I'm back again, voice of reason that I clearly am.
Oh there is so, so much to choose from... where can I possibly start. This is going to be lots and lots of fun! Can't you feel it.
First of all, I have to begin by giving credit where it's due. Reddannihilation perfectly summed up TwistofRKO's mindset. I gave you rep but you deserve public recognition for this. James Toney! Ha, Freaking Ha! I liked that!
Now, lets get down to the conversation proper.
The first thing I saw was you claiming that the Chinese only began caring for the NBA once Yao got involved. Well, sure. That's gonna be a major reason but the product has to be something to capture that guy's home countries attention. I'm pretty sure there are many British guys in your sports. Guess which ones are popular... None except UFC.
In the same way I'll follow an English band or actor if they attempt to break America. I'll follow them, but if what they come out with is shit, I'll quickly lose interest. The same happened for your sports. We have no interest.
To finalize the point, just because it happened in one country, doesn't mean that your sports are the best.
Papa Grande... you've decided to get involved on the RKO side of things. What did you say? The US got just as far as England in the World Cup. You are correct sir. Hate to break it to you though but England didn't get very far. We never said that England were very good at the sport at the moment. There are things I could say on that topic but this is neither the time nor the place but saying that you are just as good as England at Soccer to back up your ability to play the sport is a bit like bragging that you lost your virginity at 55. Good for you, but others have done so much better than you.
You went on to say that your best athletes don't play soccer. Very astute of you once more but that is because it isn't popular. Our best supermodels don't do Hello magazine ads or get their tits out for lads mags. No they advertise Dolche and Armani... in store. Our best actors don't work on Soap Operas, they do Hollywood movies. Since when does the best at something do something low key. But then look at my last post. Your view of soccer players doesn't add up. We are as tall as NFL guys. We Weigh the same as NFL guys. Your guys just look bigger because of the padding. They perhaps have more bulk because they take hits. Look at our rugby guys instead. They would certainly match up in the same way as NFL Stars... if not more so. Landon Donavon is a great athlete. He is Premier League quality. That's the most famous league in the world by the way. The world is larger than the USA. He's a top athlete.
Dhays9, I have nothing bad to say about you but you do need to realise that RKO is a terrible debater and his 'confusion' of Soccer/Football, Football/Soccer was his handy get out clause of otherwise having to debate a point well made. He's talking a cocktail of nonsense and bullshit. He knows the difference very well, he's just pathetic enough to go that low.
One of my favourite RKO moments comes here... WE INVENTED FOOTBALL!
No you didn't. You took elements of Rugby, Gaelic football, Track and Soccer and the NFL was the produce. McDonald's latest burger wasn't Invented. They just took the ingredients they already had and reassembled them.
"There's a reason we dominate in every other sport." is another favourite of mine.
Which ones do you truly dominate on a Global level.
I'll help you out. NFL, Ice Hockey, Basketball and Baseball are not the right answers. Reasons. The rest of the world don't play it at the same level, if at all. Britain has now ceased to play American Football any longer professionally so your national sport is out... you know, the one your top athletes play
There is a few sports however that you are good at. First I have to name would be Track and Field. You guys are pretty good at them. Even the winter games too as you are blessed to have areas that are largely covered in snow, like Colorado or Alaska. We in the UK have Scotland... and to be honest, the snow isn't that frequent... it's more rain, sleet or hail. Great skiing conditions.
How about Golf. Yeah, you have many good guys. Namely Tiger Woods. Sure, he's a little distracted right now but his name and his record is known by even none golf fans.
Got to mention Tennis. you have had many greats over the years and whilst Europe might have the top 3 spots right now, you guys will certainly be up there again very soon. And who can really argue with the Williams sisters success either.
This is called a real debate. I am so confident in my ability to debate successfully that I'm willing to actually give you a little help in your battles. Feel free to take from my lead... but remember, no mentioning any NFL, NHL, NBA or MLB guys. No, they don't dominate on a Global Scale. Again, the world is much bigger than the USA.
You mentioned at the World cup that you fielded your 20th string athletes. Now, lets toss this idea out there. Perhaps I'm a little bit simple but I just don't get this concept. Do you really have a chart of all your athletes and you split them up into strings and you field your first string to, say, NFL and then your second string to NBA, Third string to NHL (Because you have to beat them dirty Canadians AMIRITE!?) fourth to MLB and so on and so forth until you get to your twentieth best athletes and you put them in Soccer?
"But Teacher! I want to be a Gymnast!"
"Tough Shit little Daisy, you're far to good to be a 16th stringer... you go play bowling like a good little girl"
"But bowlers have such big arms and ugly faces"
"Welcome to the USA!"
Give me a break. People decide what they want to do for themselves. Landon Donovan didn't try out for Football first, then Basketball, then Hockey, then Baseball and so on until, sucking at each one until he found he could actually excel on the soccer field. He loves soccer. Has the natural ability for it and trained hard for it. Short of movie and music stars and Barack Obama, he's quite possibly one of your most famous exports. Up there with guys like Jordan. And You can deny that all you like but his poster is in Soccer magazines the world over and he is on little kids walls. Again, the world is bigger than the USA.
fuh q said:
American's like sport with physicality, well, except for Baseball and Basketball, gotta wonder why actual rugby never caught on though, physical sport, no padding at all, large men kicking the shit out of each other, egg shaped ball.
That has got to be one of the most thought provoking posts I've seen in a while. Take out the Egg Shaped Ball thing and does that not sound like an arguement for liking MMA over Boxing? The difference. MMA did catch on. AMERICA! Invest in Rugby now! It's a cash cow waiting to happen!
Education time for you now RKO... What the world knows as Football (in an english translation) is not called Soccer. It is actually called Association Football. You can disprove Wikipedia all you want but for guys (like you) who decide to edit the website for shits and giggles there are 100 guys like me and everyone else on here helping to bury you that fix it and make it right again. Wikipedia is a very clever idea and a valuable tool and whilst I wouldn't use it in research if I had a deadly illness, I think I can trust it about sport. The first paragraph states it's true name and also, the fact that it IS the worlds most popular sport. Again (and sing along with me if you want) The world is bigger than the USA.
For the record we don't know cheese puffs as cheese puffs over here in England. We know them as Cheesy Balls. Lays are known as Walkers. Cheetos are Wotsits and overall Chips are known as Crisps. Sidewalk becomes pavement. Trash becomes rubbish and Asshole becomes ********. I also use the term 'Becomes' very loosely as, it is our language rightfully... so technically, what we say is correct. The point is just because you say something, it isn't automatically factual.
twistofrko said:
How are non-Americans supposed to give a portrait of how we view it? They can't. They haven't. Everyone is busy complaining how soccer isn't boring or something, which is NOT the topic.
And to twist that one round for you, how can you give a portrait of how we view soccer? You quite simply can't. You aren't a fan so in you say it's shit and I just proved in the point above what you saying this proves.
Americans buy more American made car per year than European or Asian made cars. There are pie charts that prove this kind of thing. There is a reason for this. American made cars are made to navigate many different terrains and to also cover long distances. This is due to the size and different climates of your county. No other country has this problem so a Volkswagen, made in Germany, built for performance in Germany and other like-climated and terrained countries just isn't going to be that popular in America. The most popular foreign cars bought in america are sports cars bought by rich college students so they can get laid or collectors editions bought by the rich man. Your main example mainly sucks because it's main foundations have mainly crumbled.
This one won my favourite comment award. This is when I decided you have serious ignorance problems
fooloftheyearRKO said:
The reason we don't win at cricket? The rest of the world evolved and plays BASEBALL. Are you joking with this post?
The reason everyone plays soccer is because all you need is a freaking round ball. Like Ghana could send us a slew of NFL players. We pick and choose our sports.
Seriously, this is funnier than Anchorman.
The Rest of the World plays baseball? Really?
To use wikipedia again, Japan has the biggest baseball circuit outside of the Americas (North and South) and it is considerably smaller than the American and Canadian leagues. In Europe, it is most prominant in Holland and Italy where it is considered a niche attraction. A bit like Madame Toussads. Australia did well though. They managed to clinch a silver medal at the 2004 Olympics. That doesn't count as global domination for you Gold Medalists. Wait until the Baseball world series features credible opposition from around the world and then you can claim that one.
How about Cricket... the game you guys supposedly evolved from.
Well, England play it. Australia. West Indies. Pakistan. Sri Lanka. South Africa. New Zealand. Zimbabwe. Scotland, Netherlands, India, Bangladesh, Bermuda, Kenya, Canada and Ireland. That whole list participated in the last Cricket World Cup in 2007. World. And as we all know. The World is bigger than the USA. And Cricket is bigger than Baseball.
All we need to play football is a round ball? Is that right? I don't need a goal then? Or enough players? So, sure, I can play a quick game with my friends without much more equipment than a ball and my jacket can be used as one goal post and my backpack can be the other. Can't you guys have little games in the park with your friends? Or do you have to wear the pads and the helmets and have the full goal posts and cheerleaders and hotdog sellers.
If you're talking professionally then a soccer team requires the correct boots, shin pads, the ball, flags, a referee, linesmen, a manager, a squad of 16 players on each side, kits (uniforms or jerseys) a up to standard soccer pitch measure and marked correctly and the goals.
But all we need is a round ball right A freaking round ball. Because round balls are so last century right?
Another gem was all soccer is is glorified Cross-Country. No. It isn't. All soccer is is the worlds most popular sport. And your opinion that people use soccer to cross train for another sport is ridiculous. Why risk yourself getting an injury to your legs if you want to play another sport. Soccer involves kicking and tackling using your feet. Metatarsals, Ankles, Knees, Calfs, Hamstrings and toes are all at tremendous risk in Soccer. If you damage any of them, you can't really play any of America's national sports. If people are playing soccer because of that reason, please, for the sake of your friends, tell them to stop because they are in danger of being as foolish as you.
Nobody here grows up pretending to be a soccer player in the back yard. Everyone wants to be Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis. Deal with it. That's how it is.
The USA has a estimated population of 310,101,000. Add another 34,226,000 to that from Canada and you're telling me you know all of those people? You might happen to know my cousin Cameron in San Fran then. He is a huge fan of David Villa, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. He plays soccer with me when I go over and he has Barcelona, Real Madrid, Spain or Portugal shirts with their names on the back. His friends, Marco, Dale and Jared were big Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard and Milito fans too last time I was there. His sister Robyn has a humongous crush on David Beckham, Thierry Henry and Landon Donovan too. They love soccer and Cameron actually wants to be a soccer player. What was your points again. My point is that you are, once again, wrong. Deal with it. That's how it is.
Michael Jordan failed at baseball because baseball has absolutely nothing to do with his ability to leap and dunk and bounce a ball. Just like Brock Lesnar can fight anyone, pounding them into submission but he didn't even get out of NFL pre season. Paris Hilton is pretty good at making sex tapes and being a socialite ditzy bimbo and looking pretty hot on occasion. She can't act or sing very well though. My business is Car Insurance... I'd be fucking awful at being a travel agent. People do what they do because they're good at it. They don't do it because they're good at something else which isn't as cool. That's not how careers work. To go back to the James Toney reference, he thought he could knock out Randy Couture. Couture took away that ability and it became immediately apparant that he had no idea what to do from his back, offering arms and legs openly with lettle defence, desperately listening to the corner men (including couture's) for on the job advice on how to defend. He lost, needless to say. The words on every MMA fans mouth were 'You Stupid, Fucking Idiot.'
It really isn't that simple to step from one role to another. Again, just because you are in top physical condition doesn't mean you are primed for anything. Arnold Schwarzenegger was Mr Universe. He was at the peak of physical conditioning. He wouldn't have been amazing in sports though.
The two largest stadiums in the world are used for Soccer. The Top ten is dominated by American football, I will grant you that but you focused earlier on the amount of money America has and can put into the game, factor in the size of your country and the popularity of the sport and your highest capacity stadium for NFL is 110,000? That's ridiculous. You should be cramming it 150,000 - 200,000 easily for the Superbowl. As for the most famous stadium in the world. The Camp Nou, Old Trafford or Wembley will come to mind quite quickly and most Americans will know of them and who plays there instantly. Can any non America tell me where the current superbowl champions the New Orleans Saints play? What is the stadium called? Anybody? I'd be very surprised.
We now go back to Baseball... when, please tell, do we see World championships in Baseball? I already proved that there is actually a cricket world cup. There have been a few of them. And when proving the world baseball championships, please remember what I always say about the world... The World is bigger than the USA.
Manchester United Vs Newcastle was a league match featuring one of the countries best teams vs a newly promoted side from a lower division. Yet Dhays9 is correct, it was packed to capacity. 76,000 for that match. Manchester United is my team. We do that every week. Even midweek. Against Chelsea, Against Barcalona, Against Wigan. It doesn't matter who we're playing, we'll fill that stadium and I'm damn proud to call it home. It's very famous too. I still can't think of any American Football stadiums though... Maybe the Rose bowl, but I only know that through Wrestling... wasn't Wrestlemania held there recently. The Most amazing American venues I can think of is MSG and the MGM. And Caeser's Palace if we can call it a venue. That's it. Nothing to do with football. More Wrestling, Boxing and Concerts. And Rmays9, he is bordering very close to racism, but it is my favourite kind. It's the pointless kind that only makes him look ridiculous. I'm enjoying it!
PAPA GRANDE is back. Lets see what he had to say!
But a lot of the time the players are just standing on the field regaining their energy anyways. It's not like they're running up the field full speed every second of the game. A whole lot of the time they're seen standing with their hands on their hips doing a whole lotta nothing.
They do run up and down in some cases. Lionel Messi, Diego Forlan, Carlos Tevez, Wayne Rooney, Fernando Torres, David Beckham, Thierry Henry, Landon Donovan. They're all workhorses. They do it for 90 minutes. Are you really going to judge them for occasionally taking a breather. As the quote you were replying to was saying, NFL guys stop every 10 seconds or so and take breathers there. Sure, I'm not expecting them to run constantly wearing all the equipment but 10 seconds? My baby cousin has just learnt to walk and he's managing stints of longer than 30 seconds and he's still developing. And after he stops, he gets back going again less than a minute later. I'm pretty sure his muscle ratio isn't quite near the standard of Terrell Owens and co. They should be able to do more than that for me.
More on Baseball from Papa:
China's a very popular baseball country. And there is a baseball championship type thing, like the world cup. It's the World Baseball Classic. While not having nearly the amount of history as the WC, it's the same process. Hell, there's a Baseball World Cup as well. All of the Americas and a great part of Asia play baseball a hell of a lot more then they play cricket.
Ah you proved it. Well done. Except... that's not quite the same process is it.
As I proved earlier. Japan's baseball circuit isn't quite as big as MLB. So you're already going in odds on favourite to win. Is there qualifying rounds? Is it actually televised globally? Who won the last one. These are questions I should know the answer to if it was a true world cup. I'm going to change my mantra a little here, I hope you don't mind. The World is bigger than the Americas and Far East Asia.
Papa also counted MJ out as being a good example for a cross sport star, instead naming Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders and Dave Winfield as better examples. What has this proved? That people can play multiple sports... well, 3 people can play multiple sports. Well played sir, I certainly didn't see that trump card coming. What do you know, J'Lo can act and sing at a similarly successful level. It really isn't unheard of. As I said earlier, Paris Hilton has crossed over multiple times.
Cracka Jack has just hit the nail on the head, fittingly, just in time to end my talk... I really had no idea how to end this when I started. You are traditionally raised to like NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL. It's what your Daddies watched when they were kids and it's what your kids will watch in the future.
Before I go, I just want to say one thing to the guys I've counter argued and disagreed with and, in one RKO formed instance, insulted due to stupidity, when you reply to this. Read it all.
I know it's long. I know it's not what you want to hear but it's not like I'm telling a hebrew to read a christian bible here. You'll get through it quicker than you think. Answer my points correctly. Don't construct my words to fit your jokes. Don't mock my opinions just because I don't agree with you. Don't just disagree with what I saw and not back it up. Read what I did. I backed everything I have said up with fact and source if necessary.
This is your chance to actually earn some respect from us. This is the dilemma. If you manage to debate reasonably, you'll have proved me wrong and will earn our respect. But if, as I expect, you can't do that... you kind of make anything you do say redundant and a total waste of your time. My time on this post will be gratified as I will have made a difference in this world... and the world is much bigger than the USA!
