What if it was Kurt???

[Christian Battlez]

Alot of people think Triple H will be the one to break the legendary streak of 16 world championships held by Ric Flair. Some people even think it will be Edge. But what if it was Kurt Angle?? He is already at 12. If he does it in TNA though will it mean as much? If any wrestler breaks a major recore in a promotion as small as TNA where not as many people will be able to see it will it mean as much. Also would WWE recognize it when Triple H reaches 17 if Kurt beat him to it.Discuss.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Kind of interesting topic.

Now, I'm definitely not one to discredit Kurt Angle. He's been a fixture at the very top of my top 100 list for a year or so now. However, what titles are we counting here? Are we counting the IWGP one? I don't know if that should really count. I'll gladly count the TNA reigns - whatever people say, that's a real world title and Kurt defended it against world class opponents.

Will Kurt get to seventeen reigns in TNA? Even making allowances for the weird reigns, I don't think so. Oddly, the belt in TNA is kept on champions longer than its WWE counterparts, yet somehow seems to have less prestige. Probably because Sting is shit.

Would the WWE recognize it? You're kidding, right? The only possible way they would is if Angle returned to WWE, won some more belts, TNA quietly died, Stephanie divorced Triple H after he beat Vince to death and Stephanie adopted Kurt as her new and improved "genetic jackhammer". Maybe not even then.

 

[Miko]

If TNA continue this upward trend they are supposedly on (I dont know, haven't kept up to date really) then they'd be big enough one day to say "Kurt Angle is a 17 time World Champion" and people would accept and it and care, Flairs record is broken.

Unless TNA reach that kind of level then it would be like Ric Flair's 16 reigns before he came back to WWE and joined Evolution, not many people would know or care. So yes, I would say it's possible for Kurt Angle to be the one to exceed Flair's title reigns, right after HHH does it of course. Then both companies would keep slapping the belts on Kurt and Trips in an effort to be the company with the with the record World Title holder in it.

 

[hinkey1]

I don't understand why TNA is counting Kurt's gold medal win as a "World Championship", its a little unnecessary. He won 6 world titles in WWE, 2 in TNA, 1 in PPW, and the IWGP which gives him 10. What wrong with 10? They aren't fooling anyone by saying he's a 12 time world champion.

But to answer the topic question, no WWE will not recognize Kurt's accomplishment, unless he returned to WWE. That would actually be a good storyline if Kurt were to ever return. Triple H could have just broken Ric Flair's record and claimed he's the greatest. Then Angle comes out and says "Bullshit!! I am a 20 time world champion, your not the best!":

WHO TRULY IS THE GREATEST WORLD CHAMPION OF ALL TIME?? KURT ANGLE AND HHH WILL FACE OFF AT WRESTLEMANIA FOR COMPLETE AND TOTAL SUPREMACY IN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING!

But this of course will never happen.

 

[mauihaole69]

If Kurt Angle starts to close in on 17 and TNA starts hyping it, then I would expect the WWE to start giving HHH title reigns left and right to make sure he gets there before Angle. That is of course if the 17 world title reigns is something the WWE/HHH really care that much about.

 

[futuredraftpick3]

I think that you are right, if Kurt came back and TNA died away it would be fine. We have evidence of them recognizing old companies championships, Booker T loved to say he was the 5 Time 5 Time 5 Time 5 Time 5 Time WCW champion.

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

I dont think the WWE would recongize his title reigns in tna....here's an example have they mentioned any of christan's tna title reigns no.....only way is if tna gets as big as wcw was then dies off like wcw and i doubt that.

 

[midgensa]

As mentioned here before ... Kurt does not have 12 World Championships ... but some are still off ... he does not have 10 either.
It is simple ... PWI is the end all be all of World Title reigns and under PWI ... Kurt has 8 World Titles ... nowhere near the 12 that TNA pimps him for. He is just as close to Flair as Edge is.
I think Triple H WILL NOT pass Flair personally and may end up with only 16 or even one short at 15 ... I do think that John Cena has a really good shot since he is so young and already at 4 and will be at the top forever. And obviously Edge with his 8 (even though for only a total of 361 days) has a shot. Maybe even Orton (with his 3 and his youth).
I would say that Edge has the edge in all honesty since he still has a lot of years left and already has 8 reigns. Angle's 8 is just too far away for a guy who is getting up there in age (older than Triple H) and has been dinged up numerous times.

 

[y2empleh]

Here is the problem with the whole "world championships" amount. What world championships count? do tag team championships count? do world championships from indy wrestling organizations count? do amateur wrestling championships count? how about japanese, european or other country championships?

Midgensa also brought up a good point when she mentioned the total amount of days of Edge's reigns. Why is it that total reigns and not total number of days is more important?? Wrestling isn't like most sports where the world champion is only crowned at a season ending event. It's a year long switch.

 

[Rated R SuperFan]

WWE really can't say anythign if Kurt Angle becomes a 17 time World CHampion while in TNA because TNA does have World Championship Status so if he were to reach 16 or even 17 he would brake "Nature Boy" Ric Flair's record . I hate to say that becasue I love and respect Flair so much I think that is a record that should be left alone period . but IF anyone breaks the record I expect it'll be Triple H and VInce would want it to be someone in WWE to get there first and due to the relationship Triple H and Flair have I think Flair would give his blessing to Vince to see Triple H break his record . Fliar may or may not have a say in it when the time comes but out of respect for him Vince should consider giving the record to someone Flair respects .

 

[tnaistherevolution]

ok. kurt is too old to break the reign off ric flair maybe trips can do maybe not but back to angle. in my opinion a world title means the main title of a promotion (or 2 in wwe's case).for me personally its nine reigns because ppl forget he won the wcw title when the invasion happened and that makes 9 title reigns cause ppw does not have a true world title like tna iwgp wcw nwa or wwe. heres a list of world titles he's won as listed on wikipedia (i know alota ppl hate the site but it has good info)

IWGP Third Belt Championship (1 time)

TNA World Heavyweight Championship (2 times)

WCW World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)

World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)

WWF/E Championship (4 times)

dont beleive me look it up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Angle

yah and if you include ppw its 10 (I dont tho)

 

[farlance]

That IWGP 3rd belt shouldnt count either, that got created when Brock Lesnar got stripped, there were only 3 holders total, and it got unified again when Kurt lost it. Its a joke that Kurt Angle claims 12 champion reigns, i think it was just to match HHH at the time. I was disgusted when they first started saying that, like who the hell do they think there fooling. Id rather see them have him gain it and loose it 4 times real quick than make those bogus claims.

 

[NDN Souljaa]

First off, I wanna just say I hope its Kurt. Better him than some other person, for the solefact that he actually WAS a legit wrestler and when the media starts ragging on "rasslin" we can be like..hey...olympic champion won the most. okay it may not be that simple, but you guys know where im getting at..

and for all the people that say Kurt is so old blah blah..hes only a year older than HHH. Flair was 41 or 42 when he first stepped inside of a WWE ring. And we all know he went on to hold the WWE and WCW titles a bunch of times afterwards. So no one can really tell whats gna happen.

In anycase, I really dont think either Kurt or Edge have a chance to break it though. With Joe and AJ im not sure how hes gna squeeze in 7-9 more title reigns. Does anyone know when his contract with TNA runs out? cuz that'll make things interesting because in a couple years, it could be HHH and Kurt both vying for it in the same company. And Vince knows whats good for business and he wont have a problem rehiring/putting the strap on angle. and as far as edge goes, hes gna be 36 this year so hes no spring chicken either and i just feel that hes not gna be the face that WWE want the marks of the wrestling community to acknowledge as the "greatest ever." I dont think Cena will make it either because chances are, hes going to have a lot of lengthy reigns and that will stop him from racking up the number of times he wins the belt. But we still cant tell about Orton. Him messing up his shoulder and collarbone and stuff isnt helping..and with Cena always lurking around it may get tough.

But also, keep in mind that I do believe that the WWE will NOT acknowledge Angle's TNA reigns becuase when angle won them, TNA's contract with the NWA's belt ran out. And while the NWA title is widely recognized as a real title (I believe most of flair's are from there), TNA's belt... is nothing special in their eyes. It's like calling Jack Swagger a world champion.

 

[Christian Battlez]

Now, I'm definitely not one to discredit Kurt Angle. He's been a fixture at the very top of my top 100 list for a year or so now. However, what titles are we counting here? Are we counting the IWGP one? I don't know if that should really count. I'll gladly count the TNA reigns - whatever people say, that's a real world title and Kurt defended it against world class opponents.

The TNA reigns for sure count. PWI Magazine is the leading source for these things and the TNA title has had world title status its entire existence. Whether or not the IWGP title reign counts is another discussion for another time.

Will Kurt get to seventeen reigns in TNA? Even making allowances for the weird reigns, I don't think so. Oddly, the belt in TNA is kept on champions longer than its WWE counterparts, yet somehow seems to have less prestige. Probably because Stingis shit.

That's a good point about the length of reigns in TNA being longer than in WWE. Also while Sting may not be the same competitor he once was he still has the ability to ignite a crowd. The again TNA fans will cheer for anyone.

Would the WWE recognize it? You're kidding, right? The only possible way they would is if Angle returned to WWE, won some more belts, TNA quietly died, Stephanie divorced Triple H after he beat Vince to death and Stephanie adopted Kurt as her new and improved "genetic jackhammer". Maybe not even then.

I know they wouldn't actually recognize it it was more of a hypothetical thing. They'd probably go about their buisiness once HHH broke the record as if Angle never broke it. Which is unfair. LMAO at the end of that.

 

[johnnygoround360]

[QUOTE="The Hardcore Legend" Christian Battlez;902342]The TNA reigns for sure count. PWI Magazine is the leading source for these things and the TNA title has had world title status its entire existence. Whether or not the IWGP title reign counts is another discussion for another time.


Er... that's if every wrestling promotions actually acknowledges that PWI. Honestly, there's really no official universally accepted method to determine what constitutes a world title, so there is no way to determine who truly has world title status. I think the only way WWE would acknowledge TNA World Title reigns would be if TNA was bought by WWE. Other than that, I don't think anyone else would acknowledge those reigns. Look at R-Truth, his reign as NWA World Heavyweight Champion was not acknowledge, nor was Christian's.

 

[Christian Battlez]

[QUOTE="The Hardcore Legend" Christian Battlez;902342]The TNA reigns for sure count. PWI Magazine is the leading source for these things and the TNA title has had world title status its entire existence. Whether or not the IWGP title reign counts is another discussion for another time.


Er... that's if every wrestling promotions actually acknowledges that PWI. Honestly, there's really no official universally accepted method to determine what constitutes a world title, so there is no way to determine who truly has world title status. I think the only way WWE would acknowledge TNA World Title reigns would be if TNA was bought by WWE. Other than that, I don't think anyone else would acknowledge those reigns. Look at R-Truth, his reign as NWA World Heavyweight Champion was not acknowledge, nor was Christian's.

I didn't say WWE would acknowledge them. In fact if you read my whole post you would know that I said they wouldn't acknowledge them. I'm just saying that R-Truth and Christian are indeed both former world champions because pro wrestling companys all over the world use the universally respected method of PWI's championship status to determine whether or not a title is legitimate enough to be considered a WORLD championship. Whether or not WWE recognizes it is irrelevant.

 

[johnnygoround360]

Eh? I said that's if every promotions follows that. Just because pro-wrestling companies all over the world use PWI to determine whether or not a title is a legitimate world title, doesn't mean that once PWI recognizes it, then i'll automatically become a world title.

As far as my comment on whether WWE would recognize TNA World Title reigns, I was giving an example of PWI not being recognized, or is it legitimate just because all these other companies use it.

"The TNA reigns for sure count. PWI Magazine is the leading source for these things and the TNA title has had world title status its entire existence."


Remember when WCW was still around and it was owned by Ted Turner? Faarooq wasn't even recognized as a former world champion until after he returned to television with only one word; "Damn"... because if PWI is really legit, then the TNA Heavyweight Title shouldn't have been considered a world title. I mean, when did ECW get its world title status? 1999? This was 5 years after Shane Douglas threw down the NWA World title and called the ECW title a "World Heavyweight Championship".

I'm just saying.

 

[Shadowmancer]

There is one way to determine a world championship belt, it must be defended on three different continents.

 

[johnnygoround360]

lol so that means the ECW Title is a legitimate world title, then

It has been defended in Europe, North America, and South America. (3 continents).

I rest my case.

 

[suleman09]

triple h will break the record, and i think Edge will too

if kurt breaks it on TNA, WWE will then make it happen

 

[Mark0820]

For the record, IWGP isn't recognized by PWI as a world title. Going by PWI, Angle is an 8 time world champ, not 12. PWI also recognizes the ECW title as a world title.

 

[Tastycles]

If anyone is going to reach Flair's total before Triple H, it's Edge, but I have said elsewhere why I think that isn't going to happen. Kurt Angle is only an 8 time world champion as most companies and independent puclications would see it.

The thing is is that TNA like to spread title reigns around - Team 3D have only won one tag title the whole time they've been there. This means that Kurt would have to win 9 titles, in what is likely going to be a career of 5 more years at the absolute maximum.

If he had won 12+ legitimately, then TNA would make it happen, but in this instance, they won't.

 

[kingofmyworld]

WWE will not acknowledge this if it were to happen because Kurt only has 8 World Title reigns. The only World Titles in the wrestling world currently are the WWE Title, The World Heavyweight Title, and the TNA Heavyweight Championship. The other thing about the whole world title record is what will it matter when and if it is broke.

Nothing against Triple H but he is currently second to Flair with 13 reigns, but what are those reigns really worth? HHH has held 13 world titles all from the same organization and held those for 1,105 days, while Flair held 16 World Titles from WWE, WCW, and the NWA (which is the original World Heavyweight Title and also the original incarnate of the WCW heavyweight title.) for 3,500 days which is something to talk about. So Flair had 3 more World Titles reigns but held those titles for a total of 2,400 days (More than 2 times the total length of Triple H's reigns.)

The problem with the World Title record especially in WWE is that the title changes hands so often that it wouldn't be that surprising for one of the top-tier talents in WWE such as HHH to have 3 or 4 World Title reigns a year. This diminished the record somewhat because it took Flair around 30 years to put together them 16 title reigns although most of them came within Flair first 20 or so years in the business that still double HHH's current tenure in the business. So when the record does get broken and it will be HHH because theres no way he doesn't get 3 more title reigns in WWE it will be mentioned and made known in WWE, but the real question is what will the record mean to us the fans and the rest of the wrestling world.

 

[quink987]

see even if triple h or edge break ric flairs record they have'nt held them as long as ric flair.ric flair was a true champion look how long he held each title for triple h and edge are once a month champions maybe 2-3 if thair lucky but ric flair was champion for months on end but what makes kurt angle different from hhh and edge he is the best pure wrestler today so when he is champ you beleave he should be champ so if someone should break it it should be kurt angle but if triple h breaks it you will think ok 17 time world champion but how long was each reign same with edge if he breaks it everyone who knows the inside and out of wrestling will call him a shit champion cause he was champion for a month for 3 weeks it just shows he cant hold on to the title but kurt angle if he breaks it everyone will think great matches with who ever he works with did'nt have as long title reigns as ric flair but his matches was good

 

[EVAN BOURNE=WWE Ledgend]

Personally, I don't think that Kurt Angle will even beat the 16 mark for title reigns. This is because of 2 reasons. For one he is 40 years old and only has (argueably) 10 reigns. That means he has 7 to go. He is already speculating retiremnt so it is doubtful that this goal will be accompolished in such a short amount of time. The other reason is that TNA has longer reigns than wwe, therefore it could take 4 years to do this if he is lucky. It is not like he can go back to the wwe to set the record, because they wouldn't allow him to pass flair.

If angle was able to beat flair, i believe that tna would gloat and gloat on this, but wwe wouldn't aknowledge it. THey might make snarky comments on it if tna got really popular. But i still doubt that he will win it.

If there is anybody who has a chance at it, it is either edge or randy orton. Orton is only 28 and has 3 titles. If he goes until he is 42, then that means he just needs one title reign every year to beat flair. With edge, he is alraedy at 8 but is 35. If he retires at 41 he only needs 9 reigns in 6 years , which is possible for the ultimate oppritunist.

Those are my thoughts on the situation