Oooo... a debate? I shall post.
So you're comparing Shimmer then to the WWE who go to great lengths in training their Diva's in their farm league and developing their Diva's skills long before they get to the main rosters of the WWE? Gail Kim, Beth Phoenix, Katie Lee, Mickie James, Maryse, Michelle McCool, Natalya Neidhart, Melina, and the list goes on and on all have spent years honing their skills and are just as capable as anyone in Shimmer (or therefore TNA).
You are correct in the fact that the diva's are trained extensively in the WWE farm territories to create credible female wrestlers whom either started off with little to no wrestling knowledge or do not have any experience in the mainstream society. However, I am comparing SHIMMER to the WWE with good reason. Yes, WWE is mainstream & have better training programs... but SHIMMER is an all-women's wrestling promotion that is strictly designed on producing great female wrestlers of the future... basically the well-respected training facility for women wrestlers.
What I am saying here is that the women whom get initially groomed for higher order wrestling companies & eventually into the mainstream in companies like SHIMMER have the greater wrestling ability & knowledge [eg. Beth Phoenix] than those who get jacked straight into the WWE's developmental territories as models [eg. Rosa Mendes]
Might I add that Victoria is a former WWE developed talent, and also..
You are asking an avid womens wrestling fan about a mainstream female competitor? Why?
ODB, Taylor Wilde, Angelina Love, Sojourn Bolt, all spent YEARS in WWE developmentals being trained, long before they got to TNA. The only Knockouts that really don't have roots as WWE Diva's are Awesome Kong (who Japan gets credit for), Cheerleader Melissa (Shimmer) and Sarah Stock (Mexico). So you giving credit to Shimmer and your logic behind the Knockouts' wrestling ability is not exactly true, is it?
In fact, much of the Knockouts division could be tossed into this silly label as "WWE castoffs".
Ah... this is where you are wrong. I do not have flawed logic about the KnockOut's. By simply going through the list of current & alumni of all the female wrestling promotions that are deemed "worthy" & "respected," I will guarantee you that the ratio of female wrestlers that enter TNA to the female wrestlers that enter WWE will be greater. Most of these same female wrestlers are considered to be those with the greatest wrestling talents of the respected industries. I can safetly assume that being trained in SHIMMER influences your chances in an increase of wrestling ability.
BTW, you argue that WWE training is on par with the likes of SHIMMER... can you explain to me how some of the diva's do not have as sufficient wrestling knowledge compared to the other diva's who are in the exact same position but went to SHIMMER to hone their crafts?
Also, TNA consists of many WWE cast-offs. I don't care about this. One companies trash is another companies treasure I say.
And this seems a bit of an exaggeration here. What characters do the Knockouts really have? ODB certainly has a character, the Beautiful People as a whole have a gimmick but they really have no characters individually, Awesome Kong has a character, Daphne certainly does.. but half the Knockouts roster is really rather bland and don't have much in terms of character. What distinguishes Taylor Wilde from any other blond? What makes the crowd connect with her, exactly?
And the Diva's don't have characters? Mickie James has an in depth character that has developed from her debut in the WWE to right now, and the fans have a clear connection with her. Beth Phoenix has a clear character that has developed from her dominance in the beginning to her development with Santino until now. Natalya Neidhart, Jillian Hall, Katie Lee, Melina, Gail Kim, Maryse, Michelle McCool they all have characters and are distinguishable.
This part doesn't make sense to me at all. You argue that Talyor Wilde lacks a character. Yes, she does... I give you that one. But you then say that Gail Kim has a character? What's that exactly, being from Oriental decent? She hasn't got a character, albeit her short time in WWE. With her eventual heel turn in the works, they may give her something.
Mickie James HAD a character as a psycho. All she is now is a well-respected female competitor with no character. Kind of like the Shawn Michaels of now when he is not in DX. People love them because of what they did for the business, so an instant connection has been built.
Beth Phoenix is the "big woman" who has extraordinary power in her moveset. They named her the Glamazon to shed light on this fact. Last time I checked, being a big person was not a gimmick. It is the competitor class you are given.
Natalya is a part of one of pro wrestling's greatest families, the Hart's. Being a 2nd or 3rd generation superstar... even when embracing the past... does not define as a character.
Katie-Lea is being portrayed as the "sister" of Paul Burchill. This can go either way on the character/gimmick, depending on how many view the situation. However, as a wrestler... not a storyline... she has not got character. She still resembles that heel diva character that all heels have.
Michelle McCool is also a toss up. When she was a face, all she had to her was being a face diva. Now with the heel turn, she has become somewhat meniacle & devious... but thats what all heels do. When she was the teacher, she had a character. Now, she is just a mean diva... like every ther heel diva.
Melina... I did forget to mention her. She does have that whole papparazi thing going implying she is famous... she is a face diva whose actions show heel diva... she did that showgirl thingy... Ohkay, I will award you Melina.
Maryse & Jillian I both mentioned. They both have some character.
What about Eve, Kelly, Mendes, Layla??? Do they have characters besides being a face diva or a heel diva. The only one I can think of not mentioned that has character is Maria... but I do believe they are playing down the blonde character.
By the list I created compiling of the KO's with Diva's to find out who has characters... there are more KO's with definited characters than diva's. Not is not bad logic.
This is clearly opinion based because the WWE has a far greater fanbase and therefore the majority who would remember feuds with Phoenix/James, McCool/Melina is far more then those who might remember a Wilde/Kong feud. The feuds in TNA are nothing special and are being a bit overexaggerated, as are the matches that came from them. Just like people are overexaggerating the Diva's who can't wrestle well compared to the Diva's who can wrestle just as well as any Knockouts.
When was the last time people talked about the Knockouts being the top ratings draw on the show every week? That kind of ended and disappeared didn't it once Gail Kim left.
All posts are basically opinion followed by facts to back yourself up.
Anywayz... of course the company with the greater fanbase will have more memorable feuds than that of a smaller company. Thats a fact. However, the WWE feuds concerning the female competitor's are basically challenger vs. champion with both females every week wrestling each other in tag matches or being managers. It is the same storyline repeated over & over again. The last time WWE used a different approach was with the James/Stratus feud. TNA goes in different directions. With the Beautiful People, they have been on TV involved in some storyline against other divas... without a title. Remember BP vs. Wilde/Roxxi feud? Women's feuds don't exactly follow the strict challenger vs. champion storyline that WWE uses, do they?
BTW, Gail Kim was not one of the acquired talents where people discussed about them. Awesome Kong, Sarita, the formation of the BP... ring a bell? Sure, they may not be featured as the top draw every week, but when these events happened, they were on peoples minds. And since when did the WWE Diva's became the top draw for the show? Last time I checked it was the time James/Stratus feud.
When you compare them by wrestling ability there's just as many Diva's who are as good if not better then the Knockouts. When you compare the connection they get from the crowd then the Diva's come out on top there, too. When you compare mic ability then Mickie James, Melina, Beth Phoenix, certainly Natalya Neidhart, etc, are all good in that department. The Knockouts? The Beautiful People are horrible on the mic. The only Knockouts who are any good are Victoria and Daphne, both of which have experience in WWE/WCW respectively.
I can honestly say for somebody who watches WWE over TNA, that the KO's have the better wrestling ability than the WWE Diva's. I have seen more botches in a Diva's match than a KO match. I have seen more innovative & wrestling-type offense delivered in a KO match than a Diva match. Sure, you got Beth, Natalya & Mickie to create great matches... but so do TNA with Kong, Sarita & Flash. Simply put, the Diva's wrestling abilities mimmicks that of male's wrestling back in th 80's. Expanding outwards from the simple movesets. KO's are about in the late 90's.
Crowd connection between TNA & WWE cant be measured by sound. TNA dominants small arenas whilst WWE have huge amounts of room for shows. No matter how you look at it, there isn't a measurable way of finding this. Unless, you place each competitor on both companies & judge. From Alexis Laree in TNA to Mickie James in WWE, I'd say she recieved a very great crowd connection for both. No comparison.
Mic skills are a touchy subject. Not very many women in the mainstream are any good on the stick. This is an area where males are simply better. However, WWE will always win this battle as they are focused on the entertainment area. If you have not got some sort of mic skill, you won't succeed. In TNA, despite the fact most of what is done is talking, it is all about the wrestling. Mic skill is not neccesary for any wrestler, but it helps.
Anywayz... women's mic skills & charisma is produced through their appearance & their actions... not their words. People are more inclined to listen to males over females any day of the week. The women are there to talk physically via their bodies not their mouths, unless it is sexual or is used to further a character/feud.
I personally think the Knockouts are overrated and the Diva's are underrated.
Only the Diva's are underrated... the KO's are on par with the critics in my book.
