Where'd the Heels Go?

[Juntin]

There are many moments in wrestling history that are unforgettable. One in particular stands out as an indication of what I mean by the absence of heels in modern wrestling.

The date was Monday, July 6, 1998 - WCW Nitro: Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Bill Goldberg

For many months, their paths had been drawing near. Hogan, by hook and by crook, had remained World Champion whilst the phenomenon of Goldberg was gaining momentum.

When the match was created, ironically on a Nitro and not at a PPV, the world watched for free.

Much has been written since about both athletes, but that night, the atmosphere was electric.

Hogan had created genuine heat not only by presenting himself as the ultimate heel, but there were also those who genuinely wished him toppled to make way for the new blood.

Goldberg had not been beaten, Hogan would do anything to avoid losing, and the match was set.

Neither will go down in the history books as technical wrestlers but the reaction of the crowd to Goldberg's victory is something seldom heard in wrestling today. The institution of wrestling had been defeated and Goldberg stood tall.

The match could have made WCW millions and while that is a mistake, it nonetheless was a moment in wrestling history that few will forget.

In wrestling today, too many of the heels are like cartoon characters. The lack of serious depth in wrestling means that if a heel is successful, they are almost certain to turn face in order to capitalize on their skills, i.e. Randy Orton.

If we examine wrestling today, who is the No. 1 superstar that represents the heels? Who would we want to see lose? The Miz, Chris Jericho, Drew McIntyre,...all good heels, but a loss would hardly produce a moment on par with that night in 1998.

Ironically, the one superstar that would produce the required effect is super face, John Cena with the loss having to come at Wrestlemania. Unlikely, perhaps, but it would still be a huge moment.

Wrestling needs to produce a new kind of heel that is not for turning. A heel that produces heat, some of it genuine, good on the mic and of course solid wrestling ability. Not many match those criteria today who would be able to headline a Wrestlemania.

Too many of today's heels are easily beaten. And yet for a face to be successful, it needs the heel to be just as strong, maybe even stronger.

The phenomenon of Stone Cold was partly created by the role of the 'evil' Mr McMahon. The two played off each other and the results revolutionized the wrestling world.

If Cena is not going to turn heel any time soon, he at least needs to feud with someone that is a challenge.

Another round of matches with Randy Orton is unlikely, given that they are both faces, but it would need to be someone on par with Orton's standing in WWE.

The Nexus simply do not have the strength to challenge Cena effectively. Their attacks on the franchise is simply to get their foot in the door and not some sustained main event push.

Sheamus may have been a contender had it not been for his image. He is a super strong man but the pale skin, mayonnaise comments together with his recent mic work, have relegated him to a source of fun rather than fear.

Someone that we are going to hate, someone that is so strongly put over that we think him unbeatable and when he is, the one who beats him becomes a superstar.

Maybe it will take Cena to turn heel to do this, but then who is going to beat him?

 

[jjdad23]

The answer to this question rest on the shoulders of the creative team @ wwe and it is very simple CM punk has the ability to be the number 1 heel for years to come and in order for this to happen he must defeat the undertaker @ mania and defeat the streak and retire the deadman.

 

[Tyler44]

The reason why we see no good heels nowadays is because we do not have awesome faces. It is a balance. Nowadays, the big faces are guys we all hate because we are older (Cena), and the only ones we can cheer because they are edgy and something we want to see are people like Orton. So all the guys we want to cheer are heels.

The reason is because we are older, it's not as creative as it once was, no edgy characters to cheer for, and because the product has become very stale so we don't get into it at all anymore.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I don't buy that reason for no heels because there's no faces. I think the major problem with finding a good heel is that the Attitude Era killed the "cheer the good guys, boo the bad guys" norm for the WWE crowds. Why is Orton over as face when he acts like a jerk? Why is the Miz over as a face when he is one of the most self centered guys on the show?

The other problem is that a lot of the heels just flat out suck. Teddy Jr is suppose to be about flossin' his daddy's dough, but does he ever get booed? Does he get a reaction? I know Maryse does, but what about the dude in the couple? Edge is suppose to be some great mastermind, but does anyone take him serious? The Scottish guy on SD is suppose to be all vicious and stuff, but come on..


I think "good" heels are making a comeback with Sheamus, Wade Barrett and CM Punk. Sheamus has shown so much more personality that the crowd hates in his second title reign. Barrett has such a pompous aura about him that the crowds really hate while CM Punk has such a mean and dispiriting aura about him that crowds really hate.

 

[mrbooker]

The heel went with the PG era. Heels can't push the envelope, they can't run promos like they use to be able to, its not me bashing its simply the truth. Ask yourself how would a Stone Cold Steve Austin get over in todays WWE. A heel can only do so much in todays WWE and anyone who is worht a damn that can turn heel is going to get a major pop because so many of the older fans have respect for that wrestler ex. HHH. As far as having a heel that generates genuine heat I dont see it happening except the one post I saw.

CM Punk taking out the Undertaker at Mania would make him the top heel in the world for the next DECADE EASILY!

 

[Chadmw]

It's definately not the fault of the PG era as mentioned above. Seeing as in the 80's there were great heels, like Andre, King King Bundy, Randy Savage, Jake the snake. And they were all during an era that could be considered PG. So nope you PG Haters can't blame that for it.

And this thread actually look like another let's turn Cena heel thread, just very well disguised as something else. But Cena will not turn heel until the kids and teens start cheering him.

The WWE was stupid for turning Orton face, he is a naturel born heel and they must do something to make him heel again.

 

[DeathClutch]

Goldberg/Hogan HAD to happen on TV, many people consider it one of WCW's actual classics for good reason, had this happened on PPV very FEW people would have saw it, tho it happened on Nitro WCW never did the rematch that SHOULD of happened on PPV, more so starcade and built Hogan has a heel, with cheap wins to really build steem even beat Goldberg up to a pulp to make him look beatable but no, WCW messed up.

Wrestlings problem is most guys want to be the good guys and thus that are heels mostly don't do a good job at being heel, now Owen Hart for example was a perfect heel, facial expressions, heel tactics, and when the crowd died down would scream I'm not a nugget to get them back into it, so for the PG ERA to be blamed is unjust, the problem is most guys don't know how to play the heel persona properly.

 

[jack--sos]

Kurt Angle in WWE made a great heel, always got a reaction from the crowd when his music hit with the "You Suck!" chants. Nexus can't do much else to turn even more heel-ish, they have attacked John Cena and destroyed the ring, but i dont think they pulled it off very well, a true heel needs to taunt the crowd, show off what they've done and rub it in the faces of everyone else.

Miz will have a chance to turn super heel at Night of Champions if Cena wins by cashing in money in the back and taking the title away from the face of the Company. But i can see the E turning him face and cashing in on a heel

 

[Ace333]

Wade Barrett has everything to be the heel but to make him convincing he will have to beat sheamus/orton/cena/HHH/edge by himself to make it convincing that he is a good competitor

 

[Hazardous]

Are you saying that HHH in Evolution was not the perfect example of a Heel? He ran the show (hogan in WCW style) and crushed all babyfaces in his path. When someone finally did take the title from him (Benoit) it was HUGE. Same way Goldberg taking the title from Hogan was. Or Eddie taking the title from Lesnar was. We have Heels (Barrett, Punk) and we have babyfaces (Cena, Big Show) and then there is the ones in between them or "tweeners" if you will (Orton). This is the way it has been since the start of the A.E. Yes things changed when they switched to PG, but they switched for a reason. And a damn good one as well. There will always be people who bitch and complain about it, but that goes for every "Era" in wrestling. During the Attitude Era, people complained it was too graphic, and boring. Now the same is being said about the PG-Era. Well too bad. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I like the current state. We have good heels in Edge, Jericho, Punk, and Kane. Orton was never "officially" turned face you know.. It's similar to the Austin thing, where he did what he wanted, when he wanted. The fans just started cheering for him. Remember him attacking Bourne a month or so ago? Is that something a Face does? No. HHH is another one that can play a good Face, or a great Heel. I'd love to see him play the tweener role where he beats anyone and everyone. Fan's try to turn people all the time. Look at Jericho. Some nights he gets a bigger pop then Cena himself, yet they refuse to turn him Face right now, and I think that's good! For now anyway. Cena has been booed out of more arena's then any face I can remember, except maybe a young Rock anyway.. Yet have they turned him Heel? No. Again, that's good. For now. Why people say we have no good Faces, or Heels is beyond me. Maybe just sit back, watch, and enjoy. Not bitch about it. WWE is fine right now, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. How do I know this? Because Vince McMahon has been doing this a LONG long time now, and if he thought his product was suffering, he would make the right changes needed to fix it.

 

[mrbooker]

It's definately not the fault of the PG era as mentioned above. Seeing as in the 80's there were great heels, like Andre, King King Bundy, Randy Savage, Jake the snake. And they were all during an era that could be considered PG. So nope you PG Haters can't blame that for it.

And this thread actually look like another let's turn Cena heel thread, just very well disguised as something else. But Cena will not turn heel until the kids and teens start cheering him.

The WWE was stupid for turning Orton face, he is a naturel born heel and they must do something to make him heel again.

Actually yes I can blame it on THIS PG era. Let me rephrase my original statemenet the heel died with THIS ERA of wrestling which happens to now be PG.

You my friend are comparing apples and oranges when you bring the argument of the 80's of wrestling, wrestling as a whole was a completly different beast at that time it was wrestling not sports and entertainment. Wrestling was a spectical guys like, savage, roddy piper, andre, ric flair, where household names, that people knew like Wilt Chamberlan or Muhammed Ali. People took wrestling as serious as the NBA, NFL, and boxing as far as fandom goes in those times. For you to even compare the state of wrestling now to back to the glory days is just silly

So yes I can blame it on this pg era with its bookers who have the wrestlers to do it but cannot make a great heel the can generate interest within their parameters. The WWE has guys like CM Punk who is a major player I could see him being one of the darkest hated heels. And yes he is getting pushed but its on the B-show, lets face it CM Punk could be in a phenomenal angle on smackdown and aa large percentage of fans wouldnt even know about it.

The OP brought up Hogan Vs Goldberg and how nuts the arena went, right now WWE is no were near that any heel they have that can get super over will get pops like crazy due to their past history in wrestling like HHH or Randy. So my reason is going to stay its due to this era and its writers who are not even close to producing a heel vs face title face-off of that nature. The closest the WWE came of a heel that was dominating and generated genuine heat was JBL. If the WWE ever has a electrifying moment like the hogan vs goldberg it is far away from now, especially since I dont think the WWE has it in them to keep to top guys away from each other where both have stayed heel and face long enough to generate love/hate from fans. And that moment was huge because hogan seemed untouchable but everyone thought if anyone could do it goldberg can. And they never meet till that point. Off the top of my head the only people on the current roster I can think of who havent faced off that are a small possibility are HHH-CM Punk , Taker-CM Punk, or Taker-Barrett

 

[Sparky3000]

I think Cena could definitely be as big a heel as Hulk Hogan and here's why. John Cena now is wwe's equivelent to the 80's hulk hogan. He's the number 1 face, kids love him and he preaches good vs evil. This is why his heel turn was so monumental. So if John Cena turns, it'll be exactly the same.
Also, Cena's played a heel before so he'll be able to carry it off. And as he's super cena, he can also have a lengthy heel title reign. And with that, he can have someone (in a year or two) like del rio or miz that wwe want to eventually push as the leading face beat him.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

So yes I can blame it on this pg era with its bookers who have the wrestlers to do it but cannot make a great heel the can generate interest within their parameters.

The only things that are really gone from the WWE since the "PG" era started is that there isn't excessive blood, weapons, cleaner language and the divas keep their clothes on. When someone does bleed, it is a much bigger deal because we aren't seeing it every show. If someone gets his bell rang by an weapon, it is a much bigger deal because someone doesn't pull out a weapon in every match. You know what kind of people need profanity to constantly get their point across? The kind of people you can't have a decent conversation with. Now with the divas.. If you really complain about the lack of partial nudity, then you haven't discovered porn or its been a while since you last got laid.

The WWE is going back to the days where if you are a good performer, then you WILL get the crowd to respond to you.

Like I said, look at the heels on the Raw roster:

Alicia, David Otunga, Edge, Health Slater, Jimmy Uso, Jey Uso, Jillian, Justin Gabriel, Maryse, Michael Tarver, Primo, Sheamus, Skip Sheffield, Tamina, Ted DiBiase, The Miz, Wade Barrett, William Regal, Zack Ryder

How many of those people come across as guys and girls you can easily boo? We know Wade Barrett is the number on heel on Raw. Which as awesome as Wade is, it is only really by default compared to the other people.

 

[Ace333]

Cena would be an awesome heel but you can turn him heel and another superstar to back him up. Good heels always have back up.

 

[save_us_222]

The Hogan Goldberg things a pretty unique case for an example i think cos of the status of the 2 guys... i reckon CM Punks an awesome heel just now, just look at his amazing promo during the 900th Raw - CM punks one of my favourite wrestlers and even i thought he was a dick then. Triple H coming back and turning heel would also create a good heel seen as hes probably one of, if not the best heel ever. I also think Big Show works a million times better as a dominant heel.

The problem really just now is that Cena being a face splits the crowd and even if people dont like Sheamus etc. theyd still cheer him over Cena. Cena turning heel would probably solve this cos hed unite everyone in their dislike of him. At the same time the WWE makes the heels look weak to please the kids and a lot of the time the faces just come off as bullies. For example when Big Show broke all Jack Swaggers trophies and stuff on Smackdown when all Swagger was doing was bragging about them or when Jericho got speared without fail almost every week against Edge when he didn't really deserve it.

9 times out of 10 i think the heel should go into the a mach as the favourite, whereas against Cena this is never the case for example the way he kept getting up when Batista was hitting him with a chair before Mania, it just made Batista look a bit desperate and weak(as opposed to hogan who genuinely looked like the one guy who was big enough and bad enough to stop goldberg). This also applies to Punk getting beat almost every week by the big show(even when big shows injured and punk has a team)

 

[vampirek]

The heel went with the PG era. Heels can't push the envelope, they can't run promos like they use to be able to, its not me bashing its simply the truth. Ask yourself how would a Stone Cold Steve Austin get over in todays WWE. A heel can only do so much in todays WWE and anyone who is worht a damn that can turn heel is going to get a major pop because so many of the older fans have respect for that wrestler ex. HHH. As far as having a heel that generates genuine heat I dont see it happening except the one post I saw.

CM Punk taking out the Undertaker at Mania would make him the top heel in the world for the next DECADE EASILY!

Yet another ignorant fool who blames everything on PG. History lesson for you, Austin, his character, 3:16 etc was all created in a PG rated WWF. DX was too and so on, it was only after his title win the company became TV-14. So to answer your question on Austin, the same bloody way he did back in 97. Its the writing team that sucks, not the rating.

 

[mrbooker]

Yet another ignorant fool who blames everything on PG. History lesson for you, Austin, his character, 3:16 etc was all created in a PG rated WWF. DX was too and so on, it was only after his title win the company became TV-14. So to answer your question on Austin, the same bloody way he did back in 97. Its the writing team that sucks, not the rating.

you must have not been watching wrestling that long seeing as when DX was created and running promos USA told vince that they were going to get kicked of the air for their promos, its well documented, its on tons WWE DVDs you can most likely find it on youtube coming straight out of vinces mouth. and you are DEAD WRONG. Back then wwe was PG the first hour and tv-14 the second hour smart one, WWF at the timee was getting major heat and was on the news alot standing up for themselves with all the DX antics. I remember seeing Vince on the news telling people if it offends you change the channel.

And if you read the post clarifying myself I put this era of wrestling isnt that great because the writers cant cut it within the PG parameters. Sorry your argument is soft, atleast i have backed my statments up with facts... And why dont you think we havent seen austin on monday night once since the PG change, he cant be Austin within those parameters.

Everyone thinks that the non PG is about not cursing, and no chair shots and bla bla, no its about being to push the envelope FOR CERTAIN STORYLINES, people act like wrestling use to be a porno filled with middle fingers, cursing, and weapons. Majority of the show was PG but not having those constraints for certain storylines gave those particular storylines shock value.

Heels get heat for doing shocking unthinkable actions, look at the reaction Randy got when he was punting and rko'n the Mcmahon family. Im done trying to prove my point to you when you dont even know what you are talking about, the facts are the closest and most recent dominant heel the WWE has had was JBL then he turned into a announcer and had a embarrassing send off.

Cena would work as a heel but he needs to be built into a MEGA heel, and the face would have to be someone who has never faced cena before so their would be nothing to compare it to, or insight to the match up something no one has ever scene before.

 

[Tully]

The heel went with the PG era. Heels can't push the envelope, they can't run promos like they use to be able to, its not me bashing its simply the truth. Ask yourself how would a Stone Cold Steve Austin get over in todays WWE. A heel can only do so much in todays WWE and anyone who is worht a damn that can turn heel is going to get a major pop because so many of the older fans have respect for that wrestler ex. HHH. As far as having a heel that generates genuine heat I dont see it happening except the one post I saw.

CM Punk taking out the Undertaker at Mania would make him the top heel in the world for the next DECADE EASILY!

^^This is exactly right. Look what happened to Daniel Bryan when he choked a bitch on RAW. Rather than furthering any 'heel-ness', it got him suspended.

Sorry but MrBooker's right: The PG era prevents the rise of a good heel.

 

[mrbooker]

^^This is exactly right. Look what happened to Daniel Bryan when he choked a bitch on RAW. Rather than furthering any 'heel-ness', it got him suspended.

Sorry but MrBooker's right: The PG era prevents the rise of a good heel.

Thank you for seeing my EXACT point, the knock on the PG era AS FAR AS THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD is that it with holds the wrestlers from doing what a heel does, shocking heinous actions, do you really think I give two shits that you are ripping up a ring, and flipping stairs over? No, or 6 people getting the better of one man? NO... the choking with the tie had me thinking holy shit, this dude is vicious, he could choke this ring side guy to death, he is ruthless, then he is off TV. this is 2010 the days where heels can get over like in the 80's when wrestling was super popular has gone and isnt coming back.

The minute vince wanted wrestlers to act like their real life counter parts, instead of wrestling characters he changed the whole dynamic, so you want your wrestlers to act like their real life counter parts put in PG what grown man acts that way, what heel acts that way. The only heel that gets over by following this logic is CM Punk because he is straight edge and therefore simply acts like he is better then everyone else which is very believable.

 

[Hazardous]

Attitude era blah blah blah blah PG blah blah. Serious, did you not read my post at all? You must not of because I pretty much explained a lot of what you are bitching about. If you don't like it, go to TNA. Simple as that. I fail to understand the point of bitching about "There's not enough Heels" or "Cena wins too much" Or anything else that people bitch about in the PG format.You want to know what's wrong with WWE today? The fans. That's what. I don't mean all of us, I mean the one's who can't let go of the past and move on. It's over, let it go. There are plenty of heels today, so what if they aint setting people on fire, or nearly killing someone with a chair.

 

[mrbooker]

Attitude era blah blah blah blah PG blah blah. Serious, did you not read my post at all? You must not of because I pretty much explained a lot of what you are bitching about. If you don't like it, go to TNA. Simple as that. I fail to understand the point of bitching about "There's not enough Heels" or "Cena wins too much" Or anything else that people bitch about in the PG format.You want to know what's wrong with WWE today? The fans. That's what. I don't mean all of us, I mean the one's who can't let go of the past and move on. It's over, let it go. There are plenty of heels today, so what if they aint setting people on fire, or nearly killing someone with a chair.

For once in a post hop of the PG eras nuts just once, every post you come and say go watch TNA when its not even relevant to the topic at hand. Stop being a PG nut hugger and contribute to the topic of the OP or go to the spam section.

The OP brought up Where did the heels go? and brought up Hogan vs Goldberg. asked if we would ever see something as electric as that. And looking AT THE FACTS I as well as many on here are able to look at the booking, of this PG Era to explain why we are at minimum 2 years away from anything of the nature of a hogan vs goldberg face off.

WWE makes it so no heel can be dominant and generate true heat because of the parameters they have to stay in. There is no shock value, no oh my god factor the heat draws, and now in this era heels are never dominate yea they win, but are never dominate enough to be a mega heel. These are facts. In the past 5 years JBL has been the most dominate heel scary but FACT.

So maybe you should take a hint and contribute to the post and if you dont like it just like you say go watch tna, then you sir go to another post. The OP asked a question, and I came with legit answers sorry if that crushes your love for WWE, Im answering the OP's question and you are just coming here trying to be a PG era defense and gate keeper, sorry that you can't come up with a decent reason as to why WWE is no where near a hogan vs goldberg face-off and need to go on your own personal tirade that has nothing to do with the post. This post isnt about watching WWE or TNA maybe you should read the OP before you post your WWE PG ERA defense that you most likely have saved and ready to paste on any post

 

[Hazardous]

For once in a post hop of the PG eras nuts just once, every post you come and say go watch TNA when its not even relevant to the topic at hand. Stop being a PG nut hugger and contribute to the topic of the OP or go to the spam section.

I actually post in the Spam section quite a bit, nice of you to notice though. But I will also go post anywhere I like, sorry, not about to ask your permission.

The OP brought up Where did the heels go? and brought up Hogan vs Goldberg. asked if we would ever see something as electric as that. And looking AT THE FACTS I as well as many on here are able to look at the booking, of this PG Era to explain why we are at minimum 2 years away from anything of the nature of a hogan vs goldberg face off.

Okay, here's a better question. WHO CARES? Why do we NEED another Hogan/Goldberg? Why? What point does it serve at this very moment in time? Why did WCW do something like this? raitings. They were competing with the WWF at the time, what better way to draw raitings to your product then a match like that? Especially on a Monday. Why should WWE have something like that now, are they competing with someone? Are they desperate for ratings? answer to all of these, NO!

WWE makes it so no heel can be dominant and generate true heat because of the parameters they have to stay in. There is no shock value, no oh my god factor the heat draws, and now in this era heels are never dominate yea they win, but are never dominate enough to be a mega heel. These are facts. In the past 5 years JBL has been the most dominate heel scary but FACT.

Again, who cares? We have good enough heels right now. Who cares if there is some SUPER badass heel? All people bitched about when we DID have guys like HHH, and JBL running their show was "They win too much, this is boring" And now that we don't have them, people bitch that there is no super heel? jesus christ!

So maybe you should take a hint and contribute to the post and if you dont like it just like you say go watch tna, then you sir go to another post. The OP asked a question, and I came with legit answers sorry if that crushes your love for WWE, Im answering the OP's question and you are just coming here trying to be a PG era defense and gate keeper, sorry that you can't come up with a decent reason as to why WWE is no where near a hogan vs goldberg face-off and need to go on your own personal tirade that has nothing to do with the post. This post isnt about watching WWE or TNA maybe you should read the OP before you post your WWE PG ERA defense that you most likely have saved and ready to paste on any post:disappointed.

Actually I don't really give a damn how you answer it. Glad you seen that I've said that more then once, follow me around a little more, I'll show you some other things I've said more then once too. WWE doesn't need another Hogan/Goldberg. There's no need. None. Why does it matter? Is the product being marketed at you? Does Vince phone you up personally and ask you what they need? I don't think so.

 

[mrbooker]

As to answer the main part of your rant why do we need another hogan vs goldberg faceoff, the question you should be asking yourself is why not? Why in the hell as a fan I dont care if you are 4 or 40 would you not want see a match of that caliber why would you not want to see the ultimate of good vs evil, thats what foundation of wrestling was built on.

Your acting like us as fans of the WWE are asking for soemthing outrageous, of some major overhaul, the OP didnt just go on some randomn rant about there is not enough heels, he gave a great example in what wrestling is about, you sit here and want to look at WWF/E vs WCW as battle between company like a smark and not as a fan. you sit here and say

"Okay, here's a better question. WHO CARES? Why do we NEED another Hogan/Goldberg? Why? What point does it serve at this very moment in time? Why did WCW do something like this? raitings. They were competing with the WWF at the time, what better way to draw raitings to your product then a match like that? Especially on a Monday. Why should WWE have something like that now, are they competing with someone? Are they desperate for ratings? answer to all of these, NO!"

Really!? thats how you look at that event in history you look at it as ooo well it had happened to get ratings against WWF.

Instead of how most fans look at it, a great moment wrestling, no the WWE is not desperate for ratings so since they arent desperate ratings, your cool with just watching decent television, that with effort could easily do better. The WWE needs to have an excuse like competition with another company to put a awesome product on the TV screen. Give me a fuckin break you obviously don't even enjoy wrestling and just enjoy its politics.

Yes us fans who ask for awesome moments on the same level of a hogan vs goldberg, taker vs austin, Andre vs Hogan, Warrior vs Macho Man, Flair vs Sting are so wrong for wanting to see great moments that you will remember years and the entertained you like nothing you have ever seen.

Yea why should WWE have something like that now? Why should WWE want to entertain its fans, and put on a great show for you to remember? Do you even like wrestling becasue with the kind of question you ask it sure doesnt seam that way

You want to spout your smark talk and say I'm not the target audience, ok whats your point there is not prime audience for having great matches that people remember. If their was a post asking what match do people remember from they where ten years old and I bet we would get hundreds, involved top heel gets de-throned by top face. Thats what wresting is when you break it down whether your 10 or 50 right now, so it does not matter who the target audience is, the fact is why in the hell would you not want to see a great match that will be remembered 15 years later and people would still talk about no matter what your age is.

 

[Hazardous]

As to answer the main part of your rant why do we need another hogan vs goldberg faceoff, the question you should be asking yourself is why not? Why in the hell as a fan I dont care if you are 4 or 40 would you not want see a match of that caliber why would you not want to see the ultimate of good vs evil, thats what foundation of wrestling was built on.

We do have bad vs good. Cena/Nexus, Kane/Taker. That not good enough for you right now?

Your acting like us as fans of the WWE are asking for soemthing outrageous, of some major overhaul, the OP didnt just go on some randomn rant about there is not enough heels, he gave a great example in what wrestling is about, you sit here and want to look at WWF/E vs WCW as battle between company like a smark and not as a fan. you sit here and say
Really!? thats how you look at that event in history you look at it as ooo well it had happened to get ratings against WWF.

And you're treating it like it was the biggest thing to ever happen in wrestling. It was good, and I enjoyed it. But it wasn't the biggest. The good guy overthrew the badguy who had been running the place like he owned it. I get it, Saw it with HHH as well, when Benoit beat him, and when Goldberg beat him. Why do those ones not get a mention? Do I think WCW did it on Nitro to help with the raitings? Damn right I do. And it was perfect, could not have been done any better. And what the WWE is about has evolved since back in those days. Hell, back then they were actually called "Wrestlers" not "Sports entertainers" Things changed. It aint about "Good vs Evil" anymore. I could show you a clip of Vince talking about this very thing even. I am a fan of WWE, as I was of WWF, and for a while WCW. I watch, and enjoy. Not complain about what it's lacking. Maybe you should try that as well.

no the WWE is not desperate for ratings so since they arent desperate ratings, your cool with just watching decent television, that with effort could easily do better. The WWE needs to have an excuse like competition with another company to put a awesome product on the TV screen. Give me a fuckin break you obviously don't even enjoy wrestling and just enjoy its politics.

Actually I enjoy the product the WWE has. Have no complaints about it at all, which is why I said in the first place that we don't NEED another "Hogan/Goldberg" feud right now, as really there is no need. The WWE is fine as it is. I'm entertained. I tune into RAW each week, and if I can, I catch Smackdown as well.

Yes us fans who ask for awesome moments on the same level of a hogan vs goldberg, taker vs austin, Andre vs Hogan, Warrior vs Macho Man, Flair vs Sting are so wrong for wanting to see great moments that you will remember years and the entertained you like nothing you have ever seen.

Well HBK vs Taker was pretty epic, and that only happened a few months ago. Sheamus HHH was enjoyable as well, again, only happened this year. Kane/Taker is still going on, I like that one. Oh, but thats right, you said I must not like wrestling..

Yea why should WWE have something like that now? Why should WWE want to entertain its fans, and put on a great show for you to remember? Do you even like wrestling becasue with the kind of question you ask it sure doesnt seam that way

Because I don't have an issue with the way things are right now, it means I don't like wrestling? Wow, you're just smarter then god himself if you can come up with something like that! Maybe it is YOU who needs to actually watch and enjoy the product you have on, instead of talking about how it can be better. You don't work there, and judging by the things you say, there's a damn good reason why.

You want to spout your smark talk and say I'm not the target audience, ok whats your point there is not prime audience for having great matches that people remember. If their was a post asking what match do people remember from they where ten years old and I bet we would get hundreds, involved top heel gets de-throned by top face. Thats what wresting is when you break it down whether your 10 or 50 right now, so it does not matter who the target audience is, the fact is why in the hell would you not want to see a great match that will be remembered 15 years later and people would still talk about no matter what your age is.

And again, I can list at least 2 from this year alone that were great. Just because they don't do the "good vs evil" shit doesn't mean that the product isn't great, or the match quality sucks. I fully enjoy Heel vs Heel, or Face vs Face just as much as I do Face vs Heel. You want them to put on one of these "Epic" matches every month or something? I think the one's we get at 'Mania are good enough as it is. Again, no issue with the current WWE product, which is why I replied in the first place to say it was bogus that we NEED some super heel vs Super face. The game has evolved. Either evolve with it, or get left behind.

 

[mrbooker]

I never ONCE said we NEEDED it and I never once said WWE has not put on good matches, unlike what you just ranted in your enitre post and managed to throw hogan vs goldberg a few times im staying on track with the topic which has talking about heels, and HEELS VS FACE THATS WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT. Great you dont think there is a need you can settle for cena vs nexus, that whole thing was shot dead in the foot once cena won at summerslam he beat them clean on, took out two of its top guys after taking a beating, made it clear Cena is the better man, OVER IT it was good and intrigued me summerslam was the payoff, Kane vs Taker its stale I have seen it done already TWICE "The game has evolved. Either evolve with it, or get left behind"

The whole point is WWE has not done anything of this nature in a while its not like they do this once a year it has not been done in over 5 years. Where the #1 and #2 guys in the company are face and heel, and has been dangled infront of your face for months. Wow they dont need it so we shouldn't talk about, or want it. You are knocking people for wanting to see something great on TV, yea that product is ok but you act like its a crime for wrestling to excite you not just entertain you.

And again please go to either my post or the OP's post and find where either one of us said "the WWE NEEDS a Hogan vs Goldberg feud" take your time because you will not find it because no one said such a thing, when the hell did me or the OP mention the Attitude era which is the first word in your 1st post response? Never

you try to put it out there like that so you can turn this into a PG era supporter post and go on a rant on how great WWE is doing and if you dont like it watch TNA or get stuck in the past. Put no one ever said their NEEDED to be anything thats what your whole rant revolves around and no one said a feud of that nature was NEEDED it was about the lack of top heels, and how far the WWE is from a major top heel/face feud that generates a crowd reaction like that match did. maybe you should check it out on youtube if you even watched wcw or wrestling for that matter back then, you wont find that kind of reaction in WWE title matches if you looked now, and thats fine because WWE is building new stars, since everyone bitched about seeing orton/HHH/Cena toss around so its understandable that its not going to happen because those kinda matches that generate that much of a crowd reaction come around once or twice a decade.

But thats why we are discussing it and some wishing for a match of that caliber, im sure you will somehow try and make this about standing up for the WWE again, and putting words in peoples mouth that were never said again! but I guess thats what you do when you cant discuss wrestlings past without getting to touchy on your love for the product now