Who needed to leave raw in the trade but didn't

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

By the way it's "immature." Thought you would know that since you claim to be so much wiser than I am.

Can you see me right now? So I don't want to hear that Shelton Benjamin has more talent than you can ever dream of happening. I had a dream where I beat Benjamin which pretty much happens in 90% of his matches.

HHH has used backstage politics but who hasn't. HBK, Hogan, Flair, and all the greats have done it. You can whine and complain all you want but HHH will stay in the WWE until he retires and have a hand in taking over the company so you're just going to have to live with it.

Yes, you beating Shelton would ONLY happen in your dreams.

Like I've said before, there's a difference between politics and booking. In the NWA in the 80's Flair, Ole Anderson, Dusty Rhodes, and Kevin Sullivan all did booking for NWA/JCP at one point or another. Yet, none of them booked themselves to run roughshod over the entire roster... or over anyone for that matter.

Dusty didn't "rule" JCP like HHH does the WWE. Sullivan and Anderson never even booked themselves as champions. Sullivan was a part of 'The Varsity Club', and only Mike Rotundo was a champion in that group - World Television Champion (Rick Steiner and Eddie Gilbert were in the UWF, but Rick didn't do anything in the NWA until Scott joined). And Ole Anderson had only been National Tag-Team Champion - a predecessor to the United States Tag-Team Title (when he could've booked himself to be World Tag-Team Champion instead) with Thunderbolt Patterson.... and that was BEFORE the 4-Horsemen, in which Ole never won any gold (it was when Windham replaced Ole that they had: Ric Flair - World Heavyweight Champion; Barry Windham - United States Heavyweight Champion; and Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard - World Tag-Team Champions).

And as I've also stated before, Ric Flair was World Heavyweight Champion NOT because he booked HIMSELF as such, but a 9-member board (all non-wrestlers, one of which happend to be, at one time, Vince Sr. who ran the WWWF) all voted on who the World Heayweight Champion was.

And had you grew up in the 80's you would see that Flair MADE other wrestlers. Unlike HHH who just squashes everyone for his own ego.

Flair made everyone he fought look like a threat, and often crawled away with his belt by the skin of his teeth - with or without Horsemen help. And when he lost, it made the person who beat him look like (to take a quote from Rocky III about Apollo Creed) $9million bucks.

Flair made legends and superstars out of:

Sting
Lex Luger
Dusty Rhodes
Magnum T.A.
Nikita Koloff
Roadwarrior Hawk
Ricky Steamboat
Terry Funk
Great Muta
Ricky Morton
Kerry Von Erich
Ronnie Garvin
Scott Steiner
Barry Windham
Rick Rude (um... he was in the NWA even before his tenure in WCW)
Roddy Piper

The list goes on........

Now tell me, who has Cripple-H helped make or elevate? I'll answer that for you......... NOBODY. So THAT is why I say draft him or get him away from the other talent and the booking.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Yes, you beating Shelton would ONLY happen in your dreams.

Like I've said before, there's a difference between politics and booking. In the NWA in the 80's Flair, Ole Anderson, Dusty Rhodes, and Kevin Sullivan all did booking for NWA/JCP at one point or another. Yet, none of them booked themselves to run roughshod over the entire roster... or over anyone for that matter.

Dusty didn't "rule" JCP like HHH does the WWE. Sullivan and Anderson never even booked themselves as champions. Sullivan was a part of 'The Varsity Club', and only Mike Rotundo was a champion in that group - World Television Champion (Rick Steiner and Eddie Gilbert were in the UWF, but Rick didn't do anything in the NWA until Scott joined). And Ole Anderson had only been National Tag-Team Champion - a predecessor to the United States Tag-Team Title (when he could've booked himself to be World Tag-Team Champion instead) with Thunderbolt Patterson.... and that was BEFORE the 4-Horsemen, in which Ole never won any gold (it was when Windahm replaced Ole that they had: Ric Flair - World Heavyweight Champion; Barry Windham - United States Heavyweight Champion; and Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard - World Tag-Team Champions).

And as I've also stated before, Ric Flair was World Heavyweight Champion NOT because he booked HIMSELF as such, but a 9-member board (all non-wrestlers, one of which happend to be, at one time, Vince Sr. who ran the WWWF) all voted on who the World Champion was.

And had you grew up in the 80's you would see that Flair MADE other wrestlers. Unlike HHH who just squashes everyone for his own ego.

Flair made everyone he fought look like a threat, and often crawled away with his belt by the skin of his teeth - with or without Horsemen help.

Flair made legends and superstars out of:

Sting
Lex Luger
Dusty Rhodes
Magnum T.A.
Nikita Koloff
Roadwarrior Hawk
Ricky Steamboat
Terry Funk
Great Muta
Ricky Morton
Kerry Von Erich
Ronnie Garvin
Scott Steiner
Barry Windham
Rick Rude (um... he was in the NWA even before his tenure in WCW)
Roddy Piper

The list goes on........

Now tell me, who has Cripple-H helped make or elevate? I'll answer that for you......... NOBODY. So THAT is why I say draft him or get him away from the other talent and the booking.

He helped elevate and make Batista. If he didn't then why did he put Batsta over three straight PPV's. HHH lost to Benoit three straight PPV's and helped establish Benoit as a credible champion. Where would Batista be if he wasn't around HHH? Probably released by now.

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

He helped elevate and make Batista. If he didn't then why did he put Batsta over three straight PPV's. HHH lost to Benoit three straight PPV's and helped establish Benoit as a credible champion. Where would Batista be if he wasn't around HHH? Probably released by now.

Batista sucks, always has, and always will. What has he done outside of his fued with HHH? Nothing significant.

Benoit (aka Pegasus Kid) was already an international sensation in the United States, Canada, Japan, and Mexico. He had plenty of sucsess in the NWA, AAA, ECW, New Japan, WCW, and others, and held numerous titles in each of those promotions. The guy was a superstar WORLD-WIDE long before going to the WWF. So HHH didn't do anything for him.... he was already a legend in the industry.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Batista sucks, always has, and always will. What has he done outside of his fued with HHH? Nothing significant.

Benoit (aka Pegasus Kid) was already an international sensation in the United States, Canada, Japan, and Mexico. He had plenty of sucsess in the NWA, AAA, ECW, New Japan, WCW, and others, and held numerous titles in each of those promotions. The guy was a superstar WORLD-WIDE long before going to the WWF. So HHH didn't do anything for him.... he was already a legend in the industry.

So I guess you haven't watched his matches with Undertaker and Edge because he was great in them. Batista does what he is supposed to do. He's over with the crowd, sells well, and uses his power to win matches. He doesn't need to be great on the mic because his actions in the ring are his words.

Sure Benoit was an international sensation, but did he win any world championships in the WWE? Benoit won the title because they knew what was best at that time and it seemed HHH didn't have a problem with it or he would have kept the belt.

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

So I guess you haven't watched his matches with Undertaker and Edge because he was great in them. Batista does what he is supposed to do. He's over with the crowd, sells well, and uses his power to win matches. He doesn't need to be great on the mic because his actions in the ring are his words.

Sure Benoit was an international sensation, but did he win any world championships in the WWE? Benoit won the title because they knew what was best at that time and it seemed HHH didn't have a problem with it or he would have kept the belt.

And Batista is still horrible in the ring. He got pushed is because he's HHH's buddy, like HBK. But Batista is a horrible worker.

Benoit did win the WCW World Heavyweight Title BEFORE going to the WWF. Again, HHH didn't make him anything that he wasn't already known the world over for.

And again, you continue to prove my point that HHH has not made any new stars. Go back and look at the list of people that Flair made into either superstars or even legends that I posted earlier and see how great Flair truly was.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

And Batista is still horrible in the ring. He got pushed is because he's HHH's buddy, like HBK. But Batista is a horrible worker.

Benoit did win the WCW World Heavyweight Title BEFORE going to the WWF. Again, HHH didn't make him anything that he wasn't already known the world over for.

And again, you continue to prove my point that HHH has not made any new stars. Go back and look at the list of people that Flair made into either superstars or even legends that I posted earlier and see how great Flair truly was.

Well Benoit won that champonship and forfeited it the next day when he jumped to WWE so I don't know how significant that is. He didn't lose it to anybody like he did to Randy Orton. I'll take a five month WWE reign than a one-day WCW reign because people remember the WWE one more.

Tell me how Batista is horrible in the ring since you haven't given reasons yet. I'm curious to hear. And is there anything wrong with having friends backstage? Tell me one superstar who hasn't?

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

Well Benoit won that champonship and forfeited it the next day when he jumped to WWE so I don't know how significant that is. He didn't lose it to anybody like he did to Randy Orton. I'll take a five month WWE reign than a one-day WCW reign because people remember the WWE one more.

Tell me how Batista is horrible in the ring since you haven't given reasons yet. I'm curious to hear. And is there anything wrong with having friends backstage? Tell me one superstar who hasn't?

I'm guessing you've never watch Batista in the ring.

Granted the guy isn't Ric Flair, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Dean Malenko, Great Muta, Lou Thesz, Chris Beniot, George Hackenschmidt, Bruno Sammartino, Scott Steiner (late-80's and early-90's), Kurt Angle, Frank Gotch, Buddy Rogers, Harley Race, or anyone who really could wrestle.

But being a big man is no excuse. Look at:

Big Van Vader
Lex Luger
Roadwarrior Hawk
Roadwarrior Animal
Brock Lesner
Andre the Giant (in the 70's)
Bam Bam Bigelow
One Man Gang
Mark Calloway
Sid Vicious
Dan Spivey

I mean, these were all big guys who could go in the ring. Batista's name would never legitimately be mentioned in the same sentence with these guys. Heck, even Dusty Rhodes was better in the ring.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm guessing you've never watch Batista in the ring.

Granted the guy isn't Ric Flair, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Dean Malenko, Great Muta, Lou Thesz, Chris Beniot, George Hackenschmidt, Bruno Sammartino, Scott Steiner (late-80's and early-90's), Kurt Angle, Frank Gotch, Buddy Rogers, Harley Race, or anyone who really could wrestle.

But being a big man is no excuse. Look at:

Big Van Vader
Lex Luger
Roadwarrior Hawk
Roadwarrior Animal
Brock Lesner
Andre the Giant (in the 70's)
Bam Bam Bigelow
One Man Gang
Mark Calloway
Sid Vicious
Dan Spivey

I mean, these were all big guys who could go in the ring. Batista's name would never legitimately be mentioned in the same sentence with these guys. Heck, even Dusty Rhodes was better in the ring.

All your guessing seems to be wrong these days. Of course I've watched him in the ring because how could I give you an accurate assessment of his abilities if I didn't? I know Batsta isn't the best big guy in WWE history but he is one of the best right now.

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

All your guessing seems to be wrong these days. Of course I've watched him in the ring because how could I give you an accurate assessment of his abilities if I didn't? I know Batsta isn't the best big guy in WWE history but he is one of the best right now.

And with Batista being one the WWE's "best", no wonder that company stinks right now.

For those of us who enjoy WRESTLING, we can only hope that either TNA improves quickly, or somehow NJPW or IWGP finally air on American TV.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

And with Batista being one the WWE's "best", no wonder that company stinks right now.

For those of us who enjoy WRESTLING, we can only hope that either TNA improves quickly, or somehow NJPW or IWGP finally air on American TV.

Even if NJPW or IWGP air on TV, RAW will still be the number one program no matter what. It may take TNA years to get there but I don't think it will happen.

And this assuming and guessing stuff has got to stop. You assume I don't enjoy wrestling, which I do.

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

Even if NJPW or IWGP air on TV, RAW will still be the number one program no matter what. It may take TNA years to get there but I don't think it will happen.

And this assuming and guessing stuff has got to stop. You assume I don't enjoy wrestling, which I do.

No, I enjoy WRESTLING. It's what NWA (JCP, GCW, FCW, IWA, MCW, etc...), WCW, IWGP, NJPW, AAA, AWA, WCCW, UWF, (and to an extent, the original ECW) and others were/are all about. Unlike WWF/WWE... it is, was, and seems will always be garbage (with the exception of when it was the WWWF).

At least if some Japanese wrestling got on American TV we'd finally see some WRESTLING.

As for TNA, they carry on the tradition of (sometimes) putting on solid WRESTLING action, and maybe if they could get Eric Bischoff to run it, Ted Turner to join with Dixie Carter in financing it, and Jim Crockett to book it..... Whooooooo!!!!!!!!!! No words to describe how great that would be.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

No, I enjoy WRESTLING. It's what NWA (JCP, GCW, FCW, IWA, MCW, etc...), WCW, IWGP, NJPW, AAA, AWA, WCCW, UWF, (and to an extent, the original ECW) and others were/are all about. Unlike WWF/WWE... it is, was, and seems will always be garbage (with the exception of when it was the WWWF).

At least if some Japanese wrestling got on American TV we'd finally see some WRESTLING.

As for TNA, they carry on the tradition of (sometimes) putting on solid WRESTLING action, and maybe if they could get Eric Bischoff to run it, Ted Turner to join with Dixie Carter in financing it, and Jim Crockett to book it..... Whooooooo!!!!!!!!!! No words to describe how great that would be.

The WWE was mainly about wrestling unitl the Attitude Era and that's when wrestling starting to die. I like Smackdown and ECW better because they focus more on wrestling than entertaining.

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

The WWE was mainly about wrestling unitl the Attitude Era and that's when wrestling starting to die. I like Smackdown and ECW better because they focus more on wrestling than entertaining.

Finally, we agree. I have to agree with you on all points on that one.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Finally, we agree. I have to agree with you on all points on that one.

RAW has gotten better with all the trades and the draft picks. Their midcard is beginning to look solid and their main event could use a little tweaking but HBK might come back soon so that would be a nice little change.

 

[WorldHeavyweightChampion]

RAW has gotten better with all the trades and the draft picks. Their midcard is beginning to look solid and their main event could use a little tweaking but HBK might come back soon so that would be a nice little change.

No, HBK should go to Smackdown. RAW is too big-name heavy and SD could use more names to draw attention to it (and the schedule might be lighter on HBK as well).

 

[darbare]

i think jillian shoodve gotten a fresh start on smackdown, cuz she hasnt been seen in a long time...tbk shoodve went back to smackdown, where he's needed. i dont see him winnin the u.s. title as long as bourne, kofi, mvp, show or swagger is around. he could be right up there wit ziggler right now, but nope...i also reall wanna see hbk on smackdown...thats a dream move imo...he could reignite his stuff wit jericho or undertaker... nex year he could wit edge if he isnt face...he could help out ziggler, punk and morrison...good matches, and actually get another title reign under his belt

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

No, HBK should go to Smackdown. RAW is too big-name heavy and SD could use more names to draw attention to it (and the schedule might be lighter on HBK as well).

If Jeff Hardy doesn't re-sign than I think HBK should go to Smackdown to be one of their top faces. His going to church on Tuesdays may affect that decision but if Vince wants him to do it, then most likely he would do it.