5 Tool Wrestler

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

In baseball they have a term for a great all around player known as a 5 tool player. That would be a guy who can hit for power and average, have exceptional base running ability and speed, throwing and fielding ability.

This got me to thinking what should make up a 5 tool wrestler.

Wrestling ability: The most important trait. Not just a great technical wrestler, but should be a guy who is diverse in the ring and can put on good matches against any opponents at the main event spot.

Mic Skills: Should be able to get his point across all the time and either generate heat or praise just by what he says.

Charisma: Related to mic skills, but slightly different. In addition to getting his point across via the promo, the wrestler should have certain mannerisms and taughts that convey the same message without coming off as cheesy or corney.

Look: Easy to spot. With one look you should be able to tell yourself weather this guy is legit. Doesn't mean you have to be 6'6'' 300 lb of solid muscle.

Heel/Face ability: This wrestler should also be able to play both roles at a top level. Seems easy enough, but this is where you can start to seperate some of the greats.

This is how I would classify a 5 tool wrestler. I am open for discussion or debate on these points. Before I get to my list I would like to point out a few guys who were left out soley on them lacking major main event time, Mr. Perfect, Razor Ramon and Rob Van Dam. Also I would keep guys like Edge and Orton off this list as they can't play a face nowhere near as effective as they do a heel. But using my criteria, I would consider the following 5star wrestlers (using guys from the 80's to present with a WWE bias because it's what I know).

Ric Flair
Macho Man Randy Savage
The Undertaker
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Diesel
Sting
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Rock
Triple H
Kurt Angle
Chris Jericho
CM Punk

Lets here it. Who would you call a 5 star wrestler and/or do you agree or disagree with any of my selections. Didn't want to make this a super lonog post so I didn't put my individual wrestler explantations but I am prepaired to for the sake of good debate.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Agreed with all of your choices , except CM Punk.

Wrestling ability : As much as Punk is praised for his wrestling ability I think his wrestling skills are mediocre at best.

Mic skills : He is good at mic but not so good. His promos are monotoned.

Charisma : As a face Punk isn't charismatic.

Look : Not "Larger than Life". Not believable for a guy wrestling for the World Title.

Heel/Face ability : CM Punk is good as a heel but stale as a face.

Hence CM Punk isn't a 5 star wrestler.

 

[braveh]

More important than all of those is the ability to come up with a gimmick and catchphrase(s). Either on his own or together with the creative team.

Just look at the top guys throughout the history of pro wrestling. What do they have in common? Great gimmicks and catchphrases.

 

[sXeB34ST]

I think a more important fifth trait, as opposed to the ability to play a heel and face, would be the ability to draw. That's the biggest and most important trait of them all, more so than wrestling ability. It doesn't matter if you display the most awe-inspiring technical prowess, if literally no one gives two shits, or tunes in to watch.

Agreed with all of your choices , except CM Punk.

Wrestling ability : As much as Punk is praised for his wrestling ability I think his wrestling skills are mediocre at best.

Mic skills : He is good at mic but not so good. His promos are monotoned.

Charisma : As a face Punk isn't charismatic.

Look : Not "Larger than Life". Not believable for a guy wrestling for the World Title.

Heel/Face ability : CM Punk is good as a heel but stale as a face.

Hence CM Punk isn't a 5 star wrestler.

And to the guy telling us that CM Punk isn't a 5 tool wrestler, you're an imbecile. He doesn't have the prototypical top guy look, which is the whole point. And you don't "not have charisma" pending on your role. Charisma has nothing to do with mic skills, and Punk is off the charts regardless of whether WWE's white-washed him down, like they do all babyfaces to meet a Cena-esque mold.

Mediocre at best in-ring ability is a flat-out fallacious claim to make, and it shows your pure bias against CM Punk. I'm able to recognize that CM Punk doesn't carry superstars very well, however he's gold everywhere else. Ring psychology, ability and he's got moves that pop a crowd and keep them interested in his matches. That's all you can really ask for.

CM Punk works the mic better than anyone in professional wrestling right now, and arguing that proves my prior statement of you being biased. Surely, you can say the same about me, but I look at things subjectively, and NO ONE changes the entire WWE product by one promo; except CM Punk.

CM Punk can draw if creative lets him, just as well as anyone else. He made the WWE socially relevant for the first non-WrestleMania season time in only god knows how long. He can create a buzz at the drop of a dime, but it's wise business strategy to hold off on him dropping proverbial 'pipebombs' until a product grows stagnant, and that revitalizes it.

Me actually having to state this things proves my lack of faith in the morons that follow professional wrestling on the internet. People who think Cody Rhodes is a future megastar. The guy doesn't draw for shit and he doesn't have what it takes to be a megastar. Is he going to be a multi-time world champion? Yes, but he's not going to exceed Jericho status, credibility wise. He'll be the guy whose only in the upper-card spots in the down-time of the year, and the guy whose always playing second-fiddle to whoever is on top in his prime. The IWC is polluted with closed-minded imbeciles, and it's irritating. Educate yourself and get enlightened prior to posting.

 

[braveh]

Brock Lesnar and Triple-H are two top guys that didn't needed gimmicks or catchphrases to get over.

What I meant by saying "top guys" was Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, Sting, Cena.

Lesnar was never the no.1 guy in a wrestling promotion. HHH had gimmicks. As part of DX, The game, in Evolution.

 

[OutsiderDX]

I would disagree with your criteria for 5 tool wrestler. It's about ability in the ring. So i would be more advised to break it down than just "in ring ability"

Mat Wrestling- This included techincal, mat, counter and they must be plentiful

Ariel ability - this is an elite group, so he must be able to mix up the offense and go to the top rope. These more are often spectacular

Match Story Telling- A wrestler can be a great wrestler, know all the moves, be a spot-monkey, but still not captivate viewers. He has to bring be able to draw the fans in, create a suspension of belief.

Mic Skills - obviously

Charisma- I suppose this is the it factor, that allows people to be like/dislike somoene. to keep their tvs and their attention.

I will argue look is very unimportant. If he has all the tools, I could care less what he looks like. It's about respect, not about how tan you are. Not about how long and blonde your hair is.

 

[braveh]

And to the guy telling us that CM Punk isn't a 5 tool wrestler, you're an imbecile. He doesn't have the prototypical top guy look, which is the whole point. And you don't "not have charisma" pending on your role. Charisma has nothing to do with mic skills, and Punk is off the charts regardless of whether WWE's white-washed him down, like they do all babyfaces to meet a Cena-esque mold.

I agree with OP in one sense. Looks come into play. A top guy needs the ability to intimidate. I'm still on the fence when it comes to Punk being intimidating. He did a good job as the leader of Nexus but he has not been intimidating or seemed like a tough guy (for the lack of a better term) since MITB.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Me actually having to state this things proves my lack of faith in the morons that follow professional wrestling on the internet. People who think Cody Rhodes is a future megastar. The guy doesn't draw for shit and he doesn't have what it takes to be a megastar. Is he going to be a multi-time world champion? Yes, but he's not going to exceed Jericho status, credibility wise. He'll be the guy whose only in the upper-card spots in the down-time of the year, and the guy whose always playing second-fiddle to whoever is on top in his prime.

CM Punk is playing second fiddle to John Cena who is on top in his prime. Cena is always in the main-events and Punk isn't. You contradicted your own arguement.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

Agreed with all of your choices , except CM Punk.

Wrestling ability : As much as Punk is praised for his wrestling ability I think his wrestling skills are mediocre at best.

Mic skills : He is good at mic but not so good. His promos are monotoned.

Charisma : As a face Punk isn't charismatic.

Look : Not "Larger than Life". Not believable for a guy wrestling for the World Title.

Heel/Face ability : CM Punk is good as a heel but stale as a face.

Hence CM Punk isn't a 5 star wrestler.

I can see leaving CM Punk off the list because of his short time on top, but I think your underselling him elsewhere. He's been getting the loudest pops of anyone so I think he works as much as a face then he does a heel. And with look. While he's not big, his overall look from his hair slicked back to his tats to the bags under his eyes all work for him and give him the look. I haven't felt he was out of place since probably his early ECW days where he looked too young. Besides that I have never viewed him as any lesser then his opponents even when they shadow over him or are twice as wide.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

I would disagree with your criteria for 5 tool wrestler. It's about ability in the ring. So i would be more advised to break it down than just "in ring ability"

Mat Wrestling- This included techincal, mat, counter and they must be plentiful

Ariel ability - this is an elite group, so he must be able to mix up the offense and go to the top rope. These more are often spectacular

Match Story Telling- A wrestler can be a great wrestler, know all the moves, be a spot-monkey, but still not captivate viewers. He has to bring be able to draw the fans in, create a suspension of belief.

Mic Skills - obviously

Charisma- I suppose this is the it factor, that allows people to be like/dislike somoene. to keep their tvs and their attention.

I will argue look is very unimportant. If he has all the tools, I could care less what he looks like. It's about respect, not about how tan you are. Not about how long and blonde your hair is.

I didn't break it down explicity, but when I called wrestling skills the most important, I am taking all the individual parts you mentioned into it. Now that doesn't mean each guy has to have full marks on each individual category that make up wrestling as you laid out, but they should have some.

Take Undertaker for example. Aireal ability wouldn't be the same for him as it would for a Mysterio, but the fact that Taker is able to do such things as get the elevation he does on his running clothesline and his suicide dive over the top rope more then qualify him as having arieal skill.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

I

think a more important fifth trait, as opposed to the ability to play a heel and face, would be the ability to draw. That's the biggest and most important trait of them all, more so than wrestling ability. It doesn't matter if you display the most awe-inspiring technical prowess, if literally no one gives two shits, or tunes in to watch.

For me this is a tough sell for a few reasons. Looking at history there are only a select few guys who have truly drawn big in wrestling. Guys like Flair, Hogan, NWO, Austin, Rock and maybe Cena. While that's a great trait, its moreso for the promoter then it is when discussing the wrestler from a fan perspective. I would almost equate it to the analogy of a professional athlete not being truly great unless they win a championship. Guys like Marino, Kelly, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Bonds.... etc should not be thought of any less because they didn't win it all.

Even though Bret and Shawn were the top draws during the down time for the WWE I wouldn't discount them as any less great or disclude them from the short list of top 10 or even 5 wrestlers all time.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

What wrestlers have good mic skills and no charisma? Or good charisma and no mic skills?

Very good list OP but I would remove Punk and maybe Diesel.