WWE confirms Live Smackdown and Brand Split ****Keep it in here!****

[Jack-Hammer]

Either later on tonight or sometime tomorrow, probably, someone was going to make this thread so I figured I'd go ahead and kick things off.

According to a report from PWInsider.com, there's been rumblings backstage about a potential brand split for the past several weeks, even before the return of Shane McMahon. The report doesn't mention about what exactly is being discussed or how close they are to executing the idea, only that there's been some degree of talk about splitting the Raw and SmackDown brands. The report also doesn't state anything regarding the stipulation for Taker vs. Shane at WrestleMania tying into the split.

There's so little information to go on right now that there's no telling how serious this report is. Basically, the report comes down to alleged talk backstage, which could be interpreted as anything from it's going to happen or that someone heard something from someone else while someone else caught the back end of a discussion and reported it to the dirt sheets.

Considering Shane McMahon is back in WWE, it's difficult to imagine that Shane has come back simply to help sell a ppv. While there's always the possibility of it being simply that, there just seem like there's enough weight behind it. I think most of us feel that Shane is back to have some sort of corporate and on-screen role in WWE and these latest batch of rumors will only serve to reinforce that perception.

 

[Navi]

If you think about it, it kind of makes sense. They have the roster size to make it happen, and if it did occur then it might cut down on some of the injuries that have happened, because basically the work load would be cut in half.

Those appearing on RAW wouldn't have the travel and the workload on SD, and vice versa. I'm taking that this would include house shows as well. You would get a RAW or SD house show, and depending on how they split it both could work. It would also give those that we never see (Damien Sandow) a chance to get some TV time. Best part is it would make SD watchable again.

The only issues I can forsee are how would the title belts work, and the PPV's. In the old days we have either a RAW or SD PPV, and the 4 big included both roster's. The idea is an interesting one though, have Shane take over one brand and HHH and Step the other.

Another eerie footnote to all this, is that the RAW after Extreme Rules is being billed on Tickmaster as "RAW vs the WWE". So who knows what they have up their sleeves.

 

[Trill Co$by]

If you think about it, it kind of makes sense. They have the roster size to make it happen, and if it did occur then it might cut down on some of the injuries that have happened, because basically the work load would be cut in half.

This basically. The reason why things are so hectic is that they split up the brands and for some reason kept the very same number of tour dates. They can claim budget cuts all they want, but that's simply just not the case imo. Also, this allows them to tour twice the distance in half the time... in other words, when one goes West the other can go East and then somehow they meet back up for joint PPVs.

I'm more wondering how they'll do the titles if they do the brand split. Would they find a way to make the Unified WWE World Heavyweight title split again? And if so, does that mean the Big Gold will return or will they get a completely new title design?

Another eerie footnote to all this, is that the RAW after Extreme Rules is being billed on Tickmaster as "RAW vs the WWE". So who knows what they have up their sleeves.

Is it still like that? Last I heard, they had changed it and claimed it was a typo.

 

[rbv13]

If you think about it, it kind of makes sense. They have the roster size to make it happen, and if it did occur then it might cut down on some of the injuries that have happened, because basically the work load would be cut in half.

How exactly would the work load be cut in half? They would still be working five days a week. The only difference would be not seeing the same talents on the different programs. Just as they currently do there would be two separate touring groups putting on two shows a night.

 

[Navi]

I'm more wondering how they'll do the titles if they do the brand split. Would they find a way to make the Unified WWE World Heavyweight title split again? And if so, does that mean the Big Gold will return or will they get a completely new title design?

Is it still like that? Last I heard, they had changed it and claimed it was a typo.

Maybe the IC and Tag titles could be on SD and the WHC and US titles be on RAW, or whatever way they want it. I thought that why Daniel Bryan won the IC title at Mania last year. Wasn't he supposed to take that title there and not only elevate it but also the SD brand?

Last time I looked it had been billed as "RAW vs WWE". They might have changed it, haven't checked, but it's one hell of a type if that's what it is.

How exactly would the work load be cut in half? They would still be working five days a week. The only difference would be not seeing the same talents on the different programs. Just as they currently do there would be two separate touring groups putting on two shows a night.

Because whoever appears on RAW wouldn't have to rush to the next city for SD the next night. Also the SD guys would get a rest from not having to appear on RAW. And as I said in my other comment, the house show circuit could also be switched up so that they only work half the house shows they do now. I would throw some of the NXT guys in there to take the load off the main roster guys.

With the size of the roster they have, I'm sure they could do something, it's not impossible for crying out loud. There has always been talk of an off season, this would in a way replace it by giving the talent more time off. It's not perfect but it's a start. Do we really want to go through another year like we did last year? I'm getting the feeling that once the crop of injured wrestlers comes back, the ones who have been carrying the load will be out.

 

[rbv13]

Vince/WWE isn't likely going to reduce the schedule even with a Brand Split. When Raw is airing the SD! crew will be out on the road. They currently work five days a week and that will not change.

 

[Navi]

Vince/WWE isn't likely going to reduce the schedule even with a Brand Split. When Raw is airing the SD! crew will be out on the road. They currently work five days a week and that will not change.

You know what you are probably right but some of the comments made last week shows that a change might be in the works. They have never before acknowledged the amount of injured wrestlers there are. Shane did, and put the blame at the feet of Steph and HHH. Now it was probably a work, but there was an element of truth to it.

I've said before this schedule that they keep up would probably kill a normal person, it's a testament to what kind of shape they are in that they can keep going. If a brand split in any way, shape or form, gives them a rest even 3 days a week, then it's okay with me.

 

[Softcore Holly]

This is probably going to be a unpopular thought but I think the brand split may very well be only a matter of time, mainly due to the huge number of men and women they have on the roster. The last split roster topic had 2 people listing around 37 wrestlers per show, which even if we eliminated the part timers and the people that are leaving soon(BNB/Brie) still leaves a pretty crazy number of people. Especially since that number is still growing due to they constantly looking for new talent(as they should be) as well as developing their own on NXT. It's also come to my attention that even with WWE's incredible bad luck with injuries as of late they still have quite a few amount of people that don't show up on TV, and that's only going to get worse when all those injured people eventually recover. So there's a good chance that they would use the brand split as a way to find more people TV time. And course if this somehow gets the wrestlers extra days off so much the better.

 

[tvcolosi]

Haven't heard anyone else mention this. Shane agreed to give him the evidence vs Shane getting specifically Raw, not full control of WWE.

Taker wins, Shane then mentions he made copies of everything I the lock box and the stipulations were Vince get the evidence, nothing about Shane exposing it.
He threatens he will expose the truth unless Vince gives him Smackdown or nxt.

 

[BringThePain834]

No.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

A brand split is not the answer. They need to change the awful creative team. That's the first part. Secondly, they have three hours of Raw and they run boring segments that advance nothing. Even WCW Nitro, as full of nWo crap as it was, had plenty of action with the lower and mid card wrestlers. That's what WWE is not doing at the moment. Fast Lane was a perfect example of bullshit segments that do nothing. Splitting the brand despite having well over 10 hours of TV a week won't change that they do the same crap over and over

 

[therockiswwf]

I doubt they are even considering a brand split. The major reason is 3 hour Raws. That is very hard to book with a full roster. Booking it with half a roster is going to be damn near impossible. I think they realize that. Matches are going to be even more stretched out. When Rollins comes back, his boring 20 minute promos will become insomnia curing 40 minute promos (I like him but he isn't the best at long promos). Cena might have to hold 2 open challenges every Raw. Raw will become unbearable if they do a brand split.

Some say it is a great way for under-exposed talent to get some TV time. In most cases, that is actually a bad thing. There is usually a reason that a talent isn't used a lot. That reason is they suck.

I'm thinking that most dirtsheets are making this news up. I doubt they are really considering it. Most 'rumors' are just from us misinterpreting the promo and the dirtsheets running with clickbait. Like when WWE ran those 2/21/11 return promos for Taker. The whole time, it was meant for Taker. However, dirtsheets ran with 'rumors' that it could be Sting. The internet starts posting theories and dirtsheets seem to just run with them and claim they are actual news.

There is another thread about a guy wanting to change the name of Raw back to Raw is War. At the time, Raw is War made sense. Today, it makes sense that it is NOT called Raw is War (WCW is dead). The brand split made sense at the time (ECW/WCW talent made their roster gigantic). Today, it doesn't.

 

[dirtymonkey22]

it's weird just a few years ago the roster was extremely small and thats why they stopped the brand split , but since the Network started and NXT has blown up WWE's Roster has Gotten Huge. The roster is so big now we are being forced to see ton's of triple threats , 8man tags ........ but with a brand split you can give guys like sandow more tv time and actually divid up the divisions.

to make the split work though I say no new world Title have WWEworld on Raw and IC on Smackdown

 

[dirtymonkey22]

I hate how people say 3 hour raws are too long its the writers fault WWE only concentrates on the Main title but if they took care of every division time could be used properly

 

[gvt2000]

A brand split could work if done right. I'd introduce women tag team, have both the women's champion and the world champion switch between shows weekly with everyone tied to the story-line on those titles follow along. The rest of the titles would be split between the 2 shows.

Raw: Tag team and US title
Smackdown: Women tag team and IC title

 

[OYDK]

The only thing that could make me think this is a good idea is if, as Navi pointed out, it somehow were to lead to a lighter schedule for the entire roster. If they can cut the number of shows worked per week by the wrestlers without cutting shows themselves, or at least cut down on the travel schedule, everybody would win. You have to think WWE is taking this current string of injuries pretty seriously as it's pretty much decimated their roster at the most crucial point in the year, it's not out of the realm of possibility to believe they would do something to try and remedy that.

The only way this works in my opinion though, is if Shane stays and heads Raw and HHH and Steph control SD for a while. It's one of the very few angles available to justify another brand split. It would also be nice to see Shane have some say in Creative cus you know, otherwise nothing changes, brand split or not. As for the make-up of the titles if the brands were to split, I think it's pretty simple. Tag and US titles on SD, Divas and IC title on Raw with the World champion working both shows. Tag and Divas titles are interchangeable but you get the point.

A ton of things would have to go right for something like this to work and work well. I refuse to get my hopes up though. In all likelihood Shane leaves following Mania.

 

[Piss Bucket]

I doubt they are even considering a brand split. The major reason is 3 hour Raws. That is very hard to book with a full roster. Booking it with half a roster is going to be damn near impossible. I think they realize that. Matches are going to be even more stretched out. When Rollins comes back, his boring 20 minute promos will become insomnia curing 40 minute promos (I like him but he isn't the best at long promos). Cena might have to hold 2 open challenges every Raw. Raw will become unbearable if they do a brand split.

Some say it is a great way for under-exposed talent to get some TV time. In most cases, that is actually a bad thing. There is usually a reason that a talent isn't used a lot. That reason is they suck.

I'm thinking that most dirtsheets are making this news up. I doubt they are really considering it. Most 'rumors' are just from us misinterpreting the promo and the dirtsheets running with clickbait. Like when WWE ran those 2/21/11 return promos for Taker. The whole time, it was meant for Taker. However, dirtsheets ran with 'rumors' that it could be Sting. The internet starts posting theories and dirtsheets seem to just run with them and claim they are actual news.

There is another thread about a guy wanting to change the name of Raw back to Raw is War. At the time, Raw is War made sense. Today, it makes sense that it is NOT called Raw is War (WCW is dead). The brand split made sense at the time (ECW/WCW talent made their roster gigantic). Today, it doesn't.

That would've been me!

I do think Raw needs to go back to 2 hours though, especially considering the first hour lately has been HHH waffling on about whoever he's feuding with (Roman Reigns at the moment) plus about 2 matches.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The roster isn't strong enough and they don't bother with Smackdown when headliners like Reigns appear, so they won't when Styles is that shows main star. Not happening.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Sorry to be blunt but....fuck the brand split. The WWE brand itself is slowly becoming unwatchable week after boring week. Now imagine cutting talent out of the shows? You think people complained about Sheamus vs Randy Orton a thousand times? Ya! Picture how sick you're going to be seeing the same match ups week after week after week. Oh, R-Truth vs Ryback again this week? Damn how do I record this??? They need to revamp creative, remove Vince's involvement with any creative decision making, slide Triple H to the head of the table flanked by Steph and Shane and remove the PG era.

 

[Prince Vee]

The roster isn't strong enough and they don't bother with Smackdown when headliners like Reigns appear, so they won't when Styles is that shows main star. Not happening.

If the WWE keeps saying the roster isn't strong enough, when they're going to gamble with the raw talents to become the Main event stars? The roster isn't strong enough, I would agree with that; just because of so many top stars sustaining injuries in the past few months. But the thing is, this might be the good time to gamble with some decisions and when the Star power returns, both the shows will get even better.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Sounds pretty good to me. Let the speculation begin!

Raw

MAIN EVENT

Brock Lesnar
John Cena
Randy Orton
Roman Reigns (WWE Champion)
Seth Rollins
Sting
Triple H

UPPER MIDCARD

AJ Styles
Alberto Del Rio
Bray Wyatt
Bubba Ray Dudley
Kane
Kevin Owens

NXT CALL UPS

Chad Gable
Jason Jordan
Shinsuke Nakamura

THE REST

Adam Rose
Alex Riley
Curtis Axel
Darren Young
Erick Rowan
Jack Swagger
Jey Uso
Jimmy Uso
King Barrett
Konnor
The Miz
Neville
R-Truth
Ryback
Titus O'Neil
Viktor

Smackdown

MAIN EVENT

Big Show
Cesaro
Chris Jericho
Dean Ambrose (World Champion)
Sheamus
The Undertaker

UPPER MIDCARD

Braun Strowman
Dolph Ziggler
Kalisto
Luke Harper
Mark Henry
Rusev
The New Day

NXT CALL UPS

Colin Cassady
Enzo Amore
Finn Bálor
Samoa Joe

THE REST

Bo Dallas
D-Von Dudley
Damien Sandow
Diego
El Torito
Fandango
Fernando
Goldust
Heath Slater
Hornswoggle
Sin Cara
Stardust
Tyler Breeze
Tyson Kidd
Zack Ryder

And your logic for splitting the rosters this way? Or were you just trying to name talent? Is there a reason you're breaking up the Dudleyz and #socialoutcasts?

The brandsplit is a bad idea. There is a difference between a deep roster and having a bunch of people on contract. A deep roster would imply that there is a system in place where people know where they stand in the pecking order. From week to week, so many guys float back and forth from upper midcard to jerking the curtain. Is Kane a main eventer or a jobber? What about Mark Henry? What about the Big Show? Sheamus was jobbing out and a comedy act and then he won MitB out of nowhere. Then he's a transitional champion to get the belt to a transitional champipon to get the belt to HHH's transitional reigh that is designed to put the belt back on the second transitional champion. Somewhere, mid 90's Bob Backlund thinks he's CM Punk.

Also, why dies everyone keep putting AJ styles on Smackdown? It seems like everyone was so happy to see him get rescued from obscurity that they're in a rush to put him in obscurity.

 

[misterglover]

I doubt they are even considering a brand split. The major reason is 3 hour Raws. That is very hard to book with a full roster. Booking it with half a roster is going to be damn near impossible. I think they realize that. Matches are going to be even more stretched out. When Rollins comes back, his boring 20 minute promos will become insomnia curing 40 minute promos (I like him but he isn't the best at long promos). Cena might have to hold 2 open challenges every Raw. Raw will become unbearable if they do a brand split.

This is the exact reason I think there needs to be a brand split.....Too much Rollins, Cena, Reigns and whoever else. Meaning that the roster now is as big depth wise as it has been since the original brand split if not more so. Yet even with a 3 hour RAW and a 2 hour smackdown both shows basically revolve around the same 10 or so people plus the stupid recaps of everything we just watched on RAW even during RAW. A brand split is the best way to get others atleast involved. When Rollins comes back he is probably gonna get major TV time and a push, Reigns push in all honesty is just really starting because he hasn't fully conquered the authority yet or had a extended run with the belt, as long as Cena is around he is gonna be a major player because he brings Vince money, whenever Rock, Lesnar or Undertaker pop up they are gonna get a primetime slot on the card and of course anyone named McMahon is gonna get TV....thats not even counting the guys like Orton, Ambrose, Owens, Jericho(when he's around) thats are almost guaranteed to get some kind of program and face time. Thats a lot of time devoted to a small amount of guys. A brand split could be a way for them to get some of the other guys face time or a program however small.

Then there is the case of NXT, people are enjoying that brand/show and want to see how some of those guys would fare on the main roster but where do they fit and when would they fit it....Finn Balor is a 35 year old man with tons of wrestling mileage, Samoa Joe has to be atleast that age or older, same with AJ Styles....these are not 20 year olds these are men close to 40 years old, all have an audience that wants to see them make an impact but there just is no room on the product as currently constituted.

A brand split would in theory create more spots to use more guys...it probably wouldnt play out that way cuz creatively they have no clue but by definition there should be more opportunities created by splitting the rosters into 2 seperate groups and by creating more opportunities you also create more interest to see matchups because you now have a reason to care about a certain guy because you see him involved in something.

RAW could open with say Kalisto/Ziggler, top of 2nd hour Ambrose/Wyatt, top of 3rd Balor/Rollins....Smackdown could open with say Styles/Cesaro and start the 2nd hour with a reunited Zayn & Owens vs New Day.......im no matchmaker im just using Internet darlings for examples but you can get all those guys on TV and stiil have time for Reigns, Authority, and whatever else bullshit they are pushing creatively......it creates opportunities which is what they are missing big time how can i care about someone i never see do anything of importance...how can i care when my guy just keeps fighting the same people over and over a brand split is there best hope because creatively they just aren't very creative.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

the roster now is as big depth wise as it has been since the original brand split if not more so.

According to a report from PWInsider.com, there's been rumblings backstage about a potential brand split for the past several weeks, even before the return of Shane McMahon.

First off, as someone who is highly trained in the art of reading through bullshit, I feel very confident in saying there were no rumblings of any-fucking-thing.


A bunch of the sheets decided to jump at the chance to report on "rumblings" after Shane came back and some tickets were posted at Ticketmaster as "WWE Vs RAW".....Prompting the sheets to try to add 3 and 5 to get 10.


Turns out, the tickets were a typo, and it doesn't seem like Shane will be with the WWE past the WrestleMania angle.

Its blatantly obvious the sheets were trying to create a story that wasn't really there, and are now trying to back down using vague non-committal terms.

I listen to EVERY industry podcast and radio show, and not one single person said a single fucking word about this, ever.

Out of nowere, after the typo, now this is something that had been discussed for weeks? Get the fuck out of here.


Everyone calm down. Its not happening.








Could it be done and done well? Yea. Will it? No, probably not. Some fundamental changes would need to happen to SmackDown to make it worthwhile, and I just don't feel like that could happen with the way the top of the WWE food chain is constructed right now.


The roster is deep on talent, laughably low on star power. They need to prove they can fix that before we talk about the bennies of a brand split.

 

[FromTheSouth]

...how can i care when my guy just keeps fighting the same people over and over a brand split is there best hope because creatively they just aren't very creative.

Exactly. I agree 100% with the statement I bolded. Now you want them to add more story lines? If you have a creative team that lacks depth (much like the roster) why are you going to split them up? Half of creative handles Raw, half Smackdown? So, this entire group can't come up with three hours of end to end solid programming, you're going to ask two halves to come up with five?

 

[misterglover]

I meant by numbers....meaning they probably have about 50-60 people on the main roster & NXT. How good or entertaining you feel those people are is each individual persons opinion

Exactly. I agree 100% with the statement I bolded. Now you want them to add more story lines? If you have a creative team that lacks depth (much like the roster) why are you going to split them up? Half of creative handles Raw, half Smackdown? So, this entire group can't come up with three hours of end to end solid programming, you're going to ask two halves to come up with five?

But this is where wrestling becomes like politics....do you want big government or minimal involvment. The expectations people put on creative is borderline crazy. They come up with maybe 2-3 big angles at a time and have 3 or 4 smaller "issues" running at the same time and almost all of them are just about equally as bad as the next. So many people complain about creative but how can anyone come up with fresh ideas for 50 or so guys at the same time with no offseason or season finale to take time off?? They focus on about 5 people at a time, usually the same 5 then find "things" for about 5 more to do. My point is this, the brand extension wont make them more creative but it will create more TV time (in theory) for more people. Everyone cant be involved in a major angle, its impossible but what they can all do is put on outstanding wrestling matches. Would you rather watch the same 10 people every week with 1 major plot line going on and 4 or 5 smaller ones or watch about 20 people alternately involved in smaller storylines. That provides more variety of matchups and better in ring product?? Seems to me the midcard belts become more important if the champ is defending them against a different challenger every week and coming out on top after an amazing match instead of Kalisto/Del Rio every week for 2 months with no real story to it or Owens/Ziggler for the 500th time with no real story to it.

My vision of a brand extension isn't designed to make creative better it's designed to give the viewer variety and the performers opportunities to perform. The machine didnt make Daniel Bryan a star, the fans did based on his work...the machine didnt make Ambrose legit, their vision of him was just the crazy 3rd guy from the Shield, the fans said we like him based off his work, what made the original smackdown 6 so great was there in ring work, there was no major angle other than 6 guys fighting for the belts and bragging rights, the machine didn't make NXT did the fans did based off the in ring work those guys were putting out.....forget being so dependent on major angles, lets get back to in ring action as the hook on a wrestling show....picture that

 

[Mighty NorCal]

But this is where wrestling becomes like politics....do you want big government or minimal involvment. The expectations people put on creative is borderline crazy. They come up with maybe 2-3 big angles at a time and have 3 or 4 smaller "issues" running at the same time and almost all of them are just about equally as bad as the next. So many people complain about creative but how can anyone come up with fresh ideas for 50 or so guys at the same time with no offseason or season finale to take time off?? They focus on about 5 people at a time, usually the same 5 then find "things" for about 5 more to do. My point is this, the brand extension wont make them more creative but it will create more TV time (in theory) for more people. Everyone cant be involved in a major angle, its impossible but what they can all do is put on outstanding wrestling matches. Would you rather watch the same 10 people every week with 1 major plot line going on and 4 or 5 smaller ones or watch about 20 people alternately involved in smaller storylines. That provides more variety of matchups and better in ring product?? Seems to me the midcard belts become more important if the champ is defending them against a different challenger every week and coming out on top after an amazing match instead of Kalisto/Del Rio every week for 2 months with no real story to it or Owens/Ziggler for the 500th time with no real story to it.

My vision of a brand extension isn't designed to make creative better it's designed to give the viewer variety and the performers opportunities to perform. The machine didnt make Daniel Bryan a star, the fans did based on his work...the machine didnt make Ambrose legit, their vision of him was just the crazy 3rd guy from the Shield, the fans said we like him based off his work, what made the original smackdown 6 so great was there in ring work, there was no major angle other than 6 guys fighting for the belts and bragging rights, the machine didn't make NXT did the fans did based off the in ring work those guys were putting out.....forget being so dependent on major angles, lets get back to in ring action as the hook on a wrestling show....picture that

This is an issue for another thread, but....



Wrestling shouldn't require that much creativity. At its core, its a simulated combat sport. You wanna know what the angle is? I have a match with you, so I want to beat you.


You don't need to have more than two or three "angles" at once, if you institute a top ten rankings and bring back squash matches, you could fill out a brand split just fine.


If anything, wrestling has become WAY overwrought and overthought.




All this, however, goes back to what I mentioned about major fundamental overhauls to SmackDown that will never happen. It would need a different booking team, and be much more sports presentation / squash based, much like NXT.



Which will never happen.