WWE shot themselves in the foot when they killed the Brand Extension

[NegativeFeedback]

The reason CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio want to get out of their contracts is because they feel they're stuck in limbo while Triple H, Batista, John Cena and Randy Orton hold on to their spots. Those 4 have been the top guys since 2005 and don't look like they're going anywhere anytime soon. But the reason no one else decided to "walk out" before was because the Brand Extension allowed for much more stars to have top spots.

Sure, Cena and Batista were the top guys of their respective brands, but they each got to feud with a bunch of top starts who kept rotating around. There were 7-8 storylines at the same time, all divided between brands. Now, we're stuck with 5-hours of the same shit over and over again every week. How many times did Miz vs. Kofi, Ziggler vs. Sandow, and Rey vs. Del Rio happen? What's worse is that all those matches happened practically without any feuds or storylines.

WWE shot themselves in the foot when they killed the brand extension. No longer can a bunch of top guys rotate between the top two brands. Now, it's always the same 4 guys running around the main events on each show.

Hell, when they had THREE brands, even guys like Christian, Morrison and Matt Hardy were able to be the faces of their own show.

I really think there is value in a brand extension. Someone like Alberto Del Rio prefers to be the top star in Mexico instead of a bottom-feeder on Raw, and who can blame him? But with more brands, you could easily split up the roster and a guy like Del Rio won't be lost in the shuffle. He could be a top guy in brand B or C. But right now, all we got is a Brand A, and guys like Del Rio are being disrespected.

If I was Dolph or Miz, I'd probably want to abandon ship too. There's nothing worse than being stuck in the midcard with not even a feud or storyline in sight. If the money was right, I'd jump ship to AAA or TNA just to be able to be treated like a top guy.

 

[Cody Trail]

What the bloated WWE locker room needs is an enema.

I'm not just talking about a spring cleaning or a normal roster cut. I'm talking about clearing house here. Half the roster is nothing more than dead weight that needs to go, and almost everyone that isn't a main-eventer (90% of the locker room) is lost in a rotating shuffle. As you mentioned, there is no longer a brand extension, and there are only half as many titles as there were 4 years ago, which by WWE logic, means there are only half as many storylines. A notably smaller roster would be, as the Authority likes to say, best for business.

 

[TheBottomLine]

I have to agree with you, during around 2006-2008/2009 when WWE had RAW Smackdown! and ECW, they split up the main guys, You had Cena, HHH and HBK on Raw, Batista,Taker and Orton on Smackdown! and they used ECW as a platform to push talent. CM Punk, Morrison and Matt Hardy all got pushes there. I even remember when guys like Big Show who weren't being used properly on the other brands was put on ECW to help boost him and the other guys on the roster.

Now, when all superstars are contracted to both shows, there's no room for the up and comers, especially when they bring back part-timers.

 

[johnbragg]

Something I've believed for a long time--Smackdown and, by implication, the brand extension, were really hurt by HHH refusing to go to Smackdown. Before that, even if Raw was the "A" show with better ratings, if you liked Smackdown better, you didn't feel it was overshadowed--the brand with Undertaker and Brock LEsnar and Kurt Angle wasn't a second-rate product, especially during HHH's run at the top of RAW.

Although I guess it wasn't just HHH getting drafted to Smackdown and not going. It was a couple of years in a row of the "WWE Draft Lottery" moving talent from Smackdown to Raw and not sending much back.

But when HHH was drafted on TV, and got "traded back" between Monday and Thursday, with the rumors everywhere that HHH used his pull to avoid Smackdown, that hurt Smackdown's credibility.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The reason CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio want to get out of their contracts is because they feel they're stuck in limbo while Triple H, Batista, John Cena and Randy Orton hold on to their spots.

Do you have any evidence to back these claims about Punk and Del Rio?

Those 4 have been the top guys since 2005 and don't look like they're going anywhere anytime soon.

HHH rarely wrestles, Batista was gone 4 years, Orton and Cena have had lengthy absences for periods of time over the years.

Not to mention HBK, UT, and Edge were around since 2005. Punk had a 400+ day title reign. The Rock was around for a bit.

But the reason no one else decided to "walk out" before was because the Brand Extension allowed for much more stars to have top spots.

How often has Cena worked SD? When was the last time HHH had a match on SD? Has Batista worked SD since his return (I really haven't paid attention)? It is true that Orton works most shows but that doesn't matter because Orton supposedly "doesn't care and isn't a hard worker" (sorry, that's another topic).

Sure, Cena and Batista were the top guys of their respective brands, but they each got to feud with a bunch of top starts who kept rotating around. There were 7-8 storylines at the same time, all divided between brands. Now, we're stuck with 5-hours of the same shit over and over again every week. How many times did Miz vs. Kofi, Ziggler vs. Sandow, and Rey vs. Del Rio happen? What's worse is that all those matches happened practically without any feuds or storylines.

If Punk wants Miz's, Kofi's, or Ziggler's spots I'm sure WWE would have no choice but to oblige him.

Look, they tried to get certain guys more time by having a secondary brand and it wasn't working for them. They must do better by showing their most popular guys. Do you really think they can't figure out what works better?

WWE shot themselves in the foot when they killed the brand extension. No longer can a bunch of top guys rotate between the top two brands. Now, it's always the same 4 guys running around the main events on each show.

See my questions above.

Hell, when they had THREE brands, even guys like Christian, Morrison and Matt Hardy were able to be the faces of their own show.

And there must be a good reason they killed that concept or is this one of those "Vince's ego got in the way of the huge success Matt Hardy was becoming" points?

I really think there is value in a brand extension. Someone like Alberto Del Rio prefers to be the top star in Mexico instead of a bottom-feeder on Raw, and who can blame him? But with more brands, you could easily split up the roster and a guy like Del Rio won't be lost in the shuffle. He could be a top guy in brand B or C. But right now, all we got is a Brand A, and guys like Del Rio are being disrespected.

Some advice, when trying to make a point on the internet, don't support Del Rio being a top guy.

If I was Dolph or Miz, I'd probably want to abandon ship too. There's nothing worse than being stuck in the midcard with not even a feud or storyline in sight. If the money was right, I'd jump ship to AAA or TNA just to be able to be treated like a top guy.

There are much worse things than being stuck in the mid card. Unemployment and being JTG are the first that come to mind.

WWE had their reasons for doing what they did. If you don't personally like it, I get it, but that doesn't make it "shooting themselves in the foot".

On this topic I'm going to have to come to the conclusion that WWE know more about what is best for their product than you.

 

[Cody Trail]

There are much worse things than being stuck in the mid card. Unemployment and being JTG are the first that come to mind.

WWE had their reasons for doing what they did. If you don't personally like it, I get it, but that doesn't make it "shooting themselves in the foot".

Just on a side note, between the two men, only Dolph Ziggler has been vocal about falling down the card and being lost in the shuffle, and rightfully so.

I honestly believe The Miz stopped giving a shit after 2011. These last 2 years, he's only been there for the six-figure paycheck.

 

[Zycho32]

I wonder, would Smackdown work better as a genuine 'B' Show/Midcard/Minor League display for wrestlers who otherwise can't break into the Main Event?

 

[johnbragg]

WWE had their reasons for doing what they did. If you don't personally like it, I get it, but that doesn't make it "shooting themselves in the foot".

Not the best analogy, but I'd say that there was some value in having two "brands", creating twice as many main-event spots, creating the abillity to move a guy to freshen up feuds.

On this topic I'm going to have to come to the conclusion that WWE know more about what is best for their product than you.

Maybe. But they're not immune to mistakes and second-guessing.

I think gardening might be the right analogy here. They didn't give Smackdown the care and attention that would have allowed it to continue to grow--they treated it not just like the "B-show" but like the minor league show compared to the "big leagues" of RAW.

After a couple of years, and especially after HHH was seen as pulling a power play to not go to SmackDown, it became clear that the WWE saw Raw as higher-level than Smackdown. And if they felt that way, why should we feel differetnly?

I guess I also disagree with the OP's specific point about Punk--my best guess is that Punk's greivance was that he wasn't main-eventing Wrestlemania, which is about the only thing he hasn't done in pro wrestling. The brand extension has nothing to do with that.

 

[Cody Trail]

I wonder, would Smackdown work better as a genuine 'B' Show/Midcard/Minor League display for wrestlers who otherwise can't break into the Main Event?

When ECW folded, that's what SmackDown essentially became during the final full year of the brand extension. Ratings were horrible because there was virtually no starpower. WWE panicked, and here we are today.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Some advice, when trying to make a point on the internet, don't support Del Rio being a top guy.

Well that just proves you're an asshole. Del Rio is a phenomenal talent and deserves a top spot. If you think he isn't, then fine, you have a right to your opinion, but I have a right to think that opinion is full of shit. And trust me, it is.

Now, as for the rest of your post. All of the guys I mentioned have been able to get some time in the limelight. Ziggler, Miz, Punk and Del Rio have all had turns in main event programs. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

The brand extension ended a long time ago, but we still had main event programs focused on different shows. It wasn't until December when Cena and Orton merged the titles that it's become clear that Smackdown won't be getting it's own main event program anymore. No more Del Rio vs. Big Show on Smackdown while Punk and Rock fight it out on Raw. Now, it's the guys on the Raw storylines who will be wrestling on SD too.

There's no point in having Shield work all Raws and Smackdowns. Let 3MB stop being jobbers and let them get over on Smackdown while Shield takes care of Raw. But nope, we instead get to see everyone moved down the card in favor of the A-show guys working the B-show. WWE slowly phased out the "second roster" ever since 2011, but it wasn't really official until 2013.

 

[bioshock]

I doubt the wrestlers want another "brand" and I know NONE of the fans want another brand, do you know how bad the brand extension was?

During the brand only PPV's we had great PPV matches like:

Bad Blood 2003 - Scott Steiner vs Test & HHH vs Nash HIAC (horrible match)
Vengeance 2003 - Jamie Noble vs Billy Gunn & Vince vs Zack Gowen
Unforgiven 2003 - Steiner vs Test rematch & Al Snow/Coach vs Ross/JR
No Mercy 2003 - Zack Gowen vs Matt Hardy & Vince vs Stephanie

plus many other horrible matches that today wouldn't make it past Superstars. Sure main event matches like Undertaker vs Lesnar HIAC might of been great, but mid card, and early matches were worse then Raw matches we get now. No one wants the brands again.

Besides the point that the attitude era, the 90s, and 80s were all better. If Foley can win the WWF title in a era run by Austin, Rock, and HHH then I think anyone can now.

Not to mention the way this brand era will be looked back on. Do you really think Cena becomes 14 time world champion in a era with 1 championship, you think HHH becomes 13 time champion in a 1 belt era, or that Orton is a 11 time champion in a one belt era. Or that Edge becomes 13 time champion in a one belt era. Just doesn't happen.

 

[Pedigree1]

There might be a reason why Cena,Orton,batista,(although i dont like him),and Taker have been on top since 2005,is because they draw rating and money. I liked the brand extension,I did! Yes there was more feuds fresh feuds which is what we all enjoy don't we? There are worse things to be stuck in Mid-card Limbo. Your still making money,lots of money,your enjoying the life of being a WWE superstar,again you could be out of a job all together or stuck like JTG!

Do i blame Miz and Ziggler if they wanted to jump ship? No i dont,they have been there while batista comes back after a 4 year hissy fit to be handed the keys to the kingdom that i can see where it isn't fair. And their complaints are warranted in that they truly are.

IMO this whole mess started when Batista returned maybe the WWE ought to think about having batista in the ME of WM! Better to have one upset superstar instead of the whole locker room is it not?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The only value in any brand extention was a separate company, with only one shared show a year at Mania... Vince had the perfect chance with WCW, keep it seperate, get a fresh TV deal for it and run them as two entities only rarely would you get a clash.

Irony is they have just killed the RAW/SD extension as they build NXT up... so in essence that is now the Brand Extension but they now have the chance... if WCW was EVER going to come back then it comes back with Sting who can be "owner"...

A lot Ultimately guys like Del Rio wouldn't have gotten a top spot in the pre-extension WWF - He would have been somewhere near where Curt Hennig or Rick Rude were in 88-90, Ic hamp possibly, maybe the odd feud with the top guys but never a champion ion a million years. He has had two reigns, that's 2 more than Hennig, Rude, Davey got and all 3 were better equipped to be the "top guy"...

In ADR's case he sees money now Mistico is back in Mexico and wants to go and do that for a bit...I say let him, then they can always bring him back AS Dos Caras to replace Rey as the masked guy going forward...

 

[TDFG]

The only value in any brand extention was a separate company, with only one shared show a year at Mania... Vince had the perfect chance with WCW, keep it seperate, get a fresh TV deal for it and run them as two entities only rarely would you get a clash.

Agreed.

Vince's ego got in the way & he wanted WCW buried, the brand extension was ok for a while, the problem is to maintain it you 'water down' the product, for all the success stories of guys getting there chance during the brand extension, there was a lot of below average characters on TV.

Merging the rosters should have meant a cull, which hasn't really happened.

 

[Electric88]

I may be in the minority here, but I think bringing the brand extension back would be a good thing.

It gives some of the guys who have potential to be main event players.

Have the brand cross over events once or twice a year and the draft lottery to mix it up a bit.

Think it will give more opportunity to some of the deserving guys (Ziggler, Barrett etc)

 

[That Zon Kid]

Look at Derrick Bateman. He wasn't going anywhere in WWE moved to TNA and is now a hit as ECIII

 

[AegonTargaryen]

We sure had dozens of terrible raw and smackdown unibranded pay per views. But you're also overlooking the fact that while no mercy '03 had Vince Mcmahon vs Stephanie, it was main-evented by Lesnar and Taker in a Biker Chain Match, plus Benoit battled A-train/Albert, and Kurt Angle faced off John Cena in a classic first-ever feud.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I doubt the wrestlers want another "brand" and I know NONE of the fans want another brand, do you know how bad the brand extension was?

During the brand only PPV's we had great PPV matches like:

Bad Blood 2003 - Scott Steiner vs Test & HHH vs Nash HIAC (horrible match)
Vengeance 2003 - Jamie Noble vs Billy Gunn & Vince vs Zack Gowen
Unforgiven 2003 - Steiner vs Test rematch & Al Snow/Coach vs Ross/JR
No Mercy 2003 - Zack Gowen vs Matt Hardy & Vince vs Stephanie

plus many other horrible matches that today wouldn't make it past Superstars. Sure main event matches like Undertaker vs Lesnar HIAC might of been great, but mid card, and early matches were worse then Raw matches we get now. No one wants the brands again.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I doubt the wrestlers want another "brand" and I know NONE of the fans want another brand, do you know how bad the brand extension was?

During the brand only PPV's we had great PPV matches like:

Bad Blood 2003 - Scott Steiner vs Test & HHH vs Nash HIAC (horrible match)
Vengeance 2003 - Jamie Noble vs Billy Gunn & Vince vs Zack Gowen
Unforgiven 2003 - Steiner vs Test rematch & Al Snow/Coach vs Ross/JR
No Mercy 2003 - Zack Gowen vs Matt Hardy & Vince vs Stephanie

plus many other horrible matches that today wouldn't make it past Superstars. Sure main event matches like Undertaker vs Lesnar HIAC might of been great, but mid card, and early matches were worse then Raw matches we get now. No one wants the brands again.

We sure had dozens of terrible raw and smackdown unibranded pay per views. But you're also overlooking the fact that while no mercy '03 had Vince Mcmahon vs Stephanie, it was main-evented by Lesnar and Taker in a Biker Chain Match, plus Benoit battled A-train/Albert, and Kurt Angle faced off John Cena in a classic first-ever feud.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I doubt the wrestlers want another "brand" and I know NONE of the fans want another brand

You are literally commenting in a thread where people are saying they want another brand.

 

[#tamale]

The guys you're arguing for don't help your case. Why would I want to tune in to Smackdown to see the likes of Del Rio, Miz, or Ziggler? Raw has Cena, Bryan, Lesnar, Orton, Batista. Just because they are booked as the "top guys" of that brand does not make them any better.

People hated the brand extension. Now, some want it. People wanted one true world champion. Now they want two. See a pattern? Having a brand extension, tournaments, multiple championships, etc does not help. It all comes down to creative and how they book shows. Create entertaining television for your brands and it will help the overall product. NXT is the best weekly wrestling show because it has the best booking combined with creating star power for their wrestlers. On Raw and Smackdown, the solution is there, but the execution is where it's lacking.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Well that just proves you're an asshole. Del Rio is a phenomenal talent and deserves a top spot. If you think he isn't, then fine, you have a right to your opinion, but I have a right to think that opinion is full of shit. And trust me, it is.

Now, as for the rest of your post. All of the guys I mentioned have been able to get some time in the limelight. Ziggler, Miz, Punk and Del Rio have all had turns in main event programs. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

The brand extension ended a long time ago, but we still had main event programs focused on different shows. It wasn't until December when Cena and Orton merged the titles that it's become clear that Smackdown won't be getting it's own main event program anymore. No more Del Rio vs. Big Show on Smackdown while Punk and Rock fight it out on Raw. Now, it's the guys on the Raw storylines who will be wrestling on SD too.

There's no point in having Shield work all Raws and Smackdowns. Let 3MB stop being jobbers and let them get over on Smackdown while Shield takes care of Raw. But nope, we instead get to see everyone moved down the card in favor of the A-show guys working the B-show. WWE slowly phased out the "second roster" ever since 2011, but it wasn't really official until 2013.

Funny how well the "Attitude Era" did then, when SCSA, the Rock, Triple H, Undertaker and others would appear in the main event of both Raw and Smackdown in 1999-2000, keeping down others such as D-Lo Brown and Viscera.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Funny how well the "Attitude Era" did then, when SCSA, the Rock, Triple H, Undertaker and others would appear in the main event of both Raw and Smackdown in 1999-2000, keeping down others such as D-Lo Brown and Viscera.

Exactly. While guys like HHH, Rock, and Angle main-evented in the 2000s , road dogg, X-pac, Billy gunn, mark henry, rikishi, two cool and countless others were never meant to be main-eventers. All appeared on every Raw and Smackdown. However, one enjoyed the work of Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho in the mid-card and perhaps without the brand extension, we wouldn't have had Guerrero main-eventing pay per views as WWE Champion , with all due respect to the great guerrero, with guys like Cena, Orton, Batista, Lesnar in line for the top spot, it simply wouldn't have happened for guerrero and benoit .

 

[jameyt2003]

Well, I am totally down for Brand Split re emergence talk. Instead of an opinion, I am finally going to give a what if scenario. Book my own damn Brand split. Keepin it simple with just RAW and Smackdown! keeping the entire roster, but mostly relevant names, in mind. Draft Day has begun....

RAW: Cena, Orton, Ziggler, Kofi, AJ Lee, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Swagger, Batista, Brock, Curtis Axel, Damien Sandow, The Uso's, The Miz, Xavier Woods, R Truth.

Smackdown!: The Shield, The Wyatts, Big E, Cesaro, ADR, Bad News Barrett, RYBACK!, Mark Henry, Christian, Cody Rhodes, Fandango, Mysterio, Sin Cara (keep him plz)

Anyway that's a vague idea of how I would do it. Im not gonna get into story structuring and who gets pushed more. But I feel this would be a nice roster split to start out with.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Not the best analogy,

What analogy?

but I'd say that there was some value in having two "brands",

"Was" being the key word and WWE failed with it and decided it was better to do supershows. Unbranding wasn't shooting themselves in the foot, it was what they did during the separate branding that "shot them in the foot".

creating twice as many main-event spots, creating the abillity to move a guy to freshen up feuds.

Why do you need separate brands for exclusive feuds. WWE can still keep a feud to SD if they want. They just are not that restricted. Right now WWE is at a point where they are trying to get the biggest TV contract possible and sell their WWE Network to the masses. This isn't the time to be moving guys up the card to see what happens. They have to rely on what gets them the eyeballs they need.

Maybe. But they're not immune to mistakes and second-guessing.

Truer words were never spoken.

I think gardening might be the right analogy here. They didn't give Smackdown the care and attention that would have allowed it to continue to grow--they treated it not just like the "B-show" but like the minor league show compared to the "big leagues" of RAW.

After a couple of years, and especially after HHH was seen as pulling a power play to not go to SmackDown, it became clear that the WWE saw Raw as higher-level than Smackdown. And if they felt that way, why should we feel differetnly?

Which is why they killed it and it made sense to kill it. I think we're on the same page while the OP thinks they should not have killed it and did more harm than good by killing it. They can always bring it back but to them, right now a brand extension is not best for business. It make sense and I think WWE knows what they are doing better than Feedback.

I guess I also disagree with the OP's specific point about Punk--my best guess is that Punk's greivance was that he wasn't main-eventing Wrestlemania, which is about the only thing he hasn't done in pro wrestling. The brand extension has nothing to do with that.

I don't know what Punk's deal is. I'm spreading a rumor that he's hitting the bottle like his old man and WWE had to give him time to work out his demons. I have no basis for this assumption much like the OP has for the garbage he spews, so feel free to share the rumor with everyone you know.