80's Region - New Order vs Skid Row

[IrishCanadian25]

1st Round 80's Match

New Order vs Skid Row

Please take into account the entire body of work of the artists, their mark on the music industry and/or society as a whole, their influence on other artists, lyrics, music, etc. If you have not already done so, please review the rules of the tournament and the Wrestlezone Forums. Have fun!
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[X]

I guess I just have to accept that the majority of our posters have terrible, terrible taste in music. Cause I sound like a broken record in every thread saying "What the fuck is wrong with you people who are voting for (Insert Mediocre-At-Best Hard Rock Band Name) over (Insert One of the Most Important Rock Bands of All Time)?".

But it's true. Skid Row? SKID ROW? Over NEW ORDER?! Blasphemy. New Order all but invented the British dance & rave culture, and without them you could probably just throw out 3/4ths of all electronic and dance rock of any kind, because these guys perfected it. All of you out there who love the song "A Little Respect" by Erasure that everyone was talking about before, you would absolutely LOVE New Order. Even better then Erasure.

New Order was the band that rose out of the ashes of Joy Division after lead singer Ian Curtis hung himself in 1980. They went on to literally rule the music world, and it all really started with one of the most infamous songs of the 80s if not of all time, one that we've ALL heard, "Blue Monday". And that's not even close to their best song. They've been selling out HUGE stadiums across the globe for decades now, I mean I'm talking Queen styled sell-out crowds. It's not enough that they produced a slew of utterly fantastic albums in the 80s or that they sold out stadiums across the world either, they also can be credited for the entire rave scene alongside the Happy Mondays among others. And they were so eclectic of a band, going from punk to dance to synthpop to guitar driven rock in the course of one album.

Skid Row were decent at best, and I mean at best. Their records don't stand the test of time at all, and they merely sound like a derivitave of countless other heavy metal bands of the 80s. I'm just stunned here, I thought we had enough Brits on this board to round these kinds of match-ups up.

Here are some videos...give 'em a chance before you vote. Oh and ignore the random clips of the movie Marie Antoinette during the first video, and just enjoy the GODLY song. "Age of Consent" is electronicly influenced new wave/post-punk at it's absolute finest, while "Temptation" is the catchiest song possibly ever written, and if you aren't tapping your feet and bobbing your head, then you good sir or lady have a heart of stone.

New Order - Age of Consent
[youtube]wTa2pXXa7do[/youtube]

New Order - Temptation
[youtube]xezmxnScGS4[/youtube]

New Order - Dreams Never End
[youtube]v6LQb9nEUBQ[/youtube]

New Order - Blue Monday
[youtube]ts9r0QHuFHw[/youtube]

VOTE NEW ORDER! FOR THE LOVE OF MUSIC!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Skid Row were decent at best, and I mean at best. Their records don't stand the test of time at all, and they merely sound like a derivitave of countless other heavy metal bands of the 80s. I'm just stunned here, I thought we had enough Brits on this board to round these kinds of match-ups up.

Skid Row's record's don't stand the test of time? Skid Row still tours and does very well, with or without one of rock's top frontmen, Sebastian Bach. Seriously, X, I usually find the humor and enjoy the venom with which you put these lesser-known bands on pedistals, and I've enjoyed listening to many of them, but you aren't giving Skid Row nearly enough credit.

I'll even remind people - Skid Row are from Toms River, NJ.

Skid Row's debut went Platinum 5 times over. "18 and Life" is an awesome song - powerful and lyrically tight - about violence and the feeling of invincibility in youth, a growing problem in America at the time. "I Remember You" is cheesy, but is a good power ballad that showed Bach's amazing vocal range. And "Youth Gone Wild" became an anthem, nay, a Battle Cry for disenchanted youth in the late 90's pre-Grunge. It's got a hook that still draws me in.

And Skid Row was FAR from generic hard rock, X, now you're just being naive. "Slave to the Grind" was a razor sharp, borderline grunge and thrash metal album before the Seattle Grunge scene emerged. These guys were FAR ahead of the rock curve. Slave went platinum 2x, and Bach went on to be a very successful star on Broadway in "Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde."

New Order is all well and good, but don't look past Skid Row, ever. These guys are a mainstay rock band and deserve EVERY one of the votes they have tallied.

 

[X]

Skid Row's record's don't stand the test of time? Skid Row still tours and does very well, with or without one of rock's top frontmen, Sebastian Bach. Seriously, X, I usually find the humor and enjoy the venom with which you put these lesser-known bands on pedistals, and I've enjoyed listening to many of them, but you aren't giving Skid Row nearly enough credit.

I'll even remind people - Skid Row are from Toms River, NJ.

Skid Row's debut went Platinum 5 times over. "18 and Life" is an awesome song - powerful and lyrically tight - about violence and the feeling of invincibility in youth, a growing problem in America at the time. "I Remember You" is cheesy, but is a good power ballad that showed Bach's amazing vocal range. And "Youth Gone Wild" became an anthem, nay, a Battle Cry for disenchanted youth in the late 90's pre-Grunge. It's got a hook that still draws me in.

Granted that's your opinion IC25. I gave you mine. Many terrible bands from the 80s went Platinum 5 times over, record sales doesn't automatically equal quality. Maybe I'm biased because of my love for Megadeth, but I simply find Skid Row to be sub-par.

And Skid Row was FAR from generic hard rock, X, now you're just being naive. "Slave to the Grind" was a razor sharp, borderline grunge and thrash metal album before the Seattle Grunge scene emerged. These guys were FAR ahead of the rock curve. Slave went platinum 2x, and Bach went on to be a very successful star on Broadway in "Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde."

IC25, I hate to be a dick here, but you haven't read up on your grunge history. "Slave to the Grind" came out in 1991, are you trying to tell me the Seattle grunge scene wasn't already huge in 1991?! Green River, Soundgarden, and Mudhoney had all been around for years by 1991, and the Seattle grunge scene was one of the largest in the country in 1991. Simply not true.

New Order is all well and good, but don't look past Skid Row, ever. These guys are a mainstay rock band and deserve EVERY one of the votes they have tallied.

Again, your opinion good sir, I respectfully disagree.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

IC25, I hate to be a dick here, but you haven't read up on your grunge history. "Slave to the Grind" came out in 1991, are you trying to tell me the Seattle grunge scene wasn't already huge in 1991?! Green River, Soundgarden, and Mudhoney had all been around for years by 1991, and the Seattle grunge scene was one of the largest in the country in 1991. Simply not true.

Fair enough, I misread the year and rushed the post, but even still, they made an impressive transition from hair metal to a thrash/grunge - honestly who other than the LA Guns did such a thing in the 80's and 90's?

Granted that's your opinion IC25. I gave you mine. Many terrible bands from the 80s went Platinum 5 times over, record sales doesn't automatically equal quality. Maybe I'm biased because of my love for Megadeth, but I simply find Skid Row to be sub-par.

I guess I just have to accept that the majority of our posters have terrible, terrible taste in music. Cause I sound like a broken record in every thread saying "What the fuck is wrong with you people who are voting for (Insert Mediocre-At-Best Hard Rock Band Name) over (Insert One of the Most Important Rock Bands of All Time)?".

I find it hard to buy you playing the "That's Your Opinion" card after telling an entire board that they have terrible taste in music. That seem a little off? It has to be assumed that we are all sharing our opinions, but I think you're going the "that's your opinion" route because you know, deep down in your heart, that I am right about Skid Row.

 

[X]

Fair enough, I misread the year and rushed the post, but even still, they made an impressive transition from hair metal to a thrash/grunge - honestly who other than the LA Guns did such a thing in the 80's and 90's?

So because they transitioned from hair metal to thrash that makes them a good band? Not following you here.

I find it hard to buy you playing the "That's Your Opinion" card after telling an entire board that they have terrible taste in music. That seem a little off? It has to be assumed that we are all sharing our opinions, but I think you're going the "that's your opinion" route because you know, deep down in your heart, that I am right about Skid Row.

What do you mean? Again, me saying that a majority of our posters have bad taste in music is my opinion. What else would it be? I'm not stating it as a fact, there is no tangible barometer of one's music tastes that we could compare.

But no, I don't believe you're right about Skid Row, as I said in my last post. They weren't very good, and again, that's my opinion. They sounded like Bach collected up all of his material that wasn't good enough for Megadeth, slowed it down, and then spurned it out to MTV. Compared to several other heavy metal bands of the same era, Skid Row does not stand the test of time in my opinion, and I'll remain by that belief.

 

[HellBoundPower]

"Slave to the Grind" was the first metal album ever to debut at #1 on the Billboard charts, so that alone cements Skid Row's name in the history books. Sebastian Bach is an awesome frontman and singer, and that alone gets their vote for me.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Ok, X, I just listened to the three videos you posted that worked. Actually, I listened to them with my fiancee here (who wants you to know she saw Anti-Flag yesterday and that they were awesome) and our consensus is:

Meh. At Best.

The songs sound the same. The singer has little to no range in his voice - certainly not on par with Skid Row or Sebastian Bach. And X, as far as "throwing out 3/4ths of Dance and electronic rock?" PUH-LEASE. It was going to happen. New Order didn't put this boring music together and turn the entire world on it's ear.

"Wait, wait, you mean we can turn the beat UP, sing four notes in one octave, and that'll be popular!? SIGN ME UP!"

Skid Row by a mile.

Editors Note - Any typos or grammatical errors in the above post is the direct result of Cinco de Mayo Margaritas.

 

[X]

Ok, X, I just listened to the three videos you posted that worked. Actually, I listened to them with my fiancee here (who wants you to know she saw Anti-Flag yesterday and that they were awesome) and our consensus is:

Meh. At Best.

You're granted to that opinion, but in my opinion and millions upon millions of others, you couldn't be more wrong.

The songs sound the same.

ROFL...WHAT?! Did you really listen to the same songs I did? They sound nothing alike! The only similiarities in the songs are the use of synthesizers and other rock instruments, that's it. How you think they sound alike, yet are arguing for Skid Row (who actually DO sound alike on every single song) is beyond me.

The singer has little to no range in his voice - certainly not on par with Skid Row or Sebastian Bach.

First off, how does he have no range? He has just as much range as Mick Jagger or Pete Townshend, two all time rock legends. I'll never understand criticizing a band because of the vocal range of it's singer. Haven't you ever heard of minimalism? What's simplest is often times best? His voice is absolutely perfect for the accompanying music, absolutely perfect, and if you knew anything about the Manchester scene in the 80s you'd know how perfectly it does complement the music.

Sebastian Bach is best when he's growling to begin with, his vocal range is indeed very impressive, but that doesn't make him a better frontman or a better artist. Better singer? In the classical sense, without a doubt you're right there. But the best of Skid Row against the best of New Order? The impact and effect of New Order is so incredibly larger then Skid Row it's downright absurd.

And X, as far as "throwing out 3/4ths of Dance and electronic rock?" PUH-LEASE. It was going to happen. New Order didn't put this boring music together and turn the entire world on it's ear.

See IC25, you've lost some credibility here to me, simply because you criticize electronic & dance rock as being "boring music", which is simply astounding considering that the music incorporates more detailed instrumentalization then most genres, and without a doubt more then Skid Row. If you think dance and electronic rock is boring to begin with though, OBVIOUSLY you aren't going to like one of the great dance and electronic rock bands. So while I understand that you enjoy Skid Row more, and I don't have a problem with that, for you to dismiss New Order so quickly is an uneducated move on your part. New Order were more consistent, more innovative, more original, and without a doubt a more emotional band.

"Wait, wait, you mean we can turn the beat UP, sing four notes in one octave, and that'll be popular!? SIGN ME UP!"

That's just sad IC man. You clearly know or understand absolutely nothing about dance or electronic rock.

Skid Row by a mile.

If you enjoy generic metal that doesn't stand up to even the top 20 metal bands of their era. Versus the single most popular and critically acclaimed electronic act probably of all time. No contest---New Order is the logical vote.

Editors Note - Any typos or grammatical errors in the above post is the direct result of Cinco de Mayo Margaritas.

Now that explains whats with this crazy New Order-bashing. Blasphemy.

Oh, and this:

"Slave to the Grind" was the first metal album ever to debut at #1 on the Billboard charts, so that alone cements Skid Row's name in the history books. Sebastian Bach is an awesome frontman and singer, and that alone gets their vote for me.

If we're going to take commercial success into account, then New Order wins as well. Every one of their albums since 1983 has been in the top ten, with two back-to-back number one albums in the late 80s.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

See IC25, you've lost some credibility here to me, simply because you criticize electronic & dance rock as being "boring music", which is simply astounding considering that the music incorporates more detailed instrumentalization then most genres, and without a doubt more then Skid Row.

I didn't criticize electronic & dance rock as boring. I said New Order was boring. I didn't mean the genre - I meant the band. The band was boring, and had they never existed, I am sure Electronic and Dance Rock would still exist.

First off, how does he have no range? He has just as much range as Mick Jagger or Pete Townshend, two all time rock legends. I'll never understand criticizing a band because of the vocal range of it's singer. Haven't you ever heard of minimalism? What's simplest is often times best?

Mick Jagger has a world more vocal personality than I heard on this, admittedly, small sample from New Order. But you throw out an interesting theory about minimalism. From a musical asthetic POV I didn't enjoy it, maybe because it was too simple. Perhaps the same reason I didn't enjoy Bob Dylan. I am not saying this is right, but you make an interesting theory.

You're granted to that opinion, but in my opinion and millions upon millions of others, you couldn't be more wrong.

Ignoring Skid Row's first album going platinum 5x and second album 2x - just as many agree with me as well.

X, ask yourself - why are you the only person carrying the flag for New Order?

 

[X]

I didn't criticize electronic & dance rock as boring. I said New Order was boring. I didn't mean the genre - I meant the band. The band was boring, and had they never existed, I am sure Electronic and Dance Rock would still exist.

How are they boring? I don't understand your argument, I understand that you don't like them, but boring? Innovative use of technology in music vs. Skid Row playing the same metal riff thats been recycled 20,000 times before? I don't get how you can criticize New Order for being boring, when Skid Row are even more boring.

Mick Jagger has a world more vocal personality than I heard on this, admittedly, small sample from New Order.

Are you kidding me man? Mick Jagger sings in the exact same octave/range in every single Rolling Stones song for the past 30 years. A vocalist's range does not dictate the quality of a band's music. If it did, then Johnny Cash & Tom Waits would never have had a career, as they have absolutely zero vocal range.

But you throw out an interesting theory about minimalism. From a musical asthetic POV I didn't enjoy it, maybe because it was too simple. Perhaps the same reason I didn't enjoy Bob Dylan. I am not saying this is right, but you make an interesting theory.

I understand you don't like it, but you should be able to atleast respect it. Just as I'm assuming you respect Bob Dylan as one of the largest figures in music history.

Ignoring Skid Row's first album going platinum 5x and second album 2x - just as many agree with me as well.

No IC25, not as many people would agree with you here. Because New Order were and remain vastly more popular then Skid Row ever was.

Number One Albums--- Skid Row: 1, New Order: 2
Top Ten Albums--- Skid Row: 2, New Order: 10
Top Ten Singles--- Skid Row: 2, New Order: 8
Numer One Singles--- Skid Row: 0, New Order: 1

See where I'm going here?

X, ask yourself - why are you the only person carrying the flag for New Order?

Because 9/10ths of all male wrestling fans preferred genre of music is heavy metal maybe? Metallica would easily be the most popular band on this board, but they're hardly the best band of all time. If we went and polled 100 music critics, the results would be utterly lopsided in New Order's favor.