Why Finn Balor main-eventing Summerslam is wrong for the WWE

[CyberPunk]

A lot of what I'll write here would be more of reiterating what has already been said. Putting Finn Balor in one of the main events of SummerSlam is smart. The card is already stacked. It's not like they are putting any John Smith in that position. Out of all NXT graduates, Finn has the most appeal at this time. He is fresh for the WWE audience, has name recognition, a decent wrestler and most of all, marketable. It's not like they put Apollo Crews or Bo Dallas into that position. It's a nice change of pace. Putting one NXT graduate into a co main event of SummerSlam is hardly catering to the IWC (a term I still don't understand).

 

[stingray11214]

Before I start, as someone who actually has SEEN the Territorial Era, a little background. I started watching Pro Wrestling back in 1974. Actually fell into it by accident. My Mother allowed me to stay up past Midnight one Saturday night. I could watch either a Godzilla flick on Channel 11 ("War of the Monsters") or Wrestling. Well, me just turning 8, I chose Godzilla. Wellll, it just happened to be on a series called Chiller Theater. Anyone who remembers Chiller in New York knows about that six-fingered hand that came from the grave in the intro (You can see it on YouTube today). Needless to say, Channel 9 went on fast. So, was the IWA.

Yes, the IWA featuring Dick "The Bulldog" Brower, The Mighty Igor with his Kielbasa, Gino Brito and Dino Bravo, Ivan Koloff was in that timeslot. For those of you who did not know, the IWA was the first attempt at a "National" promotion. It was bankrolled by Chicago White Sox owner, Eddie Einhorn. Needless to say, the IWA would soon crash and burn, and the Midnight time slot would be taken over by the World Wide Wrestling Federation. And, every Saturday at Midnight, I would be in front of the TV watching Chief Jay Strongbow, Billy White Wolf, Ivan Putski, and once in a while, Bruno. It was almost like going to Sunday Mass for me. With Vince McMahon, Jr., in his mustard yellow suit, doing solo commentary. Even in the pre-recorded promos to upcoming cards in such places like Parsippany, New Jersey and Poughkeepsie, NY, he wore that yellow suit. One hour, six matches, a crapload of pre-recorded promos, and you were set for a week.

However, it also stoked me to sneak out of bed, and turn the TV on for other nights. Championship Wrestling from Florida on Monday with Gordon Solie, The Los Angeles Promotion on Tuesday nights. Jimmy Lennon, Sr. was the ring announcer for such stars as John Tolos, Al Madril, The Twin Devils. And the WWWF on Friday Night. It led to a long-time fandom of the squared circle. I saw Pat Patterson, Mr. Fuji and Curt Hennig at St. Mary's Church (I called Hennig Little Ax, and he fell down laughing!), Pedro Morales and Domenick Denucci at Guadalupe Hall, Tony Garea and Rick Martel gave me a ride home from a card at Regina Pacis in Brooklyn. (They needed directions to the Belt Parkway, and I told them I would show them. My house was on the way.)

Why do I mention what I am mentioning? I have seen wrestling evolve in many forms. From the height and seeming collapse of the Territories, to the Monday Night War, to what we have today: The Big fish, a few smaller fishes, and a whole boatload of neons, guppies and minnows. We have seen the once beloved WWWF turn into a Publicly-traded WWE. Georgiann Makropolous, may she rest in peace, was like a mother or sister to every WWWF wrestler from her seat in the front row at Ridgewood Grove and the Garden. She would not even recognize the company anymore. If she did the things with the WWE stars today that she did with those from yesteryear, like bake cookies, knit stuff for them, even offer to do their laundry (No, she was NOT an employee.) She would likely be arrested and barred from WWE events!

Slyfox, I respect you as the Admin and owner of WZ. You have to put up with a lot of shit regarding this site. Few people can handle the nonsense you go through. If this was any other time, I would agree that Finn Balor should NOT be in the Main Event at SummerSlam. Problem is this is NOT any other time. WWE has Balor in the Main Event not because they want him in it. It is because they NEED him in it.

Why? Because they hardcore is abandoning WWE in droves. Why is this happening? Answer: I was at a WrestlePro event a few months ago, and I was speaking to a Joshi fan by the CYO concession stand. I asked him why would you choose an Indy event over a WWE event. He said "Well, I had a choice: Do a go to a WWE show where I MIGHT see Sasha Banks? Or, do I go to an Indy show where I WILL see Santana Garrett, Mia Yim and LuFisto?" You see, the Indies are giving the Pro Wrestling fan what they want.

Look at the last releases: Damien Sandow is bringing down houses wherever he goes. Brooklyn's Tier 1 Wrestling's next show on Sunday is entitled "A Savior Amongst Us". Safe to say that this event to be held at a Church hall is not exactly centered around Jesus. PJ Black is a hit on the Circuit. Cody Rhodes is having matches we only fantasize about. Even Adam Rose is getting bombarded with dates. As much as they were badly booked, or maybe used wrong, they still had fans. And those fans will go see them. And buy their merch. And shake their hand. And pay $20 for a photo op.

I know, you and many others on this board scoff at them. "They sucked" you say. Maybe WWE did not know how to utilize them. But, for you and many of you, if it is not WWE, it is garbage. It is "Little League" Slyfox, you said that RoH's camera work looked like it was done by a 10 year old with a camcorder. The reality is that they have FANS. Companies like RoH, PWG, Paragon and WrestlePro make the wrestling FIRST. They acknowledge that they are Pro Wrestling companies. What is WWE? Not even WWE has a clue as to what it is.

Oh, yes. WWE is a "multi-platform entertainment company". It is a nice sentence saying that they try to be all things to all people. In reality, they are becoming nothing to nobody. Do you really buy the WWE Network for "Holy Foley"? "Swerved"? Maybe they need to cut out the nonsense and put the money into their bread and butter: Professional wrestling.

So, how do you grow fans? First, you shore up your base. If your base would rather pay $50 to see a WrestlePro card featuring Johnny Mundo against Habib from the Car Wash and a 3-way tag team match featuring Aldo Rose and PJ "Justin Gabriel" Black vs Kevin Matthews and Craven Varro vs Massage NV ("Get the Oil!") then want to see a WWE event, the WWE has got some real soul searching to do. You have RoH with another Field of Honor a week later. How many people would rather go to that than SummerSlam? Take a look at what you see in the front rows of RAW or SmackDown. You see a lot of Bullet Club, Young Bucks, and even reDRagon shirts in that crowd. What should that tell you?

Second, you need to get real within your company. Stop the Hollywood fantasy. They mind what they do. WWE should mind what they should be doing: Putting on great WRESTLING shows. They need to realize that there ARE other companies out there: TNA, RoH, MCW, Jersey's Old Time Wrestling, Shimmer, PWG, Lucha Underground and dozens of others. I for one watch and/or attend TNA, RoH, NJPW, Shimmer, Stardom, WrestlePro, NYWC And If I can, LU. I do watch RAW and SmackDown, but not with the same enthusiasm. To that end, they need to stop with "Noun, verb, John Cena". Yes, he is the "face" of the WWE. However, you have buried everyone else in order to protect him. Now, you need to start the transition. He is getting old. Let him lose an "I Quit" match. Let him lose clean. You will give the rub to the future.

Thirdly, some of you need to do your own soul searching. I am proud to say that I am a fan of the art form of Professional Wrestling. I read Slyfox, and he seems to forget that he is one of the guardians of the IWC. He is the Admin of a site that is about Pro Wrestling. Problem is that he, and many others, are NOT fans of Pro Wrestling. They are fans of Sports Entertainment. There IS a difference. Pro Wrestling is about the art and science of Pro Wrestling. Entrance, promos, fight, leave. And, it is treated as a sport. RoH does this. Incredibly, so does LU. Sports Entertainment is about Hollywood, movie stars, bright lights, runways and red carpets, who is going to be in the front row this week, heavily scripted promos that are so ridiculous as to be getting earraped, "interview" segments that are so scripted as to be unbelievable. Some of these promos are so bad, it would make a Kamala promo sound like Andre Braugher reciting Macbeth!
This is not Wrestling, but Sports Entertainment. And it is hurting the company.

In closing, WWE may be "The biggest, the best, and on TV every week", but it is hiding a very large tumor. The "casual" will not come back unless given a reason to come back. And, if the "lifers" and "Hard core" and "pro wrestling fan" are looking to Other major promotions and local or regional Indy cards, why should the "casual" fan spend time on WWE. You say that the hard core would have gotten SummerSlam anyway? Perhaps. However, Finn Balor being in the Main Event does something else:

It gets the hard core to at least consider coming back.

Finn Balor in the Main Event was the right call for the right reasons.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

The continual growth in subscriber numbers suggests otherwise. As someone who yearly puts together ratings and live event attendance information, I challenge you to support your claims here, while also adjusting for streaming, the Network, DVR and piracy.

I'll wait.

WrestleMania did $4 million in PPV business, down from $4.9 million last year. The WWE stopped reporting PPV numbers because they've gotten so small. But that's probably in the range of 210,000 worldwide buys (the vast majority coming from outside North America, if last year's percentage breakdown was the same it would be about 83,000 in North America), an 18 percent decline from last year. We had heard from people at U.S. cable companies after Mania this year shocked at how far down they were from the prior year.

Which would be great if they all jumped over to subscribe to the network (for a fifth of the price).

Except they offered a free month, so instead 400,000 people watched Mania for free.

For WWE, the company averaged 3,900 in house show attendance and 9,000 in Raw attendance. Numbers last year were 5,600 in house shows and 8,400 for Raws, however if you take out comps the monthly average was 4,693. For this year, we won’t have the paid breakdown because of how the WWE has cut back on releasing information. The number will be available in about two months, but regular house shows appear to be down 30 percent from last year.

The average 2016 TV rating for RAW is 2.41
In 2013 it was 3.01
In 2011 it was 3.21

We're people not able to pirate or stream RAW in 2013? Was the DVR invented in 2015?

Then why cater to Internet wrestling fans who tend to like terrible wrestling?

Obviously 'good' wrestling is subjective and the term 'internet fan' is an incredible anachronism because 99% of fans use the internet, but lets go by what I assume you mean is the "IWC".

People who the IWC like generally do great business, have critically acclaimed matches, bring lots of exposure to the product or all three.

CM Punk was beloved by the IWC for years before he got his push, and once he was positioned in a top position, the 'casual' audience followed suit. Daniel Bryan is a similar case.

Roman Reigns, who was generally disliked by the 'IWC' and seen as "not ready", has led to declining ratings and disappointing matches, leading to a drop in business across the board.

To say the IWC doesn't like good wrestling is deliberately asinine, but then again, this is Wrestlezone Forums and we are talking to the admin.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

at the end of the day, let face it, it doesn't really matter if Finn Bàlor is popular with the IWC or not, the only guy that bàlor need to be popular with is Vince McMahon and for vince to like you and to continue having him as a fan, you need to prove that your what'S best for business. Which mean, do you bring a revenue stream for the company via merchandise sells, live event gates and network subscribers/ppv buys. If finn is put in a main event position for a couple of months and his merchandise sells is in the top 5, subcritions to the network are up and live event tickets sells go up not to mention ratings for Raw, then finn will be a main eventer, if he fails to delivers then vince will move on to the next project which will probably be him going back to the drawing board with roman reigns.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I was 6 years old and knew who Ric Flair was. I'm pretty sure you could have found SOMEONE who hadn't, but most wrestling fans had.

That's you. That's not everyone. There were probably twice as many WWE fans that didn't know Ric as oppose to who did know. Despite WWE realizing this, they still went ahead and pushed him to the main event.

Actually, Ric Flair never came close to getting over like the WWE hoped, which is why they willingly let him go a year and a half later.

When you throw away Hogan vs. Flair on a random house show, and then never go anywhere else with it; that tends to happen.

Chris Jericho came from a cable TV show which had been running neck and neck with Raw for years.

That still doesn't mean that everyone knew who he was. What are you not getting in that? I know you're not dense, so what's so hard to understand that just because views are even in count that doesn't mean their equal in the people who watch the products. There are, were, and will always be those who are dedicated to simply one brand. So for those people, who never saw WCW, to see a guy like Jericho come over to Raw and be shoved right into the main event makes absolute ZERO difference. It's the exact same thing.

Another bad example.

You're just not getting the picture here. This is the exact same thing that they did with Jericho. Practically identical, and it worked out for Jericho so why can't it work for Finn Balor? It's never bad to take a risk on someone new, because it's always a win-win for the WWE.

I'm not going to bother explaining to you the difference between Lesnar and Balor. If you cannot figure out yourself, then perhaps you ought to leave the discussion.

Considering WWE chose to let Balor be drafted in the first round and save Lesnar for a throw away second round pick, I'm pretty sure comparing Balor to Lesnar isn't that bad of an idea. Not to mention, if your initial post is about the audience not recognizing a newer face being thrown into the main event, then the example given about a new face being thrown into the main event is more than valid. Especially when it's known that smaller guys usually get bigger followings due to them being more like the common fan.

--

Let me try it with another example. I assume you're a fan of the NFL, and if not then let's just pretend you are (or exchange the following with NHL, MLB, FIFA, NBA, etc) and just get to the point here.

The NCAA, every year, sends a large portion of their senior and junior classmen to the NFL. Then a team like say, the Dallas Cowboys, comes along and picks QB - Eric Donivic (Random Generated Name) out of Ohio State in the first round. The QB is then sent to training camp, and after completing it, he's given the new starting roll as Quarterback. Now, on average the NFL is absolutely the highest rated show on television in the United States. There's literally very little competition. Meanwhile the NCAA, which in itself is on free cable television, while profitable is still completely nowhere near that level of a draw. In short, a huge majority of the NFL fans don't know who the hell these NCAA guys are. But do you think the Cowboys' head coach is worried about that? Do you think that he's going to say, "Well Donivic doesn't have experience throwing on Sunday nights, so let's put back in Tony Romo" and ignore the fact that throughout training camp Donivic proved to his coaches that he deserved the top spot? No. The coach is going to say, "Kid, this is the first game... go out there, complete a few short passes, get comfortable, and relax so you can get this win." and he's going to send that QB out there.

Right now, Finn Balor is that rookie QB. And just like with the Cowboys, if Finn Balor doesn't work out then they can push him down the card to the US title picture. WWE does it all the time. It's trial and error. That's how you MAKE NEW STARS. Why aren't you understanding this? You're smarter than a lot of people here, so it's really baffling me.

 

[Navi]

Something else I forgot to add to my previous post is this. Finn Balor is not the first NXT call-up, before him you have the Shield, Owens, Zayn, Charlotte, Becky Lynn, Sasha Banks, Baron Corbin and Apollo Crews.

Corbin and Crews even though they are a still a little green have been doing okay for themselves. Owens has already won the IC title, Charlotte and Banks the Women's title and the Shield, well all three of them have multiple titles to their credit. All have been WWE champ, Reigns and Rollins were tag champs and Ambrose has held the US and IC titles. So they have paved the way for wrestler's like Finn Balor. Reigns looks to be back in the hunt for the US title at this time.

Like other's have said, this is a stacked card and even though he's in a match for the new title, it's not the main event so they can take a chance. Most if not all of the NXT guys have gotten a good reception from the casual's and the hardcore base. All you have to do is listen to the pop that Bayley got at Battleground to see that even the casual's in the audience know who she is. When she does debut full time, I'm expecting that she will be the female equivalent of Daniel Bryan.

Even if you don't watch NXT I'm sure you appreciate good wrestling like all wrestling fans do, and Balor can put on one hell of a match any place any time. He is enjoyable to watch in the ring and has a ton of charisma, especially when he puts on the paint. I don't think it was a bad decision at all. It's the perfect card to put him in a title match, even though I do think Rollins will take it. It does elevate him and a loss at this point in time won't hurt him going forward.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Something else I forgot to add to my previous post is this. Finn Balor is not the first NXT call-up, before him you have the Shield, Owens, Zayn, Charlotte, Becky Lynn, Sasha Banks, Baron Corbin and Apollo Crews.

Corbin and Crews even though they are a still a little green have been doing okay for themselves. Owens has already won the IC title, Charlotte and Banks the Women's title and the Shield, well all three of them have multiple titles to their credit. All have been WWE champ, Reigns and Rollins were tag champs and Ambrose has held the US and IC titles. So they have paved the way for wrestler's like Finn Balor. Reigns looks to be back in the hunt for the US title at this time.

Like other's have said, this is a stacked card and even though he's in a match for the new title, it's not the main event so they can take a chance. Most if not all of the NXT guys have gotten a good reception from the casual's and the hardcore base. All you have to do is listen to the pop that Bayley got at Battleground to see that even the casual's in the audience know who she is. When she does debut full time, I'm expecting that she will be the female equivalent of Daniel Bryan.

Even if you don't watch NXT I'm sure you appreciate good wrestling like all wrestling fans do, and Balor can put on one hell of a match any place any time. He is enjoyable to watch in the ring and has a ton of charisma, especially when he puts on the paint. I don't think it was a bad decision at all. It's the perfect card to put him in a title match, even though I do think Rollins will take it. It does elevate him and a loss at this point in time won't hurt him going forward.

nice point and considering that they are in brooklyn, finn will be super over at summerslam but beyond that it's another story. I think that in vince and HHH's mind, they wanted quick fix to replace reigns in the main event picture for summerslam since they lost confidence in Reigns, the problem with that is when you hotshot somebody into the main event picture, normally it doesn'T stick and vince lose interest and the guy get stuck in the mid card. Perfect exemple would be kevin owen, here a guy that one year ago was in a main event program with John Cena, he was suppose to be the second biggest heel behind seth rollins and the feud ended and vince got tired of him and he got put in the midcard losing a lot of matches along the way. Yeah he was a 2 times ic champ but when he ask to be place in the undertaker match at wrestlemania, he was told that he wasn't important enough to be considered for that match and instead he loss the ic belt to zach ryder.

The fact is, they are taking a chance on finn, but the bottom line is if ratings don't move, his merchandise sells does generate enough money for the company and live eventgates and network subcribers don'T go up, then by hell in the cell, Finn will be put in the mid card like everybody else that can have great matches and vince will go back to reigns as is pet project.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I can understand where Slyfox is coming from in his original post. If one didn't follow or watch NXT then it's kind of much for this new guy to be propelled into the Main Event on the second biggest show of the year....all in one single RAW without giving non Balor knowledge people a reason to think he deserves it so fast.

At first glance, he's pretty unremarkable to the uninformed, his mic skills are mid to low range compared to others and he doesn't scream - Main Event- by looking at him.

But to those that have followed his career and know what The Demon is all about, well that's pretty exciting for them. Myself I've watched probably 4 Fin Balor matches previous to his Raw domination debut. He really does deserve to be the Main Event IMO. He is an excellent worker in the ring, his Demon entrance for PPVs is unique and awesome and his mic skills are not bad now and then. His match at Summerslam
vs Seth Rollins is my most anticipated match by far. No doubt it'll challenge for match of the year.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

A) He's not really main-eventing. He's in the 4th most important match on the card, the other ones being Orton vs Lesnar, Cena vs Styles and Ambrose vs Ziggler.

B) Yeah he's in a spot he really shouldn't be. I think Cesaro was the better pick for that spot, since he's been on the main roster for so long and never really had an one-on-one shot at a World Championship.

C) But WWE rode the hype train and atm Finn Balor sells more than Cesaro. Balor is a moving merch treasure, with the Balor Club signs and his Demon persona.

D) The Universal Championship is not really a world title, not yet, but it will become one with time and proper booking.

THAT being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Balor wins at Summerslam. The UC is a new title, a newborn title. I think Balor could win at Summerslam in order to hype the Demon. Then he would quickly lose the belt to Rollins, on RAW or at another PPV, in his normal form. Then Rollins would go on on a lengthy reign to bring prestige to the belt.

That way you sell the Demon and also have Rollins come out as the champ.

Just think about that, do you remember better that Buddy Rogers was the first WWWF Champion and held the belt for 22 days, or that Bruno Sammartino (who was the 2nd champ), held the belt for 8 years?

 

[Slyfox696]

So who or what expands the base in this spot?

I don't have an answer for that, but I'm fairly certain the booking your product in a way that only a limited number of fans would understand or appreciate isn't going to be it.

To me, something new is more likely to bring in a casual or new fan than most established veterans. Plus, when you're talking about expanding a base I think you are looking to reach children and foreigners. I think Balor may have that appeal.

I'm not arguing against Balor. I'm arguing against the booking which put him in the title match.

It's weird reading this from you of all people. Someone who has written many a diatribe about pro wrestling being about money. I don't think WWE cares that much if a section of their fans are unreliable with their reactions (not that I agree, IWC smarks are pretty predictable).

They are not predictable when it comes to how they regard wrestlers. And, obviously, money is the #1 goal, but you make money from quality stories. If your audience is constantly undermining your product, as the internet fan is more likely to do, then it's hard to have compelling stories.

How does Cena/Styles and Lesnar/Orton ignore the Casuals?

I'm referring to the big picture.

How do you know that though? It's the age of the internet. Not all casual fans are just people that watch TV. Cable cutting is more popular than ever. Plenty of those subscribers are casuals that are excited to see pay per views for the first time because it's so cheap.

Raw gets 3 million viewers every week. The WWE Network has roughly 1.5 million subscribers. And you have to assume not all subscribers watch NXT.

Casual fans don't come back simply due to appealing to them.

They could. But they certainly don't come back by not appealing to them.

Slyfox, I respect you as the Admin and owner of WZ.

I appreciate it.

Slyfox, you said that RoH's camera work looked like it was done by a 10 year old with a camcorder.

I don't think I said that.

I think what I said is a 10 year old with a camcorder would have better production values than what I see on ROH. I then went on to say a local promotion who had like 20 people in the audience had better production values.

The reality is that they have FANS.

Yes, but fans who don't understand wrestling. Which is a whole other issue I thought about including, but decided to reserve for another thread in the near future.

Do you really buy the WWE Network for "Holy Foley"? "Swerved"? Maybe they need to cut out the nonsense and put the money into their bread and butter: Professional wrestling.

I buy the Network for the PPVs. But things like Total Divas, Swerved, old episodes of PPV and TV, Legends, Dinner for 3, etc. all keep me interested.

I'd respond more to your very detailed post, but I'm trying to address a few different things. If I get time and remember, I'll come back and provide you with the more detailed response your post deserves.

Which would be great if they all jumped over to subscribe to the network (for a fifth of the price).

Comparing one show one year over the other does not make any point, as there are so many factors which play into it. Also, if Wrestlemania this year was worse than last year, wouldn't that play into my point?

Also, while I know you were quoting WON, the WWE didn't stop reporting PPVs because they were low, they stopped reporting them because they have the Network.

Also, where is your evidence that live event attendance is down, as you claimed?

The average 2016 TV rating for RAW is 2.41
In 2013 it was 3.01
In 2011 it was 3.21
We're people not able to pirate or stream RAW in 2013? Was the DVR invented in 2015?

2011: 3.2
2012: 3.0
2013: 3.0
2014: 3.0
2015: 2.6

I'm sorry, the facts don't support your position. Furthermore, if ratings are lower in 2016 than they were previously, does that not also support my point? I said "Over the last year, [the booking] has drastically pivoted towards the Internet fan." Does providing me a 2016 rating lower than previous years not prove my point?

And, to answer your question about pirating and streaming, you and I both know full well the capabilities are greater today than they ever have been, not to mention the WWE has their own Network which shows Raw replays.

The fact is you cannot provide facts to support your claim and the only facts you've provided can only be interpreted as to supporting MY claim.

To say the IWC doesn't like good wrestling is deliberately asinine

No it's not, it's absolutely factual.

The stereotypical Internet fan does not care about quality wrestling. They want wrestling that makes them, the fan, feel smart. They want flippys and they want chain wrestling, regardless of whether or not it makes sense. They want their wrestlers to break the fourth wall, because it makes the fan feel like they are ultra cool. The stereotypical Internet fan likes to chant stupid stuff like "You can't wrestle", even directed against one of the greatest wrestlers in the world.

No, the type of fan we are both discussing most definitely does NOT like good wrestling. They don't care about developing a story between the ropes. They think a headlock is a "rest hold". They think workrate refers to pacing. They don't like good wrestling...or at the very least, don't understand what good wrestling is.

That's you. That's not everyone. There were probably twice as many WWE fans that didn't know Ric as oppose to who did know.

No, no there was not. You are just being ridiculous. I was 6 years old and knew who he was. Most wrestling fans knew the name of Ric Flair.

Despite WWE realizing this, they still went ahead and pushed him to the main event.

No, they pushed him to the main-event because Hogan vs. Flair had been a dream match for years in the wrestling business. The WWE just never pulled the trigger.

When you throw away Hogan vs. Flair on a random house show, and then never go anywhere else with it; that tends to happen.

I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense, especially not in the context of your previous comment.

That still doesn't mean that everyone knew who he was. What are you not getting in that?

It's the part where you're comparing guys who were very well known because they had been seen by millions of people, to a guy who is brand new to a very large percentage of the WWE audience.

In other words, I don't get why you're trying to compare Ric fucking Flair and Chris Jericho to a guy who has had very limited exposure in the United States.

I know you're not dense, so what's so hard to understand that just because views are even in count that doesn't mean their equal in the people who watch the products.

You didn't watch much wrestling in the 90s, did you?

You're just not getting the picture here. This is the exact same thing that they did with Jericho. Practically identical, and it worked out for Jericho so why can't it work for Finn Balor?

I'm not talking about Balor. This isn't a discussion about Balor.

What are you not getting here?

Considering WWE chose to let Balor be drafted in the first round and save Lesnar for a throw away second round pick, I'm pretty sure comparing Balor to Lesnar isn't that bad of an idea.

So you don't understand the difference between the 6'4" 280 pound Lesnar and the 5'11" 190 pound Finn Balor? You don't understand the difference between a freak athlete and a guy who looks no different than you'd see at your local rec center?

Perhaps you ought to leave the discussion.

Especially when it's known that smaller guys usually get bigger followings due to them being more like the common fan.

This, right here, is exactly the problem with the stereotypical Internet fan.

No, American audiences DON'T want someone who looks like them. American audiences want someone who is larger than life. They want a Muhammed Ali. They want a Stone Cold or a Hulk Hogan. They want a Brock Lesnar. They want larger than life figures, superheroes in human form. THAT'S what drives audiences.

If I want to watch normal looking guys twirl around in premeditated routines in tiny tight pants, I'll just watch gymnastics. With the Summer Olympics on, it's really easy. American audiences want larger than life. Brock Lesnar was larger than life. Finn Balor is 5'11" and 190 pounds.

Now, does that mean Finn Balor will never become a star? No, obviously that's not what I'm saying. Daniel Bryan certainly showed (to my surprise, in all honesty) that a small, regular looking guy could be a superstar (though even Daniel Bryan had that crazy beard and lucked into the "Yes" chant). I'm not saying Finn Balor may not eventually become a star.

I'm saying that booking your product around the typical IWC fan is not going to broaden the fanbase. And you trying to compare Finn Balor to a guy who was a multiple time world champion and a guy who performed in front of 4-5 million fans every Monday night is simply not a good comparison.

Let me try it with another example. I assume you're a fan of the NFL

I do like football (though I prefer NCAA to the NFL), but your example was terrible. In football, the primary objective is to win. If Tom Brady is better than Drew Bledsoe, then Tom Brady gets the start, because he gives you the better chance to win, even if your merchandising had all been set up around Drew Bledsoe.

But we're talking about professional wrestling, where the point is not to win, but to draw money.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Slyfox, please also think for a moment: Who else was there to put against Seth Rollins?

Sami Zayn can also be considered fairly new to the main roster in order to get such a spot. Cesaro isn't that big of a draw. Owens is a heel. Reigns is in the "dog-house". Jericho who can play the tweener, we all know that his prime is far gone.

So, who else was there to put against Rollins in order to sell that match? The answer is nobody. The reason Balor is there, is simply because he happened to have a far better character than the other names I mentioned, simply because of the Demon persona. IN fact he's a far better superstar, when it comes to entertainment value than Cesaro and Zayn, the other two faces remaining.

Plus there's Balor Club, which will obviously make WWE lots of money in merch sales in the future, because it look awesome.

I get your point, but there wasn't anyone else either way.

 

[Navi]

I'm referring to the big picture.
Raw gets 3 million viewers every week. The WWE Network has roughly 1.5 million subscribers. And you have to assume not all subscribers watch NXT.

They could. But they certainly don't come back by not appealing to them.

Yes but where did those 1.5 million viewers come from? I'm not going to speak for the broad spectrum of fans because I don't know them, just the ones I know personally. I can tell you that more than 80% of them have stopped watching RAW and only what NXT and the network shows now.

That of course doesn't represent the whole of the network viewing audience, but I know that NXT has kept them watching professional wrestling. And a few of them have come back to RAW with the call ups of Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and others.

My point is that if you aren't a fan of the WWE, you wouldn't even know about the network to begin with. So all of the subscribers are either still watching RAW and SD or they did in the past. The WWE might have lost them on RAW but gained them back with the network subcription.

Yes, but fans who don't understand wrestling. Which is a whole other issue I thought about including, but decided to reserve for another thread in the near future.

That would be me. I'm literally the worst fan in the world. Watch for entertainment only, don't care about most of the other shit.

I buy the Network for the PPVs. But things like Total Divas, Swerved, old episodes of PPV and TV, Legends, Dinner for 3, etc. all keep me interested.

That's the reason most have it, but the other shows have been a surprise and I quite enjoy them. Especially Dinner for 3. Great show.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

In the old day, before the Internet, before the attitude era, when pro wrestlng was pro wrestlng and nobody knews how wrestling works and it became just another scripted show, a guy like finn balor wouldn't a been hotshotted into the main title picture in his debut. They would have build the guy up in told the story of his rise to the title, but now, like slyfox696 wrote in his original post, it's all about making sure that the IWC or like I like to say, the 1,5 millions subscribers to the wwe network, are happy. They really don't care about getting newer fans to watch raw or smackdown anymore. They know that they will always get those 1,5 millions no matter what and the finn bàlor push is pretty much this. To please the 1,5 millions that watch the network and it's ok but let face it, a casual fans that isn't a subscribers to the network and only take the network for the free month for a big event like summerslam or wrestlemania, don't watch nxt and might just watch raw once in a while, so for them, finn doesn't look like a main event star. I watch the last 2 raw like if I was a casual fan instead of a longtime fan and when I watch his match with reigns, he didn't look like a star and he didn't feel like he was on the same level as reigns and last weeks promo with rollins didn't help matter because rollins looked a superstar and finn looked like a midcarder and that bad.

it's all fine and good right now because summerslam brig more of a iwc crowd so even if finn looked like a midcarder agains rollins it doesn't matter because he's in the less important main event match out of the four match, but when they will go into the split brand ppv, will the non iwc crowd take to him as a top guy, that's the question, will see then.

 

[Trill Co$by]

It's the part where you're comparing guys who were very well known because they had been seen by millions of people, to a guy who is brand new to a very large percentage of the WWE audience.

In other words, I don't get why you're trying to compare Ric fucking Flair and Chris Jericho to a guy who has had very limited exposure in the United States.

If the WWE began and ended in the United States, you'd have a point. But it doesn't. Finn Balor has been seen by millions worldwide, and has proven that he can push merchandise both internationally and in the WWE. The United States isn't the center of the world, despite how much Republicans like to think it is. It's just one country in a world of many. A powerful country, sure. But there are still a lot more countries and a lot more people worldwide. And considering WWE is trying to push the WWE Network internationally, featuring an internationally known superstar is practically the only ideal thing to do.

Also, considering how the crowd's taken to Finn Balor since his name was called on that faithful Tuesday night, I'm willing to bet that you are widely in the minority of the people who don't know who he is. And in an even bigger minority of people not willing to give him a chance.

 

[BigDaddyKewl]

The WWE can afford to take a chance and give Balor the title match just like they are doing with Ziggler. We've seen The WWE and the World Heavyweight title matches sometimes be the 3rd or 4th most important match on the card. We've seen the Shield guys face off against each other time and time again and will most likely get more in the future. Plus they know that Orton vs Lesnar is going to be there top draw to sell Summerslam and attract a lot of casual fans.
I think Balor needs to win here and they can put him over as " The First Universal Champion". Then he can drop the title to a more established guy on Raw in the next few months like Reigns or Rollins.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Much of the solution to your issues can be found if they werer to stop idiotically referring to NXT as the developmental league when it is many things other than that in presentation and practice.

I agree it looks silly to continually call something a developmental minor league and then trot a guy to (literally) the front of the pack as if he were a major star who jumped from WCW.

There is a thousand and one ways to still accomplish the developmental aspects of the brand without directly referring to it as such....and if you must do so, then put a ladder in place for them to climb upon arrival.

EDIT: I see this post has turned into Sly talking about how people who the crowd cheers for should not be pushed because they are small again, and my post isn't relevant past the first paragraph of the first post....but still.

 

[Xemmy]

They could. But they certainly don't come back by not appealing to them.

They have appealed. It didn't work.
The Rock coming back repeatedly for matches.
The insane push of Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar. Celebrity guest hosts.

Appealing to the mainstream works on a one night basis. The ratings boost for one night, they have a look to see Shaq, and then they don't come back the next week because the show sucked.

NXT isn't going to remain strictly developmental at this rate. Just give it some time.

 

[ShinChan]

First of all, Balor isn't main eventing Summerslam most probably.

Next, Even if he does, I think that it was the right choice for Rollins' opponent. WWE keeps calling it New Era so why not just mix things up after the brand split?

Reigns Vs. Rollins has already been done. I would want it again. Cesaro is boring to Vince, so there's no chance for him too. Zayn could be a good one but that makes Rollins' victory almost a confirmation. Owens and Jericho are heels, Rusev is also a heel while being United States Champion. Sheamus too is a heel.

No one suits better than Balor. If Vince could find Cesaro interesting, things could have been better and different.