Why brand-split naysayers were right, James Ellsworth a slap to intelligent fans.

[George Steele's Barber]

After the heat dies down for Ellsworth, which is already happening, he may actually get a roster spot as a serious competitor in the Cruiserweight Division. I suspect he has more athletic ability than he has shown playing his current character.

 

[wwetnafan2k15]

After the heat dies down for Ellsworth, which is already happening, he may actually get a roster spot as a serious competitor in the Cruiserweight Division. I suspect he has more athletic ability than he has shown playing his current character.

Oh God, I hope not. As if that division wasn't booked bad enough already.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Dude, calm down, we get it now.

I was calm: ).

And I for one am totally cool with your feelings.

Thank you.

However, I think you may be confusing your "intelligence" with your desires. You watch wrestling for your own specific pleasures and James Ellsworth doesn't give you pleasure like some of the other more wrestlers that you find more appealing. That's ok. I support your pride in who you are.

We watch wrestling for pleasure, as anything else in life, we seek pleasure.

James Ellsworth= not funny, not congruous, so James Ellsworth= not pleasure.

You nailed it!

How on earth do so many get pleasure from James Ellsworth? At least Gillberg was ridiculously funny as a caricature of Goldberg(I would always convulse at his entrance, especially the Rock-Gillberg-Goldberg segment).

You would rather James had thick arms like Roman Reigns, a square chin like Cena, a tight waist line Rollins, and a full sculpted chest like Orton.

No, I would rather James Ellsworth wasn't in the main events, winning ladder matches and given "contracts", or in the same ring as Edge, Taker and Orton.

That's something you should have the right to feel and no one should do anything to discourage that. When you lay in bed at night and fantasize about being a wrestler, you would rather picture yourself being mounted by a guy like Seth Rollins as opposed to James Ellsworth. Or maybe some nights when you really want a good romp you picture yourself being mounted by more of a bear type like Brawn Strowman. It's all cool dude. I just don't think you need to get all upset about Ellsworth, he doesn't take that much away from all the other guys that give you the most pleasure. And remember Wrestlemania season is right around the corner, it gets better .

Yes, I know you like to fantasize about all this, but pray do not confuse me with your own self.

Hilarious, the way you came up with that though.

Just one question, why don't you post more about the Women's Division?

You're so funny. Really really funny. *Seth Rollins' laugh*.

Isn't Seth so amazingly cute?

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Umm...

No, my friend, that's not right.

You made a lot of broad assumptions, but this one really stands out.

First off; this is because you hate James Ellsworth. You've completely validated your opinion that he shouldn't be on tv, and you won't feel justified until he's off tv. He's earned your reaction, instead of your yawns he's earned your passionate hatred. You're chasing conclusions that you feel are indicative of your status as an "intelligent" fan, but because you're reacting like a typical mark that means that you're really just a dumb-dumb like the rest of us.

Incorrect. Never did I say that James Ellsworth shouldn't be on TV or shouldn't be hired. Please read the OP correctly.

The antagonism was clearly directed at the incongruency of putting the worst possible "wrestler" in the world, stemming from God knows what depths of stupidity, in the same ring not only with AJ Styles, week in and week out, but Edge, Orton and Taker, and the Survivor Series Team.

Wouldn't have been so atrocious had it been Heath Slater, 'cause ya'know, Heath could at least have used that rub to become a solid singles midcarder, and he IMO has a far more pleasing personality and potential.

The reference to "intelligence" or "intelligent" fans has really put so many people off, wonder why is that?

You're intelligent though, and I refuse to believe you or I are "dumb like the rest" , based on whether or not we're "typical marks" and what our beliefs concerning one James Ellsworth are.

A food, music, literature critic will criticize the same because they're passionate about that, and they want better. I am criticizing Ellsworth not because I hate him or because I think he doesn't deserve a job, but because it's a simple fact that James Ellsworth never deserved to be in those segments and mainevents, and having that opinion makes me a critic
because I want better. I've suggested that anyone would have been okay in that role, someone like a Heath Slater, but that guy.

Don't imply that James was hired just because he's considered to be an abnormal novelty, and then ride a logic train that acknowledges his experience. Also; try to make your points without arguing with imaginary people, you're making the strawman fallacy that much more obvious when you refer to imaginary people.

Do you honestly think that mopping floors in Hollywood and thereby being hired as an actor is analogous with paying one's dues in the ring and thereby being hired as a wrestler?

It's not about being "hired". It's about being featured in mainevents. If by "paying his dues", any nobody, with that sort of a body, that set of in-ring skills deserves that, then Gillberg should've beaten Austin or Rock and won a contract, too. Because he "paid his dues".

You're a fucking loon dude.

Or, you failed to understand my POV, and are simply frustrated and angry?

I'd suggest you to practice mindfulness, so you'd be mindful and prevented thus before making absurd, utterly implausible and incredible statements like "you're a fucking loon", in the future.

That level of absurdity isn't nice.

 

[wwetnafan2k15]

"Wouldn't have been so atrocious had it been Heath Slater, 'cause ya'know, Heath could at least have used that rub to become a solid singles midcarder, and he IMO has a far more pleasing personality and potential"
Exactly, he is much more entertaining and creative than Ellsworth, the whole thing with James is "hahahaha, he looks stupid" and that's it.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Something else, just look at the people who have made WWE and themselves money over the years. Cm Punk, Bryan, Cena, HHH, Austin, Rock, Edge, Hogan, Warrior and yes, James Elsworth. Do you know what all these have in common. They stood out from the rest.

Yes, so did Gillberg, Viscera, Papa Shango, and so on.

I can see your POV, but suggesting that Ellsworth is OKAY merely because he "stands out" from the rest AKA Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns, and then putting him in the same list as Bryan, Punk, Cena, Edge, and saying "they all stood out"...gosh.

Do you know why Rollins and Roman aren't working as top babyfaces? Because they're vanilla. We've seen people like them come and go. Where's the charisma? Where's the personality? Where's the story?

You've a right to have your opinion, and are by all means a perceptive individual.

But calling Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins "vanilla" is the stupidest thing I've read here, in quite a while.

I won't say they're as developed of characters as Punk was. But wouldn't call them "vanilla" either. If anything, Ellsworth is Vanilla, vanilla trash.

 

[Naniwa91]

Well, it sure got a damn sight ugly in here didn't it? No pun intended, of course.

Anyway from my understanding, he's a promoter, or was one. In any case, whenever he does leave WWE, he'll have his stock raised.


I'm not all that invested in wrestling, especially since I can't watch it due to limited access (not for a lack of trying, mind you) nor have I heard of Ellsworth...


And if the WWE offer you a contract, you must be doing something right, yeah?

 

[kadroan]

The only thing I'll say about this thread is, James Ellsworth is over. Period. Scoff all you want, it's true. Do I agree with putting him in main events and having him close shows, not necessarily. Still, I find it amazing that some people seem to struggle with the most basic component of professional wrestling. If you're going to be angry at anybody, be angry at the fans that cheer and chant for Ellsworth, not "Vince and Shane" for doing what any smart business man would do.

I suggest you either get over it or stop watching Smackdown. That's as nice as I can be about it.

Yeah I'm fine with Ellsworth being used the way he's used. One thing I like about SDL is they don't mind taking risks. I'd hate it if SDL was exactly like RAW where the authority figures outshine the champion.

 

[stingray11214]

What I am about to say is probably going to unleash a lynch mob on this board. But, what I am going to say is the truth: If you are going to compare Ellsworth with any other Superstar, past or present, he is most comparable to Hornswoggle. The only difference is that Ellsworth can look others in the eye.

Let's be real here: Ellsworth is little more than a mascot. Period. Look at what he did at Survivor Series. He grabbed Stroman from UNDER the ring. Who else would do something like that? Hornswoggle. Ellsworth has had others beat the crap out of an opponent before he got the pin. Who else has done that? Hornswoggle. Who else has done some of the backstage antics that Ellsworth is doing? Hornswoggle.

Ellsworth may be something someday on the Indy scene. But, as far as WWE is concerned, he is a 6'2 version of Hornswoggle. Not even on the same comedy level as Santino, who was fantastic for what he did. If you accept Ellsworth as an upgraded Hornswoggle and nothing more, you will feel less insulted, and more of "Why?"

 

[@smarkmouth]

Finally, someone says it! Ellsworth is a travesty, and I am personally insulted! Hiring someone based on an uncommon look? That should nev...

Spoiler

Oh, um. Well, still. Zeus never beat anyone of merit. Can you imagine how insulted we'd be if any other world champion caliber athlete, like, I dunno, Triple H, lost to some jobb...

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]318cfWjbfys[/YOUTUBE]

That's different! And all you marks know it! Besides, a match is different than a segment, um, reasons. It's not like Ellsworth being involved in a segment with the Undertaker. You don't do that to a legend! Imagine, say, the Rock, rubbing shoulders with some nobo...

Spoiler

DAMMIT!

Okay, OP, I'm done busting your chops here, but I'll leave you with this. You will be critical of the product again. That's inherent in pro wrestling. You will see even more disappointing articles on the WWE network long after we've forgotten about the farce that is James Ellsworth. That's okay, you shouldn't like everything that the show does. But whether you like it or not, people are chanting Ellsworth and buying his t-shirt. If that's an insult to you, perhaps this art form isn't your medium of choice.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Ellsworth is someone that may have found himself with a cushy gig if this was WWE 8 or 9 years ago. During that time, that's when Santino Marella was in the company and became essentially the goofy, harmless class clown of WWE that nobody really took serious. WWE treats its titles far better now than it did 4 years or so ago as if Santino popped up today 10 years younger with the same gimmick, I don't see WWE giving him 2 Intercontinental, a Tag Team and United States Championship runs. I could easily see the two of them together as a comedy tag team.

I can't really compare him to Bryan because they're so different in some key ways. Bryan had a ton of athleticism and was one of the top in-ring guys in pro wrestling for the better part of a decade whereas Ellsworth has displayed no athletic or in-ring ability to speak of. He's an underdog in a sort of likeable way in that he helps heels get their comeuppance but I think that's as far as it goes. People were into Zack Ryder and demanding he be pushed circa 2011 and were elated when he won the United States Championship; however, that interest quickly died out once Ryder became champ. It's like many were rooting for him so long as he tried really hard, showed a lot of heart but ultimately came up short. That's more along the lines of what I see for Ellsworth because I honestly think there'd be a pretty big backlash if Ellsworth, of all people, somehow managed to defeat AJ friggin' Styles for the WWE World Championship.

In Bryan's case, they saw he had the ability to go along with the heart and desire, more along a Rocky Balboa type I think. In Ellsworth's case, he strikes me more as a Rudy Ruettiger type. A biopic called "Rudy" was made about the guy back in 1993 and it's basically about a small, undersized, unathletic young guy who harbored a dream of playing football at Notre Dame. He only played for 3 plays during the entire time, one of which included his only real stat: sacking the quarterback for Georgia Tech during the last home game of his senior year on November 8, 1975. Rudy had a very brief moment in the sun and he's remembered for having a ton of heart and courage that people responded to, but not a whole helluva lot of ability. Nobody genuinely expected Rudy to be one of the all time great football players or athletes, but they liked that he was getting a bit of an opportunity and were glad that he has a few minor contributions to add. I think that Ellsworth is someone who strikes me as very much a Rudy in that he's had a few bright spots already but I don't think anybody really is expecting him to, or really even wants him to be, a top star.

Ellsworth is over right now, fans get a kick out of his shenanigans and WWE might as well milk that for all they can because I think it's just a matter of time before the novelty wears off.

Basically he IS the new Zack Gowan/Santino/123 Kid/Savio Vega/Barry Horrowitz.

Every generation has had one of these guys who comes "from nowhere" gets used as part comedy part serious and who the fans can get behind. Once they get over this initial push he won't be top of the card again, but it helps establish him and the idea that you can, through hard work become a WWE Superstar.

WWE has a bit of an issue these days... their recruiting has gone from "reality shows" and models to basically hiring everyone who has a solid rep in the business outside WWE. That well is quickly drying up and they've learned the hard way that hiring models isn't going to cut it and they're quickly running out of 3rd and 4th or even 2nd generation stars they can fall back on.

They have to start seeding the idea that the kids who are now 15-18 can be a WWE superstar if they work hard enough and they go through the Performance Centre. Bryan was a good advert for being a 15 year veteran or looking like your dad, you can still make it... he isn't the guy who is gonna inspire kids to do it. Most of those kids are not gonna be NFL stars/College sports stars etc... and many are going to have issues like Ellsworth's disability. WWE has long focused on look above talent but that won't work if they're going to keep their business flourishing. In a post PED world, the talents available to them are going to be smaller, have different looks to what they're used to and they're not going to all be models.

Let's get the ugly part out of the way... People howled at how JR was treated over his Bell's Palsy, but Ellsworth's congenital disability (yes it is one) is being used in a more positive way... No Chin Music etc could be seen as taking the piss but it isn't being used that way... there's no accident like Brutus or illness like JR they can point to, he was born that way - as were his parents... they're using it as part of what makes him James Ellsworth and what makes him unique, that is sending a message... that even kids with what used to be called deformities can become WWE superstars and beat the World Champ.

He might be there because of that and cos he fills a "quota", since they released Hornswoggle they haven't had a disabled person prominently featured on their show (yes Dwarfism counts!) and now in a small way they do.

I am sure before long he'll be the comedy jobber to the stars, but at worst he gets to be where someone like Tito Santana or Hillbilly Jim ended up - a fun babyface the kids can look up to and the demographic who were born a little different. It's just as valuable to WWE as having Darren Young and Pat Patterson still around.

Now if they're smart, they put him into the Wyatts... let him build a character as part of that group... he'll still take some losses but he could have a good career in that faction...

At the end of the day leave the guy alone, he's on merit, relatively late in his life, made it to "the dance" based on his talent, his uniqueness and connection with the fans... That can all go tomorrow for him, but THAT is gonna inspire people to be a WWE Superstar/wrestler... not Roman/Randy/Rock's "daddy did it" or Brock's "Handed on a plate through college" route... It's also telling people you DON'T have to be the main event/world champ to be taken a bit seriously... look at Goldust and how long he's done it... Whose to say Ellsworth couldn't still be around in 20 years time? You really never know!

 

[Dagger Dias]

On November 10th 2016 at 5:20 AM Central Time, the very same person who started this thread, started another thread that bashed the return of the Brand Extension. That lengthy rant ended with this paragraph:

I for one, have stopped watching. I really enjoyed the Styles-Reigns matches. And AJ Styles. Until Ellsworth happened.

If you really hate Ellsworth as much as you say you do, then why did you start watching again, less than 2 weeks after you claimed you had stopped watching? Just follow your own advice and go do something else. Like others have said, Ellsworth is not going anywhere until people stop buying his shirts and stop reacting to him. He won't become World Champion. He'll be silly comedic relief that can easily be fast forwarded by those who have no desire to watch him. When Ellsworth is disregarded, Smackdown is still by far the better brand, and the main roster is still better now than it was a year ago due to the brand split. Other than some silliness from Ellsworth, Smackdown is as good as ever. The hate from the opening post is a bit concerning. Seriously. Do something else like you legitimately told us you were going to do, or ignore the guy. For example.... I happen to dislike Nikki Bella, but I fast forward past anything she does, and am thus able to enjoy the show.

 

[ztwhite]

WWE is a company and the number one goal of every company is to make money. But the WWE isn't making the majority of its money by doing house shows in Topeka, Kansas or even selling out Chicago, Illinois.

A gas station makes its money on all the little products it sells in the convenience store -- candy, pop, cigarettes (to some extent), etc... Gas brings in zero money for a station. But it's the gas that brings people in the door.

The WWE is much the same. It makes very little money on the actual performance. It's the t-shirts, foam fingers, wrist bands, etc...

A few weeks ago, James Ellsworth had the hottest selling shirt on WWE.com. It's why John Cena drops a different Fruity Pebbles collaboration every six months. It's why when you attend a WWE event in person, there are merchandise trucks in the parking lot, near the entrances, and around every corner and in every concourse of the arena or stadium.

Obviously, the commercials that run during Raw and Smackdown account for a large portion, as well, but they'll sell out and air whether James Ellsworth or John Cena is main eventing the show.

Ellsworth -- like him, or not -- is making money for the entire locker room, not just himself. When Timmy or Suzie spend money on his t-shirt, every other superstar hopes they spend a little bit of money on one of their products, as well. On a much grander scale, it's why John Cena has not (and may never) turn heel. When he sells a t-shirt or hat -- and he sells a SHIT ton of them -- other superstars are benefiting from the rub.

The reason Ellsworth can stand in the ring with Randy Orton, A.J. Styles, Dean Ambrose and The Undertaker is because he's making them money.

It's never been about the product from a viewer perspective -- at least visually or sensitivity wise. It's always been about how much money VKM and the guys wearing spandex and boots can make.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

If you really hate Ellsworth as much as you say you do, then why did you start watching again, less than 2 weeks after you claimed you had stopped watching? Just follow your own advice and go do something else.

Whether I stopped watching or not, anyone could've created this thread and brought forth the point I did, the evidence of which can be found in these comments here which validate my point, the WWE SDL creative team have been stupid by using James Ellsworth of all people, and most of you here don't seem to get that point, and say the same thing, "Don't watch, skip that segment, Ellsworth is just a comedy act they won't make him world champion". Here's the link to those comments:-
****ADVERTISEMENT REMOVED****

I think I'm ALWAYS right, almost always, but the IWC is so lost in the WWE bubble, the ones here, that they'll refuse to see that POINT, they'll never seem to grasp even the semblance of it, and instead go about proclaiming something entirely irrelevant, such as "Ellsworth won't be world champ. Relax" or make utterly absurd and implausible ad hominem statements "you're a fucking loon" (LOL) .

Like others have said, Ellsworth is not going anywhere until people stop buying his shirts and stop reacting to him. He won't become World Champion. He'll be silly comedic relief that can easily be fast forwarded by those who have no desire to watch him. When Ellsworth is disregarded, Smackdown is still by far the better brand, and the main roster is still better now than it was a year ago due to the brand split. Other than some silliness from Ellsworth, Smackdown is as good as ever. The hate from the opening post is a bit concerning. Seriously. Do something else like you legitimately told us you were going to do, or ignore the guy. For example.... I happen to dislike Nikki Bella, but I fast forward past anything she does, and am thus able to enjoy the show.

Sure, that's a choice@2 fast forward.

I can see Smackdown can be worth watching for Orton/Bray as I seem to finally be interested in it, The tag division- more specifically American Alpha, and AJ Styles.

I suppose the better thing to do than projecting and propagating contentious views on a wrestling forum, especially concerning bums like Ellsworth, is to focus on the good things, watch what you like, skip what you don't.

All this contemplation and expression of dislike, everything I've thought of so far beyond wrestling and in wrestling, has brought up a realization:-

We must value the good, at least the concrete, conspicuous good in wrestlers instead of just going "John Cena sucks", "I hate Roman Reigns"

What James Ellsworth really does is remind me of how I loathed John Cena but right now, John Cena would've been far better on SDL in those segments instead of Ellsworth, notwithstanding the fact that John Cena, even though I'm not a huge fan of his "wrestling" style, can still be enjoyable to watch.

The way people everywhere have been conditioned to just automatically boo and loathe Roman Reigns is concerning and alarming, because IMO, he's a very good wrestler, even though at times he may seem stiff and repetitive with the clotheslines/superman punches.

While we love our AJ Styles', Seth Rollins' and Kevin Owens', we must take time to acknowledge the good in wrestlers we're conditioned to automatically hate or dislike (based on their booking, character or moveset), provided that they're GOOD, and John Cena was Good, and Roman Reigns is even better.

I've really liked his matches so it's not an issue with me. Just a thought. We need to cultivate gratitude for the good, especially in the WWE, before we realize how good what we had loathed(in my case, John Cena) were,when they were around.

 

[enviousdominous]

Incorrect. Never did I say that James Ellsworth shouldn't be on TV or shouldn't be hired. Please read the OP correctly.

Read the OP correctly? For fuck's sake; you apparently think I misread these statements:

No matter how much a few of you here may justify his presence by statements like "He has spent 15yrs, let the man live his dream", and no matter if I were to be bestowed with 50 negative reps or whatever, the fact doesn't change:-

One of the most embarrassing, pathetic decisions the WWE creative, Smackdown Live more precisely, have made as a result of the "brand split" is not only letting a (Insert all the bad adjectives in the world) nobody like James Ellsworth show up for one night, but recurringly.

That looks pretty fucking unmistakably like you'll only find your happy place if James Ellsworth is retroactively removed from the last few months of pro-wrestling history.

The antagonism was clearly directed at the incongruency of putting the worst possible "wrestler" in the world, stemming from God knows what depths of stupidity, in the same ring not only with AJ Styles, week in and week out, but Edge, Orton and Taker, and the Survivor Series Team.

Good grief; don't throw around an ostentatious psychological term like "incongruence" when in your OP you were saying "bad adjective" as opposed to "pejorative". When you've obviously cherry picked psychological terms to fluff up your sophomoric posts, you're a prime example of incongruence.

I would hardly call James Ellsworth the worst possible wrestler. He's had some hicups that can be attributed to being on the big stage for the first time, but for the most part he's playing his role as an underdog with the heart of a lion to a T.

Wouldn't have been so atrocious had it been Heath Slater, 'cause ya'know, Heath could at least have used that rub to become a solid singles midcarder, and he IMO has a far more pleasing personality and potential.

Well, so far, all I'm able to associate with your definition of atrocious is your opinion of James' look and your opinion of his right to co-exist with more popular performers. I don't think that either of those aspects qualify as atrocious.

The reference to "intelligence" or "intelligent" fans has really put so many people off, wonder why is that?

I'd look into the possibility that you haven't established enough credibility to make those kinds of assumptions.

You're intelligent though, and I refuse to believe you or I are "dumb like the rest", based on whether or not we're "typical marks" and what our beliefs concerning one James Ellsworth are.

Based on your opinion of what constitutes an intelligent fan, we're dumb.

A food, music, literature critic will criticize the same because they're passionate about that, and they want better. I am criticizing Ellsworth not because I hate him or because I think he doesn't deserve a job, but because it's a simple fact that James Ellsworth never deserved to be in those segments and mainevents, and having that opinion makes me a critic because I want better. I've suggested that anyone would have been okay in that role, someone like a Heath Slater, but that guy.

Uh huh. Cognitive dissonance is a mother-fucker.

It's not about being "hired". It's about being featured in mainevents. If by "paying his dues", any nobody, with that sort of a body, that set of in-ring skills deserves that, then Gillberg should've beaten Austin or Rock and won a contract, too. Because he "paid his dues".

Gillberg was booked as comic relief in 1998, Ellsworth is being booked as an underdog in 2016. You're grasping at straws.

Or, you failed to understand my POV, and are simply frustrated and angry?

I didn't fail to understand your POV, your train of thought went off the rails long ago. I'm not frustrated and angry, that would be redundant.

I'd suggest you to practice mindfulness, so you'd be mindful and prevented thus before making absurd, utterly implausible and incredible statements like "you're a fucking loon", in the future.

You deny that you're a loon, and yet you suggest that I practice mindfulness... so that I can be mindful... which is the least mindful way that mindfulness could be advised unto someone else. I think if I had all the sense in the world, I'd still believe that you're a loon.

or make utterly absurd and implausible ad hominem statements "you're a fucking loon" (LOL).

Ad hominem is when you determine that my entire argument can be negated based on me concluding that you're a loon, it's not when I've argued your points only to reach the conclusion that you're a loon.

That level of absurdity isn't nice.

You sound like a shitty anime dub.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Good grief; don't throw around an ostentatious psychological term like "incongruence" when in your OP you were saying "bad adjective" as opposed to "pejorative". When you've obviously cherry picked psychological terms to fluff up your sophomoric posts, you're a prime example of incongruence.

James Ellsworth in the same ring as The Undertaker, Edge, Orton, among others= Incongruent. Not based on merely his looks, but based on who he his- a trashy, unfunny jobber.

If you have to elaborate on my usage of the word "incongruence" and refuse to grasp the essence, you're a prime example of a stubborn lil child.

Funny how you say "sophomoric posts" but commit the mistake sophomores usually make, of beating semantic distinctions to death, instead of grasping the truth or essence of the statement and presenting a viewpoint in response to that understanding. Take some lessons in logic.

I would hardly call James Ellsworth the worst possible wrestler. He's had some hicups that can be attributed to being on the big stage for the first time, but for the most part he's playing his role as an underdog with the heart of a lion to a T.

He's an awful wrestler.

Well, so far, all I'm able to associate with your definition of atrocious is your opinion of James' look and your opinion of his right to co-exist with more popular performers. I don't think that either of those aspects qualify as atrocious.

Good for you.

Gillberg was booked as comic relief in 1998, Ellsworth is being booked as an underdog in 2016. You're grasping at straws.

Yes, and that underdog is a bad wrestler, looks like trash, and isn't funny.

Gillberg was at least funny.

I didn't fail to understand your POV, your train of thought went off the rails long ago. I'm not frustrated and angry, that would be redundant.

I don't think so.

You deny that you're a loon, and yet you suggest that I practice mindfulness... so that I can be mindful... which is the least mindful way that mindfulness could be advised unto someone else.

I didn't "deny" or "affirm" anything.

You're an angry nobody on the internet telling me "you're a fucking loon" based on a wrestling thread where I've stated a few opinions. You're a master of the Ad Hominem fallacy.

Talk to me when you get an MD in Psychiatry, Neuroscience or an MS in clinical psychology. Until then, you're an angry, incoherent, illogical bum on the internet telling a rational, sane and otherwise amiable person that they're a "loon".

I think if I had all the sense in the world, I'd still believe that you're a loon.

And your belief really affects my reality.

I'd think your shrink isn't very good, the pills aren't working, and overall, you're in a very bad place if you have to be so unreasonable as to have such erroneous beliefs, for strangers on the web, with such little evidence too.

Get well soon.

You sound like a shitty anime dub.

You sound like a stubborn, absurd, angry person in need of therapy or prayer and need to work on the nine functions of the Neocortex, compassion and empathy in particular. Try Yoga or mindfulness, because the medication has failed you, evidently.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Whoever that thought it was a great idea to let this guy be in the same ring as Edge, Randy Orton and Taker, is the biggest idiot in the world.

You do know that wrestling entertainment has history of making comic relief characters, do you? These are not guys who are great in ring and give you 5 star matches but guys who entertain. Just look at Survivor Series. He was main event and his role is to comedy take down one of biggest guys on roster. And he did it perfectly. That is why you need guys like Elsworth, for spots like that where you dont need to have Orton hit 3 RKOs to take down Strowman but to keep that for some other time its OK for Elsworth to do his comedy thing just for entertainment.

Only thing I dont agree is him having 3-0 at AJ Styles. One time is OK, three is just overkill so that could be booked better. Other then that its OK to have him there even in mainevents.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think I'm ALWAYS right, almost always, but the IWC is so lost in the WWE bubble, the ones here, that they'll refuse to see that POINT, they'll never seem to grasp even the semblance of it, and instead go about proclaiming something entirely irrelevant, such as "Ellsworth won't be world champ. Relax" or make utterly absurd and implausible ad hominem statements "you're a fucking loon" (LOL) .

You think you're always right and that's the problem. As much as you try to set yourself apart from the internet wrestling community, all you do is further cement yourself with statements like that. So many smart fans feel that they're always right, that they have some sort of particular insight that everyone else is foolish for not acknowledging and listening to. It's just good old fashioned, hubristic armchair booking. We're all guilty of it at times, especially when we see something happening that sticks in our gut but that doesn't automatically mean that it's the "wrong" decision for WWE to make.

For instance, I'm not a fan of Goldberg. Never was and probably never will be because, to me, he's an overrated, untalented hack who became a huge deal because of some damn good hype from WCW. I have no interest in seeing him in another match against Brock Lesnar or anyone really but that's just me and my opinion. It's one that obviously isn't shared by a majority of fans as they want to see him do his thing and they're willing to pay for it. It's the same thing with James Ellsworth right now; while I'm getting over the novelty of Ellsworth, I'm obviously a minority as lots of people are buying Ellsworth merchandise and they simply enjoy seeing him out there doing what he's doing. Whether I personally like them or not, Goldberg & Ellsworth are making money for WWE right now and that's ultimately the name of the game for any business. While it's become a cliché due to the Authority, a wrestling company, like any other company, is going to ultimately do whatever those who ultimately run it thinks is best for business. Sometimes they'll get it right, sometimes they'll get it wrong; that's how it is in every situation because it's not like it's an exact science. If it was, then there'd never be a mistake; they could always come up with who should be pushed & in what capacity, what the storyline should be & how fans would react.

It's all but impossible to find someone who likes everything that's going on in any wrestling promotion, that's just part of the nature of the wrestling business, entertainment or even life itself. It's just that when you consider that WWE is making more money than it ever has at any point in its history then, despite the grief we all give Vince for some of the creative decisions he makes, he's obviously doing something right and as much as it might hurt the already delicate ego of many an internet smark, he might actually know a whole lot more about the business than we do.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

You think you're always right and that's the problem. As much as you try to set yourself apart from the internet wrestling community, all you do is further cement yourself with statements like that. So many smart fans feel that they're always right, that they have some sort of particular insight that everyone else is foolish for not acknowledging and listening to. It's just good old fashioned, hubristic armchair booking. We're all guilty of it at times, especially when we see something happening that sticks in our gut but that doesn't automatically mean that it's the "wrong" decision for WWE to make.

I have already privately apologized to two individuals, for inadvertently having caused offense, and admitted that the OP wasn't very good, and that the point I had intended to make was completely overshadowed by the title and the OP.

I just happened to realize that at the time when I created the thread I was in a dissatisfied, angry state and that I shouldn't have crafted and titled it the way I did, with the palpable hate and all. And the reference to "intelligence" was completely redundant and out of context, I dumbly admit.

It's not even hate actually (Why would I hate, a stranger, a jobber, someone totally insignificant, for what!?) so much as just DISSATISFACTION that I felt as a wrestling fan.

I've found that what I said was essentially the same thing Booker T did, and numerous comments in every article about Booker's remarks on the web, seem to echo my sentiment. But yes, about 30-40% of the fans seemed to be revulsed by him and his "feelings" that "Ellsworth ought to be sent back to the Indies". Shockingly, at least 50% (if not more) of the comments from those various articles are exactly what I tried to convey in this thread.

My bad though that I crafted the OP the way I did.

For instance, I'm not a fan of Goldberg. Never was and probably never will be because, to me, he's an overrated, untalented hack who became a huge deal because of some damn good hype from WCW. I have no interest in seeing him in another match against Brock Lesnar or anyone really but that's just me and my opinion. It's one that obviously isn't shared by a majority of fans as they want to see him do his thing and they're willing to pay for it. It's the same thing with James Ellsworth right now; while I'm getting over the novelty of Ellsworth, I'm obviously a minority as lots of people are buying Ellsworth merchandise and they simply enjoy seeing him out there doing what he's doing. Whether I personally like them or not, Goldberg & Ellsworth are making money for WWE right now and that's ultimately the name of the game for any business.

I feel almost the same for Goldberg, but indifference really. Like a sort of a YAWN, as goldberg in 2016 is really as awful as it gets, and he wasn't a very good wrestler or passionate about the wrestling business to begin with. I respect and love people like HHH, Sting, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker and Kurt Angle. Lesnar and Goldberg will never be included in that list.

I agree they need to make money.

But like one guy mentioned in the comments section, "AJ Styles' most memorable act as champion is now the stuff he did with Ellsworth", and it sort of resonated with me. Just around September, I was so excited for Styles, so invested, that I was utterly thrilled at John Cena interrupting Styles and declaring "16 time champ is here" (I'm a long-time Cena hater), and even enjoyed Ambrose. It was all amazing.

In two months, they've literally screwed both Styles and Ambrose for lack of anything better for their program, and the Ellsworth thing. I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Sure, Ellsworth sold those Tshirts and brought in money.

It's all but impossible to find someone who likes everything that's going on in any wrestling promotion, that's just part of the nature of the wrestling business, entertainment or even life itself. It's just that when you consider that WWE is making more money than it ever has at any point in its history then, despite the grief we all give Vince for some of the creative decisions he makes, he's obviously doing something right and as much as it might hurt the already delicate ego of many an internet smark, he might actually know a whole lot more about the business than we do.

Vince has made millions(billions?) of dollars. He's clearly adept at doing things "right" and is smarter than all of us here combined, including me and you.

Pushing/booking Ellsworth like that in an overkill fashion, is certainly not one of those right things, it's short-term thinking, it got them money, but it'll affect the ratings and viewers, if it already hasn't. This comes to mind- the Mark Madden argument "The marks will watch regardless, out of habit. But less people watch wrestling now than they did before. ")

God they've been doing the Ellsworth shit for like 8 consistent weeks now, or 10? I'd have never created this thread had the post-SS Smackdown featured something fresh, something involving Styles, Cena, Orton, Ambrose. Anything but that Ellsworth thing, man.

It hurts to know how I was so invested in Styles, right from his debut upto September(He had such a momentum as this heel champ), I loved for the first time Dean Ambrose and his angry Joker-esque "gimme my title back, you stole it from me" promo, and the one where he practically impeached and decimated John Cena as a "lazy parttimer". I, a Dean Ambrose detractor for the first time LOVED that promo.

Two months later, it has come to this. The stupid Ellsworth thing.

 

[ShinChan]

I want to add more from my point of view.

You don't like Ellsworth? Right? You think that he doesn't deserve to be in the same ring which has The Undertaker, Edge etc? Right?

The thing is that in WWE or any other promotion too, the push or exposure isn't according to the deserving thing.

Like I think that Roman Reigns didn't deserve to win Royal Rumble so early in his career. And he didn't deserve to main event two consecutive Wrestlemanias yet. A feat that CM Punk couldn't even achieve once. Reigns did it twice. I have hated, loved, liked & disliked Reigns at various points.

What I mean to say is that if you don't like someone, just skip his presence unless and until your favorite is in it. Like I totally ignored Reigns Vs. Triple H. But watched Reigns Vs. AJ Styles I & II.

Not everything in this business is going to be liked by you. Sometimes, you are going to have a popular opinion and sometimes an unpopular opinion. Opinions vary, buddy.

In nutshell, just skip whatever you hate/dislike.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I want to add more from my point of view.

You don't like Ellsworth? Right? You think that he doesn't deserve to be in the same ring which has The Undertaker, Edge etc? Right?

The thing is that in WWE or any other promotion too, the push or exposure isn't according to the deserving thing.

Like I think that Roman Reigns didn't deserve to win Royal Rumble so early in his career. And he didn't deserve to main event two consecutive Wrestlemanias yet. A feat that CM Punk couldn't even achieve once. Reigns did it twice. I have hated, loved, liked & disliked Reigns at various points.

What I mean to say is that if you don't like someone, just skip his presence unless and until your favorite is in it. Like I totally ignored Reigns Vs. Triple H. But watched Reigns Vs. AJ Styles I & II.

Not everything in this business is going to be liked by you. Sometimes, you are going to have a popular opinion and sometimes an unpopular opinion. Opinions vary, buddy.

In nutshell, just skip whatever you hate/dislike.

I agree.

It's just that this wouldn't have happened had they booked the AJ Styles-Dean Ambrose program better. I was honestly excited about SDL in August and September, excited for Styles, and even began to like Dean Ambrose and finally connected with him for the first time.

 

[ShinChan]

I agree.

It's just that this wouldn't have happened had they booked the AJ Styles-Dean Ambrose program better. I was honestly excited about SDL in August and September, excited for Styles, and even began to like Dean Ambrose and finally connected with him for the first time.

Dean Ambrose has been damn good since losing the title. The fact that his counterpart in this feud is AJ Styles, is just an icing on the cake. I am still more interested in Smackdown Live.

And yeah, I am hoping that Styles eventually squashes Ellsworth and also retains against Ambrose at TLC to end this feud for once and all.

A poster here aptly described Smackdown Live. They do more with less. Just look at the Women’s Division. You have two feuds in Carmella Vs. Nikki Bella and Alexa Bliss Vs. Becky Lynch. Two feuds in a division of 6 active wrestlers is good. And it's not like that either feud is bad. That alone proves that Smackdown Live is better.

 

[L@RISANO]

It seems that the OP has totally missed the point that James Ellsworth is merely a plot device in the World title feud involving AJ Styles and Dean Ambrose.

Having Ellsworth in the storyline has saved the fans from watching Styles vs Ambrose week after week to the point that the actual PPV match ends up mattering very little because it just ends up being a repeat of what came before(See Reigns vs Rusev & Owens vs Rollins on RAW).

 

[enviousdominous]

James Ellsworth in the same ring as The Undertaker, Edge, Orton, among others= Incongruent. Not based on merely his looks, but based on who he his- a trashy, unfunny jobber.

Look, buddy; I don't know what you think incongruence is, but James Ellsworth hasn't been claiming to be the next Brock Lesnar. His character is downright humble, which is likely why he's so endearing. If he can take the bumps, entertain the crowd and put butts in seats, then he's not an example of incongruence.

If you have to elaborate on my usage of the word "incongruence" and refuse to grasp the essence, you're a prime example of a stubborn lil child.

I'm being stubborn!? You're claiming that I've misunderstood you based on how I haven't grasped a non-existent essence as it relates to a perfectly definable psychological term. This isn't about James Ellsworth anymore, you're only pushing back to be egotistically territorial.

Funny how you say "sophomoric posts" but commit the mistake sophomores usually make, of beating semantic distinctions to death, instead of grasping the truth or essence of the statement and presenting a viewpoint in response to that understanding. Take some lessons in logic.

Dipshit; if you use a term incorrectly in a manner that betrays your intended point, I'll make that clear. The fact that I point out your idiocy doesn't mean that I'm harping on semantics, it means that you're not as good as you think you are.

He's an awful wrestler.

That could have been your original post, and it would have explained just as much.

Good for you.

Indeed; good for you as well, you're a little smarter now.

Yes, and that underdog is a bad wrestler, looks like trash, and isn't funny.

Then you concede that your comparison was flawed.

Gillberg was at least funny.

Not nearly as funny the PM you sent me.

I don't think so.

Not a valid response, but somehow more coherent than anything else you've shared.

I didn't "deny" or "affirm" anything.

Loon.

You're an angry nobody on the internet telling me "you're a fucking loon" based on a wrestling thread where I've stated a few opinions. You're a master of the Ad Hominem fallacy.

Dipshit; I've argued those opinions with points of my own. Recognizing you as a loon is a means of substantiating my point that you lack the credibility to claim to be an intelligent fan.

Talk to me when you get an MD in Psychiatry, Neuroscience or an MS in clinical psychology. Until then, you're an angry, incoherent, illogical bum on the internet telling a rational, sane and otherwise amiable person that they're a "loon".

No shit!? My point is that of an angry, incoherent, illogical bum based on your blind assumption that I don't have a collegiate degree in psychology. When you learn what ad hominem means, let me know.

And your belief really affects my reality.

My belief obviously affects your reality, yes.

I'd think your shrink isn't very good, the pills aren't working, and overall, you're in a very bad place if you have to be so unreasonable as to have such erroneous beliefs, for strangers on the web, with such little evidence too.

You were just ridiculing me for what you imagine is my lack of a higher education. That belief is erroneous because it doesn't directly argue my point regarding your lack of an understanding of some first-year psychological terms. My evidence is pretty fucking solid based on your backward logic, you're a loon.

Get well soon.

Stop being a loon.

You sound like a stubborn, absurd, angry person in need of therapy or prayer and need to work on the nine functions of the Neocortex, compassion and empathy in particular. Try Yoga or mindfulness, because the medication has failed you, evidently.

You sound like a loon. Try applying your energy toward something other than James Ellsworth.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

Ellsworth is another symptom of the post-modern wrestling fan. Fans distrust the ideology put forth by WWE that wrestlers should be these larger than life characters, these perfect God-like adonises.

Who doesn't know someone who looks like James Ellsworth? I can think of a dozen scrawny dudes with bad hair and a regrettable band tattoo they got in their early 20s. I myself have a crappy tattoo on my wrist. Ellsworth has more in common with the average wrestling fan than say the walking hair conditioner commercial that is Roman Regins.

The challenge with Ellsworth is where does this ideological rejection lead us? Ellsworth has a lot in common with Daniel Bryan. Fans fell in love with the underdog that is Bryan, the difference is that Danielson is in the same conversation as wrestling greats like Bret or Shawn. Bryan is a wrestling God that looked like a common man.

From what we can tell, Ellsworth is not. WWE could have booked Bryan to defeat anyone in the company, they just chose not to then his health chose for them. Ellsworth can't wrestle a broom and sell a WrestleMania.

I think the whole thing is interesting. I don't want him off TV as bad as others, but I see the problem that his popularity presents. Where's the payoff?

It's interesting that other people who got themselves as over as Ellsworth (Ryder and Sandow) were summarily buried. Those to this day exist as the only two true burials of the modern era. Anyone else is hyperbole.

Ryder had the look WWE wants (tall and ripped) Sandow only had the height. James Ellsworth is the exact opposite of that. Maybe that makes some people jealous? How many of us as kids (I bet a lot of us today) drift off into fantasy about being in wreslting, particularly WWE. Ellsworth is doing it and maybe that's hurting some feelings a bit there? Right in the childhood?

Either way, Ellsworth is bringing a lot of joy to people but he presents a problem that will eventually need to be addressed. There's no grand payoff, he'll never ascend to the throne of WWE on his own. Does that matter? We've long established not everyone needs to reach the top. I think he's played his role well, should never hold a singles title (tag is fine) and will likely continue his role as an adult friendly Hornswoggle for years to come.