Anybody you would've had join the NWO Hollywood/Wolfpac?

[Wolf Pac]

Using the rosters in 96/97/98 when both the NWO Hollywood & Wolfpac were formed & running wild, was there anybody who hadn't ever joined either of the group, that you would've made join the NWO if you were booking at the time? And state which of the two factions you would've made the wrestler of your choice, join?

My picks would be Booker T & Rick Steiner and I would've made em join the Wolfpac. For some reason I've always thought the red color fit them plus both their brothers had joined the NWO Hollywood, so it would've been kickass if the 4 brothers were feuding while being on opposing teams.

 

[RicoLen]

I don't think I would have done much in terms of changing the roster around, I think I would have paired it down some. I liked the wolfpack, but I would have left it as just Nash, Savage, Luger & Sting, and taken Hollywood down a notch or two and left it as Hall, Hogan, Big Show, & Scott Steiner.

I would have also had pumped up Raven's Flock, and put Bret Hart, Chris Benoit & DDP in the Flock. Making them a foursome of Raven, Bret Hart, Benoit, & DPP.

Raven's Flock was so damned underutilized in WCW. Bret Hart, Chris Benoit & DDP would have been amazing characters under the disillusioned wrestlers with a grunge look.

 

[justtxyank]

I don't think I would have done much in terms of changing the roster around, I think I would have paired it down some. I liked the wolfpack, but I would have left it as just Nash, Savage, Luger & Sting, and taken Hollywood down a notch or two and left it as Hall, Hogan, Big Show, & Scott Steiner.

I would have also had pumped up Raven's Flock, and put Bret Hart, Chris Benoit & DDP in the Flock. Making them a foursome of Raven, Bret Hart, Benoit, & DPP.

Raven's Flock was so damned underutilized in WCW. Bret Hart, Chris Benoit & DDP would have been amazing characters under the disillusioned wrestlers with a grunge look.

Bret Hart and DDP in the Flock? Did you watch WCW? Bret Hart and DDP, heck even Benoit to an extent hardly had the character to be a "member" of the Flock. Suggesting Bret Hart be in the Flock is egregious.

 

[RicoLen]

Bret Hart and DDP in the Flock? Did you watch WCW? Bret Hart and DDP, heck even Benoit to an extent hardly had the character to be a "member" of the Flock. Suggesting Bret Hart be in the Flock is egregious.

You don't think Bret Hart, coming to WCW after the screw job, or 6 months later after Owen died saying he's sick of the life pro-wrestlers "these days" live and being completely disillusioned with the business as a whole and just sitting in the front row acting like he didn't care anymore and once in a while taking it out on someone in the ring wouldn't work? Bret Hart already had the look in WCW, and he sure as hell had motive to be one of Raven's Flock, even the new leader.

Yes, I did watch WCW. I lived WCW during the Monday Night Wars. I was never an attitude era fan (though I am slowly becoming one over the last few weeks), I was always solidly on the side of WCW during the Monday Night Wars. That's why I say it. DDP, & Bret Hart both had the look of members of The Flock at that time period. Benoit could certainly have pulled it off.

As far as the "character", they certainly could address that easily enough, as I already addressed with Bret Hart. It's easy to find a reason to be disillusioned. I know the flock was more about being an outcast, however, when Fight Club hit theater's I couldn't help walking away from that movie thinking about Raven's Flock and how similar they were. Maybe it's because of that, that I think of Raven's flock more as disillusioned wrestlers with nothing to do with themselves rather than the social outcasts with a grunge gimmick that they actually were. But I think had it not been disbanded they could have used the Fight Club philosophy and propelled that stable much further than ever before, and in that way Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, & DDP would have worked wonders. /Shrug that's my opinion at least.

Keep Raven's Flock as a foursome of Raven, Bret Hart, DDP, & Benoit, and start them in a feud with nWo Hollywood (Hall, Hogan, Giant, & Scott Steiner), and I think it could have been awesome.

 

[dadubay]

I agree with the Rick Steiner in the Wolfpac. Other people I would have put in:
Fit Finlay, he was really quiet and would have been a nice quiet assassin for the NWO, or as a good guy in the Wolfpac to combat Scott Norton.
Hugh Mourus/Bill Demott, I always liked him and he never had a story line.
I would have also put in a strong luchador like La Parka or somebody to help get them over.

 

[dadubay]

To the person who mentioned the Flock: the flock was so great because they were the anti NWO. They were a bunch of people who were under utilized that Raven "brainwashed". A strong/established wrestler like Bret Hart would not have worked. This is what made Raven's feuds with Saturn and Kanyon work.

 

[SharpShooter083]

One thing I wouldn't have done is put Bret Hart or Curt Hennig in the NWO. They should have been on team WCW the whole time. Both come from famous wrestling families and character-wise it only makes sense that they stood for tradition.

 

[RicoLen]

To the person who mentioned the Flock: the flock was so great because they were the anti NWO. They were a bunch of people who were under utilized that Raven "brainwashed". A strong/established wrestler like Bret Hart would not have worked. This is what made Raven's feuds with Saturn and Kanyon work.

You guys are all thinking about "The Hitman". In WCW Bret Hart was pretty different than he was in the WWF. Had Bret Hart debuted like I'm suggesting, talking about how he's sick of pro-wrestling in general, tired of being screwed, etc. If Raven had piped up during Bret Hart's debut, they could have played it off as Bret buying in to what Raven was selling, and Bret Hart could have done something similar to The Rock while he was in Nation of Domination in that he could have been just another guy for a short while but pretty quickly realize he's the big guy in the group and challenge Raven for leadership over the flock.

As for DDP & Benoit, they were both fairly under-utilized guys in WCW during the days of Raven's Flock. Benoit left WCW because he felt under utilized, and DDP was made a big star in 1999. If, during the triple threat match between Raven, Benoit & DDP at Uncensored, they had played that fight off differently, Raven could have re-established his Flock again.

/Sigh I don't know why I even get into these conversations. Forums like this are so anti-creative it's pathetic. All they ever do is s**t all over anyone with ideas that differ from what is currently happening, or did actually happen.

 

[obamartins]

First and foremost the Wolfpac is Scott Hall's idea & by his rights should be his intellectual property - this is why Nash/Hall sued to get the money they were owed after WCW for all the merchadise they sold but anyways.....

Scott Halll should have been Wolfpac. Kevin Nash also. If Syxx was not fired they him too. This is the ORIGINAL wolfpac.

I agree with Nash/Hall in there shoot interview when they said it should have been Nash/Hall vs. Hogan/Savage basically two different generations clashing.

I always thought Juventud Guerrera would have fit with Wolfpac & La Parka with nWo Hollywood.

Also im really sorry but i can't help but LOL at someone saying Fit Finlay in the Wolfpac or even nWo Hollywood for that matter. I just cannot imagine Fit Finlay walking down to the ring with Hall & Nash as he was just so uncool back then.

 

[trashboy]

You guys are all thinking about "The Hitman". In WCW Bret Hart was pretty different than he was in the WWF. Had Bret Hart debuted like I'm suggesting, talking about how he's sick of pro-wrestling in general, tired of being screwed, etc. If Raven had piped up during Bret Hart's debut, they could have played it off as Bret buying in to what Raven was selling, and Bret Hart could have done something similar to The Rock while he was in Nation of Domination in that he could have been just another guy for a short while but pretty quickly realize he's the big guy in the group and challenge Raven for leadership over the flock.

As for DDP & Benoit, they were both fairly under-utilized guys in WCW during the days of Raven's Flock. Benoit left WCW because he felt under utilized, and DDP was made a big star in 1999. If, during the triple threat match between Raven, Benoit & DDP at Uncensored, they had played that fight off differently, Raven could have re-established his Flock again.

/Sigh I don't know why I even get into these conversations. Forums like this are so anti-creative it's pathetic. All they ever do is s**t all over anyone with ideas that differ from what is currently happening, or did actually happen.

Your idea is "pathetic." The Flock was great with their midcarders / jobbers.. Raven was awesome as the leader, to have Bret Hart become The Rock of The Flock would have sucked. I just can't picture Bret, DDP or Benoit joining The Flock. And to get rid of Raven as the leader would be a terrible idea. And I was a huge Bret and DDP fan back then.

But on topic, I always wanted DDP to join the Wolfpac. they hinted at it a few times.. i remember when the Wolfpac offered a spot to DDP, he came out on the ramp and said something like "I can't believe I'm going to do this" and was about to take his shirt off when Hogan and Rodman, i think it was, ran down and attacked him or something.. and that was the last we really heard from DDP possibly joining the Wolfpac..

and like others said, since Scott Steiner and Stevie Ray joined the original black and white express, i always thought it would have been cool if Booker T and Rick Steiner joined the Wolfpac to feud with their brothers.

and yes, the nWo Wolfpac was not the same without Hall and Syxx being part of the stable. The nWo Wolfpac would have been much cooler if Hall, Nash, and Syxx were part of it. But of course, Syxx was fired long before the red and black emerged and they had Hall turn on Nash, which upset me being a huge Outsiders fan

 

[MisterRob]

I think a better question is who should NOT have been in the nWo. There are so many people they threw into the nWo that shouldn't have been involved, and WCW really dropped the ball when they started expanding the nWo like a wild fire instead of keeping it a smaller group of big names.

The best example of this for me, of who should not have been in the nWo, is Curt Henning. I think WCW could've really gone in the right direction with the Four Horsemen by having Henning join it and become one of its leaders going forward. It fit the Horsemen mold perfectly and it really would've given the Horsemen a stronger push to fight against the nWo long term. They really dropped the ball with this... one of many things they screwed up.

The nWo should have remained much smaller then it was, and then split into two rivaling factions and the Wolfpac should have been Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Syxx should've been involved, but he was out of WCW and back in WWF by this time, I believe. Sting and Luger should NOT have even been in the Wolfpac. I thought it was entirely stupid at the time and I still think its stupid now. Sting should never have been in any faction of the nWo, for any reason. Luger should've been in nWo Hollywood and he didn't fit in at all with the Wolfpac. Randy Savage should've been in nWo Hollywood, too, and not in the Wolfpac.. although, at least he had presence that fit the mold much better then the silliness of Luger or Sting being in the Wolfpac.

NWO Wolfpac should've been the young stars clashing with the older guard. It should've been Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Konnan. I could've even seen Scott Steiner and Buff bagwell in the Wolfpac and would've much prefered them over the actual names in the original stable. Even better, I think Booker T should've been in the Wolfpac and Stevie Ray should've been in nWo Hollywood so the two brothers could've clashed. Booker T would've fit nicely in the Wolfpac, I feel. I could've seen Rick Steiner in the Wolfpac, too, to counter Scott Steiner in nWo Hollywood. That wouldn't have been bad at all.

My personal choice for someone I would've liked to have been in the Wolfpac: Chris Jericho.

Another option I feel they could've gone with was Diamond Dallas Page. He had history with BOTH Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, was over at the time, and would've fit in with the Wolfpac well, I think.



To me it should've been a stable war in WCW, not just between the two nWo factions but also the Four Horsemen. Hell, the Flock would've even been a cool addition to the stable war.


nWo Hollywood:
Hollywood Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Stevie Ray, the Giant


nWo Wolfpac:
Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Konnan, DDP, Rick Steiner, Booker T, Chris Jericho


Four Horsemen:
Ric Flair, Curt Henning, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Arn Anderson



Hell, when Bret Hart came to WCW they should've added a new version of the Hart Foundation into the war, too. Bret Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog all came over to WCW. They could've added Chris Jericho or Chris Benoit who were both trained in the Dungeon.

 

[New Hot Fed]

First and foremost the Wolfpac is Scott Hall's idea & by his rights should be his intellectual property - this is why Nash/Hall sued to get the money they were owed after WCW for all the merchadise they sold but anyways.....

Scott Halll should have been Wolfpac. Kevin Nash also. If Syxx was not fired they him too. This is the ORIGINAL wolfpac.

I agree with Nash/Hall in there shoot interview when they said it should have been Nash/Hall vs. Hogan/Savage basically two different generations clashing.

I always thought Juventud Guerrera would have fit with Wolfpac & La Parka with nWo Hollywood.

Also im really sorry but i can't help but LOL at someone saying Fit Finlay in the Wolfpac or even nWo Hollywood for that matter. I just cannot imagine Fit Finlay walking down to the ring with Hall & Nash as he was just so uncool back then.

Pretty much agree, Nash, Hall and Pac were the Wolfpac. What I would have done have these three and add Konan and Juventud to the group. And then have Buff and BPP join these guys instead of nWo Hollywood as they were the cool guys and ladies men. And have the Wolfpac act like tweeners instead of as full fledge babyfaces. Have them attack babyfaces, they were the nWo after all, just another branch. And instead of have the pointless boring Hogan vs Savage feud in early 98 that split the group, have Hogan vanish post Starrcade 97 and have a war inside the nWo with Savage leading one side and Nash leading the other side. Remember there started to be friction in the nWo in the first place when Savage hit Nick Patrick and a few nWo guys and Nash hit Savage back. Then they all forgot that and had Savage join Nash to form the Wolfpac. But it should have continued and be Savage v Nash.

 

[johnny_hardcore]

sorry i disagree four horseman were done the nwo was perfect the way things happened except for that one nitro when ddp was about to join and got jumped from behind that was the only time where they dropped the ball with the nwo ddp should have joined the nwo red. i loved everything about the nwo you just never knewwho was going to join next. it was the absolute greatest thing to happen to wrestling! it was perfect the way it was.

I think a better question is who should NOT have been in the nWo. There are so many people they threw into the nWo that shouldn't have been involved, and WCW really dropped the ball when they started expanding the nWo like a wild fire instead of keeping it a smaller group of big names.

The best example of this for me, of who should not have been in the nWo, is Curt Henning. I think WCW could've really gone in the right direction with the Four Horsemen by having Henning join it and become one of its leaders going forward. It fit the Horsemen mold perfectly and it really would've given the Horsemen a stronger push to fight against the nWo long term. They really dropped the ball with this... one of many things they screwed up.

The nWo should have remained much smaller then it was, and then split into two rivaling factions and the Wolfpac should have been Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Syxx should've been involved, but he was out of WCW and back in WWF by this time, I believe. Sting and Luger should NOT have even been in the Wolfpac. I thought it was entirely stupid at the time and I still think its stupid now. Sting should never have been in any faction of the nWo, for any reason. Luger should've been in nWo Hollywood and he didn't fit in at all with the Wolfpac. Randy Savage should've been in nWo Hollywood, too, and not in the Wolfpac.. although, at least he had presence that fit the mold much better then the silliness of Luger or Sting being in the Wolfpac.

NWO Wolfpac should've been the young stars clashing with the older guard. It should've been Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Konnan. I could've even seen Scott Steiner and Buff bagwell in the Wolfpac and would've much prefered them over the actual names in the original stable. Even better, I think Booker T should've been in the Wolfpac and Stevie Ray should've been in nWo Hollywood so the two brothers could've clashed. Booker T would've fit nicely in the Wolfpac, I feel. I could've seen Rick Steiner in the Wolfpac, too, to counter Scott Steiner in nWo Hollywood. That wouldn't have been bad at all.

My personal choice for someone I would've liked to have been in the Wolfpac: Chris Jericho.

Another option I feel they could've gone with was Diamond Dallas Page. He had history with BOTH Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, was over at the time, and would've fit in with the Wolfpac well, I think.



To me it should've been a stable war in WCW, not just between the two nWo factions but also the Four Horsemen. Hell, the Flock would've even been a cool addition to the stable war.


nWo Hollywood:
Hollywood Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger, Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Stevie Ray, the Giant


nWo Wolfpac:
Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Konnan, DDP, Rick Steiner, Booker T, Chris Jericho


Four Horsemen:
Ric Flair, Curt Henning, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Arn Anderson



Hell, when Bret Hart came to WCW they should've added a new version of the Hart Foundation into the war, too. Bret Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog all came over to WCW. They could've added Chris Jericho or Chris Benoit who were both trained in the Dungeon.

 

[jaceynightheat]

I really think that the nWo in WWE should have been Nash, Hall, X Pac, HHH & HBK. It would've been neat seeing them all together wearin' black & white

 

[STEELE2469]

Hogan, Nash, Hall and Syxxpac ruled wrestling, add in in Sting, Buff Bagwell, Lex Lugar, who Ididnt like as nWo but add in Brett, the Japanese faction of the Great Muta and Kabuki, and WOW, you have a great Stable!!!!!

 

[relentless1]

i think scott hall shouldve always been with nash, bagwell shouldve joined the wolfpac when he came back and was babyface, ddp shouldve joined, luger and sting SHOULD NOT HAVE JOINED, cut out adams, stevie ray,vincent and horace from nwo hollywood, the rosters should have been as follows:

nWo Hollywood

Hogan, Savage, Bischoff, Stiener, The Giant, Curt Henning, Scott Norton, Rick Rude, The Disciple

nWo Wolfpac

Nash, Hall, Booker T, Bagwell, Konnan

 

[justtxyank]

As for DDP & Benoit, they were both fairly under-utilized guys in WCW during the days of Raven's Flock. Benoit left WCW because he felt under utilized, and DDP was made a big star in 1999. If, during the triple threat match between Raven, Benoit & DDP at Uncensored, they had played that fight off differently, Raven could have re-established his Flock again.

/Sigh I don't know why I even get into these conversations. Forums like this are so anti-creative it's pathetic. All they ever do is s**t all over anyone with ideas that differ from what is currently happening, or did actually happen.

I can tell you weren't actually watching WCW if you think DDP was undertilized during the Flock days and wasn't made a star until 1999. 1997 he turned super face by refusing to join the nWo and taking out Hall and Nash. He then had a high profile feud with Randy Savage, one of the biggest stars in the world that main evented a major ppv. He became the leader of "WCW" stepping in for Ric Flair to beat Curt Hennig for the US title after Flair was gone from the company for a short time. He went on to feud with Hogan over the summer, teaming with Karl Malone and Jay Leno in the two most hyped matches of the summer for WCW while Goldberg was busy defending the title in the undercard. He then went on to win War Games on the ppv where the Flock was disbanded. He then main evented Havoc with Goldberg, Goldberg's first REAL title defense on ppv. All this was before 1999.

I think you overrate what the Flock was though. This was a group of brainwashed lackeys. The group's entire purpose was to put over Raven. Why would you lower the standing of a guy like Bret Hart to put him in a mid-card stable like that? It's not about lack of creativity, it's about why would this particular "creative" idea actually produce something interesting for the character? The better idea for WCW was to put Bret Hart in a mid-card group with a bunch of no-names and Raven instead of drawing money off him in matches with Savage, Flair, Henning, Hogan (tag) etc?

Edit: By the way, mature up man. Just because I don't like your idea doesn't mean I'm pooping all over it or you. I definitely think things should have been done differently in WCW with Bret Hart and with the Flock, I just disagree with the idea you came up with.

 

[WunNightStan619]

I think that both the NWO's factions were good the way they were for the most part. The only 2 exceptions would be Bret Hart and Curt Hennig. Both of which i think should have stayed WCW. Something about seeing bret under the rule of hogan was just unrealistic to me. And Curt Hennig was just too talented to be an understudy for them. The wolfpack was fine the way it was, i wouldnt change them at all

 

[Red Rum]

Being a huge WCW fan back in the day, I will say this much. I think WCW dropped the ball on the nWo when they separated it into two separate factions. Yes, both nWo Hollywood and nWo Wolfpac were bad to the core. However, it was the very thing that kind of killed the whole buzz. Especially since WWF/E's Attitude Era was on the rise, and becoming more and more popular each week. To me, the angle didn't make much sense. I don't care if Kevin Nash said it was all a "plan" from the start. The nWo was supposed to be a takeover of WCW. In a way, this was the first true invasion angle in professional wrestling.

Then, January 4th, 1999 came. This was the final nail in the coffin when they made the nWo Wolfpac Elite. Then, they threw nWo Hollywood under the bus and made it a B-team. When that happened, WCW was falling under real fast from there.

Going back to your original question. "Anybody you would've had join the NWO Hollywood/Wolfpac?" No, because the New World Order separation shouldn't have been done in the first place. Though, Stevie Ray was in it, and they should have added in Booker T to make the Harlem Heat part of the faction. Other than that, no. People to take out, sure. There were people in the nWo just wasting their career being part of the faction. Although, they will always be part of wrestling history due to this move, regardless.

One more thing to add. If the nWo separation never happened, it would have been around much longer than it was. I also missed nWo Souled Out. I always liked the idea of the nWo having their own Pay-Per-View event, especially since the New World Order was supposed to be a takeover of World Championship Wrestling, as I said before. This faction is the most infamous, and hands down the greatest stable to ever be formed. It can never be recreated.

 

[QBall111]

I actually would've started cutting some fat. I had no problem with the nWo Black & White being so big because I can just remember all the propaganda of nWo going around, every commercial break you heard "The following announcement has been paid for by the new world order..." I felt it was like they were using stuff like that to get others to buy into the nWo so numbers weren't the problem, it was the personalities in the group or possibly being in the group that made the group less of a threat. I was a teenager, I thought that the nWo at a time was a feared group and should be taken as a threat.

Here are the names of who shouldn't of been in either group:

Disco Inferno: This was the worst move to bring him in. He was a mid carder/jobber. Used for the entertainment of me thinking him and Alex Wright were idiots coming out dancing. Not only that, Disco Inferno was given the title of being in nWo "Elite." It really made me feel the group was less threatening and was about to be used for comedic relief.

La Parka: I know you probably will call me stupid on this but I went to a house show in Odessa, Texas right after the whole Fingerpoke of Doom and Eddie Guerrero creating the stable the L.W.O., who La Parka came out and teamed with Kevin Nash. He also had microphone time and you could hear him clear, he was totally supporting the nWo... I know it was a house show and not televised but it totally didn't make sense.

Mike Rotunda (V.K. Wallstreet): Where the hell was he? I don't even remember him but his name was in the list. I know he was associated with MMM but I don't recall much.

Randy Savage: I sorta liked him in Wolfpack but at the same time, he never really had that much spotlight in the Wolfpack, he was always pushed back. Him and Hogan were also too close in character. I would've loved to just see him being WCW the whole time.

DDP: Yes, they hinted at it, but this is how I took the Rodman chairshot: DDP was already a stand-alone WCW guy anyways who didn't need a group to get over. We all thought he'd go wolfpack but I think the chairshot and the quick departure of the storyline was WCW's way of saying DDP never needed a group in the first place.

Ted DiBiase: I think characters who switch to different Fed's should at the most part keep their character. MMM was considered to be the funder of the nWo but he should've been his own character, the same character he had in WWE, where he would buy his way for championship gold. We should've seen him do that in WCW. I don't think he needed the nWo

Bret Hart: He aligned himself with the group, never did wear nWo colors but he should've been a WWF crossover who did not go nWo. I don't think him and Hogan are a good mix. Plus him later being the leader of nWo 2000 didn't play out.

Vincent: I don't recall Vincent except for standing in the background and smiling. I watched WCW faithfully and I may have seen him in maybe 5 or less matches.

Disciple: he left, but he is kinda like Vincent, a little more action but really did not do anything.

Jeff Jarrett: If he was around WCW with the character he had earlier, yes, I would've put him in WCW but he was a bad addition to nWo 2000, I would've just kept original members for one last run, at least Hart made some sense.. Actually come to think of it, he actually pissed me off on several occasions when in nWo 2000

 

[MisterRob]

sorry i disagree four horseman were done the nwo was perfect the way things happened except for that one nitro when ddp was about to join and got jumped from behind that was the only time where they dropped the ball with the nwo ddp should have joined the nwo red. i loved everything about the nwo you just never knewwho was going to join next. it was the absolute greatest thing to happen to wrestling! it was perfect the way it was.

It was the greatest thing to happen to wrestling at the time. But no, it was far from perfect. I disagree with you entirely. The nWo was great in the beginning, but then they lost direction and started expanding like crazy. Everyone was joining the nWo! Eventually it wasn't really shocking or exciting seeing who was going to join the nWo, because it got to a point where it had happened so often and been watered down so much it was losing its meaning. By that time the real question was: who was left in WCW?

It got to the point where nWo seemed to far outweigh the WCW roster, and there were so few WCW guys to even stand up and fight against the nWo. So, because of that, the whole purpose of the angle was lost. They NEEDED the Four Horsemen. The Horsemen was the very foundation of WCW, the heart and soul of it, and that was important when you had this huge invading force trying to take over the company and change what it was. Kill its tradition and everything it had been before, and the Four Horsemen stood for those things more then anyone. You also should've had guys like Sting, Lex Luger, among many others who were key players in the history of WCW remain loyal and fight to save their company. Sting and Luger should NEVER have joined the nWo. Sting fought to kill it, to oppose everything it was, and then suddenly he joins nWo Wolfplac? Huh?

There needed to be a group representing WCW, simple as that, and the Horsemen were it. They were never utilized right during that angle, they were always pushed nowhere, and they were buried quickly when they did stand up to the nWo. That should not have happened. They could've made stars out of the Horsemen as faces while making stars out of the nWo as heels. They didn't.

When the nWo DID break apart into two factions it was already far too big and overcrowded. They should've used these two factions to cut the fat and get rid of a lot of talent that just didn't need to be in the nWo and didn't add anything to it.

NWO Hollywood should've represented Hollywood Hogan and his goals, and should've been the old stars who were still clinging to their spotlight and believing they made wrestling and deserved to rule it. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Ted Dibiase, even Curt Henning. The Steiner brothers would've been good here, for sure Scott Steiner as the second coming of Hogan. The Disciple would've fit here. They could still have had some young guys to flesh out their numbers and ones who fit and followed the ideology of Hollywood Hogan.. like Buff Bagwell and the Giant (who had been claimed to be Andre's son, anyway, at one time).

NWO Wolfpac should've been the younger stars, the present and future, who were bringing in the new generation's movement. That should've been led by Kevin Nash and Scott Hall without question. Syxx shouldve been there. And guys like Konnan, DDP, and others would've kept the Wolfpac the way it was, like a version of the Kliq.


-----


On another note: I think Eric Bischoff should NOT have joined the nWo. I really do. Or, at least, if he did it should've been much later. I really think they should've kept Ted Dibiase as the financial backer and really developed that and Dibiase in WCW. Dibiase is a legend! The guy clould've been so much more then he ever was in the nWo. He could've been exactly what Eric Bischoff became, but Ted Dibiase would've done it TEN times better. Dibiase had the money, could manipulate, and they could've played off him buying talent, buying titles, and trying to buy the network's loyalty to the nWo. Have him clashing with those in power of WCW and it would've been much more interesting. Not to mention the segments with Dibiase, and the promos he could've cut playing this role, would've been great.


Shit, when they finally did create a SECOND show, they could've made it into an angle where Ted Dibiase finally manipulated the Network into giving the nWo their own show. And then you could've really had two shows competing against one another, WCW and the nWo. And THEN have people jumping ship back and forth, have the two brands at war with one another over whose going to survive. Far better!

When Eric Bischoff joined the nWo, the angle jumped the shark.

 

[relentless1]

i think after the split, you couldve gotten rid of alot of the dead weight and capped off the feud at war games : nWo vs nWo with the stip that whichever team loses disbands as an nWo unit, id have

nWo Hollywood: Hogan, Stiener, Giant, Henning

vs

nWo Wolfpac: Nash, Hall, Konnan, Booker T

have nWo wolfpac win, they continue on to be a dx army of sorts, turning into full fledged faces, have hogans crew dwindle down to him, bischoff, disciple giant and stiener with a new name like just "hollywood" or something as a platform to elevate the giant and BPP to main event status...

 

[FlairFan2003]

Personally I think a big part of the booking mistakes WCW made was separating the NWO into NWO Hollywood & NWO Wolfpac, they basically encompasssed the entire roster, the whole idea made little sense, especially since Hogan only appeared part time and his group was filled mostly with the mid carders and jobbers that had been added to the NWO to protect Hogan and Nash from actualy hacing to lose a match once in awhile.

Instead of adding people, they had the right idea in early 99 when Nash & Hogan reconciled and they purged all the mid carders and hangers ons from the group, re creating a lean NWO elite machine with Hogan, Nash, Hall, Scott Steiner, and I think Buff Bagwell was still with them.

Of course, as soon as that started gaining traction, WCW @#$%canned it, breaking up the group, having Hogan and Nash both go fan favorite, which pretty much killed all the momentum the company had for the NWO vs Flair fued not to mention any rematches Goldberg might have had with Hogan or Nash. Eventutally they did put Goldberg vs Nash on the mid card of a non-major PPV I think and let Goldberg go over but how you could squander that re match like that was insane.

So my answer is No One - the two groups was a dumb idea, convuluted, ruined the dynamic of the NWO vs WCW fued, re uniting and slimming down the roster was the right move. WCW should have stuck with that

It was the greatest thing to happen to wrestling at the time. But no, it was far from perfect. I disagree with you entirely. The nWo was great in the beginning, but then they lost direction and started expanding like crazy. Everyone was joining the nWo! Eventually it wasn't really shocking or exciting seeing who was going to join the nWo, because it got to a point where it had happened so often and been watered down so much it was losing its meaning. By that time the real question was: who was left in WCW?

It got to the point where nWo seemed to far outweigh the WCW roster, and there were so few WCW guys to even stand up and fight against the nWo. So, because of that, the whole purpose of the angle was lost. They NEEDED the Four Horsemen. The Horsemen was the very foundation of WCW, the heart and soul of it, and that was important when you had this huge invading force trying to take over the company and change what it was. Kill its tradition and everything it had been before, and the Four Horsemen stood for those things more then anyone. You also should've had guys like Sting, Lex Luger, among many others who were key players in the history of WCW remain loyal and fight to save their company. Sting and Luger should NEVER have joined the nWo. Sting fought to kill it, to oppose everything it was, and then suddenly he joins nWo Wolfplac? Huh?

There needed to be a group representing WCW, simple as that, and the Horsemen were it. They were never utilized right during that angle, they were always pushed nowhere, and they were buried quickly when they did stand up to the nWo. That should not have happened. They could've made stars out of the Horsemen as faces while making stars out of the nWo as heels. They didn't.

When the nWo DID break apart into two factions it was already far too big and overcrowded. They should've used these two factions to cut the fat and get rid of a lot of talent that just didn't need to be in the nWo and didn't add anything to it.

NWO Hollywood should've represented Hollywood Hogan and his goals, and should've been the old stars who were still clinging to their spotlight and believing they made wrestling and deserved to rule it. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Ted Dibiase, even Curt Henning. The Steiner brothers would've been good here, for sure Scott Steiner as the second coming of Hogan. The Disciple would've fit here. They could still have had some young guys to flesh out their numbers and ones who fit and followed the ideology of Hollywood Hogan.. like Buff Bagwell and the Giant (who had been claimed to be Andre's son, anyway, at one time).

NWO Wolfpac should've been the younger stars, the present and future, who were bringing in the new generation's movement. That should've been led by Kevin Nash and Scott Hall without question. Syxx shouldve been there. And guys like Konnan, DDP, and others would've kept the Wolfpac the way it was, like a version of the Kliq.


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On another note: I think Eric Bischoff should NOT have joined the nWo. I really do. Or, at least, if he did it should've been much later. I really think they should've kept Ted Dibiase as the financial backer and really developed that and Dibiase in WCW. Dibiase is a legend! The guy clould've been so much more then he ever was in the nWo. He could've been exactly what Eric Bischoff became, but Ted Dibiase would've done it TEN times better. Dibiase had the money, could manipulate, and they could've played off him buying talent, buying titles, and trying to buy the network's loyalty to the nWo. Have him clashing with those in power of WCW and it would've been much more interesting. Not to mention the segments with Dibiase, and the promos he could've cut playing this role, would've been great.


Shit, when they finally did create a SECOND show, they could've made it into an angle where Ted Dibiase finally manipulated the Network into giving the nWo their own show. And then you could've really had two shows competing against one another, WCW and the nWo. And THEN have people jumping ship back and forth, have the two brands at war with one another over whose going to survive. Far better!

When Eric Bischoff joined the nWo, the angle jumped the shark.

I actually think Bischoff was a great addition to the group because it gave them an aura of invinceability that other great factions never had, the fact they guy running the company was pulling for them and protecting them. I remember his great promo where he forced the Steiners to vacate the Tag Titles to Outsiders, not too mention when he fired referree Randy Anderson in front of his wife and children. Stroke of genius having Anderson get his job back after Easy E lost his presidency to Flair and use him to ref the hair vs hair match pitting Flair's son David vs Eric allowing him to screw Bischoff out of the win.

I think the angle lost steam when the two groups split, especially since NWO Hollywood was headed by Hogan and he didn't work full time. I definately liked the "How can we beat these guys??" dynamic of having Bischoff backing them, and I think WCW wasted a goldmine worth of matches and money by not continuing the angle after Bischoff lost the presidency, have the group re-form and be more ruthless than ever but now you have your arch enemy in the Presidents seat pulling strings against you, not protecting you. Fans would have watched to see how the NWO would survive without that power, and WCW had a pretty good roster with Sting and Brett Hart soon returning from injuries, plus DDP and of course Flair.

I can tell you weren't actually watching WCW if you think DDP was undertilized during the Flock days and wasn't made a star until 1999. 1997 he turned super face by refusing to join the nWo and taking out Hall and Nash. He then had a high profile feud with Randy Savage, one of the biggest stars in the world that main evented a major ppv. He became the leader of "WCW" stepping in for Ric Flair to beat Curt Hennig for the US title after Flair was gone from the company for a short time. He went on to feud with Hogan over the summer, teaming with Karl Malone and Jay Leno in the two most hyped matches of the summer for WCW while Goldberg was busy defending the title in the undercard. He then went on to win War Games on the ppv where the Flock was disbanded. He then main evented Havoc with Goldberg, Goldberg's first REAL title defense on ppv. All this was before 1999.

I think you overrate what the Flock was though. This was a group of brainwashed lackeys. The group's entire purpose was to put over Raven. Why would you lower the standing of a guy like Bret Hart to put him in a mid-card stable like that? It's not about lack of creativity, it's about why would this particular "creative" idea actually produce something interesting for the character? The better idea for WCW was to put Bret Hart in a mid-card group with a bunch of no-names and Raven instead of drawing money off him in matches with Savage, Flair, Henning, Hogan (tag) etc?

Edit: By the way, mature up man. Just because I don't like your idea doesn't mean I'm pooping all over it or you. I definitely think things should have been done differently in WCW with Bret Hart and with the Flock, I just disagree with the idea you came up with.

You are dead on RE: DDP - he was languishing in the mid card in 95-96 but when he was the subject of NWO recruitment and turned them down, he got over real quick as a face. He definately had some major fueds with Savage and the whole Hogan/Karl Malone thing, heck the guy was all over mainstream media in 98!!. Now personally I never liked him, but he was definately a major player summer of 97. When he subbed for Flair at Starrcade in 97 Flair had a legitimate broken ankle, suffered in a match vs Hening at the previous PPV (he actually finished the match with a broken, ankle, suffering the injury early on when he atempts a flying axe handle on Hening from the top rope while Hening is on the arena floor). WCW continued to use Flair for interviews on Nitro leading up to Starrcade hoping he would recover enough for the match, when he didn't thwy booked him in a match vs Henning on Nitro but immediately had the NWO attack to "take him out" leading to DDP leading the charge to save him, that's how he got pushed into that match but he was already a main event caliber guy leading into that.