Anderson Silva; Champ or Chump?

[Marquis]

Yeah, which shows Anderson's takedown defense has gotten much better over the past couple of years.

I'm sure it does, but this fight was within the last three years, and after his destruction of Franklin. He did not look like a "monster" in this fight.

Maybe so, but my point was that it was very impressive that Silva would submit someone like that in the first place, when EVERYONE thought if it went to the ground Lutter would have him beat. Just shows how well rounded the guy is.

Well i don't know who everyone is, but apparently they didn't know Anderson held a black belt in BJJ.

That, and because it's a true statement.

Or because I am fair and rational.

Hardcore BJ fans would be arguing you right now that BJ is P4P the very best in the World and could take Fedor on in a fight, lol.

Yes, they would be arguing that right now. Along with that GSP cheated in their fight.

If anything, I will always admit that I'm biased towards Tito Ortiz and the Diaz brothers. Those are the guys where some of my views may be a bit blinded towards.

I try to be as unbiased as possible even with my favorite fighters, but sometimes i could get a bit with big Nog.

It will if he does it in dominating fashion. I mean, if Fedor wins a borefest, then that hurts him as much as a loss.

A wins a win in my book, but i wouldn't be surprised to see this one be what some people consider a "bore".

And I'm not sure who I'm rooting for. I really like Fedor and Barnett, but since my good friend's favorite fighter is Fedor and he's going to be there in person to see the fight... that makes me want to see Fedor win so Dev (my friend) will have a blast at the event.

Hes lucky to get to see this Affliction card in person. The card is stacked from top to bottom.

But at least Maia attacks. He wouldn't just stand back and fall on his butt like a little bitch every time Silva came towards me.

Attacking a fighter, and attacking a contender for p4p best is a completely different thing. When I see him fight Anderson and not drop I'll believe it.

Yeah, but you know... there will still be worthy opponents for him in that division. Tough opponents that people won't question the victory when Anderson defeats them.

Tough opponents? Sure, the top tier though? I doubt it. Again if he beats them that takes them out of title contention, which screws the UFC over since Anderson won't compete for the title.

Yes, I'm not saying Anderson would submit him, but he would definitely know how to get through the rounds without getting submitted.

Doesn't look like Anderson thought he could.

No, but all you have to do to realize that is watch the Cote fight. Cote has HORRIBLE Jiu-Jitsu and I'm sure Anderson knew that. But he wanted to bang with him, even though that was Cote's strong suit. He wanted a knockout, and I believe he wants that in EVERY fight, including the fight against Thales.

Did you actually think he wanted a knockout in that Cote fight? Look i understand he likes to feel out his opponents, but a portion of that fight was just them both circling each other and the occasional leg kick. Didn't seem like he was gunning for the knockout, now you're probably gonna say its because people need to come him right? Fair enough, but think about this. What if this has always been Anderson's style, the way he fights now, but it looked like he was a dominant KO machine because they came to him? Cote did come to him, but not charging in. In reality Cote although not landing much, was fighting a smart fight by not rushing at him. My theory is that Anderson has been fighting smart for awhile, and so will his opponents as they see more and more of Anderson.

We say shit we don't mean when we're emotional and angry about something. I'm sure Silva would take that back if he could.

Well until i hear him say it this what we have to go by. From a couple of Wandy interviews i heard hes always been like this really.

I disagree here, though. Cote and Thales last five wins probably weren't very impressive, but it's not like Arlovski's opponents were any better.

They were better for his divisions standards, also he beat all 5 of them in a dominating fashion. Can't say the same for Cote and Thales since Cote's last fight before Anderson was a split decision, and Thale's only win against top competition is a split decision which he would have lost if it wasn't for points taken.

I know Randy is small, but he's still very, very strong. Just look at the Tito Ortiz and Brock Lesnar fights. He was able to fucking MANHANDLE Tito for 5 rounds like he was nothing, and Tito Ortiz is a fucking strong motherfucker and a fantastic wrestler. And against Lesnar... he was able to stop a couple of takedowns from that behemoth, and also keep him up against the cage a few times as well. Randy's a strong, strong dude, man.

I won't deny hes not strong, but Fedor combines strength and technique with his throws. I honestly think Fedor is the one who would control Randy.

Maybe you're right, but let's see how Lesnar does against Mir. If Lesnar destroys Mir, then my opinion will be that he could do the same to Fedor.

Fair enough.

But I think if Fedor tries to get Anderson in the position to throw him around, then he'll end up in Silva's clinch and eat countless knees like Rich Franklin did. I just see no way Fedor could defeat Silva. No way, honestly.

Well that's your opinion, we could probably go back and forth non stop about this. You never know, the fight might actually happen one day. Fedor has no competition left outside of Barnett and Overeem, after that its either the UFC or cans.

That's only because he was training him. The opinion there was biased.

Alright fair enough, but BJ got out struck by George. So if Thiago out strikes him, then i hold to my opinion that BJ would get out struck by Alves.

Yeah I wouldn't say he's the best striker in MMA; that's Anderson Silva. But boxing... the guy is very, very good.

There's no denying hes good, i just feel his striking is a little too overrated.

I know you did, but it's not BJ's fault he hasn't been in the octagon against any strikers recently. But if you look at his history... there's reason to believe why he's such a great boxer.

History also tells me there's a reason to believe it isn't as polished.

As long as he still has the same training regimen, then I believe it can be.

I'm sure its in his training regimen, but it can't compare to an actual fight against a decent striker.

Definitely. Can't wait for that one. These next three months will answer a lot of fucking questions about the fighters in this sport, and could very well be the best three months in MMA history.

Indeed brother.

See I missread what you said, my bad. When you said, "all he really has to do his holding him up against the cage and put all his weight on BJ till he gasses" I read it too fast and thought you were talking about holding him on the ground. But yeah.. you're right, Alves could win a fight like that. He'd be a bitch for doing so though, lol.

A bit of a bitch move, but i would get a laugh out of seeing BJ gas.

 

[jmt225]

Well i don't know who everyone is, but apparently they didn't know Anderson held a black belt in BJJ.

Everyone is basically Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg, lol. They made it very clear in that fight that Anderson should keep it standing. And yes... they did mention Anderson's black belt, but still thought Lutter was far superior on the ground.

Or because I am fair and rational.

Oh you are, you are. But it's also because it's true.

A wins a win in my book, but i wouldn't be surprised to see this one be what some people consider a "bore".

I actually think the fight's going to be awesome.

Attacking a fighter, and attacking a contender for p4p best is a completely different thing. When I see him fight Anderson and not drop I'll believe it.

Same here, but I have faith in Maia not being a pussy.

Tough opponents? Sure, the top tier though? I doubt it. Again if he beats them that takes them out of title contention, which screws the UFC over since Anderson won't compete for the title.

Maybe so, but Anderson's not going to be there forever and the UFC needs as many exciting fights as possible while they can still cash in on his success.

Doesn't look like Anderson thought he could.

Not to me. It looked like to me he wanted Leites to stand his bitch ass up so he could knock him out.

Did you actually think he wanted a knockout in that Cote fight? Look i understand he likes to feel out his opponents, but a portion of that fight was just them both circling each other and the occasional leg kick. Didn't seem like he was gunning for the knockout, now you're probably gonna say its because people need to come him right? Fair enough, but think about this. What if this has always been Anderson's style, the way he fights now, but it looked like he was a dominant KO machine because they came to him? Cote did come to him, but not charging in. In reality Cote although not landing much, was fighting a smart fight by not rushing at him. My theory is that Anderson has been fighting smart for awhile, and so will his opponents as they see more and more of Anderson.

Anderson's a counter striker. He baits people in and then goes for the kill. He just doesn't attack like say the old Wanderlei Silva. Anderson's way more methodical than that. Just look at the Chris Leben fight. If Patrick pushes forward, which Silva was patiently waiting on, then he would've ended up like Chris Leben. End of story.

And as I talked about earlier with Brian... it's the challenger's job to push the fight, not the champion's.

Well until i hear him say it this what we have to go by. From a couple of Wandy interviews i heard hes always been like this really.

Well, if that's how Anderson really felt then we'd hear him talk like that more often. But that was just one case, after one terrible fight, so you have to take those words with a grain of salt.

And Wandy and Anderson are bitter rivals now, so you can't take Wandy's word on anything when he bad mouths Anderson, and vice versa.

They were better for his divisions standards, also he beat all 5 of them in a dominating fashion. Can't say the same for Cote and Thales since Cote's last fight before Anderson was a split decision, and Thale's only win against top competition is a split decision which he would have lost if it wasn't for points taken.

This is true, though I still feel Nelson got cheated out of his fight.

I won't deny hes not strong, but Fedor combines strength and technique with his throws. I honestly think Fedor is the one who would control Randy.

Well hopefully one day we can find out.

Well that's your opinion, we could probably go back and forth non stop about this. You never know, the fight might actually happen one day. Fedor has no competition left outside of Barnett and Overeem, after that its either the UFC or cans.

Agreed.

Alright fair enough, but BJ got out struck by George.

Georges outstruck BJ after gassing BJ out. He didn't strike much in the first couple of rounds in that fight. He waited until he wore BJ out. He knew better than to stand with him from the he start. He learned his lesson about that the first time they fought.

So if Thiago out strikes him, then i hold to my opinion that BJ would get out struck by Alves.

I don't think GSP will stand with Alves.

There's no denying hes good, i just feel his striking is a little too overrated.

It's just ever since his fight against Gomi, and seeing what's happen with Machida... even though that all happened 3 years ago, my respect remains intact for BJ there and won't go away until someone lays him out on the feet.

History also tells me there's a reason to believe it isn't as polished.

I'm sure its in his training regimen, but it can't compare to an actual fight against a decent striker.

Fair enough.

A bit of a bitch move, but i would get a laugh out of seeing BJ gas.

Well then you must've cracked up during his second fight against GSP, huh? lol

 

[Marquis]

Everyone is basically Joe Rogan and Mike Goldberg, lol. They made it very clear in that fight that Anderson should keep it standing. And yes... they did mention Anderson's black belt, but still thought Lutter was far superior on the ground.

Well his credentials would say he is, but pulling subs during a MMA fight is much different. I like to think BJJ for MMA is much different.

I actually think the fight's going to be awesome.

I could really picture the fight going down a Lay and pray route.

Maybe so, but Anderson's not going to be there forever and the UFC needs as many exciting fights as possible while they can still cash in on his success.

When the UFC decides to give him a exciting fight it will most likely be GSP. Because apparently hes retiring soon.

Not to me. It looked like to me he wanted Leites to stand his bitch ass up so he could knock him out.

Agree to disagree, although my opinion does hold a bit more substance with the interview.

Anderson's a counter striker. He baits people in and then goes for the kill. He just doesn't attack like say the old Wanderlei Silva. Anderson's way more methodical than that. Just look at the Chris Leben fight. If Patrick pushes forward, which Silva was patiently waiting on, then he would've ended up like Chris Leben. End of story.

Isn't that what i said in my post? I was just trying to point out hes always been that type of striker since joining the UFC, just now more are noticing it since his recent foes don't charge at him.

And as I talked about earlier with Brian... it's the challenger's job to push the fight, not the champion's.

And as i said in some other posts, maybe even in this thread. It depends on the situation. When you have someone like Thales with no name value and never gracing a main event, you think he would pass up a chance like this? So what if he doesn't win the title, or beats Anderson. He headlined a card, and increased his name value.

Well, if that's how Anderson really felt then we'd hear him talk like that more often. But that was just one case, after one terrible fight, so you have to take those words with a grain of salt.

I'm sure I've seen more articles where he states it, either that or they just took it out from the original one.

And Wandy and Anderson are bitter rivals now, so you can't take Wandy's word on anything when he bad mouths Anderson, and vice versa.

Rivals or not, i trust the mans word. I really can't think of a more humble and kind fighter then Waderlei, well besides Fedor.

This is true, though I still feel Nelson got cheated out of his fight.

I do too.

Georges outstruck BJ after gassing BJ out. He didn't strike much in the first couple of rounds in that fight. He waited until he wore BJ out. He knew better than to stand with him from the he start. He learned his lesson about that the first time they fought.

Aright he out struck him by wearing him out, why can't Thiago do the same? Thiago's cardio has yet to come into question, and recently beat Koscheck with a UD. BJ's cardio is always in question, especially at WW.

I don't think GSP will stand with Alves.

I don't think GSP will have much of a choice. Alves is just as big if not bigger then GSP, with decent takedown defense. Though i won't doubt GSP, the man that many consider has the the best wrestling in MMA.

Well then you must've cracked up during his second fight against GSP, huh? lol

O i did, especially when i saw him quit after all that "fight to the death" crap. I will give BJ credit though for being the pound 4 pound best fight hyper.

 

[jmt225]

Well his credentials would say he is, but pulling subs during a MMA fight is much different. I like to think BJJ for MMA is much different.

Yeah, but if you watched TUF 4, he showed throughout the show that he can submit people in MMA. Hell, it only took him like a few seconds to sub Patrick Cote when he got him on the ground in the Finale.

Isn't that what i said in my post? I was just trying to point out hes always been that type of striker since joining the UFC, just now more are noticing it since his recent foes don't charge at him.

I know, and I think the UFC will fix that by putting him in the octagon only against people who have something to prove and won't sit back and do nothing the entire fight.

And as i said in some other posts, maybe even in this thread. It depends on the situation. When you have someone like Thales with no name value and never gracing a main event, you think he would pass up a chance like this? So what if he doesn't win the title, or beats Anderson. He headlined a card, and increased his name value.

Yeah, but hopefully fighters learn from the reaction of that fight and that kind of shit will never happen again when Anderson Silva fights someone.

Aright he out struck him by wearing him out, why can't Thiago do the same? Thiago's cardio has yet to come into question, and recently beat Koscheck with a UD. BJ's cardio is always in question, especially at WW.

I guess Alves could do it, but I wouldn't picture him ever taking it to the ground and/or putting him up against the cage. He's too confident in his Muay Thai that it would be his downfall I would assume.

I don't think GSP will have much of a choice. Alves is just as big if not bigger then GSP, with decent takedown defense. Though i won't doubt GSP, the man that many consider has the the best wrestling in MMA.

Alves has shown good takedown defense against people smaller than him. He's never faced a beast as big and as athletic as Georges St. Pierre and I'm not sure he'll be able to handle the pressure. Also, the fact that he hasn't fought in so long might hurt him as well. Can't wait for this one, though.

O i did, especially when i saw him quit after all that "fight to the death" crap. I will give BJ credit though for being the pound 4 pound best fight hyper.

Well, even though I don't necesseraily agree with its message, I thought I'd show you this anyway since you'd obviously get a kick out of it. I must admit the shit is hilarious.

[youtube]tY6dj97sV6U[/youtube]​

 

[Marquis]

Yeah, but if you watched TUF 4, he showed throughout the show that he can submit people in MMA. Hell, it only took him like a few seconds to sub Patrick Cote when he got him on the ground in the Finale.

Well i really don't keep up with TUF, so i wasn't aware of this. The show gets pretty boring after awhile, but subbing Cote in a few seconds seems about right from Lutter. Considering that's not Cote's strong point, and i would imagine all the way back the on TUF it would be even less.

I guess Alves could do it, but I wouldn't picture him ever taking it to the ground and/or putting him up against the cage. He's too confident in his Muay Thai that it would be his downfall I would assume.

Clinching him against the cage is something i would imagine would go down in the fight. While he throws some knee's at him, BJ would get tired of getting pressed against the cage.

Alves has shown good takedown defense against people smaller than him. He's never faced a beast as big and as athletic as Georges St. Pierre and I'm not sure he'll be able to handle the pressure. Also, the fact that he hasn't fought in so long might hurt him as well. Can't wait for this one, though.

The thing is, i actually think Alves might be bigger then GSP. I have no actual proof of how big he is, but come fight night all these questions will be answered. We'll be able to see if hes bigger, if his takedown defense really is that good, and well hopefully where his stand up is at against someone like Georges.

Well, even though I don't necesseraily agree with its message, I thought I'd show you this anyway since you'd obviously get a kick out of it. I must admit the shit is hilarious.

I remember this video, still makes me chuckle. Especially the scene with his Mum at the NSAC meeting. They really need to make more episodes of that.

 

[andymcg]

Im really puting my head on a plate for you guys to chop up here but ..... I DONT like Anderson Silva one bit.

Im watched UFC for round about 1-2 years now, and everytime i see this guy i just dont see whats so spectacular about him ? Sure he can do some wild kicks and stuff but his fight againt Coute WTF ? Dont get me rong Coute done really well against him but FFS your a fighter ... you dont reach your hand out to help a guy up.

Then Letias (hard to spell), 2 or 3 connections in what 25 mins ? Fair enough Letias did keep going to the ground but for the guy whos ment to be "the best pound for pound fighter in the world", his last 2 fights have been nothing short of Brutal.

His fight with Griffon will really show what hes made off, If Griffon wins i think Ando Silva will have been proven he doesnt have what it takes to step up and should really get his camp sorted, if he wins then it will have to be in very good fashion to win alot of his fans back.