A Change In Evolution

[Little Jerry Lawler]

We all know that Randy Orton was kicked out of Evolution the night after winning the World Heavyweight Championship at Summerslam in 2004. His former Evolution member Batista would go on to win the Royal Rumble in 2005 and beat HHH for the title Orton would have a failed face run after winning the title and Batista would be white hot before he won his. Now they are arguably the best heels on their respective brands and both have had pretty successful careers.

How would things have turned out if the roles were reversed? I believe Orton would have been better off first than Batista because he was having great matches with Foley and Edge before he even won the title. Batista wasn't hot until around November and I think he would have flopped holding the title just as Orton did. Batista would have taken a while to settle himself in and possibly would have turned heel again early like Orton. I still believe they would have ended up the same as they are now, just that Batista would take a while if he won the title in 2004 instead of Orton.


Would things have been different if Batista was the one kicked out of Evolution and Orton winning the title at WM 21? If so, what would be the paths of Batista and Orton and would either be at the same position they are today?

 

[Via Armbar]

I think the reason Batista got so hot in the first place was people hatred for Triple H. Almost anybody could have been put in his position at the time, anybody could have been a pain in Trips's ass and gotten over. So if he had taken Orton's place, it would have been a bigger flop then Randy's face turn because people barely gave a shit about Batista at the time. Orton was very over and had been having great fueds for a year. Whereas Batista had been hanging around either gaurding the rest of Evolution or tagging with Flair. He was strictly muscle until Evolutions breakup had been started.

As to what would become of Orton, he would of taken Batista's place at Wrestlemania 21 for sure and Batista probably would have taken Randy's place in his match against Taker. That's where things would change the big picture. Would Batista have not won another world title for 2 years like Orton had after his first title win? Those kinds of things are huge what if's and coulda beens, but I think in the long run things would have turned out like they are now with both men in the same positions they're in currently. Randy eventually got his Mania match with Triple H and Batista eventually got his match with Taker, so everything works out.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

I think Batista's age had a lot to do with him being pushed so early. Plus, you also have to factor in the fact that he is VERY injury prone, and that's why I think Vince wanted to get all he could out of him while he was very popular during this time. Orton winning the title at Mania 21 probably would've been a better moment because he was being groomed as the future of WWE,and HHH betraying him was more personal, while Batista was really just the enforcer and muscle of Evolution.

While I do think Orton winning the title at Mania would've been a better moment, in the long run, it probably would not have been such a good idea. Orton beating HHH for the title at Mania would mean he would have to remain a face, and during this time his run as a face wasn't worth remembering. Orton as a heel is way better than him being a face because over time we have seen he's way better at being the evil heel. Now of course years later Orton would get his revenge on HHH in 2009. They feuded here and there over the years, but 2009 was the year that Orton got his payback by going after HHH's family. Him feuding with HHH back in 2005 would've probably ended this rivalry a lot earlier, and it most likely would not have went on for four years.

Batista would still be in the main event no matter what. In fact, he probably would've went to Smack down a lot earlier, and HHH VS Orton would've been the main feud on Raw for a while. Batista will always bee in the main event becuase he has "the look", size, and intensity, and when he's a face, this is something the crowd loves.

Orton and Batista would still have multiple world championship titles to their names, and be in the main event today no matter how things went. Being in Evolution alongside Ric Flair and Triple H meant that WWE had big plans for them, and as time has gone by, that has proven to be true.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

In response to "what would be the paths of Batista and Orton and would either be at the same position they are today?", I am not sure things would have turned out so differently. I view Orton as the farrrrr superior wrestler, in every aspect from in ring work to mic skills. But they have reached about equal heights since Evolution, so I am not sure where to go with this. I would hope Batista just fades away and is kind of forgotten about (he doesn't seem to care much about the business), while I hope Orton is around for another 15 years or so and reaches heights equal to Flair, HBK, HHH, Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc.

 

[goldbergiswrestling]

am I the only one that thinks they wouldnt be in the same position? I think Orton would still be the biggest heel in the WWE he would have stayed popular from wrestlemania on.

Batista however as others have said was mainly right place right time, he got a way bigger push than orton, he got pushed into wrestlemania and Triple H. He got put over the biggest superstar in the industry at the time. Triple H had been the champion for the majority of the past 2 years.

Randy Orton got put over Chris Benoit, allthough Chris Benoit is talented he wasnt a big enough star to make somebody else a star.

A month later Randy dropped the belt to Triple H. and faded from the title picture for a few years. A month after batista won the championship he beat Triple H again. A month later beat Triple H again and got traded to smackdown and continued his reign.

I dont personally believe that Batista ever would have bounced back from his fall like Orton did. I dont think he has the personality for it.

 

[mister_b1LL]

In my opinion I don't think it would look plausible. Batista, despite his wrestling, is one scary ass looking dude. In my opinion, a beatdown similar to the one Orton took at the hands of Evolution just wouldn't look as plausible if Batista was at the other end of those punches. And just like Via Armbar, at that point and time, no one really gave a rip about Batista cause he was just an enforcer.

 

[XgringolocoX]

I don't think there'd be really any difference. I think if Batista was the one kicked out he wouldn't have gone as long to his 2nd title reign. Yes Orton is better in the ring and on the stick, but Batista can to at least one thing better. Go from Face to Heel. Orton has proven he sucks at being a face. Batista is over either way. In this one regard he is more versatile than Orton.
IMO it had to go down the way it did simple due to the size difference between the two, and the age. Orton was the young student. He went and upstaged his professor, and got detention for a few years for his actions. The choice to go after the leader had to come from the enforcer. It just makes sense. This was something WWE got right.

 

[mrrrrrrrrr. kennedy!!!!!!]

I have to disagree with Via Armbar in that i dont think batista got over cuz of hatred for HHH. I might be wrong but i have NYR 05 dvd and before that chamber match twhen HHH came out he probably got the biggest pop of any one in the match and he was a heel at the time, but they were in puerto rico so maybe that changes things idk.

In my opinion batista got over cuz people were lookin for a new great big man to cheer for and batista was actuallygood back then he wasnt slow and washed up like he is now...

But i do agree that not much would have changed cuz they were both under HHH so they were both gonna get over in a big way one way or another i mean look at sheamus he won the title after what a month on raw so yea i think things would be about the same

 

[Dagger Dias]

Would things have been different if Batista was the one kicked out of Evolution and Orton winning the title at WM 21? If so, what would be the paths of Batista and Orton and would either be at the same position they are today?

Batista would win the title from Benoit and then get kicked out of Evolution. Batista would feud with Triple H a bit and still turn face while Orton stays in the protege role until the rumble, which he would then win. By Wrestlemania Trips would have gotten the World Championship back and Batista would begin feuding with Taker, Orton wins the rumble and challenges Trips. It would be a heel VS heel feud but those can work when done right. Orton defeats Trips and has a big moment at Wrestlemania 21 while Batista loses to Taker.

Then after that, Orton would have to lose the belt at some point because his career had not taken off yet to the point where he could main event as often as he does now. Batista would likely get the title after Orton wins the feud with Trips. Cena and Batista switch brands as well as the titles during the draft in the summer. Orton would face Taker at Wrestlemania 23 and probably come about as close to winning as Batista did at 21 in this scenario....

Things could play out roughly the same as how they did in real life after that, but Batista's face run would not have as big of a fan reaction and thus his cheers die down much sooner.... Orton would begin main eventing full time sooner and possibly get a second world title sooner, possibly during the time when Booker did in real life during summer of 2006. By No Mercy 2007, things would remain the same as they did in real life.

Interesting question to ask, but in my opinion things wouldn't change all too much other than what I listed because Batista was still destined to have that big face turn and Orton was still destined to be a top heel.

 

[jayteeERA]

LJL. I thought you was gonna talk about after Randy won the title from benoit. He was gonna become the leader of Evolution and kick HHH out. I think that was the original plan at first.

But I'm gonna give my theory of your orginal idea of what would happen if Batista got kicked out of evolution after summerslam and Randy Orton Main Evented WM 21.


Now I'm gonna go another way with this one. OK Batista wins the WHC at Summerslam a night later gets kicked out of Evolution. At Unforgiven Batista gets screwed out the title thanks to Evolution. At RR Batista gets his rematch and loses again one on one. Orton becomes the 2005 RR winner. Instead of HHH pushing Orton to face the WWE champion. HHH tells Orton to face him at WM and if you win it would be like HHH passing the torch. (This is just to keep Orton heel) MITB debuts Batista's in it and wins. HHH vs Orton. Referee is down Flair comes in and low blows Orton. HHH tries to pedigree Orton. Orton counters into RKO. New champ. Orton excited holding the title but Batista music hits cash in his briefcase. Batista bombs Orton new champ. Next night on RAW everything would originally took place like it would be. Orton whines about how he was suppose to be the future of evolution and challenge Batista. Batista beats Orton. HHH challenge Batista at Backlash and so on.


There is one part that is missing to this alternative story and it is who would have face the Undertaker at WM 21? I think edge would not be too bad at that time or turn chris benoit heel he could been perfect, since him and Taker never faced each other.

 

[Tastycles]

Orton left Evolution too early. People weren't sick enough of Triple H at the time, and he won the title off a popular face rather than off Triple H. Batista has basically been riding the crest of his 2005 wave for 5 years, and I don't think he would have recovered in the manner that Orton eventually did to be perfectly honest with you. Orton would have probably had a moderately successful face run in 2005, but he'd have never reached the plateau he has now through his heel performances over the past few years. In the end, what happened wasn't perfect, but it gave both of them the best careers possible, which is something very special indeed.