Anderson Silva; Champ or Chump?

[Minor League Brian]

There should be no doubt in anyones mind just how amazing Anderson Silva is...or maybe, was. That's what I question; is he still the best in the world? I'm sure his upcoming bout with Forrest Griffin will be a good indication of his abilities as of now, but you can only judge a fighter by his last fight, so lets do that shall we? For the record though, this is all my own personal view's on the matter, nothing substantial and I'm sure I could have my facts wrong so please correct me. I'll be using his last two fights; Silva/Leites and Silva/Cote as references.

First off; in his fight against Cote I'm apparently one of the few in the minority who thought Cote did extremely well, and had a very good chance of dethroning the champ, though of course; that had little to do with Cote being amazing and more to do with Silva just being very very...cocky. Thinking back (as I have no video evidence) Silva was very cocky, dancing around the ring, and merely 'playing' with Cote, showing no real class, and if it wasn't for Cote blowing his knee out in the 3rd, I honestly could have seen a possibility for Cote to win by split decision.

Doesn't explain why I don't think so highly of Silva now? Well, on to the next fight.

Silva/Leites was probably one of the worst fights in UFC history, well...entertainment wise. Dana White even apologized to those in attendance, and because of this Silva got his match against Griffin at 101 so I can't say it was a total loss, but in this fight once again Silva was not what you'd expect him to be. Now, as J said earlier (as his logic is completely sound) “The Challenger has to beat the champion; the champion doesn't have to beat the challenger”. Silva was afraid to take it to the ground, and was visually disgruntled whenever Leites tried to do just that. I for one think Silva feared Leites on the ground, but then again; that is Thales' domain.

This is a very hard topic to argue, or even talk about, because yes; Anderson Silva is an immense talent and is capable of some amazing things, but I think recently he's begun to buy into his own hype, and has become far to cocky. I'm not trying to say the man is terrible and the worse MMA fighter ever, but I for one cannot stand and call him the best pound for pound fighter in the world, as his last few fights have just not shown that to me. Maybe he's losing it, or maybe he's just getting too full of himself. I for one hope Griffin knocks him on his ass; just to knock some sense into him.

 

[jmt225]

There should be no doubt in anyones mind just how amazing Anderson Silva is...or maybe, was. That's what I question; is he still the best in the world?

Yes. Well, at least right up there with Georges St. Pierre. And the reason I think that is, no matter how Anderson Silva's last two fights went, there still hasn't been anyone in nearly five years show that they can defeat this man.

Patrick Cote, I was disappointed in when he fought Silva. I had high, high hopes for that fight because Cote had shown before then to be a very exciting fighter and one who loves to stand-up and bang. I thought with Cote's size being close to Silva's, and the fact that Cote's such a powerful puncher, that he was going to come out with full force and try and knock Silva's fucking head off. Unfortunately, he didn't, and you know what? I'm sure he regrets it. You will not defeat Anderson Silva by being chicken shit. When you're as quick, big, and powerful as Cote is, you have to come out and lay it all on the line. And since he didn't, he lost the first two rounds, and then, unfortunately, injured his leg.

Thales Leites, on the other hand, was just a bad match-up from the get-go. The guy's no Damien Maia. I mean, they have very similar strengths, but the difference is that Maia attacks to get it to the ground, whereas Thales Leites plays it cautious and just waits for his opponent to go for the takedown, which Silva obviously was never going to do. And as good as Silva is on the ground, he wanted nothing to do with Thales Leites' ground game, which is why he wouldn't attack. If he would've attacked, then all Leiter would've done was dodge and pull guard, thus putting Silva in a terrible position for himself. It was just too risky for Silva to attack, which brings me to my ultimate point: It is not the champion’s job to take the risk; it’s the challenger’s.

To quote Bobby Heean as I did in the other thread: The challenger has to beat the champion; the champion does not need to beat the challenger. And to me, that counts for everything in sports. The only job the champion ever has is finding a way to keep his or her title. That's it. A challenger, on the other hand, has way more on their plate. Not only do they have to find away to take the belt from the very best in their division, but they also have to make the fight worth watching. It's their job to attack. They're the ones in the corner, not the champion. The champion has a bull’s-eye on his back at all times, and when you get a shot at that bull’s-eye, you have to take full advantage of it. And Anderson's Silva's last two opponents did not do that, and that's not Anderson's fault. Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, Travis Lutter, ect. all went for that bull’s-eye full force. Did they come up short? Yes, and that's because Anderson Silva is the very best Middleweight in the World, currently. But at least those guys can leave the building with their head's up high knowing they gave it their all.

The point is, you put Silva in the Octagon against someone who actually WANTS to fight him, then you're going to witness one exciting fight, and you're going to witness just why Anderson Silva is on a whole other planet when it comes to being a Mixed Martial Artist.

 

[Marquis]

I really don't even know how this can even come in to question. Is he the best in the world? Hell no, that is Fedor. Is he one of the best? Without a doubt. What some people have to fuckin understand is that he has a legacy to uphold. He is tied for most UFC title defenses with Hughes and Ortiz, and is currently the holder of most consecutive wins in the UFC. He doesn't fight to entertain us, which was made clear by his interview after the Thales fight. Hes not risking his status as one of the premier fighters in the sports, while holding two important records to satisfy us. His job is to go in there and win. Not go out there and entertain.

And would you mind explaining to me how you thought Cote did well Brian? I would love to hear this. Considering Cotes only takedown was nullified, and most of his strikes did not land. While Anderson was picking him apart with damn good accuracy with more then 50% of his strikes landing. Here i even have the stats to prove it.

Explanation if you need one.

As for the Thales fight i simply saw it as neither wanting to fight where the other had the advantage. Anderson wanted it on the feet, Thales wanted it on the ground. Both wanted to stick to where they had the advantage. You can say as the challenger it was Thales's job to chase Anderson since he wanted the title, but really what proof do we have that Thales wanted the shot? If someone can find a interview of him wanting one before being approached, cool. But prior to that do you think he expected a title shot? Out of his four fights prior to fighting Anderson his only notable win was Marquardt. Which he only beat by SPLIT decision. Thales would have lost probably if Marquardt didn't lose two points in the fight. So i think its fair to think Thales in no way expected this shot, so therefore probably just took the fight since it was a smart move. Win or lose he headlines a card against the a top p4p best in the world. Gets great exposure, seems like a smart move to me. I really don't think he was there to win that night. Maybe he gave it a try at first, but slowly after gave up.

 

[Minor League Brian]

How many punches did he throw, Raiden? He was dancing around half the time, acting like a jackass. Numbers don't tell you anything, in watching it I was just waiting for Cote to get a lucky hit and drop Silva.

My point also wasn't that Cote was GOING to win, I said I thought he had a chance simply because of Silva's own arrogance. In my opinion, he's full of himself now, buying into his own hype, and its only a matter of time before he gets caught. I don't care how good he's supposed to be; everyone gets caught.

 

[Marquis]

How many punches did he throw, Raiden? He was dancing around half the time, acting like a jackass. Numbers don't tell you anything, in watching it I was just waiting for Cote to get a lucky hit and drop Silva.

My point also wasn't that Cote was GOING to win, I said I thought he had a chance simply because of Silva's own arrogance. In my opinion, he's full of himself now, buying into his own hype, and its only a matter of time before he gets caught. I don't care how good he's supposed to be; everyone gets caught.

Dancing around half the time? He was feeling him at for most of the first round, its what he does. Dancing around for half of the time is a exaggeration, and number don't tell you anything? They fuckin tell you how how one sided the striking was.

I was arguing the fact that you thought he was doing extremely well, not if he had a chance of winning.

Also you wanted to know how many strikes he landed? Well just for you, since obviously you don't do it yourself. I will rewatch and count every punch and kick thrown by Anderson.

 

[Minor League Brian]

Dancing around half the time? He was feeling him at for most of the first round, its what he does. Dancing around for half of the time is a exaggeration, and number don't tell you anything? They fuckin tell you how how one sided the striking was.

Dude...there was one point where he was doing the shuffle in the match, and one of the taunts in the UFC video game. He was dancing around, and acting extremely arrogant.

I was arguing the fact that you thought he was doing extremely well, not if he had a chance of winning.

Visually, to me he was.

Also you wanted to know how many strikes he landed? Well just for you, since obviously you don't do it yourself. I will rewatch and count every punch and kick thrown by Anderson.

What the hell is with the hostility? Obviously if they can create a detailed score card like that, they have the stats somewhere. If you found that, then it should be on the same page. How else could they do such ratings, hmmm?

 

[Marquis]

Dude...there was one point where he was doing the shuffle in the match, and one of the taunts in the UFC video game. He was dancing around, and acting extremely arrogant.

I never said he didn't dance, only that doing it for half of the fight is a exaggeration.

Visually, to me he was.



What the hell is with the hostility? Obviously if they can create a detailed score card like that, they have the stats somewhere. If you found that, then it should be on the same page. How else could they do such ratings, hmmm?

Check yourself, fight metric. They don't list the strikes for this fight, thus why i will do it. I would link, but don't wanna risk breaking any rules. And no hostility on my part, mostly sarcasm.

 

[Minor League Brian]

I never said he didn't dance, only that doing it for half of the fight is a exaggeration.

Errr...I'd say so. He never seemed into it, and even when Cote was injured he seemed like he wanted to be elsewhere. He was putting on a show in all the wrong aspects.

Check yourself, fight metric. They don't list the strikes for this fight, thus why i will do it. I would link, but don't wanna risk breaking any rules. And no hostility on my part, mostly sarcasm.

That's moronic. How can anyone say those stats are legit if they don't put up the actual numbers. Anyway, there's no need. Its more to see how much Silva did punch, cause I mean if he only threw 10 punches and connected with 7 or 6, he'd have good averages but still be terrible.

 

[Marquis]

Errr...I'd say so. He never seemed into it, and even when Cote was injured he seemed like he wanted to be elsewhere. He was putting on a show in all the wrong aspects.

Dancing:
1:00- 0:40 of the first round.

After re watching the fight it was the only dancing i saw.

That's moronic. How can anyone say those stats are legit if they don't put up the actual numbers. Anyway, there's no need. Its more to see how much Silva did punch, cause I mean if he only threw 10 punches and connected with 7 or 6, he'd have good averages but still be terrible.

I sent you the site, look at their other stats where do they list number of strikes. Its very accurate. That's why i trusted their analysis of how accurate he was.

By my count after just rewatching Anderson landed a combined 30 strikes. This was counting punches, kick, knees, and elbows.

Cote landed a total of 13 strikes counting punches, kicks, knees, and elbows.

Anderson landed a takedown, Cote did not.

I did not count number of missed shots. And by the looks of the fight Anderson's strikes landed the more damage, his kicks had a lot more power behind them.

 

[Minor League Brian]

Well, I'm not going to go back and rewatch it to pick it apart like that so I'll just tip my hat to you on that.

The original point still remains though; Silva is not the best in the world (as you said, that is Fedor), but he's pushed as such and why? His last few fights certainly have not been the caliber of "The Best", hell I bet even a loss to Griffin wouldn't knock some sense into him as he's fighting up. I'm just tired of all the commotion over a guy who's gifted, but not the best.

 

[Marquis]

The original point still remains though; Silva is not the best in the world (as you said, that is Fedor), but he's pushed as such and why? His last few fights certainly have not been the caliber of "The Best", hell I bet even a loss to Griffin wouldn't knock some sense into him as he's fighting up. I'm just tired of all the commotion over a guy who's gifted, but not the best.

I understand how you feel. The feeling is mutual, but until Fedor signs with the UFC Anderson will be pushed as the top fighter on the planet. The UFC is the 800-pound gorilla, casuals will buy into what they say. The press will buy into what they say. The UFC is not gonna push Fedor as the top fighter on the planet, it would be a stupid business move. They'll push Anderson as the p4p best and try to milk it as much as they can.

As for his last two fights, like i said in my earlier post, i just see it as him playing safe. Maybe too safe, but the guy doesn't want to risk his career. I really can't hold anything against him for that.

 

[jmt225]

Do you guys really believe Fedor Emelianenko is as good as Anderson Silva? I mean, really? Like, if they had a fight today, you think Fedor would actually defeat that monster?

Listen, I'm a big Fedor fan, but what has he done to prove he's the absolute best in the World? That claim had some merit to it in 2005, but today, in my opinion, it doesn't hold water. Fedor just hasn't beaten anybody recently to be able to say he's the best in the World. Not since Cro Cop in 2005 has he had a worthy opponent, in my opinion. Zuluzinho looked like he was worth a shit at the time he fought Fedor, but since then... his true colors have been exposed. Mark Coleman, I don't need to explain because everyone knows he sucks and way past his prime. Mark Hunt, well he use to be good, but by the time he fought Fedor, he was already on the downslide and what's funny, he almost had Fedor beaten in that fight. Matt Lindland was way past his prime by the time he fought Fedor. Hong-Man Choi sucks. Tim Sylvia sucks (that Ray Mercer deal was an embarrassment to the entire sport). And Andrei Arlovski has no chin whatsoever.

Now, if Fedor dominates Barnett, okay... I'll, like I did in 2005/before, start buying into Fedor's hype again. But until that fight, I don't think anyone can justifiably claim Fedor's the best in the World. Top 3 I'll bite, but the absolute best? No, that title belongs to either Anderson Silva or Georges St. Pierre.

 

[Marquis]

Do you guys really believe Fedor Emelianenko is as good as Anderson Silva? I mean, really? Like, if they had a fight today, you think Fedor would actually defeat that monster?

You mean the same monster that was scared to go into Thales's guard, while Fedor had no problem jumping into big Nog's in his prime? Sure do.


Funny, lets look how many notable wins these two hold.

Anderson Silva

Franklin x2
Henderson
Marquardt

Fedor

Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira x2
CroCop
Arlovski
Sylvia
Mark Hunt( When Fedor fought him he was onl 5-2, which was a good record considering two of those five wins were from Wanderlei and CroCop)
Zuluzinho(undefeated when Fedor beat him)
Randleman
Lindland

Quite the list Fedor has compared to Anderson. Fedor beat Nogueira not once, but twice when Nogueira was in his prime. He beat ranked 1st or 2nd HW at the time Mirko Crocop. He beat former UFC champion Arlovski who was on a 5 fight win streak and ranked 2nd HW in the world at the time. He beat former two time UFC champion Tim Sylvia before he became a joke. He beat Mark hunt who was 5-2 at the time with wins over Wanderlei and CroCop. Zuluzinho was 15-0 when Fedor beat him. Randleman was coming off the biggest win in his career with beating CroCop when Fedor beated him. I really don't know how you considered Lindland past his prime during that time when only 7 months prior to his fight with Fedor he took Rampage to a split decision, and was on a two fight win streak.

Listen, I'm a big Fedor fan, but what has he done to prove he's the absolute best in the World? That claim had some merit to it in 2005, but today, in my opinion, it doesn't hold water. Fedor just hasn't beaten anybody recently to be able to say he's the best in the World

So you consider former UFC HW champion, ranked second in the world at the time, Arlovski a nobody? When Fedor beat him?. Tim Sylvia former two time UFC champion a nobody? Don't think so. These two may be on slumps now, but they sure as hell weren't when Fedor beat them.

Now Anderson's last two opponents are the real nobodies. Thales Leites, i like the guy, but he was on a 4 fight win streak with his only notable win being Marquardt when Anderson fought him. And he would have lost to Marquardt if Marquardt did not cost himself two points, and despite losing those two point he only managed to beat him via SPLIT decision. Sure as hell doesn't seem like top competition. Patrick Cote, what's his most notable win? Kendall Grove? Golly, not Kendall Grove! And he was coming off a split decision from Almeida when he fought Anderson. I guess beating Almeida to a split decision earns you a title shot.

So let me see, comparing last two opponents we have Fedor's wins over Arlovski and Sylvia which he finished both in a convincing fashion.

Or we have Anderson's decision victory against Thales, and his win over Cote who got injured.

Yeah, I'll take Fedor for p4p best over Anderson any day.

And George really? p4p best? I wasn't aware two wins over BJ, two wins over Hughes, one of them being when he was past his prime in my opinion. Fitch, Koscheck, and Serra throws you into p4p best consideration. Maybe if he beats Thiago i would consider it, but til then No.

 

[jmt225]

You mean the same monster that was scared to go into Thales's guard, while Fedor had no problem jumping into big Nog's in his prime? Sure do.

Oh Nog, the same person who gave Anderson Silva his black belt in Jiu-Jitsu?

And yeah... Silva was scared, not smart, huh?

Funny, lets look how many notable wins these two hold.

Okay, let's do that.

Anderson Silva

Franklin x2

One of the best fighters in the World.

Henderson

Great fighter.

Marquardt

Great fighter.

And the thing is, not only did Anderson Silva beat these people, but he did so decisively and before the 3rd Round.

Fedor

Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira x2

Great fighter, but was Fedor able to finish him in either of those two fights?

CroCop

Great fighter at the time, but was Fedor able to finish him?

And Marquis man, these fights against Nog and Cro Cop shouldn't have even been brought up because I said around this time that Fedor was indeed Pound 4 Pound the very best in the World. I'm arguing since the Cro Cop fight that he hasn't done anything to show that he still deserves that rank.

Arlovski

No chin, nothing to brag about defeating. What skilled fighter has Arlovski ever defeated?

Sylvia

Sylvia fucking blows man and there's no arguing it. Just look at his fight against Mercer.

Mark Hunt( When Fedor fought him he was onl 5-2, which was a good record considering two of those five wins were from Wanderlei and CroCop)

Like I said, Mark Hunt was already on a downslide by the time he fought Fedor. In his last five fights he's been finished off in the 1st round. How is defeating someone like that something worthy of bragging about?

Zuluzinho(undefeated when Fedor beat him)

Undefeated, but who exactly did he ever defeat worth a shit?

Randleman

This... was impressive. I plan posting this fight in the "Greatest fights of all time" thread. But still... Randleman doesn't match-up against the three names you listed that Anderson Silva defeated. And besides, this is another fight that shouldn't have been brought up since it happened all the way back in 2004.

Lindland

A Middleweight past his prime.

Quite the list Fedor has compared to Anderson.

Not really, my friend.

Fedor beat Nogueira not once, but twice when Nogueira was in his prime.

And as I said, those are impressive victories, but for one, they shouldn't have been broughten up; however, since you did, I'll still make this point... I hate to take anything away from those victories, but was Fedor able to finish him off? The answer is no. He had two fights against Nog and could not put the man away. Mir was able to as you kept pointing out in our last debate, but the fact remains... Fedor wasn't.

He beat ranked 1st or 2nd HW at the time Mirko Crocop.

Impressive, and like I said about Nog, I hate to take anything away from it, but Fedor could not finish him off. If Fedor was as great as everyone makes him out to be, then he would be able to beat these guys without relying on the judges. You put Anderson Silva in the ring/octagon against someone who presses forward and not fight like a little bitch, then it's guaranteed it he will finish that person off. Guaranteed. You can't say the same thing about Fedor.

He beat former UFC champion Arlovski who was on a 5 fight win streak and ranked 2nd HW in the world at the time.

5 fight win streak against WHO? The only person worth a damn out of those five fighters was Werdum. Everyone else was shit.

And you and me both know those ratings systems are crap, Marquis.

He beat former two time UFC champion Tim Sylvia before he became a joke.

Tim Sylvia has always been a joke. With the exception of Ricco Rodriguez, Sylvia doesn't have one impressive victory under his name as far as I'm concerned. He's always been a hack. Always.

He beat Mark hunt who was 5-2 at the time with wins over Wanderlei and CroCop.

Yeah, and also by that time, got his ass handed to him by Josh Barnett. And those were split decision wins against Silva and Cro Cop... not impressed.

Zuluzinho was 15-0 when Fedor beat him.

And out of those 15 wins, please name one who was worth a damn?

Randleman was coming off the biggest win in his career with beating CroCop when Fedor beated him.

I give Fedor credit for this one. But like I said... it happened all the way back in 2004, so it's irrelevant.

I really don't know how you considered Lindland past his prime during that time when only 7 months prior to his fight with Fedor he took Rampage to a split decision, and was on a two fight win streak.

Well, first of all, Matt Lindland was basically a Middleweight. And a Heavyweight defeating a Middleweight does not impress me unless that Middleweight is somebody like Anderson Silva.

But as far as him being past his prime... he was. Lindland was in his upper 30's by that fight. Not everyone ages like Randy Couture. And Lindland's fight against Belfort shows he's not what he use to be.

So you consider former UFC HW champion, ranked second in the world at the time, Arlovski a nobody? When Fedor beat him?. Tim Sylvia former two time UFC champion a nobody?

Yes and yes.

These two may be on slumps now, but they sure as hell weren't when Fedor beat them.

Yes they were. It's not like there's a ten year gap between the fights.

First of all, they were overrated hacks to begin with because neither of them ever defeated truly great fighters in either of their careers. Secondly, even if you do think they were awesome before the Fedor fight and are just not the same now... that's just false. How can someone go to awesome to crap THAT quickly, especially when those guys are as young as they are?

Now Anderson's last two opponents are the real nobodies. Thales Leites, i like the guy, but he was on a 4 fight win streak with his only notable win being Marquardt when Anderson fought him. And he would have lost to Marquardt if Marquardt did not cost himself two points, and despite losing those two point he only managed to beat him via SPLIT decision. Sure as hell doesn't seem like top competition. Patrick Cote, what's his most notable win? Kendall Grove? Golly, not Kendall Grove! And he was coming off a split decision from Almeida when he fought Anderson. I guess beating Almeida to a split decision earns you a title shot.

Hey... I'm not going to sit here and try and convince you that defeating Thales Leites and Patrick Cote in the manner Silva did is anything to brag about. I'm not ******ed, lol. But what I will say is that Silva's wins prior to that is more impressive then anything we've ever seen out of Fedor in the past 4 years. And I think now that Silva is going to get in there again with someone like Forrest Griffin... he'll be able to get back to the Silva we know and love, and prove me to be right about what I'm claiming. And hell... Josh Barnett might prove me right, too.

So let me see, comparing last two opponents we have Fedor's wins over Arlovski and Sylvia which he finished both in a convincing fashion.

Dude, Arlovski and Sylvia suck way more then Leites and Cote do, pound 4 pound, especially Sylvia. I guarantee Leites and Cote would put up a better fight against Ray Mercer then that bum Sylvia did.

Yeah, I'll take Fedor for p4p best over Anderson any day.

Well let's just see how the month of August goes.

And George really? p4p best?

Yes.

I wasn't aware two wins over BJ,

Also P4P one of the best in the World. The last person to truly give Machida a run for his money.

two wins over Hughes,

Two impressive wins over Hughes.

one of them being when he was past his prime in my opinion.

Maybe so, but it was still a great win nonetheless, and P4P Hughes is still tougher competition then those bums Fedor last beat.

Fitch

Come on now, man. Don't fucking take anything away from Jon Fitch. That guy is truly a tremendous fighter and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Koscheck

Koscheck is a decent fighter, but yeah... a win over him isn't something to brag about.

Serra

I love Matt Serra, but yeah... he's no where near GSP's league.

throws you into p4p best consideration.

The thing you forgot to mention though is that GSP fucking DOMINATED every single one of these fights. Absolutely dominated.

Maybe if he beats Thiago i would consider it, but til then No.

He will, and when he does, I'll hold you up to this. Just like you can if Fedor destroys Bartnett like he did Sylvia and Arvolski. Like I said... that's when I'll truly buy into the hype, because not since 2005 has Fedor done anything for me to believe he's still Pound 4 Pound the best in the World.

 

[Marquis]

Oh Nog, the same person who gave Anderson Silva his black belt in Jiu-Jitsu?
And yeah... Silva was scared, not smart, huh?

I don't see what this has to do with what i said. I said it was smart, but you called him a "monster". Didn't seem like a monster to me in that fight at all.

One of the best fighters in the World.

agreed

Great fighter.

agreed

Great fighter.

agreed

And the thing is, not only did Anderson Silva beat these people, but he did so decisively and before the 3rd Round.

Fedor beat his last two opponents decisively as well. Along with Randleman, Zuluzinho, and Lindland.

Great fighter, but was Fedor able to finish him in either of those two fights?

Really? So we're gonna downgrade a win over Nogueira just because he couldn't finish him in his prime? No one was able to finish him in his prime, no one.

Great fighter at the time, but was Fedor able to finish him?

Can't argue with this one, but this does show why he was ranked either 1st or 2nd at the time if Fedor couldn't finish him. Unlike Anderson not being able to finish low ranked opponents.

And Marquis man, these fights against Nog and Cro Cop shouldn't have even been brought up because I said around this time that Fedor was indeed Pound 4 Pound the very best in the World. I'm arguing since the Cro Cop fight that he hasn't done anything to show that he still deserves that rank.

I disagree.

No chin, nothing to brag about defeating. What skilled fighter has Arlovski ever defeated?

Buentello, Rothwell, Werdum, and Nelson if you want to be generous.

Sylvia fucking blows man and there's no arguing it. Just look at his fight against Mercer.

Again, before his fight with Mercer.

Like I said, Mark Hunt was already on a downslide by the time he fought Fedor. In his last five fights he's been finished off in the 1st round. How is defeating someone like that something worthy of bragging about?

So you knew at that exact time he was fighting Fedor, coming off a lost to Barnett he was on the downside of his career?

Undefeated, but who exactly did he ever defeat worth a shit?

Nobody, but being undefeated and that big still made him a threat. I'm not sure about his exact weight in that fight, but he probably had at least 100 pounds or more over Fedor.

This... was impressive. I plan posting this fight in the "Greatest fights of all time" thread. But still... Randleman doesn't match-up against the three names you listed that Anderson Silva defeated. And besides, this is another fight that shouldn't have been brought up since it happened all the way back in 2004.

Fair enough.

A Middleweight past his prime.

When i see him go on a losing streak I'll say hes past his prime.

Not really, my friend.

Comparing fighter record side by side? Yes my friend, i think so.

And as I said, those are impressive victories, but for one, they shouldn't have been broughten up; however, since you did, I'll still make this point... I hate to take anything away from those victories, but was Fedor able to finish him off? The answer is no. He had two fights against Nog and could not put the man away. Mir was able to as you kept pointing out in our last debate, but the fact remains... Fedor wasn't.

I kept pointing it out, but i also said in my post that he can't take a beating like he used to in pride. And again, why downgrade the wins? Because he couldn't finish Nog in his prime? Really? Have you seen the beatdown Fedor gave him? The headkick he took from CroCop and still came back to win? A headkick from Herring and still won? A piledriver from Sapp? The man was impossible to finish in his prime, nothing should be taken away from Fedor's wins.

Impressive, and like I said about Nog, I hate to take anything away from it, but Fedor could not finish him off. If Fedor was as great as everyone makes him out to be, then he would be able to beat these guys without relying on the judges. You put Anderson Silva in the ring/octagon against someone who presses forward and not fight like a little bitch, then it's guaranteed it he will finish that person off. Guaranteed. You can't say the same thing about Fedor.

Read my post above.

5 fight win streak against WHO? The only person worth a damn out of those five fighters was Werdum. Everyone else was shit.

Buentello, Rothwell, Werdum, and Nelson if you want to be generous.

And you and me both know those ratings systems are crap, Marquis.

Well then tell me who else would you have ranked second at the time? Mir? The argument could be made for him, but who else? Barnett got his 4th win in a row that night over Yvel, so who else would have been ranked second? There is nobody else. Fedor has cleared out the division outside of a select few such as Mir. He fought the second best in the world at the time, not his fault who's on there. Point is he fights top competition.

Tim Sylvia has always been a joke. With the exception of Ricco Rodriguez, Sylvia doesn't have one impressive victory under his name as far as I'm concerned. He's always been a hack. Always.

Right, two time holder of the UFC HW championship, real hack he was back then. Look i won't stand here and call him a top HW, but he is no hack. Now he is, but not when Fedor fought him.

Yeah, and also by that time, got his ass handed to him by Josh Barnett. And those were split decision wins against Silva and Cro Cop... not impressed.

Split decisions over probably number one MW at the time Wanderlei Silva, and Mirko CroCop with only having two fights under his belt is impressive.

And out of those 15 wins, please name one who was worth a damn?

I explained earlier.

I give Fedor credit for this one. But like I said... it happened all the way back in 2004, so it's irrelevant.

Alright

Well, first of all, Matt Lindland was basically a Middleweight. And a Heavyweight defeating a Middleweight does not impress me unless that Middleweight is somebody like Anderson Silva.

Fair enough, but Fedor ain't a huge HW.

But as far as him being past his prime... he was. Lindland was in his upper 30's by that fight. Not everyone ages like Randy Couture. And Lindland's fight against Belfort shows he's not what he use to be.

Really? Getting knocked out by someone with the hand speed of Belfort shows you're out of your prime? Lindland is 39. You know who else is 39? Henderson, seems to be doing fine.

First of all, they were overrated hacks to begin with because neither of them ever defeated truly great fighters in either of their careers. Secondly, even if you do think they were awesome before the Fedor fight and are just not the same now... that's just false. How can someone go to awesome to crap THAT quickly, especially when those guys are as young as they are?

Arlovski is not crap, hes just become hesitant. Have you seen his fight with Rogers? Moved back, hands down, no head movement, moving backwards in a straight line. For Arlovski its just a mental thing.

As for Sylvia, I've never been a fan of his, but that lost wouldn't have happened if Sylvia wasn't stupid. Its a MMA fight, he decides to throw a low kick, which he agreed not to might i add, and payed for it with a punch from a over his prime boxer, but still deadly.

Hey... I'm not going to sit here and try and convince you that defeating Thales Leites and Patrick Cote in the manner Silva did is anything to brag about. I'm not ******ed, lol. But what I will say is that Silva's wins prior to that is more impressive then anything we've ever seen out of Fedor in the past 4 years. And I think now that Silva is going to get in there again with someone like Forrest Griffin... he'll be able to get back to the Silva we know and love, and prove me to be right about what I'm claiming. And hell... Josh Barnett might prove me right, too.

So Anderon's wins that i listed compared to CroCop, Arlovski, Hunt, Lindland, and Sylvia are more impressive? Subjective, but then again i do hold CroCop in high regard.

Dude, Arlovski and Sylvia suck way more then Leites and Cote do, pound 4 pound, especially Sylvia. I guarantee Leites and Cote would put up a better fight against Ray Mercer then that bum Sylvia did.

Wow, you really do have some hate towards Arlovski to say that. As for Syliva, yeah they probably would do better against Mercer since they wouldn't be stupid enough to stand with him.

Well let's just see how the month of August goes.

Fair enough.

Also P4P one of the best in the World. The last person to truly give Machida a run for his money.

It was Machida's 6th fight, I'm sure hes grown since then.

Two impressive wins over Hughes.

One in my eyes, the other was when i consider him past his prime.

Maybe so, but it was still a great win nonetheless, and P4P Hughes is still tougher competition then those bums Fedor last beat.

Again, really do hate Arlovski don't you?

Come on now, man. Don't fucking take anything away from Jon Fitch. That guy is truly a tremendous fighter and I'm pretty sure you know that.

I'm not, i think Fitch is a great fighter and i would say this was a great win for GSP.

Koscheck is a decent fighter, but yeah... a win over him isn't something to brag about.

Exactly

I love Matt Serra, but yeah... he's no where near GSP's league.

I love Serra for also being from NY and all, but hes no where near the league of the top tier of the WW division.

The thing you forgot to mention though is that GSP fucking DOMINATED every single one of these fights. Absolutely dominated.

Sure did, but we already discredited one of the Hughes, Serra, and Koscheck. So that leaves him dominating Fitch, Hughes once, and BJ twice. Considering BJ was fighting way above his natural weight class and is 2-3 at WW. With his only notable win being Hughes, which Hughes later avenged. So yeah a 2-3 BJ with his only wins being Hughes and Ludwig at WW should not be much of a win at WW. At LW a win over BJ means something, at WW? Don't think so.

He will, and when he does, I'll hold you up to this. Just like you can if Fedor destroys Bartnett like he did Sylvia and Arvolski. Like I said... that's when I'll truly buy into the hype, because not since 2005 has Fedor done anything for me to believe he's still Pound 4 Pound the best in the World.

Fair enough.

 

[jmt225]

I don't see what this has to do with what i said. I said it was smart, but you called him a "monster". Didn't seem like a monster to me in that fight at all.

Silva IS a monster. He was just chasing a couple of bitches who he couldn't catch when they hid under the bed.

Fedor beat his last two opponents decisively as well.

Two bums, lol.

Along with Randleman, Zuluzinho, and Lindland.

Two of those fights happened forever ago. And even if you don't want to agree with me when I say Lindland is past his prime, if you can discredit GSP's wins over BJ because BJ went up a weight class, then I can discredit Fedor's win over Lindland since Lindland is a natural Middleweight.

Really? So we're gonna downgrade a win over Nogueira just because he couldn't finish him in his prime? No one was able to finish him in his prime, no one.

I didn't mean to downgrade it, but not being able to finish someone off does count against you somewhat in a case like this.

Plus, I still don't think these fights should've been broughten up. They happened over 5 years ago.

Can't argue with this one, but this does show why he was ranked either 1st or 2nd at the time if Fedor couldn't finish him.

I agree Cro Cop was hot shit back then. Hell, in my first post about Fedor, I said his last great win was against Cro Cop. And that since THAT time, he hasn't done anything worthy enough for people to claim he's Pound 4 Pound the best fighter in the World, which is why I don't like the fight against Cro Cop and the fights against Nog being brought up.

Unlike Anderson not being able to finish low ranked opponents.

Put Fedor in there with two *****es who constantly run away and pull guard and see him finish them off; the latter being a black belt and one of the absolute best in the World in Bazillion Jiu-Jitsu.

Buentello, Rothwell, Werdum, and Nelson if you want to be generous.

Rothwell's never defeated anyone worth a damn. Buentello's okay, but still... not impressed. And Nelson is a TUFer as we speak, one who perhaps would've defeated Arlovski if the ref didn't blatantly cheat in that fight by standing the fighters up when Nelson had Arlovski in side control.

Again, before his fight with Mercer.

Dude, there was an 11 month gap between those fights. How does someone get that terrible in just 11 months? No, Sylvia was terrible when he fought Fedor, too. All you have to do to defeat that moron is attack, and Fedor, to his credit unlike the rest of the *****es, like Arloski, did just that and Sylvia got his ass handed to him like he would if he were in there with any decent Heavyweight.

So you knew at that exact time he was fighting Fedor, coming off a lost to Barnett he was on the downside of his career?

It's common sense. Hunt lost in the 1st round against Barnett. He lost in the 1st Round against Fedor. And since then... he has lost all his fights in the 1st Round. So, of course.. the downslide started with his fight against Barnett.

Nobody, but being undefeated and that big still made him a threat. I'm not sure about his exact weight in that fight, but he probably had at least 100 pounds or more over Fedor.

Yeah and it was an interesting fight, and if Zuluzinho actually won good fights after his bout with Fedor, then you'd have a valid point. But before Fedor, he fought nothing but nobodies. And after Fedor, he got some worthy opponents and got his ass handed to him 5 out of his next 7 fights.

Comparing fighter record side by side? Yes my friend, i think so.

Anderson's 4 wins you listed out do anything Fedor has done since 2005. That was my point.

I kept pointing it out, but i also said in my post that he can't take a beating like he used to in pride. And again, why downgrade the wins? Because he couldn't finish Nog in his prime? Really? Have you seen the beatdown Fedor gave him? The headkick he took from CroCop and still came back to win? A headkick from Herring and still won? A piledriver from Sapp? The man was impossible to finish in his prime, nothing should be taken away from Fedor's wins.

Like I said, these fights happened 5 years ago, well before any of us knew just how good Anderson Silva actually was.

And you're right... those wins were impressive and I shouldn't take anything away from them, but how do we know Fedor would pull that kind of shit off against the absolute best Heavyweights in the World? Or even against talent like Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida? We don't know, and never will, because he's not in the UFC. We'll see something though against Barnett, and I for one, cannot wait.

Well then tell me who else would you have ranked second at the time? Mir? The argument could be made for him, but who else? Barnett got his 4th win in a row that night over Yvel, so who else would have been ranked second? There is nobody else. Fedor has cleared out the division outside of a select few such as Mir. He fought the second best in the world at the time, not his fault who's on there. Point is he fights top competition.

As you said... Barnett. Maybe Couture. Maybe Nog. All three of these guys would fucking slaughter Arlovski and you know it. Lesnar would beat Arloski, too. Mir would also beat that motherfucker. Tim Sylvia beat that dude TWICE. Come on, man. Arlovski's a hack.

Right, two time holder of the UFC HW championship, real hack he was back then. Look i won't stand here and call him a top HW, but he is no hack. Now he is, but not when Fedor fought him.

You and I both know that being the UFC Heavyweight Champion at that time meant absolutely nothing because the division literally had ZERO competition.

Really? Getting knocked out by someone with the hand speed of Belfort shows you're out of your prime? Lindland is 39. You know who else is 39? Henderson, seems to be doing fine.

Maybe you're right, but I stick with what I said earlier about Lindland being a Middleweight.

Arlovski is not crap, hes just become hesitant. Have you seen his fight with Rogers? Moved back, hands down, no head movement, moving backwards in a straight line. For Arlovski its just a mental thing.

Arlovski has no excuse. The guy started training with Freddie Roach for fuck's sake. He should be the best he's ever been, but you know what? He's really never been that good to begin with. He has some good wrestling and decent Jiu-Jitsu, but his striking is absolute shit because of his chin and inability defensively. You cannot sit there and tell me Arlovski had a chin before the Fedor fight. Did you not see his first lost against Tim Sylvia? Sylvia barely touched him and Arlovski was out like a light. It was pathetic.

As for Sylvia, I've never been a fan of his, but that lost wouldn't have happened if Sylvia wasn't stupid.

But he is, and always has been. Anyone with a brain could've recovered against Fedor after his flurry, but Sylvia sucks.

Its a MMA fight, he decides to throw a low kick, which he agreed not to might i add, and payed for it with a punch from a over his prime boxer, but still deadly.

But in 10 seconds, man? It was the biggest embarrassment in the history of the sport. It was worse then the way Kimbo defeated Bo Cantrell. There's no excuse for it as far as I'm concerned.

So Anderon's wins that i listed compared to CroCop, Arlovski, Hunt, Lindland, and Sylvia are more impressive? Subjective, but then again i do hold CroCop in high regard.

Take Cro Cop off that list like you should... and yes. The toughest opponent on there is Lindland, and Silva would kill him.

Wow, you really do have some hate towards Arlovski to say that.

Not hate, just disappointment.

It was Machida's 6th fight, I'm sure hes grown since then.

I'm sure he has too, but it was still impressive nonetheless.

One in my eyes, the other was when i consider him past his prime.

Maybe, but it was two wins where GSP didn't just beat him, but absolutely decimate the dude.

Again, really do hate Arlovski don't you?

I don't hate anyone, to be honest. But yes.. Arlovski does annoy the ever living piss out of me. Like I said.. the dude is just a disappointment.

Sure did, but we already discredited one of the Hughes, Serra, and Koscheck. So that leaves him dominating Fitch, Hughes once, and BJ twice. Considering BJ was fighting way above his natural weight class and is 2-3 at WW. With his only notable win being Hughes, which Hughes later avenged. So yeah a 2-3 BJ with his only wins being Hughes and Ludwig at WW should not be much of a win at WW. At LW a win over BJ means something, at WW? Don't think so.

BJ could still wipe the floor with most Welterweights, though, so I think discredting those wins is unfair.

But yeah... can't wait for the month of August. One of us is going to look really wrong in this thread, or all 3 are going to dominate their respective fights and this argument will continue.

 

[Marquis]

Silva IS a monster. He was just chasing a couple of bitches who he couldn't catch when they hid under the bed.

He could have caught him if he went into his guard.

Two of those fights happened forever ago. And even if you don't want to agree with me when I say Lindland is past his prime, if you can discredit GSP's wins over BJ because BJ went up a weight class, then I can discredit Fedor's win over Lindland since Lindland is a natural Middleweight.

Fair is fair.

I didn't mean to downgrade it, but not being able to finish someone off does count against you somewhat in a case like this.

How does it count against you for not being able to finish THE Minotauro Nogueira in his prime?

Plus, I still don't think these fights should've been broughten up. They happened over 5 years ago.

I think its fair to pull up both of their records from past and present when you're trying to argue who's the p4p best.

I agree Cro Cop was hot shit back then. Hell, in my first post about Fedor, I said his last great win was against Cro Cop. And that since THAT time, he hasn't done anything worthy enough for people to claim he's Pound 4 Pound the best fighter in the World, which is why I don't like the fight against Cro Cop and the fights against Nog being brought up.

I won't say Sylvia since you don't want to hear it, but whether you like him or not Arlovski was ranked second in the world at the time, and now hes fighting the current 2nd HW in Barnett. I really don't understand who you want him to fight to earn his credit that he deserves. Hes cleared out the division, and still fights 2nd ranked HW's.

Put Fedor in there with two *****es who constantly run away and pull guard and see him finish them off; the latter being a black belt and one of the absolute best in the World in Bazillion Jiu-Jitsu.

Fedor is a world class Sambo competitor, BJJ isn't the only form of submission fighting. I'm sure he would feel perfectly fine in the guard of a world class BJJ artist.

Rothwell's never defeated anyone worth a damn. Buentello's okay, but still... not impressed. And Nelson is a TUFer as we speak, one who perhaps would've defeated Arlovski if the ref didn't blatantly cheat in that fight by standing the fighters up when Nelson had Arlovski in side control.

I really think you should try to understand how depleted this division is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of Arlovski's either, but for him to be ranked 2nd in the world a few months ago should give you a idea of how hurt this division is. So yes those wins are fine for a depleted division.

Dude, there was an 11 month gap between those fights. How does someone get that terrible in just 11 months? No, Sylvia was terrible when he fought Fedor, too. All you have to do to defeat that moron is attack, and Fedor, to his credit unlike the rest of the *****es, like Arloski, did just that and Sylvia got his ass handed to him like he would if he were in there with any decent Heavyweight.

Inactivity is a bitch, we seen some of the best fall to it. Randy, Shogun, and Bonnar. Sure his was only 11 months, but this is Tim fuckin Syvia. Has he ever been know for being a workhorse constantly at the gym? I sure as hell don't think so with the body he rolls around in.

It's common sense. Hunt lost in the 1st round against Barnett. He lost in the 1st Round against Fedor. And since then... he has lost all his fights in the 1st Round. So, of course.. the downslide started with his fight against Barnett.

Yes, but at that very moment when he was fighting hunt, how would you know he was going down hill? Lost to Barnett? Nothing to be ashamed of.

Yeah and it was an interesting fight, and if Zuluzinho actually won good fights after his bout with Fedor, then you'd have a valid point. But before Fedor, he fought nothing but nobodies. And after Fedor, he got some worthy opponents and got his ass handed to him 5 out of his next 7 fights.

See this seems to be a frequent theme here, that when Fedor fights them they're fine or decent competition, but after him they're not. I really don't feel anything should be taken away from Fedor because of this. When they present them to him they are fine or credible foes. What happens afterwords i don't feel should diminish anything.

Anderson's 4 wins you listed out do anything Fedor has done since 2005. That was my point.

Fedor has been actively fighting the past four years. The fact that there wasn't top competition you really can't hold against him. Just now are we starting to see a decent HW pool in the UFC with Carwin, Cain, Mir, and a good prospect in Lesnar.

Like I said, these fights happened 5 years ago, well before any of us knew just how good Anderson Silva actually was.

When having a debate for who's the p4p best i don't see how its fair that we can reach back in Anderson's career and not Fedor's

And you're right... those wins were impressive and I shouldn't take anything away from them, but how do we know Fedor would pull that kind of shit off against the absolute best Heavyweights in the World? Or even against talent like Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida? We don't know, and never will, because he's not in the UFC. We'll see something though against Barnett, and I for one, cannot wait.

Tell me who you consider the absolute bests in the world in the HW division. Lesnar?, 3-1, let him beat Mir then we can mention him. Mir? Love the guy, and if hes one of the people you consider the best in the world i agree. Carwin? One notable win. Cain? Two notable wins at best. Overeem? Overrated as fuck. Let him beat Rogers then I'll consider him. Fact is on paper, and even in a actual fight, i feel none of these pose a threat to Fedor right now. Except for Mir.

As you said... Barnett. Maybe Couture. Maybe Nog. All three of these guys would fucking slaughter Arlovski and you know it. Lesnar would beat Arloski, too. Mir would also beat that motherfucker.

Wait wait what? I asked you who you would rank second HW instead of Arlovski at the time when he was ranked it. Not who can beat him. Randy? He was coming off a lose to Lesnar. Barnett? Barnett got his 4th win in a row over Yvel the very same night of the fight. Nog? He was coming off a lose to Mir, and even if Nog was ranked second it would only serve to make Fedor look better since he defeated him twice in his prime.

Tim Sylvia beat that dude TWICE. Come on, man. Arlovski's a hack.

Him and Sylvia haven't fought in three years. As much as you probably won't admit this, Arlovski has become a better fighter since then. Enough to warrant him number two HW in the world a few months ago.

You and I both know that being the UFC Heavyweight Champion at that time meant absolutely nothing because the division literally had ZERO competition.

Still does really, till recently.

Arlovski has no excuse. The guy started training with Freddie Roach for fuck's sake. He should be the best he's ever been, but you know what? He's really never been that good to begin with. He has some good wrestling and decent Jiu-Jitsu, but his striking is absolute shit because of his chin and inability defensively. You cannot sit there and tell me Arlovski had a chin before the Fedor fight. Did you not see his first lost against Tim Sylvia? Sylvia barely touched him and Arlovski was out like a light. It was pathetic.

Woah, he was at the best hes ever been, till his lost to Fedor. I will never admit he has a chin, he doesn't have one. Hopefully he goes back to the basics like he said in a interview and gives up this shit about being a boxer and goes back to sambo.

But he is, and always has been. Anyone with a brain could've recovered against Fedor after his flurry, but Sylvia sucks.

Try having your brain intact while getting bombs dropped on you from Fedor. He was most likely out of it already when he dropped.

But in 10 seconds, man? It was the biggest embarrassment in the history of the sport. It was worse then the way Kimbo defeated Bo Cantrell. There's no excuse for it as far as I'm concerned.

It is an embarrassment, but its what happens when you have someone as stupid as Sylvia who decides to box and actual pro boxer.

Take Cro Cop off that list like you should... and yes. The toughest opponent on there is Lindland, and Silva would kill him.

Why should i take CroCop off? That fight was 4 years ago.

I'm sure he has too, but it was still impressive nonetheless.

I didn't find it impressive, maybe if he actually beat him then i would. And for the record i thought Tito was his toughest foe to date. According to Lyoto in a interview i remember reading he almost blacked out to Tito's triangle choke.

Maybe, but it was two wins where GSP didn't just beat him, but absolutely decimate the dude.

Agreed, but i still feel one of them doesn't hold as much value.

I don't hate anyone, to be honest. But yes.. Arlovski does annoy the ever living piss out of me. Like I said.. the dude is just a disappointment.

After Rogers i agree, he has become a disappointment.

BJ could still wipe the floor with most Welterweights, though, so I think discredting those wins is unfair.

What basis do you have for this to think he can wipe the floor with most WW? His WW record sure as hell doesn't reflect it. His LW record isn't even that great. In the last 4 years hes only fought 3 LW's. A past his prime Pulver, Sherk being the only one i consider top competition, and Stevenson.

But yeah... can't wait for the month of August. One of us is going to look really wrong in this thread, or all 3 are going to dominate their respective fights and this argument will continue.

Looking forward to it.

 

[jmt225]

He could have caught him if he went into his guard.

People thought the same thing when Silva fought Travis Lutter.

How does it count against you for not being able to finish THE Minotauro Nogueira in his prime?

I guess it doesn't overall, but it's like I said... this fight shouldn't count in Fedor's favor right now in my opinion.

I think its fair to pull up both of their records from past and present when you're trying to argue who's the p4p best.

It would be fair if we're talking of all time, but as in right now, in the present, 5 years is just too long.

I won't say Sylvia since you don't want to hear it, but whether you like him or not Arlovski was ranked second in the world at the time, and now hes fighting the current 2nd HW in Barnett. I really don't understand who you want him to fight to earn his credit that he deserves. Hes cleared out the division, and still fights 2nd ranked HW's.

Well, Barnett FINALLY stepped up to the plate. He's the person I've wanted to see fight Fedor forever it seems. And after it happens, if Fedor wins... then the only competition worthy enough out there are in the UFC. And that's where his ass should be.

Fedor is a world class Sambo competitor, BJJ isn't the only form of submission fighting. I'm sure he would feel perfectly fine in the guard of a world class BJJ artist.

Oh, I know. I'm not saying Fedor would get caught, just saying I doubt he'd catch such a prolific Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

I really think you should try to understand how depleted this division is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of Arlovski's either, but for him to be ranked 2nd in the world a few months ago should give you a idea of how hurt this division is. So yes those wins are fine for a depleted division.

I know, which is why it hurts Fedor not to be in the UFC, because people such as myself who feel that he's not currenty P4P the very best in the World can use this as a way to justify ourselves.

Inactivity is a bitch, we seen some of the best fall to it. Randy, Shogun, and Bonnar. Sure his was only 11 months, but this is Tim fuckin Syvia. Has he ever been know for being a workhorse constantly at the gym? I sure as hell don't think so with the body he rolls around in.

But again I ask you, please without saying he was a former 3 time UFC Champion, what did Tim Sylvia ever do that showed he was truly a great fighter? Who did he ever defeat?

Yes, but at that very moment when he was fighting hunt, how would you know he was going down hill? Lost to Barnett? Nothing to be ashamed of.

I didn't know that at the time, but it's pretty obvious now, lol.

See this seems to be a frequent theme here, that when Fedor fights them they're fine or decent competition, but after him they're not. I really don't feel anything should be taken away from Fedor because of this. When they present them to him they are fine or credible foes. What happens afterwords i don't feel should diminish anything.

Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree there.

Fedor has been actively fighting the past four years. The fact that there wasn't top competition you really can't hold against him. Just now are we starting to see a decent HW pool in the UFC with Carwin, Cain, Mir, and a good prospect in Lesnar.

I know I can't hold it against him personally, but when there are fighters out there who are fighting the best of the best in their division, and completely dominating them like Silva and GSP has, I can then rightfully say that they're in the discussion of best P4P in the World, and perhaps even past Fedor Emelianenko at this point.

When having a debate for who's the p4p best i don't see how its fair that we can reach back in Anderson's career and not Fedor's

Because Anderson didn't come on to the scene until he fought Chris Leben, which was in June of 2006. It's not fair to count what Fedor was doing well before then and hold that up against Silva because we are talking about most recent events. And before his last two fights, Silva was completely outdoing Fedor competition wise, which makes it fair to claim that Silva is pound 4 pound the best in the World.

Tell me who you consider the absolute bests in the world in the HW division. Lesnar?, 3-1, let him beat Mir then we can mention him. Mir? Love the guy, and if hes one of the people you consider the best in the world i agree. Carwin? One notable win. Cain? Two notable wins at best. Overeem? Overrated as fuck. Let him beat Rogers then I'll consider him. Fact is on paper, and even in a actual fight, i feel none of these pose a threat to Fedor right now. Except for Mir.

I'm not saying Fedor isn't the best in the Heavyweight division. He is. And actually.. I put Barnett 2nd. And then Lesnar, Couture, Mir, Nog, Overeem, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin, and Cheick Kongo. That's it. But the thing is... I think all of these could at least put up a decent fight in one way or another. Fedor does have weak points in his game; they just haven't been exposed yet because his competition has never been top notch, and it won’t ever be most likely which hurts his legacy.

Wait wait what? I asked you who you would rank second HW instead of Arlovski at the time when he was ranked it. Not who can beat him. Randy? He was coming off a lose to Lesnar. Barnett? Barnett got his 4th win in a row over Yvel the very same night of the fight. Nog? He was coming off a lose to Mir, and even if Nog was ranked second it would only serve to make Fedor look better since he defeated him twice in his prime.

The thing is Marquis, I don't care about rankings. All I care about is who I feel is the best, and the guys I named I fell could wipe the fucking floor with Andrei Arlovski. Seriously, you think Arlovski could defeat any of the names I listed?

Him and Sylvia haven't fought in three years. As much as you probably won't admit this, Arlovski has become a better fighter since then. Enough to warrant him number two HW in the world a few months ago.

Whether his ranking was warranted or not... I still feel a victory over him is nothing special, especially when you look at that fight. Not to get picky, but Arlovski was winning and then Fedor nailed one shot. And that was it. Anyone can duck their head and throw an overhand right and knock someone out with no chin whatsoever.

Still does really, till recently.

I heavily disagree. There are about 4 really good contenders for the title in the division, about 3 good fighters close to getting to that point, and 2 AWESOME up and comers who look unstoppable at this point. The division, in the UFC at least, has never been better.

Woah, he was at the best hes ever been, till his lost to Fedor. I will never admit he has a chin, he doesn't have one. Hopefully he goes back to the basics like he said in a interview and gives up this shit about being a boxer and goes back to sambo.

Maybe he was the best he's ever been at the time he fought Fedor, but that still doesn't make me think Fedor beating him is worth anything.

Try having your brain intact while getting bombs dropped on you from Fedor. He was most likely out of it already when he dropped.

Yeah, I would get my ass kicked. But I'm not a professional fighter. I don't train every single day, getting put in that EXACT same position daily while training. Sylvia could've recovered, but didn't. He started defending the choke, but fucked up. The guy's an imbecile.

It is an embarrassment, but its what happens when you have someone as stupid as Sylvia who decides to box and actual pro boxer.

True.

Why should i take CroCop off? That fight was 4 years ago.

Still a full year before we knew what Anderson Silva was all about.

I didn't find it impressive, maybe if he actually beat him then i would. And for the record i thought Tito was toughest foe to date. According to Lyoto in a interview i remember reading he almost blacked out to Tito's triangle choke.

Well, maybe you're correct on that one. But I meant actually standing up with Lyoto and actually connecting with shit. BJ was the last person to ever do any true damage to him that way. And it impresses me. I bet Fedor wouldn't be able to hit that motherfucker.

Agreed, but i still feel one of them doesn't hold as much value.

Okay, that's fine.

After Rogers i agree, he has become a disappointment.

He's been a disappointment to me since the second Sylvia fight.

What basis do you have for this to think he can wipe the floor with most WW? His WW record sure as hell doesn't reflect it. His LW record isn't even that great. In the last 4 years hes only fought 3 LW's. A past his prime Pulver, Sherk being the only one i consider top competition, and Stevenson.

Look at who he fought at Welterweight though. GSP twice, and Matt Hughes still in his prime twice. That's some pretty tough competition. And he won a fight against Hughes, and nearly beat him the second time before Penn broke his ribs. And he almost beat GSP in their first fight. So with a win over Duane Ludwig that leaves Penn 2-3 in the Welterweight Division, against 3 fighters, 2 of them perhaps being the greatest Welterweights of all time. He's also 2-0 at Middleweight, and lost that fight against Machida at Openweight. I firmly believe this guy could more then hold his own against the likes of Alves, Fitch, Jake Shields, Karo Parysian, Martin Kampmann, etc. And I think deep down, you feel the same way.

 

[Marquis]

People thought the same thing when Silva fought Travis Lutter.

Sure looked like a real "monster" in that fight.

It would be fair if we're talking of all time, but as in right now, in the present, 5 years is just too long.

So because Anderson didn't come on the "scene" till his fight with Leben we can't bring up Fedor's past record for being a great competitor through out his whole career? Seems like logic favoring Anderson.

Well, Barnett FINALLY stepped up to the plate. He's the person I've wanted to see fight Fedor forever it seems. And after it happens, if Fedor wins... then the only competition worthy enough out there are in the UFC. And that's where his ass should be.

I agree.

Oh, I know. I'm not saying Fedor would get caught, just saying I doubt he'd catch such a prolific Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

He wouldn't need to. He could stay in their guard without getting caught and pound their asses out.

I know, which is why it hurts Fedor not to be in the UFC, because people such as myself who feel that he's not currenty P4P the very best in the World can use this as a way to justify ourselves.

Just recently has a pool developed in the UFC. I would love to see him in the UFC, hopefully gets his ass kicked by Mir, but he does not need to prove anything. He has beaten the best of the best in their prime aside from a select few. One of them being Barnett, which now i have to cheer to lose so my argument will stand correct.

But again I ask you, please without saying he was a former 3 time UFC Champion, what did Tim Sylvia ever do that showed he was truly a great fighter? Who did he ever defeat?

Vera, Arlovski, Monson, and Rodriguez. Not extremely impressive, but i never claimed him to be a great fighter.

I didn't know that at the time, but it's pretty obvious now, lol.

Then at the time he was a fine opponent with wins over CroCop and Wanderlei, but like you said we agree to disagree on what happens afterwords to his opponents.

Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree there.

Fair enough

I know I can't hold it against him personally, but when there are fighters out there who are fighting the best of the best in their division, and completely dominating them like Silva and GSP has, I can then rightfully say that they're in the discussion of best P4P in the World, and perhaps even past Fedor Emelianenko at this point.

Fighting the best of the best in their division? GSP is, Fedor has and still is, Silva isn't.

Because Anderson didn't come on to the scene until he fought Chris Leben, which was in June of 2006. It's not fair to count what Fedor was doing well before then and hold that up against Silva because we are talking about most recent events. And before his last two fights, Silva was completely outdoing Fedor competition wise, which makes it fair to claim that Silva is pound 4 pound the best in the World.

So again, because Anderson was a late bloomer and Fedor wasn't, we use logic that favors Anderson? Doesn't seem fair to me.

I'm not saying Fedor isn't the best in the Heavyweight division. He is. And actually.. I put Barnett 2nd. And then Lesnar, Couture, Mir, Nog, Overeem, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin, and Cheick Kongo. That's it. But the thing is... I think all of these could at least put up a decent fight in one way or another. Fedor does have weak points in his game; they just haven't been exposed yet because his competition has never been top notch, and it won’t ever be most likely which hurts his legacy.

A decent fight sure, win? Doubt it.

The thing is Marquis, I don't care about rankings. All I care about is who I feel is the best, and the guys I named I fell could wipe the fucking floor with Andrei Arlovski. Seriously, you think Arlovski could defeat any of the names I listed?

So let me get this straight. I'm suppose to argue with who you consider the best, instead of using rankings which is a collective of people agreeing who's the best. Am i getting this right?

Whether his ranking was warranted or not... I still feel a victory over him is nothing special, especially when you look at that fight. Not to get picky, but Arlovski was winning and then Fedor nailed one shot. And that was it. Anyone can duck their head and throw an overhand right and knock someone out with no chin whatsoever.

Wow, just wow. Did you really look at the fight? Almost none of Arlovski's punches landed, only his leg kicks did. When Fedor had him in the ring corner he dominated him. Threw many more knees and punches in the corner. So anyone can have good head movement and find a way to end someone in a split second opening?

I heavily disagree. There are about 4 really good contenders for the title in the division, about 3 good fighters close to getting to that point, and 2 AWESOME up and comers who look unstoppable at this point. The division, in the UFC at least, has never been better.

Names please, wait i can probably name most and discredit them. Carwin? Only notable win is Gonzaga. Velasquez? only notable win is Kongo, and O'Brien if you want to be generous. Big Nog? fair enough. Lesnar? 3-1 with his only notable win being Randy. Unless of course you want to count Herring. If he beats Mir he deserves a mention, till then no. Randy? Let's see after his fight against big Nog where he stands. Gonzaga? Aside from Mirko hes lost all his fights against top competition. The only notable HW right now in the UFC is Mir, but the pool is growing like i admitted. Its a decent pool, but its fairly recent.

Edit: I fixed this post since apparently i think i was reading your quote wrong or was reading some other quote.

Maybe he was the best he's ever been at the time he fought Fedor, but that still doesn't make me think Fedor beating him is worth anything.

Too bad a collective ranking did agree he was worth something huh?

Yeah, I would get my ass kicked. But I'm not a professional fighter. I don't train every single day, getting put in that EXACT same position daily while training. Sylvia could've recovered, but didn't. He started defending the choke, but fucked up. The guy's an imbecile.

Didn't mean you, meant in general. And Sylvia could have recovered? Do you know where his head was at that exact moment? I sure as hell don't think he was thinking straight if he couldn't even try to defend the choke, because from what i saw at 4:34-4:29 of the fight, he basically let Fedor sink it in. Either he took some hard shots or hes just a imbecile. I like to think its both.

Still a full year before we knew what Anderson Silva was all about.

This is the quote i responded to.

Hey... I'm not going to sit here and try and convince you that defeating Thales Leites and Patrick Cote in the manner Silva did is anything to brag about. I'm not ******ed, lol. But what I will say is that Silva's wins prior to that is more impressive then anything we've ever seen out of Fedor in the past 4 years. And I think now that Silva is going to get in there again with someone like Forrest Griffin... he'll be able to get back to the Silva we know and love, and prove me to be right about what I'm claiming. And hell... Josh Barnett might prove me right, too.

You said past 4 years. CroCop was 4 years ago.

Well, maybe you're correct on that one. But I meant actually standing up with Lyoto and actually connecting with shit. BJ was the last person to ever do any true damage to him that way. And it impresses me. I bet Fedor wouldn't be able to hit that motherfucker.

Well we'll agree to disagree here.

He's been a disappointment to me since the second Sylvia fight.

I can't say the same since i actually acknowledge his 5 wins after that fight.

Look at who he fought at Welterweight though. GSP twice, and Matt Hughes still in his prime twice. That's some pretty tough competition. And he won a fight against Hughes, and nearly beat him the second time before Penn broke his ribs. And he almost beat GSP in their first fight. So with a win over Duane Ludwig that leaves Penn 2-3 in the Welterweight Division, against 3 fighters, 2 of them perhaps being the greatest Welterweights of all time. He's also 2-0 at Middleweight, and lost that fight against Machida at Openweight. I firmly believe this guy could more then hold his own against the likes of Alves, Fitch, Jake Shields, Karo Parysian, Martin Kampmann, etc. And I think deep down, you feel the same way.

Tough competition sure, but he still lost to them. Although i will give him credit for the broken rib i wasn't aware of it. At LW he has beaten top ranked competition. At WW he only has once. This should show LW is where he belongs. Therefore him going up in weight and having a 2-3 record even against top competition should not count him as a worthwhile win in WW.
As for who he can hold his own against.

Alves? Bigger then GSP in my opinion or the same size, has shown decent takedown defense, and is a deadly striker. Maybe even deadlier then GSP which we will found out soon enough. So let's see, BJ can't take him down so he has to stand with him. Hmm, yeah I'll give it to the Muay Thai machine VIA TKO.

Fitch? Another big WW, but even if BJ manages to get him down, Fitch holds a blackbelt, so I'm sure he can hold his own. So let's see, another fight that i think will come to a stand up. Do i take BJ "i never quit" Penn who called it quits against George, or Fitch the one who hung in there for 5 rounds. Yeah I'll give it to fitch.

Parisyan? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he have some calf injury that really limits him? Meaning hes not the same Karo as he used to be. If this is true, then yes BJ "Fight to the death" Penn probably could beat him

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

Anderson Silva is a champion, the best middleweight in the world and tied if not the best pound for pound fighter in th world. Whats my proof, it's bellow.

His list is alot more impressive then previously lead to belive.

Roan Carneiro: is a genuine BJJ black belt and one of the most slick ground fighters in MMA.... Till Anderson got his hands on him and destroyed him until the ref stopped the fight.

Carlos Newton: Anderson Silva showed the world his striking is on another level when he crushed Newton with a flying knee and followed it by pounding him until the fight was stopped.

He did defeat Jeremy Horn but that wasn't a much impressive fight, Anderson was picked to win alot more convincingly.

Chris Leben: In under a minute he cruied through Leben dropped him and stunned him all fight and KO'd with a perfectly placed knee to the face.

Rich Franklin: He is a very respected and well rounded fighter, well Anderson picked him off 3 mins into the first round to lift the UFC Middleweight Championship. The Same Rich who is regarded as one of the best strikers got KO'd by a knee not once but twice while in the process making Rich look like he didn't know what he was doing. 1:50 seconds in Round 1 and elbowed till the fight he tapped out.

Nate Marquardt: Pancrease Champion, Greg Jacksonssubmission practioneer. Got slipped into unconsciousness with a single laser right hand.

Dan Henderson: He is a hard bastard, A hard person to beat let alone stop in a fight, he is regarded as one of the cooler and unemotional fighters of the game itself..... he changed everything in his game plan to fight Anderson Silva. He got picked apart in the striking department, couldn't take Silva down and when he did Anderson scambled to his feet with no damage recieved, Round 2 he slips the Rear Naked Choke..... Dan Taps.

Travis Lutter: A BJJ Blackbelt and a workhorse in his own right the Ultimate Fighter 4 winner and one of the best rollers.... well he got caught, thats right caught in a Triangle Choke

 

[jmt225]

Sure looked like a real "monster" in that fight.

He beat his ass, didn't he? I bet Fedor wouldn't be able to submit Lutter.

So because Anderson didn't come on the "scene" till his fight with Leben we can't bring up Fedor's past record for being a great competitor through out his whole career? Seems like logic favoring Anderson.

Yes, because we're talking about RIGHT NOW, not of all time. In the history of the sport, yes... Fedor is the Pound 4 Pound greatest fighter to ever live, currently. However, as we speak, Anderson Silva's qualifications defeats Fedor's in that department in the last 3 years, which, in my mind, makes him currently the best P4P fighter in the World.

He wouldn't need to. He could stay in their guard without getting caught and pound their asses out.

And I'm sure Silva could do the same thing, but he wanted a knock out in his fight against Lietes.

Just recently has a pool developed in the UFC. I would love to see him in the UFC, hopefully gets his ass kicked by Mir, but he does not need to prove anything. He has beaten the best of the best in their prime aside from a select few. One of them being Barnett, which now i have to cheer to lose so my argument will stand correct.

I think he does have to prove it. Maybe not to you, which is fine, but I think to the majority, until Fedor fights in the UFC, he will not be recognized as the very best in the World.

Vera, Arlovski, Monson, and Rodriguez. Not extremely impressive, but i never claimed him to be a great fighter.

Rodriguez's the only win that ever impressed me, and ever that win came when Rodriguez was a drug addict. The first Arlovski win, Sylvia was getting his ass kicked, landed one weak ass fucking punch that was pure luck and put Arlovski away. The second win against Arlovski was a bore fest where both fighters fought like bitches (that's where my dislike for both individuals started). The Monson fight was another borefest, and so was the Vera fight.

Fighting the best of the best in their division? GSP is, Fedor has and still is, Silva isn't.

Silva's last two fights maybe (don't remember what those guys were rank, but I'm pretty sure both were in the top 10), but before then he was fighting the absolute best in his division. Fedor hasn't fought anyone worth a damn since Cro Cop, in my opinion, as I stated earlier.

A decent fight sure, win? Doubt it.

A couple of those names I think could defeat Fedor.

So let me get this straight. I'm suppose to argue with who you consider the best, instead of using rankings which is a collective of people agreeing who's the best. Am i getting this right?

Lol... yes. Those rankings are shit, Marquis. And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question... do you think Arlovski could defeat any of those people?

Wow, just wow. Did you really look at the fight? Almost none of Arlovski's punches landed, only his leg kicks did. When Fedor had him in the ring corner he dominated him. Threw many more knees and punches in the corner. So anyone can have good head movement and find a way to end someone in a split second opening?

I knew that was going to get a rise out of you.

But no... look, I know had Fedor not landed that, in my opinion, lucky punch. he was eventually going to catch Arlovski with something nevertheless. But my opinion stands that that punch was luck, and that Arlovski was winning the fight before getting caught.

Names please, wait i can probably name most and discredit them. Carwin? Only notable win is Gonzaga. Velasquez? only notable win is Kongo, and O'Brien if you want to be generous. Big Nog? fair enough. Lesnar? 3-1 with his only notable win being Randy. Unless of course you want to count Herring. If he beats Mir he deserves a mention, till then no. Randy? Let's see after his fight against big Nog where he stands. Gonzaga? Aside from Mirko hes lost all his fights against top competition. The only notable HW right now in the UFC is Mir, but the pool is growing like i admitted. Its a decent pool, but its fairly recent.

A decent pool is still TEN TIMES better than what the UFC had when Sylvia and Arlovski were on top of the Heavyweight Division. And you can discredit all those names, but I'd be willing to bet that there's not a person on that list you discredited that you feel Arlovski or Sylvia could defeat, back then or today. Am I right?

Too bad a collective ranking did agree he was worth something huh?

But I still don't believe that holds any ground in this argument when you look at who Arlovski defeated and what he did and has done since the Fedor fight.

Didn't mean you, meant in general. And Sylvia could have recovered? Do you know where his head was at that exact moment? I sure as hell don't think he was thinking straight if he couldn't even try to defend the choke, because from what i saw at 4:34-4:29 of the fight, he basically let Fedor sink it in. Either he took some hard shots or hes just a imbecile. I like to think its both.

Maybe it is both, lol, but the ****** recovered against Couture in their fight. Now, I'm not saying Couture is as good as Fedor on the ground, but if Sylvia could recover from that, then he could recover from what Fedor did to him I would believe. But he fucked up.

You said past 4 years. CroCop was 4 years ago.

Fine. His fight can count.

Tough competition sure, but he still lost to them. Although i will give him credit for the broken rib i wasn't aware of it. At LW he has beaten top ranked competition. At WW he only has once. This should show LW is where he belongs. Therefore him going up in weight and having a 2-3 record even against top competition should not count him as a worthwhile win in WW. As for who he can hold his own against.

I believe Lightweight is where he belongs as well, but at the same time... there are plenty of top contenders I truly believe he could defeat at Welterweight. Just like I believe Anderson Silva could defeat a bunch of top guys at Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight.

Alves? Bigger then GSP in my opinion or the same size, has shown decent takedown defense, and is a deadly striker. Maybe even deadlier then GSP which we will found out soon enough. So let's see, BJ can't take him down so he has to stand with him. Hmm, yeah I'll give it to the Muay Thai machine VIA TKO.

No, I completely disagree. I think BJ would completely outbox Alves and win the battle on the feet. Did you ever watch Alves' fight against Chris Lytle? It was a damn good fight before it was stopped due to a cut, but Lytle was winning in my opinion because of his superior boxing. All Alves has are those powerful leg kicks, and as long as BJ defends those, which I strongly believe he would, he would pick apart Alves on the feet and win a decision, or perhaps even knock his ass down by way of a punch and sub him on the ground afterwards.

Fitch? Another big WW, but even if BJ manages to get him down, Fitch holds a blackbelt, so I'm sure he can hold his own. So let's see, another fight that i think will come to a stand up. Do i take BJ "i never quit" Penn who called it quits against George, or Fitch the one who hung in there for 5 rounds. Yeah I'll give it to fitch.

A Fitch/Penn fight could go either way; I'll admit to that one.

Parisyan? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't he have some calf injury that really limits him? Meaning hes not the same Karo as he used to be. If this is true, then yes BJ "Fight to the death" Penn probably could beat him

Even if he was the same Karo of old, BJ would still beat that motherfucker. On the feet, BJ is far superior, and on the ground... BJ is better. It would be close becasue Karo would get a couple of good takedowns and stay on top for a bit, but overall... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter what Karo Parisyan BJ Penn faced... he would stand more than a fair chance at defeating him.

 

[Marquis]

He beat his ass, didn't he? I bet Fedor wouldn't be able to submit Lutter.

He did beat him, but did he look like a "monster"? Don't think so. And I'm confident Fedor would be able to submit him.

Yes, because we're talking about RIGHT NOW, not of all time. In the history of the sport, yes... Fedor is the Pound 4 Pound greatest fighter to ever live, currently. However, as we speak, Anderson Silva's qualifications defeats Fedor's in that department in the last 3 years, which, in my mind, makes him currently the best P4P fighter in the World.

So now its 3 years huh? Lol. So you admit Fedor is the greatest pound 4 pound to live currently, then i will admit that Anderson has fought tougher competition these past 3 years, but. Even if he has, Fedor is still number one on my list. Its not Fedor's fault that top competition in the heavyweight division was very non existent till recently. He fought ranked second(although you don't care) at the time Arlovski, i don't believe Arlovski really belonged in there, but what choice is there in a depleted division? And now he will move on to fight Barnett, the current second ranked. So hes fighting top competition, just the competition doesn't really stack much to the MW divisions thanks to the HW division being depleted. And soon enough Anderson will be having the same problem as Fedor. Outside of Okami, Maia is one dimensional, and well Bisping if he gets through Henderson. There isn't much left for him in the MW division outside of a few rematches. And LHW is apparently out of the question since hes good friends with Machida.

And I'm sure Silva could do the same thing, but he wanted a knock out in his fight against Lietes.

Lol, you thought he wanted a knock out? Looked like to me he wanted a decision. Tell me what makes you think he wanted a knock out, the fact that he wanted to stand? One could say he just didn't want to go in the guard of a world class BJJ artist.

I think he does have to prove it. Maybe not to you, which is fine, but I think to the majority, until Fedor fights in the UFC, he will not be recognized as the very best in the World.

The majority can find these things called Pride FC" DVD's. Zuffa is so kind that they release them. And by majority, i assume you mean the casual fan community. Who will buy into what the UFC says, but i won't deny i would like to see him in the UFC. I still would love to see a match againt Randy, and a match with Mir is a fight a yearn to see the most.

Rodriguez's the only win that ever impressed me, and ever that win came when Rodriguez was a drug addict. The first Arlovski win, Sylvia was getting his ass kicked, landed one weak ass fucking punch that was pure luck and put Arlovski away. The second win against Arlovski was a bore fest where both fighters fought like bitches (that's where my dislike for both individuals started). The Monson fight was another borefest, and so was the Vera fight.

I see you missed when i said i never considered him a great fighter. Nitpick all you want on the wins besides the Rodriguez one, but those are still wins he holds.

Silva's last two fights maybe (don't remember what those guys were rank, but I'm pretty sure both were in the top 10), but before then he was fighting the absolute best in his division. Fedor hasn't fought anyone worth a damn since Cro Cop, in my opinion, as I stated earlier.

Thales ranked at 9, barely made it on the list. Probably wouldn't have even made top 10 if he wasn't announced as Anderson's next opponent. Patrick was not a top 10 MW even when it was announced he would fight Anderson. So let's see, one opponent who barely made top 10, and one none ranked opponent. Yeah i know you only care about "your" rankings, but i would take a Arlovski who shouldn't be ranked second over those two. Arlovski would at least be top 5.

A couple of those names I think could defeat Fedor.

Do tell then, actually name them, and why you think they would. Besides Mir.

Lol... yes. Those rankings are shit, Marquis. And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question... do you think Arlovski could defeat any of those people?

Lets see if remember all the ones you named. Mir, of course i think he would tool Arlovski. Randy? I really don't know how you nor i can make a decision without seeing his fight against Nog. Hes had a year layoff only to come back and show us 1 round of fighting against Lesnar. I can't make a call on him till then. Barnett? Sure, now i think it at least. Lesnar? Nope. Arlovski's chin shouldn't matter in a fight with a man of Lesnar's size, chances are if he hits you you're knocked out. If a non hesitant Arlovski shows up, I'm confident he can take Lesnar. On the feet his hand speed would be too great for Lesnar, and on the ground Arlovski is a pretty accomplished Sambo practitioner, so i feel he would be able to pull something on Lesnar.

I knew that was going to get a rise out of you.
But no... look, I know had Fedor not landed that, in my opinion, lucky punch. he was eventually going to catch Arlovski with something nevertheless. But my opinion stands that that punch was luck, and that Arlovski was winning the fight before getting caught.

Who knew Jmt could be a joker.

If that's your opinion, that's fine, but i really would like hear from you how throwing your fist at exact right time was luck. The opening of the flying knee was a matter of seconds, maybe even less. And Arlovski, winning. Funny, really rewatch the fight. Its not long at all. I will repeat, no punches landed, only leg kicks. And when Fedor took him to the corner he dominated him.

A decent pool is still TEN TIMES better than what the UFC had when Sylvia and Arlovski were on top of the Heavyweight Division. And you can discredit all those names, but I'd be willing to bet that there's not a person on that list you discredited that you feel Arlovski or Sylvia could defeat, back then or today. Am I right?

Sylvia stand a chance against the current pool? Hell no, he would get dominated by most in my opinion. Arlovski? I think he would do decent. I could see him giving Kongo, Herring, Lesnar, and big Nog problems. But yes the pool is better then back then.

But I still don't believe that holds any ground in this argument when you look at who Arlovski defeated and what he did and has done since the Fedor fight.

Who he defeated? Again i remind you of the division we are talking about here, at the time those were fine wins he had. What has he done? Lost to a one dimensional striker in Roger who can knockout anyone in the sport i bet with those heavy hands? Its a shame the lost happened, especially when i feel with his hand speed he could have tooled Rogers, but this was probably for the best to make him realize he needs to stop trying to be a boxer. Also Arlovski may come out in a better light if Rogers beats Overeem which i doubt. Sadly the fight has been canceled.

Maybe it is both, lol, but the ****** recovered against Couture in their fight. Now, I'm not saying Couture is as good as Fedor on the ground, but if Sylvia could recover from that, then he could recover from what Fedor did to him I would believe. But he fucked up.

Ah, don't think so. As you said Coture ain't no Fedor on the ground, not many are really. Unless they hold multiple sambo championships from the past 10 years. Recovering from Randy, and recovering from Fedor's strikes and submissions is a very different matter.

No, I completely disagree. I think BJ would completely outbox Alves and win the battle on the feet. Did you ever watch Alves' fight against Chris Lytle? It was a damn good fight before it was stopped due to a cut, but Lytle was winning in my opinion because of his superior boxing. All Alves has are those powerful leg kicks, and as long as BJ defends those, which I strongly believe he would, he would pick apart Alves on the feet and win a decision, or perhaps even knock his ass down by way of a punch and sub him on the ground afterwards.

Tell me who has BJ boxed against to make you believe his stand up is so great in the past 3 years? A past his prime Pulver? Two wrestlers in Sherk and Stevenson? Its easy to look great against those three, considering one was way past his prime, and the other two are primarily wrestlers. And that thing about the Lyte fight is fine, but like i said when has BJ out striked an actual decent striker in the past 3 years? Or more even. Because of this, and those leg kicks you mentioned. I believe Alves would tool BJ in a stand up fight, but we really haven't seen a actual real test in a stand up fight for Alves either, till the GSP fight happens. Even then i see Alves tooling him, all he really has to do his holding him up against the cage and put all his weight on BJ till he gasses .

Even if he was the same Karo of old, BJ would still beat that motherfucker. On the feet, BJ is far superior, and on the ground... BJ is better. It would be close becasue Karo would get a couple of good takedowns and stay on top for a bit, but overall... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't matter what Karo Parisyan BJ Penn faced... he would stand more than a fair chance at defeating him.

I believe the Karo of old could probably pull out a decision on Penn.

 

[jmt225]

He did beat him, but did he look like a "monster"?

Yes, considering Lutter was fighting like Leites in that fight. Those elbows at the end in that triangle were fucking ruthless, man.

And I'm confident Fedor would be able to submit him.

I'm not. Fedor would beat the living hell out of Lutter, but I don't think he'd catch him in a submission.

So now its 3 years huh? Lol.

See, I actually thought the Leben fight happened in mid/late 2005, which is why I was saying 4 years, lmao.

So you admit Fedor is the greatest pound 4 pound to live currently,

Of all time, currently.

then i will admit that Anderson has fought tougher competition these past 3 years,

As you should, because it's true.

but. Even if he has, Fedor is still number one on my list.

Which is fine by me; at least you back it up with solid opinions unlike most of Fedor's fans.

Its not Fedor's fault that top competition in the heavyweight division was very non existent till recently.

I completely agree.

He fought ranked second(although you don't care) at the time Arlovski, i don't believe Arlovski really belonged in there, but what choice is there in a depleted division?

Well, Barnett, but he wouldn't step up for whatever reason, which was not Fedor's fault. So, yeah... I get what you're saying.

And now he will move on to fight Barnett, the current second ranked. So hes fighting top competition, just the competition doesn't really stack much to the MW divisions thanks to the HW division being depleted.

The difference between Josh Barnett and Fedor's last few opponents is that Barnett is actually worthy of being in the same ring as Fedor. All those other clowns Fedor has fought since Cro Cop never deserved to be in the same fucking building as Fedor Emelianenko, let alone in the same ring. I know it's not his fault, but it does hurt his status in a Pound 4 Pound best argument.

Emelianenko And soon enough Anderson will be having the same problem as Fedor. Outside of Okami, Maia is one dimensional, and well Bisping if he gets through Henderson. There isn't much left for him in the MW division outside of a few rematches.

Bisping will be a good, worthy contender if he gets past Henderson like you said. And Maia would be a worthy opponent as well. (I don't buy into the Okami hype)

But you're also forgetting guys like Vitor Belfort, Melvin Manhoef, and one or two Middleweight Fighters out there who could get signed by the UFC at any given time.

And LHW is apparently out of the question since hes good friends with Machida.

Yeah, but just because he doesn't want to fight the Light Heavyweight Champion, doesn't mean he won't beat the living hell out of others in the division, like Forrest Griffin.

The point is man, as long as Anderson Silva is in the UFC, he will always have someone good to fight. Always. UFC just did a terrible job booking his last two fights. I doubt that happens again, however.

Lol, you thought he wanted a knock out? Looked like to me he wanted a decision. Tell me what makes you think he wanted a knock out, the fact that he wanted to stand? One could say he just didn't want to go in the guard of a world class BJJ artist.

Yes, I strongly believe that. Anderson Silva's a legit black blet in BJJ, so I'm sure he's confident enough to get on the ground with ANYONE. However, he wants knockouts.

I see you missed when i said i never considered him a great fighter. Nitpick all you want on the wins besides the Rodriguez one, but those are still wins he holds.

It's not nitpicking, lol, it's fact. Tim Sylvia sucks and always has. He's no where near Fedor's league.

Thales ranked at 9, barely made it on the list. Probably wouldn't have even made top 10 if he wasn't announced as Anderson's next opponent. Patrick was not a top 10 MW even when it was announced he would fight Anderson. So let's see, one opponent who barely made top 10, and one none ranked opponent. Yeah i know you only care about "your" rankings, but i would take a Arlovski who shouldn't be ranked second over those two. Arlovski would at least be top 5.

The thing is though, you say Arlovski deserved the second ranking because he was on the 5 fight win streak. Well... Patrick Cote was on a 5 fight win streak when he fought Anderson, and so was Thales Leites. So, however you want to twist it... Anderson's last two fighters were on 5 fight win streaks, just like Arlovski was.

Do tell then, actually name them, and why you think they would. Besides Mir.

Fedor's a small Heavyweight, man. And I think Randy Couture would be able to take him down, stay on top and grind out a decision without ever getting caught in a submission. And on the feet, I don't think Fedor has a significant advantage. Overall Fedor is the better striker, but I think Couture would still be able to control the fight.

I think Lesnar is just too big and too strong for Fedor. I think he'd be able to just manhandle him to be quite honest. However, I'm not so sure about this one as I am about the Randy Couture fight. I'll have to see what Lesnar does against Mir before I can really believe he could defeat Fedor.

And man, quite frankly, I think Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida would both defeat Fedor. Fedor would strike with them and I don't see anyway he can beat either of them in a stand-up battle.

And you're going to hate me for saying this, but I think GSP would stand a fair shot at defeating him as well.

Lets see if remember all the ones you named. Mir, of course i think he would tool Arlovski. Randy? I really don't know how you nor i can make a decision without seeing his fight against Nog. Hes had a year layoff only to come back and show us 1 round of fighting against Lesnar. I can't make a call on him till then. Barnett? Sure, now i think it at least. Lesnar? Nope. Arlovski's chin shouldn't matter in a fight with a man of Lesnar's size, chances are if he hits you you're knocked out. If a non hesitant Arlovski shows up, I'm confident he can take Lesnar. On the feet his hand speed would be too great for Lesnar, and on the ground Arlovski is a pretty accomplished Sambo practitioner, so i feel he would be able to pull something on Lesnar.

Fair enough.

If that's your opinion, that's fine, but i really would like hear from you how throwing your fist at exact right time was luck. The opening of the flying knee was a matter of seconds, maybe even less. And Arlovski, winning. Funny, really rewatch the fight. Its not long at all. I will repeat, no punches landed, only leg kicks. And when Fedor took him to the corner he dominated him.

Maybe your right, but just from watching the fight, it looks to me like Fedor puts his head down and just throws the punch. But hey, if he knew what he was doing (which I admit is more then possible), then that's awesome.

And I must admit man... this is the greatest picture in the history of mankind:

Sylvia stand a chance against the current pool? Hell no, he would get dominated by most in my opinion. Arlovski? I think he would do decent. I could see him giving Kongo, Herring, Lesnar, and big Nog problems. But yes the pool is better then back then.

Yeah what's funny is that Fedor was fighting the top notch Heavyweights by NOT being in the UFC back from 2003 until his last fight against Cro Cop. Kind of ironic when you think about it.... today it's hurting his legacy by not being in the UFC, where it really helped when PRIDE was around.

Who he defeated? Again i remind you of the division we are talking about here, at the time those were fine wins he had. What has he done? Lost to a one dimensional striker in Roger who can knockout anyone in the sport i bet with those heavy hands? Its a shame the lost happened, especially when i feel with his hand speed he could have tooled Rogers, but this was probably for the best to make him realize he needs to stop trying to be a boxer. Also Arlovski may come out in a better light if Rogers beats Overeem which i doubt. Sadly the fight has been canceled.

I was rooting for Arlovski in that fight as well, but man.. the guy is just a disappointment.

And yeah.. Overeem is fighting Werdum for whatever reason. I can't stand Rogers, but he should've gotten a shot before Werdum of all people.

Ah, don't think so. As you said Coture ain't no Fedor on the ground, not many are really. Unless they hold multiple sambo championships from the past 10 years. Recovering from Randy, and recovering from Fedor's strikes and submissions is a very different matter.

Maybe so. Sylvia's still an imbecile though.

Tell me who has BJ boxed against to make you believe his stand up is so great in the past 3 years? A past his prime Pulver? Two wrestlers in Sherk and Stevenson? Its easy to look great against those three, considering one was way past his prime, and the other two are primarily wrestlers.

Well, Freddie Roach has gone on record saying that BJ Penn is the best boxer in MMA, so I'm not the only one who thinks highly of his skills in that department.

And BJ outboxed GSP in their first fight, used his boxing well against Lyoto Machida, outboxed on of the greatest strikers ever in Takanori Gomi, etc. While Penn's last few opponents aren't that impressive stand-up wise, before then he was showing how skilled he was on the feet and so far... nobody has been able to disprove it.

And that thing about the Lyte fight is fine, but like i said when has BJ out striked an actual decent striker in the past 3 years? Or more even.

Yeah, it's been quite a while, but those abilities don't just disappear.

Because of this, and those leg kicks you mentioned. I believe Alves would tool BJ in a stand up fight, but we really haven't seen a actual real test in a stand up fight for Alves either, till the GSP fight happens. Even then i see Alves tooling him, all he really has to do his holding him up against the cage and put all his weight on BJ till he gasses .

No, I think if Alves took it to the ground he'd get caught in a submission. People forget how great BJ is on the ground.

I believe the Karo of old could probably pull out a decision on Penn.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Marquis]

Yes, considering Lutter was fighting like Leites in that fight. Those elbows at the end in that triangle were fucking ruthless, man.

Fighting like Leites Lol? Luter actually got Anderson down.

I'm not. Fedor would beat the living hell out of Lutter, but I don't think he'd catch him in a submission.

Well looking at Lutter's grappling credentials, i see some good stuff, but i will stand by the opinion that Fedor could submit Lutter. I mean if Silva can, then i think Fedor has a good chance at it.

As you should, because it's true.

Or because I am fair and rational.

Which is fine by me; at least you back it up with solid opinions unlike most of Fedor's fans.

I really do dislike Fedor fans, but there's nothing i dislike more then BJ fans.

Well, Barnett, but he wouldn't step up for whatever reason, which was not Fedor's fault. So, yeah... I get what you're saying.

Barnett didn't want to step up because he considered Fedor a good friend. I'm glad they managed to put that aside for this fight.

The difference between Josh Barnett and Fedor's last few opponents is that Barnett is actually worthy of being in the same ring as Fedor. All those other clowns Fedor has fought since Cro Cop never deserved to be in the same fucking building as Fedor Emelianenko, let alone in the same ring.

I agree, except for Arlovski.

I know it's not his fault, but it does hurt his status in a Pound 4 Pound best argument.

Well hopefully a win over Barnett fixes this, though to be honest i want Barnett to win.

Bisping will be a good, worthy contender if he gets past Henderson like you said. And Maia would be a worthy opponent as well. (I don't buy into the Okami hype)

I think Maia is too one dimensional to be a decent opponent. I see a similar scenario to Thales's playing out for Maia in a match with Anderson.

But you're also forgetting guys like Vitor Belfort, Melvin Manhoef, and one or two Middleweight Fighters out there who could get signed by the UFC at any given time.

Well Vitor has shown interest in signing with the UFC, but he has said in interviews that Affliction has been great to him. So the whole matter of Vitor joining isn't as simple as it looks. Well unless Affliction folds. As for Manhoef, i would fuckin love to see him in the UFC. I honestly think hes the only person right now who can really give Anderson a hard time. He will come forward swinging with great hand speed, and if one of those fists catch you, its lights out. I could say the same for Vitor, but I'm not sure how aggressive the Vitor of today would be.

Yeah, but just because he doesn't want to fight the Light Heavyweight Champion, doesn't mean he won't beat the living hell out of others in the division, like Forrest Griffin.

Fighters like Griffin yeah, but contenders? I doubt they'll put him up against contenders for the belt, as they do need them. And it would be a lose situation for the UFC if Anderson beats their contender, yet doesn't bother to challenge for the belt.

The point is man, as long as Anderson Silva is in the UFC, he will always have someone good to fight. Always. UFC just did a terrible job booking his last two fights. I doubt that happens again, however.

It happened twice already as it is, i wouldn't be surprised to see it happen more, but his next opponent after Forest will be someone credible. Since it will be the winner of Bisping/Hendo.

Yes, I strongly believe that. Anderson Silva's a legit black blet in BJJ, so I'm sure he's confident enough to get on the ground with ANYONE. However, he wants knockouts.

Really? Even a black belt with some good credentials like Thales? I doubt it. And have you heard him say he wants knockouts? In interviews? I sure as hell haven't. You know what i have heard? That he doesn't care about the fans and won't risk his career. Read his interview with Tatame. Type "Anderson not risking career" in google. Its the third link.

It's not nitpicking, lol, it's fact. Tim Sylvia sucks and always has. He's no where near Fedor's league.

I agree.

The thing is though, you say Arlovski deserved the second ranking because he was on the 5 fight win streak. Well... Patrick Cote was on a 5 fight win streak when he fought Anderson, and so was Thales Leites. So, however you want to twist it... Anderson's last two fighters were on 5 fight win streaks, just like Arlovski was.

Apples and oranges my friend. Are Thales and Patrick fighting in a depleted division where competition is split between outside the UFC and inside the UFC? Nope. Have Thales and Patrick gone through what is considered decent competition in their division for title shots? Nope.

Fedor's a small Heavyweight, man. And I think Randy Couture would be able to take him down, stay on top and grind out a decision without ever getting caught in a submission. And on the feet, I don't think Fedor has a significant advantage. Overall Fedor is the better striker, but I think Couture would still be able to control the fight.

So is Randy, man. Keeping someone down is one thing, but keeping Fedor down when you don't even have a significant weight advantage? Don't think its possible.

I think Lesnar is just too big and too strong for Fedor. I think he'd be able to just manhandle him to be quite honest. However, I'm not so sure about this one as I am about the Randy Couture fight. I'll have to see what Lesnar does against Mir before I can really believe he could defeat Fedor.

I honestly think he would tool Lesnar. No matter where the fight goes, Lesnar is out matched. And where Lesnar holds the most advantage, which is the ground, is where he should fear Fedor the most. I would have Fedor by Submission in that fight.

And man, quite frankly, I think Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida would both defeat Fedor. Fedor would strike with them and I don't see anyway he can beat either of them in a stand-up battle.

Fedor's main style is Sambo, have you seen him throw doods around in pride? Well with a weight advantage over Silva, I'm sure Silva would be thrown around like a rag doll. From my understanding Silva cuts from around 215-220. The thing is, is that his walk around weight, or his actual weight when hes in shape? As for Lyoto, i wouldn't know how to call it. I would like to see Lyoto against more top notch competition before i can decide that.

And you're going to hate me for saying this, but I think GSP would stand a fair shot at defeating him as well.

And here i took you for someone who's always serious Business.

And I must admit man... this is the greatest picture in the history of mankind:

Arlovski's face is priceless.

Yeah what's funny is that Fedor was fighting the top notch Heavyweights by NOT being in the UFC back from 2003 until his last fight against Cro Cop. Kind of ironic when you think about it.... today it's hurting his legacy by not being in the UFC, where it really helped when PRIDE was around.

Well at least now hes gone back to fighting top notch HW's, such as Barnett. And once he hopefully destroys Overratedeem, we can see him in the UFC.

I was rooting for Arlovski in that fight as well, but man.. the guy is just a disappointment.

Well here's to hoping he goes back to the basics.

And yeah.. Overeem is fighting Werdum for whatever reason. I can't stand Rogers, but he should've gotten a shot before Werdum of all people.

Well at least now that Overeem is fighting Werdum he may actually convince me that he isn't overrated. I would rank a win over Werdum above a win over Rogers.

Maybe so. Sylvia's still an imbecile though.

Agreed.

Well, Freddie Roach has gone on record saying that BJ Penn is the best boxer in MMA, so I'm not the only one who thinks highly of his skills in that department.

Roach also thought Arlovski was winning his fight with Fedor. I'll take his word for boxing, but striking in MMA? not so much.

And BJ outboxed GSP in their first fight, used his boxing well against Lyoto Machida, outboxed on of the greatest strikers ever in Takanori Gomi, etc. While Penn's last few opponents aren't that impressive stand-up wise, before then he was showing how skilled he was on the feet and so far... nobody has been able to disprove it.

That's fine and dandy, but i said past three years.

Yeah, it's been quite a while, but those abilities don't just disappear.

But they can't be as polished as they were when fighting non strikers for the past three years. Will see where his striking stands against Kenny, who actually has decent Muay Thai.

No, I think if Alves took it to the ground he'd get caught in a submission. People forget how great BJ is on the ground.

I don't forget how great his BJJ is, but why would it go to the ground? I think BJ stands a good chance of submitting him, i just don't see how he'll ever get him down.

 

[jmt225]

Fighting like Leites Lol? Luter actually got Anderson down.

Yeah, which shows Anderson's takedown defense has gotten much better over the past couple of years.

Well looking at Lutter's grappling credentials, i see some good stuff, but i will stand by the opinion that Fedor could submit Lutter. I mean if Silva can, then i think Fedor has a good chance at it.

Maybe so, but my point was that it was very impressive that Silva would submit someone like that in the first place, when EVERYONE thought if it went to the ground Lutter would have him beat. Just shows how well rounded the guy is.

Or because I am fair and rational.

That, and because it's a true statement.

I really do dislike Fedor fans, but there's nothing i dislike more then BJ fans.

Haha... well, I can't fault you for that. I am a big BJ Penn fan, but I'm not a hardcore BJ fan. Hardcore BJ fans would be arguing you right now that BJ is P4P the very best in the World and could take Fedor on in a fight, lol.

If anything, I will always admit that I'm biased towards Tito Ortiz and the Diaz brothers. Those are the guys where some of my views may be a bit blinded towards.

Barnett didn't want to step up because he considered Fedor a good friend. I'm glad they managed to put that aside for this fight.

Me too.

Well hopefully a win over Barnett fixes this, though to be honest i want Barnett to win.

It will if he does it in dominating fashion. I mean, if Fedor wins a borefest, then that hurts him as much as a loss.

And I'm not sure who I'm rooting for. I really like Fedor and Barnett, but since my good friend's favorite fighter is Fedor and he's going to be there in person to see the fight... that makes me want to see Fedor win so Dev (my friend) will have a blast at the event.

I think Maia is too one dimensional to be a decent opponent. I see a similar scenario to Thales's playing out for Maia in a match with Anderson.

But at least Maia attacks. He wouldn't just stand back and fall on his butt like a little bitch every time Silva came towards me.

Well Vitor has shown interest in signing with the UFC, but he has said in interviews that Affliction has been great to him. So the whole matter of Vitor joining isn't as simple as it looks. Well unless Affliction folds.

Yeah but if it does, it'll definitely be an interesting fight to say the least.

As for Manhoef, i would fuckin love to see him in the UFC. I honestly think hes the only person right now who can really give Anderson a hard time. He will come forward swinging with great hand speed, and if one of those fists catch you, its lights out. I could say the same for Vitor, but I'm not sure how aggressive the Vitor of today would be.

Agreed.

Fighters like Griffin yeah, but contenders? I doubt they'll put him up against contenders for the belt, as they do need them. And it would be a lose situation for the UFC if Anderson beats their contender, yet doesn't bother to challenge for the belt.

Yeah, but you know... there will still be worthy opponents for him in that division. Tough opponents that people won't question the victory when Anderson defeats them.

It happened twice already as it is, i wouldn't be surprised to see it happen more, but his next opponent after Forest will be someone credible. Since it will be the winner of Bisping/Hendo.

I think the UFC learned from that mistake though.

Really? Even a black belt with some good credentials like Thales? I doubt it.

Yes, I'm not saying Anderson would submit him, but he would definitely know how to get through the rounds without getting submitted.

And have you heard him say he wants knockouts? In interviews? I sure as hell haven't.

No, but all you have to do to realize that is watch the Cote fight. Cote has HORRIBLE Jiu-Jitsu and I'm sure Anderson knew that. But he wanted to bang with him, even though that was Cote's strong suit. He wanted a knockout, and I believe he wants that in EVERY fight, including the fight against Thales.

You know what i have heard? That he doesn't care about the fans and won't risk his career. Read his interview with Tatame. Type "Anderson not risking career" in google. Its the third link.

We say shit we don't mean when we're emotional and angry about something. I'm sure Silva would take that back if he could.

Apples and oranges my friend. Are Thales and Patrick fighting in a depleted division where competition is split between outside the UFC and inside the UFC? Nope.

True.

Have Thales and Patrick gone through what is considered decent competition in their division for title shots? Nope.

I disagree here, though. Cote and Thales last five wins probably weren't very impressive, but it's not like Arlovski's opponents were any better.

So is Randy, man. Keeping someone down is one thing, but keeping Fedor down when you don't even have a significant weight advantage? Don't think its possible.

I know Randy is small, but he's still very, very strong. Just look at the Tito Ortiz and Brock Lesnar fights. He was able to fucking MANHANDLE Tito for 5 rounds like he was nothing, and Tito Ortiz is a fucking strong motherfucker and a fantastic wrestler. And against Lesnar... he was able to stop a couple of takedowns from that behemoth, and also keep him up against the cage a few times as well. Randy's a strong, strong dude, man.

I honestly think he would tool Lesnar. No matter where the fight goes, Lesnar is out matched. And where Lesnar holds the most advantage, which is the ground, is where he should fear Fedor the most. I would have Fedor by Submission in that fight.

Maybe you're right, but let's see how Lesnar does against Mir. If Lesnar destroys Mir, then my opinion will be that he could do the same to Fedor.

Fedor's main style is Sambo, have you seen him throw doods around in pride? Well with a weight advantage over Silva, I'm sure Silva would be thrown around like a rag doll. From my understanding Silva cuts from around 215-220. The thing is, is that his walk around weight, or his actual weight when hes in shape?

But I think if Fedor tries to get Anderson in the position to throw him around, then he'll end up in Silva's clinch and eat countless knees like Rich Franklin did. I just see no way Fedor could defeat Silva. No way, honestly.

As for Lyoto, i wouldn't know how to call it. I would like to see Lyoto against more top notch competition before i can decide that.

Fair enough.

Well at least now hes gone back to fighting top notch HW's, such as Barnett. And once he hopefully destroys Overratedeem, we can see him in the UFC.

Agreed.

Roach also thought Arlovski was winning his fight with Fedor.

That's only because he was training him. The opinion there was biased.

I'll take his word for boxing, but striking in MMA? not so much.

Yeah I wouldn't say he's the best striker in MMA; that's Anderson Silva. But boxing... the guy is very, very good.

That's fine and dandy, but i said past three years.

I know you did, but it's not BJ's fault he hasn't been in the octagon against any strikers recently. But if you look at his history... there's reason to believe why he's such a great boxer.

But they can't be as polished as they were when fighting non strikers for the past three years.

As long as he still has the same training regimen, then I believe it can be.

Will see where his striking stands against Kenny, who actually has decent Muay Thai.

Definitely. Can't wait for that one. These next three months will answer a lot of fucking questions about the fighters in this sport, and could very well be the best three months in MMA history.

I don't forget how great his BJJ is, but why would it go to the ground? I think BJ stands a good chance of submitting him, i just don't see how he'll ever get him down.

See I missread what you said, my bad. When you said, "all he really has to do his holding him up against the cage and put all his weight on BJ till he gasses" I read it too fast and thought you were talking about holding him on the ground. But yeah.. you're right, Alves could win a fight like that. He'd be a bitch for doing so though, lol.