A Goat and a Lionheart in the island of misfit toys.

AegonTargaryen

Championship Contender
As Mark Madden rightly puts it, Wrestling has always been and will always be an island of misfits(or misfit toys or whatever). Consider two immensely talented wrestlers from two entirely different generations.

On one hand, you have Chris Jericho, who inspires nothing but trust, wisdom, knowledge, passion, and enthusiasm in everything he does. He is not just a talented wrestler, but a decent rock singer(yes, decent here is a euphemism for mediocre), author, and more. He has lived, breathed, and consumed pro wrestling for two decades. Some will say he's amusing, funny, entertaining, and possesses a refinement in his overall bearing outside the ring., despite all his accomplishments. He's a likeable guy, at least IMO.

On the other hand, there's Daniel Bryan, with the same amount of exemplary passion and knowledge in pro wrestling, has quite a diverse independent scene and ROH experience (though it cannot be compared to the one Jericho had, travelling to Japan, Mexico , ECW, WCW, that cannot be duplicated or attained today, for no amount of money). One could say he's a good wrestler. He may or may not be as multi-talented and possessing refinement and finesse as characteristic of an extremely charismatic, talented and intelligent person ouside the ring as Chris Jericho. But they're both great wrestlers with a largely similar size.

Consider Bryan as an extension of Chris Jericho, or the 2010s version of Chris Jericho with a different gimmick.

Some speculate that in 2002, Chris Jericho was slowly buried into the obscurity of mid-card and tag-teaming with Christian because of one HHH. It is pretty obvious that for "paying his dues" and "mastering his craft" and being the best over-all wrestler/performer on Raw in 2002, next only to Shawn Michaels, Jericho's career was a downward trajectory. It is not great success to spend 8 months on Raw tag-teaming with Christian and facing the likes of Goldust and Booker T on a weekly basis. That's Dudley Bums' or Hardy Bums' forte. And then elevated to feud with Shawn Michaels. Once again dropped to the mid-card, fighting for the IC title and feuding with Christian the remainder of 2003 and all of 2004. Before getting his only one-on-one championship match against John Cena at Summerslam 2005, Chris Jericho was used largely to feud for the IC title, money in the bank, etc. elevating others such as Shelton Benjamin(lost to him cleanly on two pay-per-views, Taboo Tuesday '04, Backlash '05). It is no wonder Chris Jericho decided to focus much more on Fozzy and quit the company in the Summer of 2005.

Consider Sheamus as the modern-day HHH. (at least in HHH's eyes). Consider Sheamus(but it's HHH all along) scoffing and thinking someone like Daniel Bryan being the WHC(it is Chris Jericho really), and then burying him at WM (just how the management/HHH bid it to be). In Chris Jericho's case, there certainly weren't any arenawide YES chants to redeem him. He had to simply accept his fate and role as a supporting talent at best and he played that role as well he could from 2002-2005 and as JR would say "By God" he played that role to perfection.
But Bryan had and still has the support of the WWE Universe. However, despite his few classic matches with C M Punk in 2012(on Raw and on pay-per-view), Daniel Bryan's career was no different than Jericho's as he spent almost a year tag-teaming with Kane , again, a very small supporting role.

Fast forward to 2013, Daniel Bryan beats John Cena, but once again HHH decides to suppress him(in storyline, it was overt , but how much of HHH scoffs and mocks Daniel Bryan, like he would, if the WWE universe had wanted Jericho as champion back from 2002-2005?) Once again, Randy Orton is the new HHH, Daniel Bryan is the new Chris Jericho, only much more popular despite not being as good as Jericho in terms of charisma or mic work(but then, the chant). Does this make sense?

Is wrestling all about egos? Has HHH's ego been the worst to ever wreck, suppress, or diminish careers?

He surely couldn't stand or see someone like C.M. Punk(skinny fat ass, and one could see in HHH's face and eyes genuine contempt for someone like Punk being a champion/mainstay, but a face HHH only did what is best for business for the WWE Universe).

Will Daniel Bryan be given what C.M.Punk was? Especially in an era where there's only one major championship?

Are we only going to see Sheamus', Batistas, and Randy Ortons pushed constantly to be champions, and even John Cena wins it for the 15th, 16th,..time..ad infinitum?

Will Bryan's obvious flaws/shortcomings in not being tall enough(Jericho is 5'11 which is quite near the standard 6'1 as Cena, C.M.Punk is almost/perfect 6'1), and certainly not being as good as either Jericho or Punk on the mic(and I don't think my view/opinion is wrong or biased AT ALL) hinder him(as it did Jericho, lack of size, HHH burials)?

Will we only see Bryan used how Jericho was used? to elevate wrestlers of far lesser in-ring ability (and that's undeniable) as Batista, Sheamus, Orton, etc. ?

Wrestling truly looks like an island of egos and misfits. Jericho had an immense career. He is the one exception to what has been a Wrestling Rule that when someone is that good and their size prevents them or are subservient to BIG MEN and in trying to steal shows wrestle much more intense and demanding styles, they eventually fuck up, abuse drugs, painkillers, etc. (See- Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit)
 
Another in a long line of gloom & doom editorials from Mark Madden. I've long since stopped reading his stuff because, for all intents & purposes, it's the same old shit each & every time. He's slamming Dixie Carter "The Money Mark", rags on anything & everything about TNA, rags on WWE, rags on Triple H, rags on Vince, says that he doesn't really like "fake wrestling" all that much, etc.

Not that he doesn't make very good points sometimes, because he does, but the guy's the ultimate smark in that there's pretty much nothing that can take place that pleases him unless it's something that's EXACTLY what he feels should be going on. Any deviation from that, and here comes the barrage of complaints. It doesn't matter if what's going on is actually entertaining to many others because, to him, it's lousy because it's not what he would do.

In regards to Daniel Bryan, who knows what the future holds for him? Nobody could have predicted the outrage fans voiced when Bryan wasn't even included in the 2014 Royal Rumble match. However, I believe that Vince McMahon is somebody that's heavily underestimated Bryan's popularity and the Royal Rumble was his wake up call. A lot of people have made the claim of Vince being out of touch with fans and not pushing Daniel Bryan as heavily as he should is one of the genuine instances in which that argument has some real merit. WWE fans genuinely like Daniel Bryan and they want to see him do well. He's not as dynamic on the mic as guys like The Rock, CM Punk or Chris Jericho but, in my opinion, he doesn't necessarily have to be. Fans have rallied around him and they WANT to cheer for him. They care about him, they're invested in what he's doing, they LOVE seeing him wrestle, his segments on WWE TV are among the most watched on the show, sometimes his segments are the most watched on the show, he's one of the top merchandise sellers on the roster. He might not be "larger than life", but that seems to suit most fans just fine. His popularity goes FAR beyond a simple catchphrase, otherwise it would have fizzled out a long time ago.

Will he ever be "the face" of WWE? Six months ago, I'd have said that Bryan was going to be the next Chris Jericho. He could be someone who flowed in & out of the upper mid-card & main event scenes seamlessly, would have a couple of runs as the top champion here & there, could put over other guys without having his own stock lowered and has a rep for putting together some of the highest quality matches on the card. However, I'm not sure. I'm still leaning more towards a Jericho based role, but fans have obviously chosen Bryan as someone they want for a top level guy. CM Punk is gone, Cena says that his body is beat to hell, Batista isn't the overwhelming favorite WWE was hoping for in the eyes of the fans, Orton does great work but some are just bored with him and fans have no desire to see two guys who had mediocre feuds for the title in 2009 headline WrestleMania XXX. Right now, the top guys in WWE are getting older and/or their bodies are taking a pounding so the and fans seem to have chosen Daniel Bryan as a top guy. He's stepped up to the plate and he's knocked it out of the park every time he's come up to bat. He may not have the sort of look, character or image that Vince would have chosen to be "the face" of WWE, but times are changing. When Jericho was on the scene, he had the misfortune of being around when guys like Stone Cold & The Rock were still all over the place, HBK, Triple H, Mysterio & Taker were still regulars on TV & ppvs, John Cena & Orton were on the rise by 2004, etc. Here we are 10 years later and most of those guys are either retired, appear very rarely, are beat to hell & don't have much more time left or have been on top for so long that fans are bored with them & want something fresh. If there's ever a time for Bryan to genuinely rise to the level of a top tier guy in WWE, it's now.
 
Just me or does anyone else the Jericho-esque potential in Sami Zayn? Similar sized, Canadian, outstanding in ring performers. I realise Jericho is way better on the mike, but give Zayn a manager or a mentor for a bit of time to let him build those skills. Hell, why not make Y2J his manager for a couple of months? I for one would love to see Zayn slap on the Walls and sit back into it the way Y2J did, or the way Bret sank into the Sharpshooter. My fear is they're going to use Zayn in a similar way to Mysterio/Evan Bourne, but he has so much more to offer than that. I'm not saying he'll ever challenge for the WWE WHC, but he would be a great intercontinental/mid card champ.
 
Another in a long line of gloom & doom editorials from Mark Madden. I've long since stopped reading his stuff because, for all intents & purposes, it's the same old shit each & every time. He's slamming Dixie Carter "The Money Mark", rags on anything & everything about TNA, rags on WWE, rags on Triple H, rags on Vince, says that he doesn't really like "fake wrestling" all that much, etc.

Not that he doesn't make very good points sometimes, because he does, but the guy's the ultimate smark in that there's pretty much nothing that can take place that pleases him unless it's something that's EXACTLY what he feels should be going on. Any deviation from that, and here comes the barrage of complaints. It doesn't matter if what's going on is actually entertaining to many others because, to him, it's lousy because it's not what he would do.

In regards to Daniel Bryan, who knows what the future holds for him? Nobody could have predicted the outrage fans voiced when Bryan wasn't even included in the 2014 Royal Rumble match. However, I believe that Vince McMahon is somebody that's heavily underestimated Bryan's popularity and the Royal Rumble was his wake up call. A lot of people have made the claim of Vince being out of touch with fans and not pushing Daniel Bryan as heavily as he should is one of the genuine instances in which that argument has some real merit. WWE fans genuinely like Daniel Bryan and they want to see him do well. He's not as dynamic on the mic as guys like The Rock, CM Punk or Chris Jericho but, in my opinion, he doesn't necessarily have to be. Fans have rallied around him and they WANT to cheer for him. They care about him, they're invested in what he's doing, they LOVE seeing him wrestle, his segments on WWE TV are among the most watched on the show, sometimes his segments are the most watched on the show, he's one of the top merchandise sellers on the roster. He might not be "larger than life", but that seems to suit most fans just fine. His popularity goes FAR beyond a simple catchphrase, otherwise it would have fizzled out a long time ago.

Will he ever be "the face" of WWE? Six months ago, I'd have said that Bryan was going to be the next Chris Jericho. He could be someone who flowed in & out of the upper mid-card & main event scenes seamlessly, would have a couple of runs as the top champion here & there, could put over other guys without having his own stock lowered and has a rep for putting together some of the highest quality matches on the card. However, I'm not sure. I'm still leaning more towards a Jericho based role, but fans have obviously chosen Bryan as someone they want for a top level guy. CM Punk is gone, Cena says that his body is beat to hell, Batista isn't the overwhelming favorite WWE was hoping for in the eyes of the fans, Orton does great work but some are just bored with him and fans have no desire to see two guys who had mediocre feuds for the title in 2009 headline WrestleMania XXX. Right now, the top guys in WWE are getting older and/or their bodies are taking a pounding so the and fans seem to have chosen Daniel Bryan as a top guy. He's stepped up to the plate and he's knocked it out of the park every time he's come up to bat. He may not have the sort of look, character or image that Vince would have chosen to be "the face" of WWE, but times are changing. When Jericho was on the scene, he had the misfortune of being around when guys like Stone Cold & The Rock were still all over the place, HBK, Triple H, Mysterio & Taker were still regulars on TV & ppvs, John Cena & Orton were on the rise by 2004, etc. Here we are 10 years later and most of those guys are either retired, appear very rarely, are beat to hell & don't have much more time left or have been on top for so long that fans are bored with them & want something fresh. If there's ever a time for Bryan to genuinely rise to the level of a top tier guy in WWE, it's now.

You shed quite a bit of light. But don't you think despite John Cena and most of the stars from the 1990s and 2000s who will soon be permanently gone(including Kane, Big Show, Christian, John Cena, Batista and Orton), the WWE is already ready for their big-man "face" in Roman Reigns? You've got to admit, even though we don't know yet whether he could be a great talker or not, he'll be chosen to lead the WWE now that there's only one WWE WHC and no brand split. That can be evidenced by:- 1)He WAS given a spot in the rumble, which isn't much. 2)But more importantly, he was booked to seem dominant and break Kane's 2011 record, and he did a pretty good job too. Roman Reigns is even naturally likeable , charismatic. I see a lot of The Rock in him, only possessing killer looks and charisma that comes with his features, hair, etc. (Though the rock himself was/is quite a huge athletic guy)

Apart from Reigns, or other big guys that could be given the WWE WHC like Wade Barret, Sheamus, Big E, Jack Swagger , Bryan will have a hard time with the upsurge of the talent we have now, both good at talking, and wrestling such as Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt(he's too plump, though), Dolph Ziggler, Antonio Cesaro, etc.

These are the most exciting times in Wrestling after a long time. There's also an advent of more performers from indies or elsewhere if I'm not mistaken, due to NXT. Sami Zyn or Zayn, not quite sure about these guys since I never watch NXT.
 
Just me or does anyone else the Jericho-esque potential in Sami Zayn? Similar sized, Canadian, outstanding in ring performers. I realise Jericho is way better on the mike, but give Zayn a manager or a mentor for a bit of time to let him build those skills. Hell, why not make Y2J his manager for a couple of months? I for one would love to see Zayn slap on the Walls and sit back into it the way Y2J did, or the way Bret sank into the Sharpshooter. My fear is they're going to use Zayn in a similar way to Mysterio/Evan Bourne, but he has so much more to offer than that. I'm not saying he'll ever challenge for the WWE WHC, but he would be a great intercontinental/mid card champ.

I 've never watched him wrestle, but I'm pretty excited for the future. The number of potential stars I see is quite big. Damien Sandow ,Ziggler, Cesaro, Rollins, Ambrose, Wade Barret(I find him amusing in the Bad News Barret gimmick), Bray Wyatt, etc. Roman Reigns is already destined to be the next WWE WHC before 2014 ends(hopefully).

I also believe there'll be much more talent coming, due to NXT, including Sami Zayn. I can't wait to get back to watching wrestling, including wrestling matches on youtube because I missed a lot. Do you have any idea why they released Chris Hero? seemed to me like a taller version of C.M. Punk. Can't wait to watch his work with Antonio Cesaro as Kings of Wrestling. He should 've been on the RAW roster!!
 
On the other hand, there's Daniel Bryan, with the same amount of exemplary passion and knowledge in pro wrestling, has quite a diverse independent scene and ROH experience (though it cannot be compared to the one Jericho had, travelling to Japan, Mexico , ECW, WCW, that cannot be duplicated or attained today, for no amount of money). One could say he's a good wrestler. He may or may not be as multi-talented and possessing refinement and finesse as characteristic of an extremely charismatic, talented and intelligent person ouside the ring as Chris Jericho. But they're both great wrestlers with a largely similar size.

I agree with most of what you said, but this was silly.
Bryan Danielson has wrestled for MCW, ROH, CZW, FIP, PWG, Dragon Gate USA and FCW in States.
wXw in Germany.
ASW, FWA, WAW and Premier in the UK.
And NOAH and NJPW in Japan where he gained the nickname American Dragon, with the Dragon moniker being something that usually only native performers are permitted to use, much like how Eddie Guerrero used the Tiger gimmick.
I really don't think that Jericho's experience is that much different than Bryan's in that both seem to have followed the same path, other than Mexico. But Bryan spent more time in Japan, so it evens out.
The days of WWE performers having that kind of Worldwide experience are pretty much over, but I certainly wouldn't say Bryan doesn't belong in the same experience category as your Jerichos and Benoit's. He's paid his dues the way almost no one else left on the roster has.
 
Do you have any idea why they released Chris Hero? seemed to me like a taller version of C.M. Punk.

Essentially I believe (and people can correct me if I'm wrong) is because he refused to get in shape. Even though he didn't have stamina issues and put on great matches, he didn't have a six pack and refused to get one. Also he was 33 and they didn't have any plans for him. And he "complained" in confidence to some fellow talent when Cesaro (his tag partner) was called up to the main roster and he wasn't. The talent then went and told management and this seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

However I'm happy he's back in ROH working a program with AJ Styles and The Decade
 
I agree with most of what you said, but this was silly.
Bryan Danielson has wrestled for MCW, ROH, CZW, FIP, PWG, Dragon Gate USA and FCW in States.
wXw in Germany.
ASW, FWA, WAW and Premier in the UK.
And NOAH and NJPW in Japan where he gained the nickname American Dragon, with the Dragon moniker being something that usually only native performers are permitted to use, much like how Eddie Guerrero used the Tiger gimmick.
I really don't think that Jericho's experience is that much different than Bryan's in that both seem to have followed the same path, other than Mexico. But Bryan spent more time in Japan, so it evens out.
The days of WWE performers having that kind of Worldwide experience are pretty much over, but I certainly wouldn't say Bryan doesn't belong in the same experience category as your Jerichos and Benoit's. He's paid his dues the way almost no one else left on the roster has.

Wow! That's quite a list there. That sure is the equivalent of a rare worldwide experience which was the case with the likes of Jericho and Benoit. I also remember watching on youtube a clip from Velocity or Heat from 2002 or 2003 Daniel Bryan vs John Cena. ! How somebody can go from wrestling on Heat , trying to make ends meet, travel the world, and 10 years later Wrestle John Cena for the WWE championship at Summerslam!
 
Wow somebody can go from wrestling on Heat , trying to make ends meet, travel the world, and 10 years later Wrestle John Cena for the WWE championship at Summerslam!

It is a dying breed unfortunately, the guys who have done it that way are the "indy" guys that get hated on sometimes. Guys like Bryan, Punk, Cesaro, Rollins, Ambrose, Bourne, Zayn, and a lot of the NXT roster. They'd drive for hours on end to get to a show, perform, be paid barely anything, shower and get back in the car.
 
It is a dying breed unfortunately, the guys who have done it that way are the "indy" guys that get hated on sometimes. Guys like Bryan, Punk, Cesaro, Rollins, Ambrose, Bourne, Zayn, and a lot of the NXT roster. They'd drive for hours on end to get to a show, perform, be paid barely anything, shower and get back in the car.

I see! I am very high on Antonio Cesaro and find him a very awesome wrestler with legitimate strength. I have been busy with academics and haven't been following wrestling because it got boring ever since 2010(Departure of Shawn, Edge, Jericho), but I watched 2-3 matches in 2013( featuring The Shield). I can't wait to watch on youtube, all ROH classics, indie matches featuring Daniel Bryan , Chris Hero, Punk, Cesaro , etc. These guys seem to me so much more talented than the usual WWE cookie-cutter wrestlers like Batista and Randy Orton(Orton got boring because there is only so many hundreds of times one will awe at RKO, Rope DDT, and his awesome dropkick)
 
I see! I am very high on Antonio Cesaro and find him a very awesome wrestler with legitimate strength. I have been busy with academics and haven't been following wrestling because it got boring ever since 2010(Departure of Shawn, Edge, Jericho), but I watched 2-3 matches in 2013( featuring The Shield). I can't wait to watch on youtube, all ROH classics, indie matches featuring Daniel Bryan , Chris Hero, Punk, Cesaro , etc. These guys seem to me so much more talented than the usual WWE cookie-cutter wrestlers like Batista and Randy Orton(Orton got boring because there is only so many hundreds of times one will awe at RKO, Rope DDT, and his awesome dropkick)

You need to check out this match then.
 

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