Hey, all you have to do is let your wife at them
Thats true. My wife used to kickbox, and shes knocked me loopy more then once when we've been goofing around.
Very well, and I'm glad you can see the issue with the cat calling. But we both know this isn't the issue you disagree with most.
No, the issue I disagree with most is this idea that flattering a woman or calling her beautiful is completely self-serving, or to use her words, as the "arbiter of her value." Just as it's presumptuous to say that a woman would be appreciative if I made a 'PG' comment such as "You're Beautiful", it's in the same way presumptuous for her to anoint herself as representative of all women, and tell men that they are doing it for
them, and not for the
woman.
Because let me assure you: I did and said plenty of things when I met my wife in order to try and make her happy, not for myself. And this was before we were dating, and I had any hope of us doing so. Among those things was compliment her, from the first time I met her until the time she walked out the door this morning. My intent, in that sense, has never changed:
Put a smile on her face.
In the same vein, thats not to say this young lady is wrong to feel the way she does. From how she describes herself, I have no doubt she's attractive, and thus, hears it quite often, and in crude ways. And she has every right to be sick of it.
You know why I bolded the word I did, right?
I do. Because my wife is someone I know and have a strong bond with. At
best, a woman I see on the street is someone I have a brief mutual attraction to. At
best.
There's a far cry between your wife, and a random stranger on the street. Of course I wouldn't doubt calling your wife beautiful. I do the same with my girlfriend; I didn't start the relationship by whistling out my car and calling her beautiful.
I wasn't necessarily using my wife as an example to show the difference between the two, or give the green light to men who harass women sexually through verbal means. But is it wrong that I did call my wife beautiful the first time I met her? The context is important, sure, as I didn't whistle out a window. However, I did read a situation, and made a decision to say something that could have caused me great troubles.
The least of which would have been a sharp kick to the jaw.
Or, for that matter, ask if she was wearing a thong.
No, and that's the kind of man who makes a woman feel objectified, and eventually, as cold and callous as the young lady who wrote this particular blog is. And if these are the comments she receives all the time, I don't blame her in the slightest. It would be exhausting to simply be objectified by your looks or the type of clothing you wear. And eventually, every man would blend together and regardless of what they say or their intent, they become the man who asked if she was wearing a thong, to her.
I'm just going to post this cartoon here, and believe (because I do) you'll understand the relavance;
I do. It's quite relevant.
Is that every man in the world? Of course not. Does it start to appear that way when you have so many unwarranted comments on your sex appeal?I'm sure it does.
See above. I believe I covered this thoroughly, but to answer the question briefly, yes, absolutely. Unwarranted, crude comments from men on a consistent basis will eventually make it impossible for a woman to differentiate between the sincere, and the douschebags.
And what's good hearted about asking about a thong?
Nothing. But in the same vein, shes assuming that all men who say things, even simple complimentary ones, are doing so just to deem the woman "F***able", to use her words. Or to be the arbiter of her value.
She's speaking to the intentions of all others, and for all women as well with her blog. And that is where she's truly off-base. No one has the right to say
she's wrong to feel the way she does, but, in the same vein, its not on her to speak to
everyone's intentions, or how
all women feel when hit on.
And I don't doubt that; you seem like a very nice person, even from the limited interaction I've had with you.The problem becomes, the woman might not have that limited reaction. And even then, it seems presumptuous that this would make her day.
This is a fair point. I attempt to be, and always have. I was raised to be respectful of others, and women specifically. But I've never been shy about flirting with a woman, albeit respectfully.
And you're right. Sometimes its been received well, and others, with disdain.
The point is, if it's a stranger, you do not know her, you do not know what the rest of her day was like, and most importantly, you do not know her boundaries. It's best not to assume that you do, and that's a pretty good general rule. If you are an absolute expert at reading body language, you might be able to bend that rule, but it's a good starting point. And it's not that you can't compliment a woman, it's that you shouldn't compliment her appearance specifically. It's one thing to say "that's a really pretty dress!" and another to say "You got a nice ass". But even "You're really pretty!" can be a bad idea when you don't know someone.
In general, I agree with this, and its how I advise people to act with regards to my job. As a man, or woman, I advise them to start by complimenting the inanimate(how they're dressed for example), and if well-received, move on to physical appearance later. Yet, in the same vein, you mentioned body language. Part of body language is what a woman is wearing, and how she puts it 'out there.' I don't doubt that the woman who wrote this blog was dressed appropriately, and greeted with an inappropriate sexual advance.
But I know women,
client's specifically, who dress certain ways to get sexual attention from men. They want to hear things such as "Nice ass" or Great Legs", and dress in a way that draws that specific attention. I'm not being presumptuous here, these women have told me this for a fact. Some have come to sessions specifically dressed like this, and have seemed almost disappointed when it hasn't elicited that reaction out of me.
In the end, you're right. As men, we don't know what the boundaries are for women, so it's best to approach every woman as if they're the same. And that's to treat them respectfully and not objectify them. But I ask you to correct me if I'm wrong: Haven't you met or, at least, seen women who want you to objectify them, based on how they dress?
Again, I ask this not being presumptuous, but as someone who has dealt with women with self-esteem so low that they crave that objectifying in order to feel better about themselves. And then, in the same vein, there are men, ignorant ones, mind you, but men nonetheless who get so used to dealing with women who like being objectified, that they start to believe(wrongly) that all women enjoy it. And hence you get comments like the one directed at the woman who obviously didn't want it, but goes to the opposite extreme.
Again, you'll note the bolded word.
Absolutely. Its completely different for me to objectify my wife then it is a complete stranger. But if
all I did was objectify my wife, it would piss her off after awhile. On the other hand, if I
never objectified her, she wouldn't like that much either.
I think it also becomes a problem when we then shame the victim when she runs into the creeps. You've at least given me good discourse; what you're about to see are the words that borderline misogyny. And when we don't call it said bullshit, like this girl we did, we implicitly tell creeps that it's ok to act like creeps.
I've bolded this because it's an important point. I'm not saying, mind you, that it leads to rape, but its the same attitude. A man who objectifies a woman, which leads to her shaming, creates a semblance of power and control over her. It says
She's the one who's wrong for speaking up. And why do men rape? It's not for sex.
It's for power and control.
Society, while I'd like to think we've progressed in this sense, does the same thing to rape victims.
Look at how's she dressed. She was asking for it.
In essence, I agree with the woman speaking up against a creep who asked her about her thong. I disagree with how she did it, however, and with much of what she said as well.
