with one stone. Seamus can have a token run, Reigns gets sympathy for getting screwed, the briefcase is out of play, and Reigns can win the title back and have a run towards Mania.

 

[Shotaro]

My rage directed at Survivor Series still hasn't burned out, so I must go on another rant. All of the villains in the Main Roster have been presented as weak.

Rusev lost to Ziggler, who was defeated quickly by Tyler Breeze.

Stardust- who admittedly has only been built up to lose to someone quasi-meaningful- had his entire team decimated with shocking ease.

Bray Wyatt and his Family got their asses kicked by a couple of old dudes...Remember how Undertaker/Lesnar was competitive? Remember how even Undertaker/Bray during Wrestlemania was competitive? Bray was pwned so epic'lly that I can no longer take him seriously. He's all talk and he's not even smart, as he chose Jobber Luke Harper over his ultimate weapon. The character is done. He didn't have to defeat Taker- although that would've been preferable if he is to have any kind of push- but at least look like a threat.

King Barrett always loses.

New Day lost 2 members, a full tag team worth, in their match. Annoyingly, the Uso's and Lucha Dragons each lost a member, so neither team could say they were dominant.

Kevin Owens lost to Ambrose, who doesn't win many high profile matches and doesn't feel like he belongs in the World Title scene. I like the guy, but booking has not been kind to him over the past year. Ambrose went on to lose to Reigns in less than 10 minutes.

The Miz has become a joke. Has he even won a match since defeating Sandow?

Sheamus, our WHC, got pinned by Ryback. I would've said this was fine, except Ryback was practically squashed in his last PPV match...against Owens, who would lose to Ambrose, who would lose to Reigns in under 10 minutes. He also got beaten by Kalisto, who was beaten by del Rio, who was beaten by Reigns. Let's face it, Sheamus hasn't been booked much better than Ambrose since winning the contract.

The only villain who has been presented as an actual threat is Alberto del Rio. As fan reaction has been minimal, I don't see this lasting very long. You can argue that Braun would be here as well, but His toughness is undermined by him being Bray's man-slave. Oh yeah, Tyler Breeze. Does anyone think he even has a chance on the main roster? He beat Ziggler, but so has everyone. Fandango 2.0! WWE seems to prefer heels over faces when it comes to title reigns, presumably because Vince loves the 'triumphant underdog' story. But when the heels aren't strong enough, the entire idea is wasted and the suspense is diminished.

Roman Reigns turning heel would've fixed this...to an extent...as he has always been presented as strong. A Cena heel turn would be even better, although it will never happen. But these wouldn't be necessary if the others heels were credible opponents.

So essentially what you're saying is that all of the heels have lost recently and therefore have no credibility. Look at who they lost to. Rusev lost his winning streak to Cena, then ultimately lost to Ziggler - he faced two pretty high up faces. He's a mid-card heel, that's what he does.

Stardust was never credible, he isn't supposed to be. He's the freakshow act.

Wyatt losing was silly but what made Wyatt himself look weak? No-one kicked out of Sister Abigail, he took a Chokeslam and a Tombstone and still didn't take the pin. People are acting like Undertaker decapitated him in the middle of the ring. It's his goddamn victory tour, I'd expect Wyatt to seek revenge and succeed this time.

You're honestly saying New Day lost credibility because two of them were eliminated in a survivor series match? You do know that they usually have a sole survivor right? I mean it's not like Shawn Micheals was on the losing side in a sweep at Survivor Series, say in 1990 or something?

Owens lost to the #2 face in the company - I mean seriously, that's like saying The Rock wasn't a credible heel because he lost the World Title to Mankind.

I do agree that they've wasted The Miz, he main-evented wrestlemania one year and had proper heat. Now he's lucky to get on Superstars.

I was going to write a lengthier reply to this but it boils down in essence to the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. Razor Ramon (aka Scott Hall) jobbed to the 1-2-3 Kid not THAT long before he became the hottest guy in wrestling on WCW. Old losses mean approximately nothing if the storyline is good and the booking makes sense. Your logic basically boils down to anyone who's ever lost to anyone who's ever lost to anyone who's ever lost to Chris Jericho is literally worse at fighting than Fandango.

 

[Checkmate]

There are 4 names that came to mind before I opened this thread:

- Sheamus: He's the champ. Sure, he lost last night, but that was in a 3 on 1 scenario. Even John Cena has lost in similar situations. Is he credible? Somewhat. He's a multi-time champion and has victories over big names in relatively big matches. Granted, in the "what has he done for me lately?" game, Sheamus is a bit weak. But, he is an upper mid card heel at the very least.

- Kevin Owens: The con for Owens is he's new. He hasn't main evented anything. He lost to Ambrose, sure, but Ambrose has challenged for the WWE title before. In the eyes of fans, Owens is a big deal. He holds a clean victory over John Cena, something very few guys do, and this is something he reminds people of every week. So, there is always a chance Kevin Owens will win a match against just about anybody. That's credibility right there.

- Alberto Del Rio: I'm not a fan, but he's decorated in similar vein to Sheamus. Won the Royal Rumble, won multiple titles, main evented PPVs, etc. That being said, his gimmick right now is atrocious, and he's booked like a glorified mid carder. Credibility is weak, and borderline nostalgia, but it's there.

- Bray Wyatt: What has he done for anyone, ever? Not much. But all it takes for Wyatt to become super relevant is one night and one angle. He's got a stable that can believably be put over most guys. And I know he's taken a ton of losses all over the place, but this is the WWE. CM Punk used to lose all the time, but then jumped into the main event and won consistently for over a year. Things can change.

 

[ShinChan]

I think Kevin Owens & Alberto Del Rio are only the credible heels left..... Although WWE is dexreasing their credibilty by stale booking, still they have a heel persona not good but par...

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

There aren't any credible heroes either. Cena, Lesnar and Brayn are all not around. Lesnar will never be full time, and Bryan is probably damaged permanantly. As it stands there's absolutely no one else.

This is what happens when you book everyone in the midcard at a .500 record. They need to commit to certain people, and I don't even care who at this point. You have a lot of guys with some upside, pick a few and commit to them. That means putting them over people and not worrying about protecting everybody. Kevin Owens has show that he can be a credible heel, why not commit to him, especially in a situation where your top heel is on the shelf. Roman Reigns would be a believable heel too if he were to turn. Finn Balor has some mystique to him and a unique character with the whole demon schtick, so he's a guy that could be a credible babyface when called up, but they need to avoid booking him like a generic midcarder.

John Cena is John Cena because the company ran with him and put him over relentlessly as a big match performer. You're never going to create another Cena unless you do the same thing. Certain guys need to be positioned above everyone else.

 

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

I agree with majority. Kevin Owens is their top heel by far. But I'll add something. I don't thinkj he's been booked bad at all. He's the current IC champion. He's a former united states champion. Beat the face of the company john cena in his debut match and looks strong every week.

Del Rio gets major heat but its the anti-american heat.

 

[Prince Vee]

My rage directed at Survivor Series still hasn't burned out, so I must go on another rant. All of the villains in the Main Roster have been presented as weak.

Rusev lost to Ziggler, who was defeated quickly by Tyler Breeze.

Stardust- who admittedly has only been built up to lose to someone quasi-meaningful- had his entire team decimated with shocking ease.

Bray Wyatt and his Family got their asses kicked by a couple of old dudes...Remember how Undertaker/Lesnar was competitive? Remember how even Undertaker/Bray during Wrestlemania was competitive? Bray was pwned so epic'lly that I can no longer take him seriously. He's all talk and he's not even smart, as he chose Jobber Luke Harper over his ultimate weapon. The character is done. He didn't have to defeat Taker- although that would've been preferable if he is to have any kind of push- but at least look like a threat.

King Barrett always loses.

New Day lost 2 members, a full tag team worth, in their match. Annoyingly, the Uso's and Lucha Dragons each lost a member, so neither team could say they were dominant.

Kevin Owens lost to Ambrose, who doesn't win many high profile matches and doesn't feel like he belongs in the World Title scene. I like the guy, but booking has not been kind to him over the past year. Ambrose went on to lose to Reigns in less than 10 minutes.

The Miz has become a joke. Has he even won a match since defeating Sandow?

Sheamus, our WHC, got pinned by Ryback. I would've said this was fine, except Ryback was practically squashed in his last PPV match...against Owens, who would lose to Ambrose, who would lose to Reigns in under 10 minutes. He also got beaten by Kalisto, who was beaten by del Rio, who was beaten by Reigns. Let's face it, Sheamus hasn't been booked much better than Ambrose since winning the contract.

The only villain who has been presented as an actual threat is Alberto del Rio. As fan reaction has been minimal, I don't see this lasting very long. You can argue that Braun would be here as well, but His toughness is undermined by him being Bray's man-slave. Oh yeah, Tyler Breeze. Does anyone think he even has a chance on the main roster? He beat Ziggler, but so has everyone. Fandango 2.0! WWE seems to prefer heels over faces when it comes to title reigns, presumably because Vince loves the 'triumphant underdog' story. But when the heels aren't strong enough, the entire idea is wasted and the suspense is diminished.

Roman Reigns turning heel would've fixed this...to an extent...as he has always been presented as strong. A Cena heel turn would be even better, although it will never happen. But these wouldn't be necessary if the others heels were credible opponents.

Brilliant thread to start with. It's been really a problem in WWE right now. They lack the star power both in the Faces and Heels section and as far as Heels are concerned, things are going wayward. I agree to a point that "At the End of the day, heroes always win" But that doesn't mean a villain can't win a match clean.

Whomsoever, the villains in WWE always wins in a dirty way. Kevin Owens won clean over John Cena fuck yeah, but he racked the eyes of Ryback to win a MIDCARD title? Asinine.

I'm a huge fan of Wade Barrett. I admire his work in the ring, but when I saw him on the Survivor Series Elimination match my first thought was, "AH man, so it's Barrett who's going to get eliminated first"

They need to build up Villains, as such as Kevin Owens with that talent he can take on the entire roster. But I don't want that to happen, Make him the big time player who can beat the faces clean and square. Keep him as the Cocky Son of B!

These are the few reasons why WWE is losing the ratings these days...

 

[MartialHorror]

So essentially what you're saying is that all of the heels have lost recently and therefore have no credibility. Look at who they lost to. Rusev lost his winning streak to Cena, then ultimately lost to Ziggler - he faced two pretty high up faces. He's a mid-card heel, that's what he does.

Stardust was never credible, he isn't supposed to be. He's the freakshow act.

Wyatt losing was silly but what made Wyatt himself look weak? No-one kicked out of Sister Abigail, he took a Chokeslam and a Tombstone and still didn't take the pin. People are acting like Undertaker decapitated him in the middle of the ring. It's his goddamn victory tour, I'd expect Wyatt to seek revenge and succeed this time.

You're honestly saying New Day lost credibility because two of them were eliminated in a survivor series match? You do know that they usually have a sole survivor right? I mean it's not like Shawn Micheals was on the losing side in a sweep at Survivor Series, say in 1990 or something?

Owens lost to the #2 face in the company - I mean seriously, that's like saying The Rock wasn't a credible heel because he lost the World Title to Mankind.

I do agree that they've wasted The Miz, he main-evented wrestlemania one year and had proper heat. Now he's lucky to get on Superstars.

I was going to write a lengthier reply to this but it boils down in essence to the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. Razor Ramon (aka Scott Hall) jobbed to the 1-2-3 Kid not THAT long before he became the hottest guy in wrestling on WCW. Old losses mean approximately nothing if the storyline is good and the booking makes sense. Your logic basically boils down to anyone who's ever lost to anyone who's ever lost to anyone who's ever lost to Chris Jericho is literally worse at fighting than Fandango.

My problem, dear Shotaro, is that WWE has no long term strategy. Every time someone starts to build momentum, WWE will do something to stop it. You point out that these guys are in the mid card, but isn't that kind of the problem? Everyone is in the midcard. Early 2014, there were plenty of people who seemed like they were just below a championship opportunity because they had been booked as strong and relevant- even Sheamus. Hell, even 2015 had a larger group of people who are ready for that little push than there are now- and I'm not referring to the amount of injuries.

Undertaker and Kane dominated the Wyatts throughout their match. As I said, I'm fine with the Brothers of Destruction winning. I just expected a more competitive bout. This kind of reminded me of when Bray Wyatt got his ass handed to him by Cena (shortly after the infamous Lesnar match). That was the beginning of a downfall for Wyatt and he never quite recovered. Back then, he got a lot louder reactions than he would early 2015. They did start building him back up by having him go over guys like Ambrose and Jericho, but then lost it to Undertaker. He then was conquered by Roman Reigns. And now badly pwned by Undertaker (and Kane) again. This cements him as someone who is not strong enough to compete with the big boys. Maybe they will try to build him up once more, but for me, Bray has had too many chances. He's supposed to be scary, but he's being booked like the Big Show. He'll beat irrelevant people, but be used to put the important performers over.

Admittedly my New Day claim was a little flimsy, but I wouldn't have minded if either the Uso's or Lucha's kept their team intact- because that would set up a good feud. As it was, I felt everyone losing a member without being defeated meant no one benefited.

Your logic is also flawed because Razor Ramon jobbed to 123 Kid in the WWF. If he had remained in the WWF, he likely would've been a lifelong midcarder. WCW is another company entirely. If Dolph Ziggler went to TNA, they'd probably make him one of their top stars. The Jericho-Fandango comparison doesn't work because I have no problem with these kinds of losses over a longer period of time. Every example I listed has happened within the past 2 weeks, with most of them taking place on Survivor Series night. If after defeating Chris Jericho, Fandango was jobbing within a 2 week period, then I'd have the same problem. I wasn't watching wrestling back then, so I don't know when Fandango fell.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

There aren't any credible heroes either. Cena, Lesnar and Brayn are all not around. Lesnar will never be full time, and Bryan is probably damaged permanantly. As it stands there's absolutely no one else.

This is what happens when you book everyone in the midcard at a .500 record. They need to commit to certain people, and I don't even care who at this point. You have a lot of guys with some upside, pick a few and commit to them. That means putting them over people and not worrying about protecting everybody. Kevin Owens has show that he can be a credible heel, why not commit to him, especially in a situation where your top heel is on the shelf. Roman Reigns would be a believable heel too if he were to turn. Finn Balor has some mystique to him and a unique character with the whole demon schtick, so he's a guy that could be a credible babyface when called up, but they need to avoid booking him like a generic midcarder.

John Cena is John Cena because the company ran with him and put him over relentlessly as a big match performer. You're never going to create another Cena unless you do the same thing. Certain guys need to be positioned above everyone else.

Oh but then you'll get 500 threads on how they're being shoved down our throats. Even if it's IWC favorites like Cesaro, Owens, etc. It happens damn near 100% of the time. It's also a prime reason I would love to to watch the IWC book a wrestling promotion. Most hilarious train wreck ever.