Are Dixie and Creative Idiots?

[IT Factor]

People like to refer to Hogan or Bischoff as a cancer that was growing on TNA. I'd hate to think what that makes Dixie Carter.....

 

[BigBombB]

Fenris, I just want to address your comment on AJ Styles really quickly...

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/474...motion-for-new-japans-return-to-north-america

Just because TNA never valued or knew how to use one of the top athletes in the modern era doesn't mean that every other company in the world doesn't recognize his value. The only reason WWE doesn't want him is because they already have Bryan, they already had CM Punk, they already have talent that play similar roles and they are big on making sure there is no overlap so as not to distract fans from the people they are already buying into.

As for the topic at hand, TNA's biggest problem is marketing. They don't know how to market themselves, they don't know how to pick the best talents to put all of their efforts behind, they don't know how to use their stars to get over their new stars, they think that simply winning or losing matches makes the difference between getting over or not. They don't understand how to sell their product so there is no focus and everyone gets lost in the shuffle.

A few things they are doing right...Angle feuding with EC3...EC3 is a guy who gets it, he gets how to self promote, he gets that he has to sell his character, he gets that the little details make the man, and no one is more deserving in TNA of one of Angle's last feuds in TNA than the former Derrick Bateman. If the plan was to put the belt on Samoa Joe prior to his concussion then that was a good direction too. Bully Ray is still making gold out of dog shit and him putting Dixie through a table would be a big PPV level moment. The problem is that everything else is such a jumbled mess that the good parts don't shine.

 

[Starkist]

People like to refer to Hogan or Bischoff as a cancer that was growing on TNA. I'd hate to think what that makes Dixie Carter.....

I guess Dixie was the Tumor that brought in the cancer. The cancer being Hogan and Bischoff.

All TNA needs to do is just not do what WWE is doing. In fact, maybe try the complete opposite of what the E is doing. Focus on wrestling, having quality matches an get into a better wrestling city. If they could find a better home, that might be what is best for business.

Creative copying WWE is not creative at all. They should refocus of trying to be creative.

 

[IT Factor]

I guess Dixie was the Tumor that brought in the cancer. The cancer being Hogan and Bischoff.

All TNA needs to do is just not do what WWE is doing. In fact, maybe try the complete opposite of what the E is doing. Focus on wrestling, having quality matches an get into a better wrestling city. If they could find a better home, that might be what is best for business.

Creative copying WWE is not creative at all. They should refocus of trying to be creative.

I have been saying the same thing forever! WWE is doing entertainment overkill and TNA should be focusing on being the polar opposite. They should be utilizing the amazing roster they have and make it all about WRESTLING. I know, to WWE that is a dirty word. But TNA should be taking advantage of the lack of wrestling in the E and also making their shows realistically edgy since WWE is limited by the PG confines. In short, TNA needs an identity all their own.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I have been saying the same thing forever! WWE is doing entertainment overkill and TNA should be focusing on being the polar opposite. They should be utilizing the amazing roster they have and make it all about WRESTLING. I know, to WWE that is a dirty word. But TNA should be taking advantage of the lack of wrestling in the E and also making their shows realistically edgy since WWE is limited by the PG confines. In short, TNA needs an identity all their own.

Why though? Why should they be focused on being all about WRESTLING? Just because WWE's not doing it? I don't get it. Why do you think that something different from the WWE will draw people in? Do you honestly think millions of people are sitting around at home NOT watching wrestling because WWE is more about entertainment than the actual physicality in the ring?

No, dude! They don't watch it because it's just bad. The storylines are cheesy, the characters are cheesy, the acting has ALWAYS been sub-par and the whole thing about wrestling is that it has a lot of stigma around it. We love it because ... well we know why we love it. We ignore that stuff and enjoy the show. But still, it's weird. Most adult wrestling fans look like they haven't been out of their house since Clinton got a blowjob in the oval office. I'm sorry, but it's true. Have you ever been to a place where wrestling fans are? Half of them are overweight, unshaven, I'd say a good 20% are disabled or have something awfully wrong with them, and the rest are children and their disinterested parents.

I'm not making fun of disabled or overweight people, but when you put all of that together it doesn't look good. Nobody wants to be associated with "that". That's the stigma. On top of that, there's the whole "why are you watching wrestling if you're over 18", and "it's for children" thing. Don't even get me started on the "but it's not real" crap. I'm sure we've all had that pleasant conversation.

What I'm saying is, there's a lot more stuff that are turning people off than WWE's direction. Most people don't turn on a wrestling show because of all the stigma that's around it in order to actually get to WWE's corny style. And with TNA? Forget about it. At last people know the WWE exists. TNA? No chance.

For a non-wrestling fan to like the WWE he has to shake off the stigma and give the show a chance. For a non-wrestling fan to like TNA he has to shake off the stigma and then SOMEHOW find out that TNA exists and then give the show a chance. How do you find TNA exists if you're not a wrestling fan? Beats me. Internet maybe? Word of mouth? Yeah, those will work, but we have a problem. TNA's image on the internet and fans' opinions on TNA are so fowl, it likely turns people off before the show. That's the problem here, all this hate which is sometimes fair but a lot of times unfair is screwing TNA over so bad.

So with that said, you see there's a lot more to gaining viewers than just "make it about the wrestling". That will do nothing. It will please you I'm sure, but it will do nothing.

My opinion is that wrestling is just fucked. All of it. ROH, TNA, WWE. All fucked. They're all hit their max of fans they can get, and now it's either gonna stay the same or melt away. It seems like it's the latter. I don't see WWE gaining viewers for an extended period of time and I don't see TNA pulling off a 1.4 in the coming years. Wrestling is running on fumes now. Rebrand and change all you want, make it about whatever you want, it doesn't matter. Until that stigma is somehow lifted from the whole genre you can forget about new fans.

TNA's only chance is drawing in WWE fans. Problem is most of them don't know it exists. Or they're too loyal to the WWE. Or they simply don't like it (which is the only fair reason here). They can hope for that, and maybe they can pull it off somehow. Making it all about the wrestling though? Not sure that will do it. I've never ever seen any proof past or present that shows "all about the wrestling" works. Just because it's the polar opposite of the WWE doesn't mean it will work.

Personally, I think TNA shouldn't try to be unique and innovative. Do what WWE does (storylines, entertainment, matches, the whole deal), but do it better. Have your matches be better, have your divisions be better (tag is solid, women is solid, x division is solid, mid card is solid, main event is solid), have your characters be more interesting, have storylines be more compelling through BETTER writing and better storytelling (note: NOT UNIQUE, it can be a rip off as long as it's a good rip off, and not too blatant), have your entertainment skits be more entertaining and you'll have a shot.

In such an ideal case, even the most loyal WWE fan will think twice before brushing TNA away. At the end of the day a good show is a good show. If TNA's not drawing people in now it's because it's not good enough to do that. Note, I didn't say not good. Not good ENOUGH. Until they're good enough they'll rot in the 0.8 - 1.1 range and that's that.

 

[IT Factor]

Ok, that was WAY too much to quote and respond to. I will respond quite simply that each company needs to focus on one thing and doing it well. WWE obviously focuses on entertainment and TNA should be focusing on giving what WWE lacks, and what is that? WRESTLING, that's right! It's really not that hard to follow. In every business, competing companies need that one thing different that makes them unique. Wrestling/entertainment is no different. TNA should be focusing on wrestling and making their own identity to stand out and not blend in with WWE. Is it really that hard to follow the logic here? God, some people do not read before replying do they?

 

[horseman5]

He did help guys like EC3, Gunner, Spud (as a manager in my book), The Bromans. Get over. He is way better then Russo, who got nobody over with his angles. There matches got them over Was the EC3 Spud shack BS strait up BS and lame as fuck? Hell yeah! That is probably bad writting, not him. You give EC3 a mic, he does not need to be told what to say. If I was in charge I would fire the writters. You either know what to say or we will find the next Bobby Heenan to manage you! Get rid of writters in wrestling please.

Sorry to repley again, but the shack shit killed EC3's heat. I would fire them on the spot!

 

[Fenris]

Just because TNA never valued or knew how to use one of the top athletes in the modern era doesn't mean that every other company in the world doesn't recognize his value. The only reason WWE doesn't want him is because they already have Bryan, they already had CM Punk, they already have talent that play similar roles and they are big on making sure there is no overlap so as not to distract fans from the people they are already buying into.

I guess this is where I piss off the Internet. Here's the problem: TNA OVERvalued AJ Styles. For over a decade TNA crammed Styles down their fanbases throats as their Franchise Guy. It failed horribly. Contrary to their hopes that some vanilla indy midget in $9.98 Walmart bicycle shorts with his $4.99 ValuCuts haircut would lead them to the promised land and he didn't. In fact he left to go wrestle in Ring of Bingo Halls and noone even cares.

There's good reason for that: AJ Styles is NOT a draw. Could he have been? We'll never know now, his window closed and he didn't do the things he needed to do TO be a draw, unlike CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. Instead he bitched and whined anytime anything ever got suggested that veered from his Bingo Hall caliber gimmick, or required him to get better on the mic, or didn't involve long boring ass matches with his little TNA Klique.

THAT is why the WWE has no interest. They offered him a chance to prove himself and EARN a spot, he balked at having to actually learn how to WORK down in Developmental and wanted it all handed to him. Make no mistake, if AJ even had a tiny amount of drawing power the WWE would be interested.

As for the topic at hand, TNA's biggest problem is marketing. They don't know how to market themselves, they don't know how to pick the best talents to put all of their efforts behind, they don't know how to use their stars to get over their new stars, they think that simply winning or losing matches makes the difference between getting over or not. They don't understand how to sell their product so there is no focus and everyone gets lost in the shuffle.

Well see, we do agree on some things. On the talent front I agree. Instead of building quality talent that could have drew they forced a Vanilla Midget down our throats, they forced some morbidly obese nerd squeezed into $10 bike shorts(of course) down our throats as Fatberg, they totally abandoned what was WORKING to cram a 5'2" CM Punk wannabe down our throats and last I heard their in house jobber went from Brooklyn Brawler level to WHC because he looks like Daniel Bryan. Prior to that let's not forget they revolved around ex WWE guys, not necessarily a bad thing but again, Day 1: Debut, by Thursdays Impact: New WHC doesn't work.

Of course in reality, how CAN you market any of that? For the most part it has been garbage since 2004 up until 2010 then garbage again since mid 2012. Maybe in 2011 when viewership(a better barometer than ratings) was steadily between 1.8 million to 2.5 million they should have paid attention and went with what was working. You know, marketed it and STUCK with it.

Oh well, it's too late now. Unfortunate, for about a year and a half they were showing potential, now they're back to being ROH meets Smackdown. For the record I had mega high hopes for TNA for years, Dixie and "Creative" don't get it.

is way better then Russo, who got nobody over with his angles.

This is true, other than Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chyna, DX, Dude Love/Mick Foley, The APA, Kane, New Age Outlaws, Mr. McMahon, Jeff Jarrett, Booker T, Kronik, Bobby Roode, James Storm, Matt Morgan and on and on and on and on and on Vince Russo's writing never got nobody over. Fail.

Oh well, +5 IWC points for senselessly and randomly bashing Vince Russo anyways.

 

[Fenris]

I agree that Russo gets blamed for a lot of things he shouldn't, and doesn't get praise for the few things he does do.

In the last couple of years of WCW, do you know which storylines captured me the most? The "Powers-That-Be" and "The Millionaires v New Bloods" storyline, both heavily involving Vince Russo. It was fresh programming, he promoted new guys on top like Booker T and Jeff Jarrett, rather than Hogan, Nash, Sid Vicious and Sting all the time. He is also the only person to stand up to Hulk Hogan on-air, and call him out on his booking selfishness.

Also, he was head booker on "Raw" during the Austin-McMahon feud.

I think Russo's problem is that he has made a lot of enemies in the industry. Powerful enemies, who muddy his name, and use their influence to discredit him.

Back in the early days of IWC-dom the WCW was the great Satan, WWF was God and ECW was Wrestling Jesus. Vince Russo used to have his nuts washed online nonstop..... Until he dared to leave the WWF for the WCW. He has been Satan 2.0 ever since.

The irony is Russo is the one who brought in the shitty 6 sided Ring the IWC jizzes over, created the X-Division and pushed for IWC darling AJ Styles to be given a chance. All things the IWC loves, yet they still senselessly trash the creator.

Ironically those ideas suck in my view. It's not even that I like Russo that much, personally I thought the Attitude Era was average at best, didn't like WCW towards the end and became a casual TNA fan after starting out a die hard fan. I was however incredibly excited to see hat the Satanic Trinity of Russo, Bischoff and Hogan could do as a united team and honestly that period of TNA was the most enjoyment I got from Wrestling since WCW circa 1996-1999.

 

[Lance]

Ahh Fenris your facts are wrong .
Jarrett brought in the six sided ring based off working in one in mexico.
Jarrett also created the x division not vinny ru .

Now IWC is really hard on Russo but what most people wont agree with but is the truth russo has some great ideas and some really bad ones .
The problem with Russo is his bad ideas are really bad and thats what people remember not the really good ones. hell ill name some of his good ideas just in last 6 years Main Evnet Mafia , Heel Jeff Hardy , Desmond Wolf , MCMG ,Foley vs Sting , Anderson vs Angle. Russo is not that bad just needs an editor which no one can figure that out for some reason . Creative people are crazy and cray ideas.

 

[horseman5]

This is true, other than Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chyna, DX, Dude Love/Mick Foley, The APA, Kane, New Age Outlaws, Mr. McMahon, Jeff Jarrett, Booker T, Kronik, Bobby Roode, James Storm, Matt Morgan and on and on and on and on and on Vince Russo's writing never got nobody over. Fail.

Oh well, +5 IWC points for senselessly and randomly bashing Vince Russo anyways.[/QUOTE]
Except everyone that was in WWE at the time agrees with me about Russo. Watch a shoot video or listen to a podcast. Besides that what works in WWE will never in the #2 company.

 

[overkill]

Ok, that was WAY too much to quote and respond to. I will respond quite simply that each company needs to focus on one thing and doing it well. WWE obviously focuses on entertainment and TNA should be focusing on giving what WWE lacks, and what is that? WRESTLING, that's right! It's really not that hard to follow. In every business, competing companies need that one thing different that makes them unique. Wrestling/entertainment is no different. TNA should be focusing on wrestling and making their own identity to stand out and not blend in with WWE. Is it really that hard to follow the logic here? God, some people do not read before replying do they?

I'll get board of TNA if it does that, you mean if it basically becomes ROH?
I like it the way it is, they get a lot of things right and some wrong.
I'm always really entertained when I watch Impact