WCW Rise and Fall; And what could have been

[Golden Standard]

I think this will be a good discussion thread to talk about the rise and fall and what could have been of wCW and what they should have done and could have to stayed on top and be around still today. I think that if the older stars would have pushed the young talent, and if the stars didn;t have so much control on what be going on backstage and you didn't have poor guys like Russo not to mention Turner selling wcw over to aol time warner, wcw would still be here today. Now that was the fall. The rise was when them older guys came over to wCw and because of slumping wwe brought in ratings and a stable called NWO.


Now this is the what could have been.Bishoff wanted to take control over wcw at the end but aol time warner did not want wrestling on their network so bye bye wCw. Now i'm sure Bishoff could have found another network like USA and NBC to have their wCW shows on. WWE was not on USA and NBC anymore at the time and with the older guys retiring, they could have started a new era with the younger guys and in a few years like now be back on top as you see wwe now slumping again, they would proably have been in the same way and wCW just like in the 90s would be back on top.

Now wwe fearing wCW would put them out of buisness again would shape up like they are kinda doing now and be good again like in the attitude era and again we have the attitude era 2.0. Not like the attitude era but you know what i mean here.

Now let the discussion and good debating began!

 

[Monkey_Mania]

It's been well documented that no matter what people think it was the share holders and higher ups that caused the downfall of WCW. Although Im sure that the creative team helped a bit. Bischoff was so close to signing a deal to own WCW. The only thing holding him back was not getting a TV deal. As we all know no TV deal means no real shot at anything in the wrestling business.

If Bischoff could've secured a TV deal I would have to say that WCW would still be in the business today. Would they still be competin with McMahon? I would like to think so. Its kind of hard to tell. They wouldve had to do something really huge to get out of the slump they were in. The new relaunch wouldve been pretty huge but probably would have fizzled out in the long run.

So in short they would probably still be in business, but would be competing with TNA (If there was a TNA) rather than WWE as WWE would have crushed them.

 

[Golden Standard]

Well why couldn't Bishoff like i said get a deal with USA network as wwe was not with them no more at the time they was with spike television. And with the young talent they had at the time and all the error mistakes they would have learned from their dreadful mistakes and do shit the right way so yeah they would have struggled at first but eventually get back on track and be competive to wwe.

Their would be no tna if wcw was still around so that means the stars tna have would have ended up in wcw including Angle. And even though wcw was bad they were still popular and way better then tna and got way better ratings, and they still got decent ratings them damn selfs they got the ratings wwe getting now so that was solid. And lke i said with the young talent they had and with guys who are in tna going their, cause if wcw was still around their would be no tna, and learning from their mistakes wcw in the long run would have been greta and back on track.

Thats what i think.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

It was several things that made WCw go down the pan.

Lack of pushes, workers not willing to job(Hogan and Nash, im looking at you), workers not giving a shit in the ring, bad booking(hi Russo!), killing off star power (Flair, Hart and Goldberg), repetive people at the top, lack of advertisers willing to invest in tv time, overuse of celebrities.

Hell, just read the Death of WCW by RD Reynolds, sums up how stupid WCW was in the end.

And it doesnt end there. The WWe have acted a few times like WCW in the past few years, its only really now you have a brand built around the youngsters(well not youngsters, more new faces)

 

[Davi323]

I am not convinced that Bischoff would have been able to keep WCW afloat, even with a TV deal. WCW's roster was filled with guys used to making millions a year. Who paid for those salaries? Well, Time Warner did. Eric Bischoff no doubt had investors lined up, but no group he could lead to purchase WCW would have had the same financial backing Time Warner did. Basically, there is simply no way a Bischoff owned WCW would have had the same kind of financial resources Time Warner owned WCW did. That means they can't afford to keep Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Flair, Sting, Luger, Savage, etc all at the same time. Their large salaries would forced WCW to make severe cutbacks in order to stay financially afloat. That would mean either cutting the big names, and let the WWE have a free shot at them, cutting all of the younger guys, eliminating the future of WCW, or making signficant changes to Nitro and Thunder to make them less expensive to broadcast. Any of the three would have caused WCW to lose viewers. They would have ended up like TNA is, averaging a 1.0 nielsen rating, a distant memory of a once successful competitor to the WWE.

 

[Golden Standard]

Its not wwe has acted like wcw a few times over the last few years they have acted like wcw over the last few years. Lack of pushing youngsters, same people in the mainevent scene, dumb ass skits, bad booking, ect. But wwe won't go out of buisness like wcw did however.

 

[DC24]

There are several things that killed WCW for one adding the third hour to Nitro which proved to be disastrous and pretty boring you had Juventud Guerra fighting Disco Inferno in the second hour. Thunder was a complete joke to me and getting rid of Clash of the Champions didn't go over to well; what they did Bret Hart and Piper was just wrong; they made Piper beat Hogan with no belt involved and Bret Hart became a midcarder it was a waist.

 

[Kfabe]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL....

How many threads have to be made, and how many times does this have to be repeated before it is left to die ?

WCW never "died," it never "folded," it never "went out of business."

WCW was bought by McMahon and then closed down.... BY HIM.

At the time WCW was in sort of the same position as WWE is right now ie; ratings and lack of creativity. So if WWE is still held in such high regard by blinkered fans, then WCW was still in pretty good shape.
The only reason it is made out that WCW was ruined and could not survive, is because thats how the McMahons (and smarky WWE fans) have brainwashed the forums.
It seems it is now the fashion to join the old "Russo ruined wrestling" brigade and debate about stuff that actually didn't happen (like this thread).

 

[DC24]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL....

How many threads have to be made, and how many times does this have to be repeated before it is left to die ?

WCW never "died," it never "folded," it never "went out of business."

WCW was bought by McMahon and then closed down.... BY HIM.

At the time WCW was in sort of the same position as WWE is right now ie; ratings and lack of creativity. So if WWE is still held in such high regard by blinkered fans, then WCW was still in pretty good shape.
The only reason it is made out that WCW was ruined and could not survive, is because thats how the McMahons (and smarky WWE fans) have brainwashed the forums.
It seems it is now the fashion to join the old "Russo ruined wrestling" brigade and debate about stuff that actually didn't happen (like this thread).

Ok then tell me the last good WCW PPV before Vince bought the company it was probaly 98 or 99. WCW had fell off way before has bought and thats the truth; WWE can do what it does now simply because they have no real competition sorry TNA fans; but reality is WCW had competition and the tools to stay on top but they didn't and just like WWE is now it got real boring.

 

[absent]

WCW's roster was filled with guys used to making millions a year. Who paid for those salaries?

It could have been possible to retain a few of the million dollar guys who draw like Hogan and Nash by setting the company up as a sort of public entity, giving them shares and hense dividends to top up their salary if they drew and made the company was a financial success. Basically the top earners and established draws could part own the company which would also give them an added insentive to work their asses off rather than taking millions of bucks for an easy ride.

 

[Kfabe]

Ok then tell me the last good WCW PPV before Vince bought the company it was probaly 98 or 99.

And your point is? because I'm not sure where your going with that?

WCW had fell off way before has bought and thats the truth;

Yep, I already said that...
They were about the same as WWE is right now. Difference being WWE still makes huge profits.

WWE can do what it does now simply because they have no real competition sorry TNA fans; but reality is WCW had competition and the tools to stay on top but they didn't and just like WWE is now it got real boring.

Agreed, but they were still trading and could have carried on if not for VINCE closing it down...
I hate to repeat myself but all the politics, low ratings, lack of creative etc from WCW doesnt make the slightest difference to whether WCW would still be here. It is all down to one mans choice: McMahon.

 

[DC24]

And your point is? because I'm not sure where your going with that?



Yep, I already said that...
They were about the same as WWE is right now. Difference being WWE still makes huge profits.




Agreed, but they were still trading and could have carried on if not for VINCE closing it down...
I hate to repeat myself but all the politics, low ratings, lack of creative etc from WCW doesnt make the slightest difference to whether WCW would still be here. It is all down to one mans choice: McMahon.

Vince did what he had to do in his perspective by getting rid of the company that almost ruined him so he say fuck the fans. WCW hurt themselves alot more and I'm a fan of both WCW and WWF. As far as my PPV comment WCW last good PPV was problay Starcade 97 or 98 or even Halloween Havoc 98. WWF still gives 1-3 good PPV a year I really couldn't say that WCW at the time.

 

[Davi323]

If WCW hadn't placed itself in a weakened position, Time Warner would not have sold WCW to Vince McMahon. Sorry Kfabe, it did not come down to one man's choice, it came down to the entire Time Warner board of directors, that decided to sell WCW, not Vince McMahon deciding to buy it. They knew full well that once they sold it to McMahon, WCW was gonna be closed down. Vince offered to buy it, but they had to agree to sell it before anything happens. The sale of WCW involved two sides, not just one.

 

[dajack23]

bischoff was ready to take the company therefore making him in full control of it. infact the deal was practically done, however jamie kellner who took over tbs and tnt killed the deal because he didnt want wrestling on his channel. obviously the value of wcw went from being worth $67mil to very little indeed. without tv you really aint got nothing. bisch tried to find other networks but there were none willing. so bisch pulled out which left vince able to buy it since viacom didnt have the issue of having wcw on tv. so vinnie mac bought what was basically left the copyrights and video library. bisch has said that if he had bought wcw he would have took it off tele s seeing as it had been damaged then relaunched it and changed everything. he says he wouldnt have done houses and wcw would have been live each week from the same location just like tna and the "impact zone" bisch said it would have been from the hard rock cafe in vegas, he wanted to build a small arena on the top of the parking decks as he wanted to cut down on tv production costs for the first 12 - 18 months. its in his book controversy creates cash which is an excellent read for any wrestling fan.

 

[Wisoid]

It would have been interesting to see if Bischoff could have brought WCW back from the brink.

One of the main reason's WCW died was the ridiculous contracts they gave to guys like Hogan, Luger, Hall, Nash and Sting. They really couldn't promote new talent when they were being forced to pay through the roof for those older guys.

Despite this during 1998 they had probably the greatest Midcard roster ever. Guys like Jericho, Benoit, Saturn, Guerrero, Mysterio, Booker T, Malenko, Raven, Kanyon and Kidman.

Can you imagine what the woeful New Blood angle would have been like with that roster? It could have been one of the best angles of the last ten years.

Instead of pushing these guys though they just kept using the same guys they'd been using for years, guys who were mostly in their early 40's by 1999. They'd even purchase new talent like Bam Bam Bigelow and Sid and proceed to give them immediate pushes over the guys that really deserved it. Hence the mid card talent started to shrink. GUys like Jericho and the Radicalz just up and left for better things. When this happened WCW really lost it's backbone and frankly it's future as it was stuck in a corner with a roster full of aging overpaid politically powerful guys who didn't like to job. Hence you get bullcrap like the fingerpoke of doom, Halloween Havoc 99 and Bash at the Beach 00.

 

[TJF]

dont forget too in a final year or so of WCW they had alot of under/mid card talent that they prob couldnt afford to pay anymore due to having to pay guys like Hogan, Nash, and Sting millions to stick around.

alot of guys in this thread said it alreadly too, lack of pushes. Since theres no reward for hard work no one is going to try for it, which makes for crappy tv. And like you said the older guys didnt want to put any of the younger guys over,. Plus i think by the end people were tired of seeing the same thing in and out, like the millionares club was the NWO all over agin.

 

[proweeks]

I think what really, TRULY, started the downhill slide of WCW started the week after Nitro 1st lost the ratins war (March 23, 1998), Eric simply put panicked and started doing stupid things, people say it was because of all the stupid skits they started doing and having less wrestling, others say it couldnt be that because WWE was doing the same thing and they were killing the ratings, well the answer is simple, Eric once he lost the ratings for the 1st time to Raw panicked and just tried to copy Raw but the way he did his skits was just all wrong and couldnt hold up on the entertainment level that Raw did.


but yeah if Eric just kept doing what he always did, instead of panicking after they 1st lost the ratings war, i dont think that the downhill slide ever would have started


another thing people say is how he didnt push the mid carders and it was the same people main eventing and the same people starting and midcarding for years straight, well the problem was word finally got to bischoff and yes ill say it again he panicked and started pushing the wrong people, started pushing people too soon, starting pushing them for all the wrong reasons, and starting hiring people who didnt need hired, he should have done a Sting/Flair deal where he put someone in there to have a hell of a match with Flair or Hogan, but no he tried to put people over by simply having them win the match, it didnt matter if they got their ass kicked and then won by cheating, nope just as long as they won, ala Hogan and Billy Kidman


so simply put ill say it again
if Eric just kept doing what he always did, instead of panicking after they 1st lost the ratings war, i dont think that the downhill slide ever would have started

 

[Upgrayedd]

Even though like someone already pointed out that it probably wouldn't have mattered what they did since the "higher ups" never wanted anything to do with them and it made it much easier to get rid of them when AOL/Time Warner merged reducing the amount of power that Ted Turner had. But I think they could have done a lot of things differently to still continue their success and keep up with RAW in 1999/2000.

The first and obvious thing is that they blew it with Sting/Hogan at Starrcade '97. There should have been no "fast count" or Bret Hart coming out and re-starting the match. Sting should have gotten the clean win over Hogan and had a long reign with the title. I think the nWo should have split up for a while with Hogan taking a break. Then they swerve everyone and get back together only without Hogan. It would be Bret Hart as the new leader, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Savage, Steiner, etc. Bret Hart would have been the one to beat Sting for the title and then they should have built to a Goldberg/Bret Hart match at Starrcade '98 with Goldberg winning the title.

Bring back Hogan around late '98/'99 and have him turn face. Get rid of the nWo completely by that point. Start pushing the new guys as well. By 1999, Goldberg, Booker T, Scott Steiner, Raven, Kidman, Konnan, Chris Jericho, etc. should have started getting major pushes. Bret Hart, Sting, and even Hogan would still be headlining but working with some of the new guys.

Or say everything went down the way it did at Starrcade and all the way until the summer of 2000 with the whole New Blood storyline. If Russo would have planned things out the right way it could have been the storyline to get WCW back in the "game". Russo comes out and "fires" Hogan at Bash at the Beach, Hall's contract gets "ripped up" by Goldberg and Kevin Nash comes out on Nitro the next night and "quits". The New Blood think that they've won. They have a big celebration at New Blood rising until Hogan, Hall, Nash and DDP are spotted sitting ringside and hop in the ring and beat down the New Blood nWo style. This time the nWo would be the faces. This could have led to a War Games match at Fall Brawl with Hogan, Hall, Nash, Sting & DDP vs. Goldberg, Steiner, Jeff Jarrett, Vampiro and Booker T (though Booker goes face eventually). Bischoff joins the nWo as a face against Russo and the New Blood. Finally they pull another swerve and have Goldberg turn face and say he was with Hogan and them all along and this leads to Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner in the main event at Starrcade 2000. They could have had Hall & Nash feud for the tag team titles, Hogan vs. Jeff Jarrett, Flair & Bischoff vs. Russo & David Flair, etc.

They had so many chances to fix what they messed up at Starrcade '97 but continued to mess up on those chances.