Where are the stars?

[AegonTargaryen]

I've signed in after ages, obviously. I haven't watched the WWE religiously for years now and the last time I watched segments from RAW was daniel bryan's journey to become the WWE WHC(Wrestlemania), until he got injured. Then brock lesnar happened and seth rollins won the title at WM, all of which I missed- both the buildup and PPVs. Though I did read results on wrestlezone which is how I kept myself connected and informed as far as the Wrestling World goes. Now I was aware that the WWE was in the midst of a rebirth with new stars like The Shield and The Wyatt family in 2013.

Fast forward to right now, Night of Champions and the Raws before and after it. First of all I confess that I've been disconnecting from the WWE since 2008 and had stopped watching every raw/smackdown since 2010 and the last time I was even a little passionate about the major storyline/championship reign was when C.M. Punk was champion. So right now, I'm virtually entirely disconnected and dispassionate, and I've gotten into movies instead. But I tried to watch Raw and Smackdown and found the wrestling absolutely boring (Dolph Ziggler vs Rusev, Ambrose/Reigns vs Wyatts, etc. ). I can't relate to shit- seth rollins as champion, Authority, Sting...And I tried to watch NOC- I enjoyed the New Day promo and match against the dudleys, and saw Sting. But beyond that, I felt totally empty.

Now. Is it just me or the WWE just doesn't have anything exciting/thrilling/stimulating in an intelligent way to offer by way of personas/storylines? In fact, even the wrestling part of it is boring. I know that Cesaro, Daniel Bryan and Jack Swagger were the "wrestlers" whom you could watch for the sheer joy of wrestling(excluding storylines) as compared to the Kurt Angles and Chris Benoits of the 2000s.

1)Seth Rollins doesnt amuse or impress me. C.M. Punk did and I was invested, even Daniel Bryan to an extent.

2)Kane and Big Show are still around.

3)I can't seem to get myself to listen to a 10-minute Bray Wyatt promo comprising of how he'll destroy Reigns and Ambrose or whoever the hell. I just can't.

4)There's sheamus and dolph ziggler and bunch of other guys, none of which motivates or interests me enough for me to want to watch.

5)Dean Ambrose can't really wrestle. Chris Jericho did. Kurt Angle did. Basically I just can't get myself to want to watch Dean Ambrose or Roman Reigns, let alone get excited by another Wyatt Family monsters-Reigns and Ambrose encounter. It just felt contrived.

So, are there any stars besides Sting and Brock Lesnar?

Randy Orton and John Cena are around but aren't they so predictable, done-it-all and seen-it-all?

How much did WWE do with what could have been stars? -Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barret, Cesaro, Damien Sandow, Cody Rhodes?

Do you really find Seth Rollins a believable champion and someone who makes you want to check out monday night Raw, as we wanted to check out CM Punk and Daniel Bryan? I don't.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

I dsiagree with a some statements you made in your post.

Seth Rollins is impressive. Bray Wyatt is great on the mic. Sheamus and Dolph Ziggler are interesting. Dean Ambrose is an excellent wrestler.

Do you seriously think Brock Lesnar and Sting are the only stars? If so, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I find myself bored with WWE at times because truly entertaining moments are uncommon. Very few wrestlers are actually booked correctly. However, there is plenty of talent, which leads to hope and anticipation for the future. Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Bray Wyatt, Roman Reigns, and Dean Ambrose are all 31 or younger, so WWE has a very talented and entertaining group of main eventers for the next 5-6 years. Then you have a ton of talent in NXT ready to be called up at any moment.

The talent is there, but unfortunately WWE doesn't know what to do with it. I predict that when Triple H takes over (which might be sooner than most people think), WWE can and will reach heights of popularity never before seen.

 

[Aquaman6686]

The stars are all there, but they're all being shoved aside in favor of younger talent who get handed main event spots without earning them. The guys who SHOULD be main eventing today's events were completely ignored. What WWE basically did is went from one generation of stars to TWO generations later, skipping over the generation in the middle.

 

[OYDK]

So, are there any stars besides Sting and Brock Lesnar?

Depends on what you mean by "star". If you're talking about legends than wouldn't HHH, Taker, Cena, Orton, etc. not be classified as "stars"? If you mean legitimate mainstream stars, than that list wouldn't even include Sting. It's basically just Lesnar and The Rock. But if you're referring to wrestlers who excite you and make you want to tune in, it's all subjective and therefore not worth discussing. For instance in that respect, I see Rollins, Cena, Lesnar, Ambrose, Owens, and Bray Wyatt as "stars", but I'm sure you would disagree. Just like I disagree on your assessments. Again, it's hard to argue when the topic is subjective.

Randy Orton and John Cena are around but aren't they so predictable, done-it-all and seen-it-all?

Uh I guess? Personally, the fact that John Cena has taken a step back from the main event scene has been like a breath of fresh air to me. He's had one of the most memorable US title runs since probably his last run and has been putting on some absolute classic matches. As for Orton, he's taken a step back as well and really only shows up every couple of weeks. Both guys are slowly being phased out.

How much did WWE do with what could have been stars? -Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barret, Cesaro, Damien Sandow, Cody Rhodes?

Again, this is subjective. I never found Swagger, Ziggler, or Rhodes to be anything special. All have gotten chance after chance and haven't done too much with them. Most of these guys are where they belong... entrenched in the mid-card. Out of the others you named, only Cesaro and Barrett are really being misused in my opinion but WWE has at least been trying with them (well, trying with Cesaro). If Jack Swagger excites you and Seth Rollins doesn't, than you really should just turn off of WWE. You'll never be excited again.

Do you really find Seth Rollins a believable champion and someone who makes you want to check out monday night Raw, as we wanted to check out CM Punk and Daniel Bryan? I don't.

Yeah I do. CM Punk didn't necessarily make me want to watch Raw nor did Daniel Bryan. I watch Raw for the whole experience. If CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are the only good parts about Raw than I'm not going to tune in, same goes for Seth Rollins. Rollins, like Punk and Bryan were, is one of the reasons I watch, but he's not even close to the only reason.

 

[mkw1962]

There are to many Wrestlers right now and not enough T.V. time to show them all. The storylines are not that great right now but there is a lot of talented wrestlers out there. As far as your question here we go:
PRESENT STARS John Cena still an awesome wrestler and your U.S. Champion
Randy Orton semi retired but still a fan favorite. The Dudleys what do you need to say soon to be Tag Team Champions. Yes Kane and Big Show are still there but Kane is in a big storyline with the World Champion right now and Big Show will be fighting Brock Lesnar.
PRESENT/FUTURE STARS Seth Rollins good wrestler and part of the future of this business, your World Champion. Kevin Owens Intercontinental Champion and a good wrestler part of the future of this business. There are so many stars in this business Roman Reigns(future), Dean Ambrose, Bray Wyatt, Ryback, Rusev, Dolph Ziggler, Luke Harper, New Day and a whole lot of the Divas division.
SEMI USED STARS Neville, Stardust, Prime Time Players, Cesaro.
UN USED STARS Jack Swagger, Curtis Axel, Miz, Adam Rose, Fandango, Sandow and there are probably others that I have forgotten. What I am trying to say is all of these wrestlers could be major stars with the right storylines and a push at the right time they all have potential that is why they are in the WWE.

 

[Blade]

Just two things before I get into my post:

5)Dean Ambrose can't really wrestle.

Well, that's what people said about Mick Foley. Ambrose just has a different style. He's a caution-to-the-wind brawler. And it works for him.

Do you really find Seth Rollins a believable champion and someone who makes you want to check out monday night Raw, as we wanted to check out CM Punk and Daniel Bryan? I don't.

In fairness, Rollins is a heel. You're not supposed to tune in for the heel, you're supposed to tune in for the babyface who's going to beat up the heel.

Anyway, WWE is stuck in an awkward transitional period. While he is a medical marvel, Cena can't wrestle for ever. I mean, what, 5 years full-time left, tops? Orton is already working a lighter schedule. Then you have the relics of the Attitude Era, from Taker to Big Show, who just kind of hang around. They don't have more than a year or two left in 'em.

Meanwhile, WWE doesn't seem to be doing enough to build stars. They've got Rollins, who's being booked pretty badly. Reigns, who's momentum has been inconsistent, to say the least. Bray Wyatt is just starting to build credibility again, thanks to Strowman. Kevin Owens is doing well. But apart from those guys, I don't really see anyone that I could see as a carrier of the company for years to come. Everyone else is either having trouble getting to that next level, like Ambrose and Sheamus, or just not very good, like Ziggler and Wade Barrett. Sure, there's guys like Balor, Zayn, and Crews in NXT, but it's hard to tell what they can bring to the main roster until they're actually there.

So who's to blame? Does WWE not know how to make stars anymore? Or is the talent just not as good these days?

Well, the answer lies somewhere in between. WWE has quite a lot of restrictions on their talent that wasn't there years ago, and it makes things trickier for superstars to get over. But at the same time, when have restrictions ever stopped the cream from rising to the top?

So I don't know. WWE is in a weird position at the moment. But they do need to figure it out quickly, or else the company will have trouble when it's in the hands of the next generation.

 

[whoopin' ass]

There are none. Because wwe wasn't investing in young talent, none really get over and made it to stars. Look back when Hogan and the old guys left WWF - they had no choice but to push guys like Hall, HBK, Bret and it made them stars. Today, they still have the same handful of top guys for the last decade - anyone like Punk or Edge who did break though are now gone, and because the still protect Cena, no one really gets over. Instead of pushing the younger guys, they bring back stars like Rock and Lesnar and give them the time that they should give to the younger talent. Rollins may be champ but he is still far from being the top guy in the company which is sad because even when Austin was the man in WWF, Rock, Foley and others were still stars. Your stars don't have to be champs, Piper is a great example of that, but in wwe's mind they are the same thing and until some guys start retiring, no one will get made into stars.

 

[stingray11214]

The problem WWE has now is it has no idea what WWE IS. It has no idea whether it is a professional wrestling company, a movie studio, or some type of entertainment concern. VKM has already stated that WWE is NOT a wrestling company. So, how can you develop someone for a job in a company that states your job does not exist in that same company? Look at what WWE has now: JT Black, Jon Moxley, Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, Miroslav, KENTA, Kana, Mercedes KV, Brian Danielson. Noticed what I did there? NONE of them came off the street to be trained by WWE or NXT. They ALL came from other companies. Even John Cena came from another company!

Now, let's look at how well the WWE has done to develop their OWN stars: Roman Reigns, The Miz, Jack Swagger, The Bellas, Bo Dallas, Big E. How well has WWE done in training their own? If they have, they would not be going out of their way to go after the top stars of the industry, and then sticking them into a "Developmental" roster instead of on the main roster. They are, in effect, passing off others creations as their own.

I do not blame you for not being passionate or enthusiastic about the WWE product. Some of it is pretty ridiculous. Some of it is just plain bad. I like a good fight. Keep the nonsensical promos out of it. Short, sweet and to the point works. RAW can have 8-10 matches an episode if WWE wanted it. The first hour of RAW could be used for quick statements and squashes. Let Rusev beat up tomato cans for 2-3 minute squashes. Have nothing that evening for Braun Strowman? Hire some Indy jobber to get pulverized on National TV. Need Erick Rowan to have some rehab assignment? Feed him a local! That has been done for eons. We do not need to see a 30 minute promo between two wrestlers that either love or hate each other. We get it. They are allies/enemies/frenemies. We understand that they may or may not be rivals. Now, shut up and wrestle. Why must Seth Rollins be on TV at ALL? Make people PAY to see the champ. Let him come out and say if someone wants a shot at the belt, he'll be waiting for him Wednesday night at the WZ Arena in West Bumblefuck, Tennessee. And, he is gone for the night. Guess what? That show will get a bump of maybe 30% who are going to see the Champeen get his comeuppance.

But, that is the problem: They are a TV show in the guise of "Modern Family", "Heroes", and "Gunsmoke", rather than a wrestling promotion on TV. If they would just do what they do best and leave it at that, WWE would be a far better product to watch. They would be able to create stars, and make a hell of a lot more money. So you lose the B-List Hollywood actors. Big whoop. But, you would have a far more coherent, and far more superior product, than you have now.

 

[Just Zay'n]

The stars are all there, but they're all being shoved aside in favor of younger talent who get handed main event spots without earning them. The guys who SHOULD be main eventing today's events were completely ignored. What WWE basically did is went from one generation of stars to TWO generations later, skipping over the generation in the middle.

I kind of disagree with this. None of these so-called "stars" have managed to win over the audience, to the extent where they absolutely demand to see them otherwise they're gonna start a shitshorm. The last person to do that, obviously, was Daniel Bryan, whose days are sadly numbered due to injury. Even guys like Randy Orton, IMO, were never "stars" in the sense that Austin, Rock, HBK, Hogan etc. were. So WWE has been getting behind certain wrestlers in order to find "the next star" - unfortunately for Reigns, he wasn't able to fully take advantage of that.

The guy that should've been the next star was Dean Ambrose, with him delivering those hilarious promos throughout 2014, shaking things up, and above all bullying Seth Rollins

I think it was that Rollins dummy skit that stopped his push, WWE was obviously testing the waters with him as to "how crazy he could get", and when it came off as awkward and out-of-place they slowly buried him and never really gave him another chance promo-wise.

(Absolutely think he's the one that should win the Rumble next year)

 

[AegonTargaryen]

The problem WWE has now is it has no idea what WWE IS. It has no idea whether it is a professional wrestling company, a movie studio, or some type of entertainment concern. VKM has already stated that WWE is NOT a wrestling company.

Now, let's look at how well the WWE has done to develop their OWN stars: Roman Reigns, The Miz, Jack Swagger, The Bellas, Bo Dallas, Big E. How well has WWE done in training their own? If they have, they would not be going out of their way to go after the top stars of the industry, and then sticking them into a "Developmental" roster instead of on the main roster. They are, in effect, passing off others creations as their own.

Brilliant post. That's my whole point. Someone above disagreed with me and said that Seth Rollins is impressive and talented. And I've never said that Seth Rollins or Dean Ambrose or Roman Reigns have no talent whatsoever. Lets consider Seth Rollins. From a casual fans' perspective, the way he is booked, it's been done a thousand times-he's the coward heel who's always whining to the authority. Wasn't Randy Orton doing the same in 2013? And Edge in 2008? How am I supposed to want to tune in when I can't relate to Seth Rollins. More importantly, I don't find him believable. I think it's too soon and too rushed. Chris Jericho or Rob Van Dam were never allowed to be world champions back in the 2000s though they were ready and we wanted them. But now that the WWE is exhausted with John Cena and Randy Orton as champions, and Brock Lesnar isn't available, HHH/Authority conveniently find Seth Rollins as "the guy". It's like Shawn Michaels was made champion in 1993 instead. IN SHORT, it doesn't feel organic.

Another thing which concerns me as a former passionate and zealous WWE/Wrestling fan is that they never allowed a single fucking wrestler in whom I/we felt invested to rise. It's like they dictate who's going to be their guy(right now it's seth rolllins). Take Cesaro for example. He has all the skills. He's a physical specimen. His mic skills are far better than Brock Lesnar's back in 2002. What's he doing now? Fighting Big Show. Hell, he lost to the Big Show on Raw, then Smackdown, and Raw again.

I was never a huge Barrett fan but between 2010-2015, Barrett has accomplished even less than Cesaro. Though Wade Barrett, TBH, is injury-prone and simply not World Champion material(subjective, I know).

Sheamus was never that impressive or interesting and guess what, he's already what- a 5 time former champion? And he has the MITB briefcase.

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

Do you really find Seth Rollins a believable champion and someone who makes you want to check out monday night Raw, as we wanted to check out CM Punk and Daniel Bryan? I don't.

Honestly. I agree with almost all of your posts. ESPECIALLY regarding the "mid card" of Zig/Sheamus/Cena/Orton. They are just BEAT TO DEATH. Get them off my screen or do something interesting with them. PLEASE.


When it comes to Seth though I can honestly see where you're coming from. If you haven't been watching turning it on and hearing his whiny heel routine could be jarring. But the slow burn element to his character/promos and ESPECIALLY his best-in-the-business ring work does appeal to me greatly. Can't wait for the Architect era to continue!!

 

[rbv13]

The problem WWE has now is it has no idea what WWE IS. It has no idea whether it is a professional wrestling company, a movie studio, or some type of entertainment concern.

WWE knows exactly what it is. It is a Entertainment Production Company. The company is directed towards a number of avenues. It just so happens their largest and most recognized division is its production of Sports Entertainment/Pro Wrestling. The problem is with fans who refuse to acknowledge this very simple truth. Going back as far as Capitol Wrestling Corporation is wasn't entirely about pro wrestling. When the parent company become Titan Sports they seriously began to diversify their business practices. Now with the evolution to WWE they are so much more than in ring antics. By their own admission they do not want WWE to stand for World Wrestling Entertainment. It is meant to stand alone as WWE representing their numerous Entertainment Production outlets.

 

[FromGlasgow]

My view if you only search for the negatives your aways going to find them, My advice is stop watching and find something else to do on a monday night as life is too short.
I'm the opposite I disliked when CM Punk was champion or heavily pushed and still think that guy was both the most overrated and whiniest wrestler in history and think the whole WWE product had improved a lot since he left.

 

[rmp0012002]

Unfortunately for the wrestling fan the WWE knows exactly what it is. If Vince could drop the wrestling part of the company he would in a heartbeat but he's tied to it forever and it's the reason he will never be the media mogul he desires. If the wrestling is poor Vince doesn't care unless it affects his stock share price.

 

[Jericho91]

Now. Is it just me or the WWE just doesn't have anything exciting/thrilling/stimulating in an intelligent way to offer by way of personas/storylines?

They haven't had anything exciting/thrilling/stimulating in years. People like me spend more time critiquing it rather than praising it.

Sad to say that i am the least entertained and only watch out of habit because WWE was once a very big part of my life as a fan.

1)Seth Rollins doesnt amuse or impress me. C.M. Punk did and I was invested, even Daniel Bryan to an extent.

Seth Rollins to me personally is simply decent. Nothing special and not necessarily boring. If it were up to me I'd spice up his character and allow him to be himself to the fullest.

I always get the sense that WWE are censoring Seth's full potential. I can say the same about the majority of the new generation of wrestlers there.

2)Kane and Big Show are still around.

Is that a problem ?

3)I can't seem to get myself to listen to a 10-minute Bray Wyatt promo comprising of how he'll destroy Reigns and Ambrose or whoever the hell. I just can't.

I've never been so excited during the PG Era to be extremely thrilled about a wrestlers debut in the WWE more than Bray Wyatt's.

Unfortunately, the WWE misused him to such a degree that his entire credibility (Of what could've been a great monster heel) flushed down the toilet like a piece of shit.

So, are there any stars besides Sting and Brock Lesnar?

You've got the Dudley's that are stars too.

How much did WWE do with what could have been stars? -Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barret, Cesaro, Damien Sandow, Cody Rhodes?

Damien Sandow is just a jobber now doing house shows. They didn't put any emphasis into his character and let it evolve. It's like they just showcased it to the world for a couple of months then decided to scrap it without taking it any further.

Cody Rhodes was absolute shit until they changed his gimmick to Star Dust but that only makes him slightly more entertaining. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cesaro actually bores me. He's better off as a heel than a baby face. Wade Barret can be entertaining but Vince doesn't want him to be. As for Jack Swagger, I'm just speechless. I don't know what to say.

Do you really find Seth Rollins a believable champion and someone who makes you want to check out monday night Raw, as we wanted to check out CM Punk and Daniel Bryan? I don't.

I agree that Seth Rollins isn't a believable champion.

 

[Nada]

Mayweather is a perfect example how even people who are very unlikable for the majority of the populace, domestic abuse, and very small size, and yet he is a mega star. Why? Because he wins, and wins and goddamn wins. Imagine Mayweather in NXT, he would be New Day's geeky friend who gets thrown through tables, and when that gets tiring, he is let go and joins TNA as Waymeather.

Ronda Rousey, while cute, is not "Diva" quality, she is not skinny enough, and neither her boobs or ass are big enough, she would not even get called up for Raw.

Cain Velasquez would have been Alberto del Rio's bodyguard, who is fed to Cena, after giving him some racist and generic mexican gimmick, he is let go.


You asked where the stars are, they are likely in the company, but their startdom is subdued and wrapped around WWE bullshit.

 

[dsotm5150]

It's obvious to me that there are 6 problems with not just the WWE but wrestling in general these days. Since WWE is the most visible though, I'll focus mostly on them because I don't get to see the TNA or ROH shows. Really it all comes down to the lack of captivating and interesting creative story lines and booking.

1. Lack of big name main event stars(they have stars, but who do they really have that can drive a show right now?) And this has been an issue for years with the fact that they feel the need to continously bring in part timers. Don't get me wrong its nice to see the nostalgia of The Rock or Undertaker and even Sting, but where are the going to be when these guys finally so no I don't need the payday, I'm not coming in. Other than Cena, Orton and Rollins who do they have as a true main event-er right now? They've got some tremendous talent in the upper-mid card and the mid card tiers, just need to book them properly to get them to that next level.

2. Which brings me to my next point; Lack of creativity, its almost like there's only 2 storylines going on that are getting any effort put into them. Kane vs Seth Rollins, which already feels like a rehash of Sting/Rollins from the month before. Plus the Divas Revolution which has already pretty much run its course due to lousy booking. I don't know if the creative team has had a shake up in awhile or not, but it get use some fresh blood.

3. The Boys. The industry has changed, the guys have changed. I'm old timer going all the way back to before the Monday Night Wars so I've seen wrestling change a few times, and to me it just doesn't seem like the guys have the same drive, mentality or charisma to them that the '80s and '90s had. Yes times change, but again your a performer you still have to be able to captivate the hearts and minds of the fans. Again this could all go back to the creative and booking teams, maybe there's just nothing groundbreaking left to do in the industry, or maybe todays generation of guys just don't have it. I don't know.

4. The transition from TV-14 to PG. I think this might be their biggest issue, as we all know the only reason the WWF is still standing today is because they were able to do the edgier, more adult, over the top stuff that gave them the edge over WCW who was limited in how far they could push the envelope by Turner's censors. With doing that, they created the most profitable boom period in modern wrestling history, but in doing that they also created this idea of the edgier, the more violent, the more over the top the better, and with the ability for fans old and new to go back and watch that period in wrestling, I think hurts the product in a way of people going, oh wow that was awesome why aren't they doing stuff like that anymore! Of course, though it all comes back to creativity, if you can't book a Mick Foley getting thrown off the top of a hell in the cell, have the blood, or an nWo totally dismantling the WCW locker room to the point that Disney is calling the cops on you, then you need to figure out how to book a PG show and still be able to keep it captivating.

5. Vince McMahon's war against wrestling. Going back 25 years if not more, Vince has stated "We are not a wrestling company, we are Sports Entertainment" ok thats fine, except you are sucking at the entertainment part. No matter how hard he tries, pleads and tells the world that sky is green and grass is blue, its not going to go over any better than telling someone WWE is sports entertainment. And this is just a shot in the dark, but why not put the wrestling back into it? Instead of 3 - 8 minute matches and 12 - 20 minute promos, why not put the emphasis back on the wrestling and use the drama to enhance the matches instead of vice versa. A big part of the story used to get told in the ring through wrestling, not through the microphone. Again pipe dream but at this point its such a complete 180 from what they're doing now it would probably work.

Again could it just be that wrestling is entering a lull peroid? Possibility, I think it goes back to the lack of creativity though and the main event status stars, because an advertised appearance of the Rock or The Undertaker or a big name from the past usually drives ratings up a point or so, it should tell you something.