What if....?

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

2011. Punk's pipebomb happened in 2011, and, believe it or not, love for Punk or not, it changed the WWE. Sure, we didn't get icecream bars, or we didn't get a different title design, but we really got change. We got all these "smaller" guys, like Bryan, Rollins, a lot of the NXT roster etc being in front scene right now.

So, the question is simple. How would WWE be right now, had that not happened?

If I remember correctly, at that time, we were coming off WM27 where Miz retained the title, then Cena won it from him at the next PPV. It seemed like we would have Miz vs Cena for some time, and Punk's contract would expire. If Punk would leave at that time, who would face Cena for the titles? There was no credible Superstar at that time, apart from maybe Orton, to do it. Apart from the short-term plan, how would the WWE be right now?

Obviously, we can't predict that. We don't know who would have been here at the moment. But I firmly believe that we wouldn't have all these new stars. It would just still be Orton and Cena main eventing most of the time, with part timers coming back to raise PPV buys etc. I firmly believe that Bryan wouldn't be where he is. Sure, his YES chants might have gone through, but it seems like the who Punk aura made it eligible for these guys to get a main event shot.

Most people know I am a Punk mark, but we need to look things straight in the eye. I don't know how biased this is and I know that WWE isn't dependant on one guy, but if this whole Punk movement hadn't happened back then and the WWE kept going with the 2004-2011 formula in the main event scene, I think WWE would have been declining so much now that we could be even talking about it probably dying. Sure, WWE is a mega company and it is the best at its product, but still, if there are no people to watch, then it will die, and it seems like at that time, people were tuning out because they found the product uninteresting.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

As The Miz say Really? Really? Really?

Typical CM Punk mark mentality.

You do know that the sun doesn't shine around Punk, right? Oh wait you probably do.


With that being said, guys like Bryan and Cesaro would've found individual success if punk's SCRIPTED promo happened or not.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I agree with the OP's sentiment regarding CM Punk's pipebomb from 2011 causing a series of changes in the WWE. I think it's obvious had it not been for CM Punk in 2011, the title picture on Raw and the overall pool of superstars looked pretty dreary and drab. This was the same year that MIZ main-evented wrestlemania, dropped it to Cena , and R-truth(yeah R-truth) got a title shot at CENA. CM Punk and his movement essentially saved the WWE. As the OP said, it can't be exactly predicted how things would've been, had the Punk thing never happened but one thing's for sure. CM Punk paved the way for the WWE to give other Indy guys/Unconventional superstars such as Bryan, Cesaro, Rollins, etc. a chance. Without CM Punk, there certainly would've never been a Daniel Bryan. Think about it- John Cena is the same guy who tormented the wrestling world from 2005 endlessly and never lost to big wrestlers like Lashley, Orton(he never lost/dropped the title in 2007 but got injured), nor very popular superstars/icons like Kurt Angle(2005) and Shawn Michaels (2007) and so on. Why the hell would he drop it to a tiny wrestler named Daniel Bryan at Summerslam in 2013? Because CM Punk had changed the WWE mentality by winning it first at MITB/Summerslam and carrying on his historic title reign from Survivor Series 2011.

To sum up, I have a conviction similar to the OP. CM Punk paved the way for Daniel Bryan , period. For that, we should be grateful because he gave us many entertaining moments and a much-needed change from John Cena and Randy Orton. But Alas, as exciting as the WWE seems today, they will still rely on some part-timers for future Wrestlemanias. But we should be glad for a pool of talented stars we never had before- especially Cesaro, The Shield, and Bray Wyatt.

 

[lil steroid meat]

The Punk promo definitely forced the WWE's hand as far as the direction it was going in.

Before the Punk promo, if I recall correctly guys like R-Truth were main eventing for the World Title with imaginary friends being involved in match finishes of the most important title in pro wrestling.

So I'm definitely glad it happened.

But there's no way to say what would have taken it's place. Plans change at the drop of a dime, an angle could go on for 6 months, or it could be dropped with no explanation after one segment, and the summer of 2011 + the 400 day reign Punk had is too much time to guess at.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

I agree with the OP's sentiment regarding CM Punk's pipebomb from 2011 causing a series of changes in the WWE. I think it's obvious had it not been for CM Punk in 2011, the title picture on Raw and the overall pool of superstars looked pretty dreary and drab. This was the same year that MIZ main-evented wrestlemania, dropped it to Cena , and R-truth(yeah R-truth) got a title shot at CENA. CM Punk and his movement essentially saved the WWE. As the OP said, it can't be exactly predicted how things would've been, had the Punk thing never happened but one thing's for sure. CM Punk paved the way for the WWE to give other Indy guys/Unconventional superstars such as Bryan, Cesaro, Rollins, etc. a chance. Without CM Punk, there certainly would've never been a Daniel Bryan. Think about it- John Cena is the same guy who tormented the wrestling world from 2005 endlessly and never lost to big wrestlers like Lashley, Orton(he never lost/dropped the title in 2007 but got injured), nor very popular superstars/icons like Kurt Angle(2005) and Shawn Michaels (2007) and so on. Why the hell would he drop it to a tiny wrestler named Daniel Bryan at Summerslam in 2013? Because CM Punk had changed the WWE mentality by winning it first at MITB/Summerslam and carrying on his historic title reign from Survivor Series 2011.

To sum up, I have a conviction similar to the OP. CM Punk paved the way for Daniel Bryan , period. For that, we should be grateful because he gave us many entertaining moments and a much-needed change from John Cena and Randy Orton. But Alas, as exciting as the WWE seems today, they will still rely on some part-timers for future Wrestlemanias. But we should be glad for a pool of talented stars we never had before- especially Cesaro, The Shield, and Bray Wyatt.

Lmao.

I hope you're trolling and not being serious.

There were a bunch of guys who debuted in 2000, named Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero, also started in independent promotions and worked all around the world when that little puke was getting his first tattoos and they won world titles.

Those guys were the trail blazers and the ones who paved the way not that little wannabe cm punk.

The Punk promo definitely forced the WWE's hand as far as the direction it was going in.

Before the Punk promo, if I recall correctly guys like R-Truth were main eventing for the World Title with imaginary friends being involved in match finishes of the most important title in pro wrestling.

Fast forward one year and John Laurinaitis is main eventing a PPV #DatChange

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Lmao.

I hope you're trolling and not being serious.

So anybody who perceives a historical and organic development in wrestling, and points out the major catalysts, in this case being CM Punk, is a troll? Stop overusing that word and buy a dictionary. That might actually help you construct more cogent and acceptable posts.

There were a bunch of guys who debuted in 2000, named Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero, also started in independent promotions and worked all around the world when that little puke was getting his first tattoos and they won world titles.

With all due respect to Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, who're undoubtedly legendary and two of the best pure wrestlers of all time, the subject at hand is not the latter half of Attitude Era and the Ruthless Aggression Era. It's how CM Punk essentially changed the direction of the WWE which in 2011 was totally devoid of direction and lacking in star power. Besides, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit are two totally different wrestlers and neither of them achieved what Punk did. Eddie became champion on the B-show, then became subservient to JBL and Batista, and was essentially a mid-carder. Chris Benoit was a mid-carder his entire 7 year WWE career except the first 6-or-so months in 2004 which were totally about Chris Benoit on Raw, that's undeniable. They were both short-term champions in a different time. When CM Punk became champion in 2011, the WWE was PG and pretty much revolved around John Cena. Coming from the Indy scene just as Bryan, CM Punk is the one who paved the way for the others, NOT Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit.

Those guys were the trail blazers and the ones who paved the way not that little wannabe cm punk.

Trail blazers what ? Trail blazers who were stuck in the mid-card because Batista was the family-friendly WHC on SD? Trail Blazers by feuding the likes of Rey Mysterio and Chavo Guerrero? Wake up from your dream land. Had it not been for CM Punk ,you'd have witnessed some other debacle like Miz or R-truth entangled with crappy John Cena and his crappy promos throughout 2011, 2012,....

Fast forward one year and John Laurinaitis is main eventing a PPV #DatChange

Does it change the fact that while the WWE's traditional superhero John Cena is battling "the odds" such as a grumpy, lousy, pathetic old loser like Big Show for the 19th time, and a non-wrestler like John Laurinaitis, CM Punk is wrestling five-star matches with the likes of Chris Jericho and Daniel Bryan on pay-per-views and TV alike? Wake up before it's too late.

 

[TheICChampion]

Relax, renaissanceman2014. When you point a finger at someone, how many fingers are pointing back at you? The 13-year-old Cena/Bieber(Or is it Beiber?) fanboy who's accusing people of trolling is probably nothing more than a troll himself. Go ahead, little boy. As Benoit said: "Prove me wrong." I'm a Punk fan. Have at it, bro. I think if there was no pipebomb, scripted or shoot, the WWE wouldn't be where it is today. Hell, Kevin Nash might've been champion again. I think if it was a work, they didn't really think it would go anywhere. But once they saw how the fans were reacting to it, they decided to change their plans. Then again, things don't seem all THAT different, if you ask me. Sure, Punk got his 434-day reign, but who was main-eventing the whole time? And just recently, that same superstar was embroiled in a rivalry with Orton for the main title(s) for the 10th time in the past 6 years or so.

 

[Punk_Aries_Daniels_Bryan]

After reading the first post, I figured there would be Punk fans and Punk haters on this thread. Now what I really started to hate (since being a Punk fan) are all Punk hate comments, but I figured that every person has their right to hold a certain opinion about any topic. However stupid those opinions may be, I don't believe the point of these forums is to insult one another and start some internet word fight that doesn't have any point.

Now, back to the thread.

CM Punk's pipebomb in 2011 was captivating for audiences because for them, it was something new, something distinctly REAL, and like Punk stated, "socially relevant". Prior to the pipebomb, the world heavyweight championship was Smackdown's main-event, and Little Jimmy was our top heel. Guys like The Miz (no offense to him) were winning and retaining the title against people like Randy Orton, John Cena, John Morrison, etc. CM Punk's work after the pipebomb was really good. His match at MITB against Cena was really the start of people paying legitimate attention to him. I believe that CM Punk really had emotion in his match, and that people could sense and feel it. He also went from a huge fan favorite to the best heel of 2012. I just felt like they used too many cheap tactics to put him over and that made him look weak as a champion.

Do I think that Daniel Bryan would be where he is right now if it were not for that pipebomb? No, I don't think so, and here is why.


I don't think that Vince and Trips would have invested in Daniel Bryan if it were not for the success they saw in CM Punk's run from 2011. Smaller guys get less attention in WWE, that has always been the case. Somebody stated that guys like Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero paved the way for people like CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. While I agree with that, its not completely true either. Think about it:

Chris Benoit only had one major championship win his whole career, the WHC.
Eddie Guerrero had one championship win his whole career, the WWE Championship.

I personally believe that those number of title wins suffice, but in an era where we have 13 time, 14 time, 11 time championship winners in the main picture, it is obvious that success depends on how many titles you win, not the matches you produce. Back in the day, you could compete in the mid-card and still be relevant, but not now. So for guys like Benoit and Eddie who were in the mid-card for the majority of their careers, didn't really give a great credential for smaller indie guys like Punk and Bryan to be in the main event.

If CM Punk hadn't been so successful, I don't think Bryan would be champion right now. No person in 2011 would have imagined that Daniel Bryan would beat Triple H at Wrestlemania and then beat Orton AND Batista in the main event IN THE SAME ppv to be the WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION. Sure, Bryan would have one day won the title, but just like Eddie and Benoit, it will come later in his career. I'm not bashing on Bryan. I think he is fantastic. I just wish that he could go back to the way he was when he was feuding with Punk. The look and aggressive style suits him more.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

So anybody who perceives a historical and organic development in wrestling, and points out the major catalysts, in this case being CM Punk, is a troll? Stop overusing that word and buy a dictionary. That might actually help you construct more cogent and acceptable posts.



With all due respect to Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, who're undoubtedly legendary and two of the best pure wrestlers of all time, the subject at hand is not the latter half of Attitude Era and the Ruthless Aggression Era. It's how CM Punk essentially changed the direction of the WWE which in 2011 was totally devoid of direction and lacking in star power. Besides, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit are two totally different wrestlers and neither of them achieved what Punk did. Eddie became champion on the B-show, then became subservient to JBL and Batista, and was essentially a mid-carder. Chris Benoit was a mid-carder his entire 7 year WWE career except the first 6-or-so months in 2004 which were totally about Chris Benoit on Raw, that's undeniable. They were both short-term champions in a different time. When CM Punk became champion in 2011, the WWE was PG and pretty much revolved around John Cena. Coming from the Indy scene just as Bryan, CM Punk is the one who paved the way for the others, NOT Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit.



Trail blazers what ? Trail blazers who were stuck in the mid-card because Batista was the family-friendly WHC on SD? Trail Blazers by feuding the likes of Rey Mysterio and Chavo Guerrero? Wake up from your dream land. Had it not been for CM Punk ,you'd have witnessed some other debacle like Miz or R-truth entangled with crappy John Cena and his crappy promos throughout 2011, 2012,....



Does it change the fact that while the WWE's traditional superhero John Cena is battling "the odds" such as a grumpy, lousy, pathetic old loser like Big Show for the 19th time, and a non-wrestler like John Laurinaitis, CM Punk is wrestling five-star matches with the likes of Chris Jericho and Daniel Bryan on pay-per-views and TV alike? Wake up before it's too late.

You say Benoit and Eddie were stuck in the mid-card? Hahahaha lmao.

Punk is the perfect example of a guy who is mid-card 4 life.

Even as WWE Champion, he was a mid-carder.

Even once during his reign, he was in a tag match with Santino against Rhodes and Bryan.

In that match, they did a spot where Santino tried to do the suicide dive but instead failed and got stuck in the ropes or something.


The once prestigious WWE Title was demoted to a comedy tag match. How lame.

CM Punk destroyed the prestige of the WWE title.


Then he returned in 2013 and he was feuding with Curtis Axel and Ryback in the mid-card and being a jobber to part-timers.

Punk is mid-card 4 life.




He didn't pave the way for anybody.

Bryan would've been a huge star but of course CM Punk marks want to give all credit for that little puke.

 

[The Yes Guy]

I seriously don't understand how incredibly stupid some of the fans are..
It is because of you people Pro wrestling fans are ridiculed.

You seriously don't believe One Punk Promo changed the course of the WWE..
What you fail to understand is, that was a storyline. Nothing happens without the boss's consent..
It was the Changeover in the administration of the WWE which has changed things.
Some time before that, Triple H was becoming more prominent and beginning to take major business decisions. Like pushing the younger wrestlers, NXT, and a lot more..

So, while I respect Punk as an in ring performer, it would be extremely pathetic to give him credit for something he never did coz he was "just a spoke in the wheel" and never changed anything..

Give Vince and Trips some credit for a change..

 

[Attitude_Era_Guy]

What you fail to understand is, that was a storyline. Nothing happens without the boss's consent.. QUOTE]

That promo was not a work. They gave Punk an open mic, and he said whatever the hell he wanted to.
_______________________________________________________________
RVD, CM Punk, and Chris Jericho.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

Relax, renaissanceman2014. When you point a finger at someone, how many fingers are pointing back at you? The 13-year-old Cena/Bieber(Or is it Beiber?) fanboy who's accusing people of trolling is probably nothing more than a troll himself. Go ahead, little boy. As Benoit said: "Prove me wrong." I'm a Punk fan. Have at it, bro. I think if there was no pipebomb, scripted or shoot, the WWE wouldn't be where it is today. Hell, Kevin Nash might've been champion again. I think if it was a work, they didn't really think it would go anywhere. But once they saw how the fans were reacting to it, they decided to change their plans. Then again, things don't seem all THAT different, if you ask me. Sure, Punk got his 434-day reign, but who was main-eventing the whole time? And just recently, that same superstar was embroiled in a rivalry with Orton for the main title(s) for the 10th time in the past 6 years or so.

Sure, during Punk's reign, Cena was still main eventing and all, but over the past couple of years, we are getting entertaining in ring action from the guys that can go in the ring. They are being given time because of this entire change. We see the Wyatts and the Shield etc in high profile feuds and long matches because the WWE changed tis course and let those guys go at it and I firmly believe that Punk's pipebomb played a huge role on it.

To cap everything off, look at who is the champion right now. I don't know if they planned for this all along or it was a last minute change, because from the fans' pressure, but nonetheless, Bryan was the hottest thing in wrestling for at least 10 months and was the focal point of every Raw. And, if you don't really wanna talk about the creative team changing that much, it definitely changed the fans. We went from an era where the crowds were dead, completely dead, no reactions and all, to an era where the fans are making the shows better than what they really are and the performances but the Superstars live up to the expectations. You have to believe that this thing was the aftermath of what Punk said. He brought back excitement, he brought back something different, something that people could legitly be excited for. That's why the arenas and the fans are so much more vocal now. Sure, there are the stupid crowds that chant random stuff, but there are the good ones too.

There are a lot of things that could be titled as Punk's pipebombs' doings, but hey, let's keep it short.

 

[blueskyy]

We got all these "smaller" guys, like Bryan, Rollins, a lot of the NXT roster etc being in front scene right now.

Smaller guys like Rollins? Rollins is at least 6' 2" by my estimate, so are the rest of The Shield.

ps: I honestly don't understand where all these is coming from. I've even heard people say that Big E Langston is just as tall as Mark Henry or Ryback... Is gauging a person's height that difficult?

 

[Mustang Sally]

You seriously don't believe One Punk Promo changed the course of the WWE....... What you fail to understand is, that was a storyline. Nothing happens without the boss's consent.

For sure. The storyline that revolved around Punk suggested that his presence changed how WWE did business, but we don't know how much that was so....or how much they wanted us to think so. Yes, Punk's departure a couple months ago lends credence to the idea that he really is a malcontent..... rather than just someone who played one on TV .....but those who think his cross-legged rants from ring center caught WWE management by surprise don't understand how unlikely it is that this type of thing could ever appear unexpectedly on our TV screens, even on a live show. The cameras would cut away so fast, we wouldn't even have known it was happening.

As to what would have happened had Punk not done his thing, I'd answer by saying WWE is a living, breathing corporate animal. Had Punk not been there, someone else would have been featured by management. I remember folks speculating that WWE was doomed when Hulk Hogan left....even before he showed up in WCW, an event that coincided with a movement to actually destroy WWE......yet, the company went on, as it always does. There's continually something new coming down the pike.

True, in today's world, it's "in" to hate much of the new stuff that comes along. To me, that's what's behind a lot of the "hate" and "bored" stuff for John Cena, and it's too bad because he's so unbelievably important to WWE.....and so vital because of his ability to put on great matches when the company really needs one, as well as sell for others and sometimes job for them....but the fact is, Cena is here and I'd sooner ask what would happen if he were gone, than CM Punk.

But, even if he disappeared tomorrow, WWE Creative would find ways to replace him. That's what they do. The Punk idea was good, but in my opinion, it had lost a lot of steam the past three years and management was featuring him less and less, although he was still a constant presence in the game plan. If you want to argue that they should have accented him more, that's sooner an issue for discussion than what they would do had he never arrived in the first place.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Smaller guys like Rollins? Rollins is at least 6' 2" by my estimate, so are the rest of The Shield.

ps: I honestly don't understand where all these is coming from. I've even heard people say that Big E Langston is just as tall as Mark Henry or Ryback... Is gauging a person's height that difficult?

I think by "smaller" he didn't just mean Stature-wise smaller but being unconventional/non-traditional looking guys becoming champions, which was certainly a trend started by CM Punk in 2008, and they also gave it to Jeff Hardy. In that regard, CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, Seth Rollins, etc. are all a body-type entirely contrasting to WWE's traditional champions such as Randy Orton, John Cena, Batista, HHH, and so on who were all well-built and not "small" .Who's denying Ambrose and Rollins are both over 6 foot tall? But when you put them next to guys like Roman Reigns, Ryback or Big E, they're "smaller".

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

Smaller guys like Rollins? Rollins is at least 6' 2" by my estimate, so are the rest of The Shield.

ps: I honestly don't understand where all these is coming from. I've even heard people say that Big E Langston is just as tall as Mark Henry or Ryback... Is gauging a person's height that difficult?

By smaller guys, I mostly meant guys that don't fit the prototypical WWE image. WWE wants guys like Orton, Cena, Rock, Hogan etc, that's why these guys have been the flagship guys of every era. It doesn't mean that everyone else isn't given opportunities, but if you see now, we get more of these "non-WWE" guys in high profile feuds than ever before, and people are enjoying it.