WHAT IF... The Montreal Screwjob didn't happen?

[It's...Baylariat!]

We all know about the Montreal Screwjob and what caused it, how it went down, and the aftermath. It's been discussed ad nauseum for ages on this forum and in conversations.

What I haven't seen much of is discussing what if it doesn't happen? What's the fall out? What if Bret Hart decides to put his feelings aside and simply put HBK over and leave on good terms?

Here's some discussion questions this could create.

Since Hart does business, there's no need for the 'Bret Screwed Bret' promo from Vince, which opens up his 'Mr. McMahon' character. What if Vince decided to either never be on camera in a heel capacity or comes around in a different time frame?

Does Hart return to the WWE eventually?

Would HBK appreciate the gesture or would his ego get out of control?

Does Austin become as big as he is without this incident?

Discuss.

 

[Harthan]

I think Austin still follows roughly the same trajectory with or without the screwjob. Austin had really already formed the heart and soul of his character in his feud with the Rock and the Nation of Domination after winning the IC title at the Survivor Series 1997 PPV. But more importantly, he had already delivered a Stone Cold Stunner to Mr. McMahon about six weeks prior to that, which was the real birth of the McMahon/Austin feud. Or, perhaps more appropriately, the conception of it. I personally don't believe that Vince ever intended to play as large a role on TV as he did, but had his hand forced by the lack of anyone else to do it.

Consider: shortly after winning the Royal Rumble, Austin starts a feud with Mike Tyson and DX. McMahon is only ever on the periphery of this, really. But after WrestleMania 14 the full extent of HBK's injury becomes clear, and Tyson turns on DX to join Austin. There is literally no one else for Austin to feud with, and McMahon is pretty much the only guy left standing.

I think the Screwjob and "Bret Screwed Bret" helped the audience get into McMahon as a heel in the leadup to the ultimate McMahon/Austin feud, and possibly gave Vince confidence he would draw as a main event level heel. But almost certainly the more critical piece in the rise of Austin to superstardom is Shawn Michael's injury.

I think the more interesting question is this - what if Shawn Michaels never got hurt? Probably DX never turns face, and remains the main antagonist of Austin for most of 1998. Triple H might have risen to the main event in this way, but he might just as easily have stayed in Shawn's shadow for much, much longer. The Rock and the Nation of Domination might have been pushed to a lower role on the card and it's possible the Rock never even becomes Austin's superstar foil, but I think the Rock was probably too absolutely fantastic in all ways to really be held down by any circumstance. I think the WWF might well have taken a very different turn, however, as Shawn's lingering presence at the top would probably have clogged the rise of all those beneath him, and it's well documented that HBK didn't draw very well.

So, Screwjob? Probably not the most critical thing to Austin's rise. But HBK's injury, well, that was probably pretty damn important.

 

[thebarber]

this thread has been dione many times before, and to be honest, WWE is probably not in the place it is now. Vince McMahon overnight became the biggest heel in the wrestling business after Montreal, the fallout would have been so much different. If say the planned finish continues and its a double dq, they have the rematch at In Your House D-Generation X where Hart was going to drop the belt to Michaels, things probably do not change as HBK would still have gone on to fued with Taker and more than likely his back injury happens. If Montreal went down as planned, Bret Hart still leaves WWE for WCW, but I think Bulldog and Owen's lives would have turned out so much different. Bulldog doesnt follow Bret to WCW, and he doesnt destroy his back on the trapdoor in the ring set for Ultimate Warrior. Owen Hart would not have returned to the Blue Blazer gimmick thus would not have been in the rafters at the Kemper Arena. As WWE took off, once Bret's WCW contract expired, Vince would have welcomed Bret back with open arms and probably returns the favour to Austin as Austin in 2001 is the no1 guy in WWE still, Austin vs Hart at Mania 17, or Hart leading the WCW Invasion...well mouth watering to think about. So many different options, but Bret was leaving regardinless. I guess the real question is, where would we be if Vince honoured his contract with Bret Hart. He couldnt afford him but could afford to bring in Mike TYSON weeks after.......Vince was going in a new direction,and Bret clearly wasnt in his immediate plans.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I always saw the Montreal Screw Job as the WWF's Finger Poke of Doom. If anything the Screw Job probably could have done more harm than good for the company. It's just that the pieces were already in place that ushered in the Attitude Era (Shawn Michaels's DX Stable has already started, Bret Hart was leaving the WWF, Austin's popularity was already skyrocketing, and McMahon already had a prominent non announcing role). Where as the aftermath of the Finger Poke of Doom was one stupid decision after another that brought WCW down.

I guess the only difference is that Bret Hart probably would have returned to the WWF or WWE much sooner than 2010.

So in reality the Montreal Screw Job had little impact on the landscape of the Monday Night Wars. Especially since WCW failed to capitalize on the screw job and Bret Hart afterwards.

So yeah it wouldn't have been much different if the screw job happened or not.

 

[salopstick]

If bret and hbk were on good enough terms to trade the title and do the job to each other maybe bret wouldn't have felt he had to leave and both would have stayed in the main event delaying stone cold and the rocks rise to the top.

Every action has a reaction and no Montreal screw job puts wwf and wcw on a different path maybe Owen would still be alive, wwf goes out of business

 

[No Count Pup]

It proved that no single wrestler was bigger than the WWF, or Vince McMahon. If McMahon said you are to drop the title, you are to do so on his terms. What McMahon did was prove to the current fanbase, to its current crop of talent, and to future would-be main eventers that he ran the show. That would be especially true for those on their way out.

Wrestling fans learned that for Vince McMahon, business comes first. If he felt that he had to put over one main eventer at the expense of future rival promotion's main eventer, everything else be damned he was going to do it. Even if McMahon's concerns seemed irrational, he was going to do anything to protect his interests.

Some say Hart had creative control over his character, and thus should not have been subjected to the Survivor Series 1997 finish. If that was the case, why didn't Bret Hart take legal action against McMahon and the WWF for breach of contract? Maybe I'm missing something, but I never heard of a judge ruling on or dismissing a case regarding the finish at Survivor Series 1997. If Hart was hoping that McMahon was going to act on an honor code, Hart should have realized that he lost a lot of moral high ground when he refused to put over HBK at the pay-per-view.

Bret Hart seems like a decent person. But he overplayed his hand and got bit. McMahon would go on later in his executive career to put his foot down against Stone Cold Steve Austin as well, proving once again that McMahon makes the calls. No matter how big the name, when it comes down to business, McMahon will do whatever it takes to protect his interests.

Now, in regards to what would if happened if the Montreal incident didn't occur?

McMahon looks like a weak wrestling promoter who can't control the creative direction of his company. He would have also empowered wrestlers to throwdown ultimatums in critical situations. What made that dubious day in 1997 so significant?

McMahon demonstrated the difference between himself and Eric Bischoff: In the WWF, McMahon ran the ship... in WCW, the wrestlers ran the ship.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

Bret Hart was already leaving WWF, so he would have been expected to drop the belt on the way out. He was keen on the idea of surrendering the belt on Raw. But it would have not been the right thing to do (and I am a huge BH fan).

In response to fanofwrestling, Bret did not sue Vince because if he had done, Vince would have counter-sued for assault (for the punch he got from Bret in the dressing room after). He would have been tied up for years in law suits if he had, and although Bret was wealthy, he did not have the money to fight a monster business like Titan Sports (now WWE).

Bret did not overplay his hand, he came back to WWF in 1996, when he could have gone to WCW and earned a lot more. Out of loyalty to McMahon, he took less money. He then had his character change and turn heel, and then others around him like HBK turned heel, so there was no spot for Bret at that moment. Stone Cold was No#1 face and DX were No#1 heels. Bret found this to be confusing because he was making more money and was the main draw at the time, and he did not know what else to do. And then Vince made Bret go back to WCW, and then under-minded Bret's Character so he could not draw as much in WCW.

That said, even if the screw job did not occur, WCW would have destroyed itself in the end. The biggest memory I have of those days of WCW; the great cruiserweights like Eddie G and Chris Jericho. And the NWO stood in the ring each and every single week saying the same promo.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Every action has a reaction and no Montreal screw job puts wwf and wcw on a different path maybe Owen would still be alive, wwf goes out of business

Bret was already leaving the WWE so Owen probably would have done the stunt regardless. And as I mentioned the pieces that set in motion of the Attitude Era was already there even McMahon started getting involved in story lines was getting booed due to his altercations with Austin.

I don't think the Montreal Screw Job would have done any of that, in fact I do feel people kind of give the Screw Job too much credit and probably would have destroyed the company if it wasn't for the Attitude Era.

Remember a lot of people criticized the WWF of the screw job I still recall articles at the time on how the screw job was an insult to paying fans who wanted to see the hyped Bret Hart/HBK match and how it harmed the prestige of the title.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

As has been highlighted, the question of what would have happened if the screw job had not happened is LESS interesting than the other questions around this time. This really was the hinging period for the Attitude Era, but the Screwjob not happening probably doesn't have as the same effect. Shawn's back still gets destroyed at the Rumble, Austin still becomes the next big thing, HHH, Foley and The Rock still turn up for work the next day.

A question I pose as an offshoot of the Screwjob not happening; What if McMahon had shelled out enough cash for Bret to stay? What happens then?

HBK and Bret were at breaking point anyways, so this would have come to a head sooner or later. But what about every other factor? Bret would not have gotten injured by Goldberg and could have stuck around to wrestle Angle, Benoit, Lesnar and The Rock. Owen might still be alive, because Bret said he wouldn't have allowed Owen to do a stupid stunt like that. You have one more huge star at the top of the food chain, so it might be harder for muscat sets to rise up. The rest of the Hart Foundation might not get thrown under the bus.

I find questions like this way more interesting, because at the end of the day, Bret was leaving whether he got screwed or not. And since he's forgiven everyone and finally gotten his long deserved US title run which we all really really wanted, it was all for naught

 

[JJ15776]

Now, in regards to what would if happened if the Montreal incident didn't occur?

McMahon looks like a weak wrestling promoter who can't control the creative direction of his company. He would have also empowered wrestlers to throwdown ultimatums in critical situations. What made that dubious day in 1997 so significant?

McMahon demonstrated the difference between himself and Eric Bischoff: In the WWF, McMahon ran the ship... in WCW, the wrestlers ran the ship.

See, folks, this is what happens when you only read the title and don't read the original post. The question was based on Bret giving in to Vince, while you answered it based on Vince giving in to Bret.

It's worth noting that this would hardly make Vince look like a weak promoter, nor would it mean that wrestlers ran the ship in WWF. It wouldn't have been the first, nor would it have been the last, time a wrestler got their way in the WWF. Less than two years later, Steve Austin refused to drop the title to Triple H and Vince had to make a three-way title match and give Mankind the title for a day. This kind of stuff happens all the time. The difference between Vince and Eric is much more massive than that. Eric let wrestlers run the ship and gave into them on a daily basis. McMahon ran the ship and gave into the wrestlers when he knew he had to.

So what would happen if there was no screwjob? Very little changes, to be honest. Vince still would have ultimately developed the Mr. McMahon character, HBK still hurts his back, Austin still becomes The Man...the only change is that Bret comes back to the WWE sooner after the buyout. But he still would have had the concussion and stroke that rendered him unable to wrestle. If you believe that Owen Hart was made to be the Blue Blazer as punishment for Bret screwing himself, then obviously one major change is that he's still alive if Bret gives in(but not if Vince had to give in, he still would have punished Owen), but I doubt that's the case. He was still being used a lot, and in a mostly favorable fashion, for somebody who was supposedly being punished.

There is one possible, though unlikely, major shift if Vince gives in to Bret. Supposedly, one of the options on the table was that Bret drops the title to Ken Shamrock the next month at the D-X PPV. If that happens...does Ken Shamrock face HBK at the Royal Rumble for the title? If so, HBK isn't facing The Undertaker, which means he's not in a casket match, which means he doesn't hurt his back...and that would certainly change the course of history. But, again, that's unlikely. Bret probably would've dropped the title to HBK at the D-X PPV and things would've played out the same.

 

[EastCoastFan]

Bret would have still gone to WCW, and his arrival came right before a lot of the top guys' contracts came up for renewal, and those guys demanded more money to stay on par with the $3 million a year Bret was getting. So WCW would have still hemmoraged red ink and still would have gone out of business.

Given that many feel Bret was never used properly in WCW (including Bret himself), if Montreal had never happened, Bret probably would have found a way out of his WCW contract and gone back to WWF to close out his career, which means Owen's death and the concussion that ended Bret's career (and most likely led to the stroke he had in 2001) might not have happened.

If Montreal had never happened, Davey Boy Smith probably wouldn't have up and left in protest and gone in WCW, which means he wouldn't have suffered the back injury he had in 1998 and might not have gotten so hooked on painkillers, so he might still be with us if Montreal never happened.

The WWF would have pretty much remained the same. Steve Austin would have still ascended to main event status and Shawn Michaels would have still had to retire in 1998 due to his back injury. Vince would have found another way to introduce "Mr. McMahon". At that time, so many wrestlers were jumping ship to WCW that Vince allegedly became an on-screen character because he knew HE would never leave.

 

[crippler]

All these what if threads are pointless the truth is we all have opinions what would have happened and what wouldn't have but reality is nobody really knows. It happened its done now it was 16 years ago whether or not the screwjob happened Bret signed with WCW Bret and Vince were not happy with each other with what happened before the screw job he might have come back or he might have not but it happened nobody knows except Bret and Vince together if it would have happened. Please stop posting these what if's they are pointless.

 

[Kliq69]

The Montreal Screwjob's biggest lasting impact was it tore away the little bit of kayfabe that was still in existence.

Had Bret done the right thing and laid down for Shawn, I don't think much would have changed.

Shawn was destined for the Taker match since SummerSlam. He still hurts his back.

Bret was still leaving for WCW, although his debut would have been different as he would have had zero reason for getting involved in the Sting/Hogan match. WCW would have still had no idea how to use him and he'd go to ground.

Vince was already building up to his Mr. McMahon character. Austin had already stunned him, he was mentioned more and more as an authority figure despite Sarge being the commissioner at the time. Not needing to do the Bret screwed Bret promo might have delayed it, but it wouldn't have stopped it.

HBK wouldn't have appreciated the gesture, (then) and it wouldn't have changed his attitude. Even if he had, he only had two more months until his injury and one more match after that, so any impact on him wouldn't have been a long term impact.

Now, there is one area where a change could have been felt. In late 98/ early 99, WCW was bleeding money. Had Bret been welcomed back with open arms, he might have been willing to get out of his WCW contract early and go back home. He was miserable in WCW, and I think he would have gladly given up the extra cash to go back to where he was appreciated. Had that happened, Owen doesn't die, Benoit doesn't have his two great matches with Hart that show he's capable of being a near the top guy. The title belt isn't vacant in January of 00, Benoit (because of the lack of Hart matches) isn't viewed as a worthy contender and doesn't get the belt. He has zero leverage, along with the other radicals, so they don't jump ship.

I think WCW still goes under, although at a slightly later date (1-2 years later). Being later, Hogan/Hall/Nash/Goldberg/Flair/Sting etc have all had their contracts expire and could appear during the "invasion" angle. With that kind of star power on the WCW side, there is no reason for any ECW involvement (it would have closed at the same time as t originally had) and no reason for Austin or Angle to jump to their side.

You would have had Hogan/Sting/Flair/Hall/Nash/Goldberg/Benoit/Eddie being the top part of a strong group going up against Austin/HHH/Rock/Bret/HBK/Angle/Jericho. The mid-card and jobbers would have been better, no Kronik vs BOD, could have had the Outsiders vs BOD. Benoit could have been what Storm was trying to be.

The biggest possible impact of Bret doing the right thing, was WCW could have lasted a bit longer had he left WCW early to return "home" and the Invasion would have been much bigger. Other than that, not that much would have changed over the long-haul. I think the much larger "butterfly effect" happened a month later. Had Sting beaten Hogan cleanly (as the storyline arc called for), Outsiders kick out Hogan, Hogan/Sting take on the nWo and vanquish it in 98. WCW's entire history changed at the point and in all honesty, wrestling history could have changed. Without the dragging nWo storyline and lack of any other big things in WCW during 98 (goldberg aside), they might have kept a little closer in the ratings and AOL/TW wouldn't have felt it necessary to kill it as soon as they did.

 

[closet_fan]

The fact that Bret was leaving for WCW anyway kind of makes this question a moot point. Austin was already starting to head upwards. McMahon's character was already in motion.

Bret still would have hated WCW, but he wouldn't have wanted to come back to the WWF anyway because he hated what it had turned into with all the sex, violence, etc.

 

[theHeadliner]

Vince started going on camera early in the fall, he was stunned in September if I recall and he had segments with Austin often that whole season and his tone got darker each time. I think that idea would have eventually came out because Vince always wanted to play a character like that, and he wanted to do kind of what Bischoff was doing as the crooked promoter. Bret would have returned a lot sooner, though I don't know how soon because after Owen died in the fashion he did he probably wouldn't have wanted to step foot in the WWF ring anytime soon so he probably would have still wrestled Goldberg.

This could go back even further to say: What if Bret decided to do business at the time he was offered that WCW contract and opted not to sign and stay since he was going to put Michaels over anyways?

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Assuming Bret puts over Shawn and still leaves the company....

...Austin was already the rising star in the company and well on his way to win the Rumble and the title at Mania.

...The Rock was already a rising star in the company, entrenched firmly at the centre of the midcard and soon to have nice long run as Intercontinental champion and become the leader of the Nation.

...Bret Hart, in my opinion, had already made the Mr McMahon character. Shoving him at ringside, spitting on him, going on a profanity laced tirade on RAW. Bret had already "outed" Vince, the commentator as the owner of the company. He just wasn't evil yet. Perhaps it takes him longer to develop the "I'm Vince McMahon damnit!" swagger... But a couple stunners from Austin still probably takes it down this path.

...Shawn Michaels is still the champion at the Royal Rumble. Is he facing Owen instead of Undertaker? Does he still injure his back? Maybe he goes over Owen and sticks around a little longer. However his drug abuse and ego were still out of control at this point. Maybe Vince screws Shawn for not doing business later down the line? Maybe he gets injured a different way. Maybe his drug use forces him to take a break regardless.

Basically, I don't think much changes. And I don't think Owen was punished into doing the Blue Blazer gimmick because of Bret. That was longer than a year after the screwjob. He had been pushed as a babyface "Black Hart" and then pushed again as a member of the Nation. He then feuded with Shamrock and Steve Blackman. They did a lot with him before the Jeff Jarrett stuff and eventual return of the Blue Blazer.

 

[Wald]

Honestly I don't think a whole lot changes for most if Bret does the job and goes to WCW. But looking at the principal players:

Vince McMahon: People act like Vince McMahon was still the babyface announcer up until the Screwjob all the time, in reality he had been outed as the boss by Kevin Nash in early 1996, already had an in-ring conflict with Bret in late 1996 and already had words with Austin following Summerslam 1997 to set them up as rivals. I think the Mr.McMahon character was already in the pipeline, the Screwjob just gave it a tonne of heat to start with. I till think a feud with Austin would have got in majorly over anyway.

Shawn Michaels: Michaels is still a heel, still fights Taker and still gets hurt and goes into retirement.

Steve Austin: Had already been earmarked as the next Number One guy in the company by this time, he still beats HBK for the belt and I think he still goes up against Vince McMahon, the Rock etc. So nothing really changes except he is the catalyst for the Mr.McMahon character getting over, not Bret.

Bret Hart: I think he is the only one where something changes. In his book he talks about how he wanted to retire around 2000 or shortly after anyway, or at least take a part time role. I think Bret goes to WCW in 1997 anyway, works his three year deal to 2000 and comes back to the WWF for a 2-3 year run to end out his career. Leaving in 2000 means there isn't a Goldberg match so no stroke and he's able to do it. The big If here is if he would be willing to come back after Owen died in 1999. I think he does as I don't think he really blamed Vince for what happened there, I think he did at the time but that that was borne out of the anger he felt at him for Montreal.

So the only change is Bret comes back in 2000 for a goodbye run against the likes of Angle, Benoit, Jericho and maybe even one more match with Austin and a returning Shawn Michaels in 2002. In short, we get a lot more great matches out of Bret and he gets a proper send off in 2002/03.