WCW Region, Third Round, Casket Match: (3) Randy Savage vs. (11) Brock Lesnar

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the WCW Region. It is a Casket match, held at Phillips Arena in Atlanta, Georgia.

Rules: A casket is at ringside and the first man to put his opponent in the casket and close the lid wins.

#3. Randy Savage

Vs.

#11. Brock Lesnar

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Blue Chipper]

Randy Savage is a legend in the business and one of the best professional wrestlers ever, but I don't see him faring well here. This match requires a man to be nearly incapacitated, and I don't see Randy Savage, although great, being able to do that to Brock Lesnar. A prime Lesnar, on the other hand, would be able to easily dismantle Savage with his unusual strength and speed, and render Savage lifeless enough to be stuffed in a casket.

It would be a good match, but I only see one outcome.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

At Wrestlemania Seven Savage took on Ultimate Warrior and without going back and watching the match, gave him something like six elbow drops and Warrior was still able to come back and beat Savage into retirement that night.

Now I'm not saying that Warrior and Brock are the same guy, but both are big powerhouses who have been known to no sell. If Warrior could shrug off the Macho Elbow more than once, Brock could as well.

It pains me to say it because as I type this I have on my Macho Man shirt, but Brock wins this match.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I think we are amidst Brock's peak and this beast of a man is being booked as someone you need to do something extraordinary to beat. Savage is a legend and a man that made pro wrestling better going forward.


But Brock takes this, he dismantles Randy and stuffs him in the casket

 

[Bernkastel]

So i'd figured I'd do this right...

Drawing power - Lesnar doesn't draw as a pro wrestler. How could he? He only shows up 4 times a year. And during his first run he wasn't exactly setting the industry on fire while being regulated to the company's B show. Point Savage.

Longevity - One of these men is a part timer, being given the Andre the Giant treatment like it's the 1970's, except he doesn't travel or appear anywhere else. The other was a full time wrestler for several years while still being a very popular star. Point Savage

Consistency - Savage had a terrible run in WCW compared to his WWE run. Lesnar has at least always been treated like the biggest deal possible. He gets the point.

Accolades - Lesnar was toted as unbeatable during his run, but yet he has a DQ loss to Cena, pinned the weakest guy Seth Rollins at the RR, and nearly lost to Roman Reigns. There's nothing different than this run and Goldberg's, except Goldberg required a taser gun to beat. Savage's year long title reign gave us the blow up, and eventual showdown between the Mega Powers. I'll give him the point.

Charisma - Lesnar does have some charisma, even if he can't talk worth shit. But most of it is presence. Savage had that, could talk, could connect with an audience. He could do everything Lesnar does but better. Point Savage.

In ring skills - I like Lesnar. He was one of my favorites during his first run. Most of Lesnar's current matches have been suplex repeat, suplex repeat, suplex repeat. The working style has gotten kinda monotonous. Savage has had many classic matches with a vast variety of different opponents, working different styles. Gotta give Savage the point.

Overall legacy - Lesnar is in the history books for beating the Undertaker at Wrestlemania, but he'll probably always be remembered for that rather than his feuds, title reigns, and other contributions. That should be the cherry on top his career, but instead it will probably be the ice cream. Savage on the other hand will go down as one of the greatest of all time FOR his matches, FOR his rivalries, FOR his title reigns and the character he played.

Lesnar is the 2014 version of 1998's Goldberg. There have been plenty of wrestlers like Lesnar in the past, and there will be plenty in the future. Savage was one of a kind. There will never be another like him again.

Also casket match? All Savage has to do is move out of the way of Lesnar charging him against the ropes, pull it down, and Lesnar flips himself into the casket.

Savage wins.

 

[Tastycles]

Randy Savage is so much better than Lesnar at professional wrestling that the result of this match is probably going to be a big shame. This is so beyond dispute that its not really worth discussing. But lets look at why Savage ought to win in wrestling terms.

Lesnar's record in gimmick, no-DQ matches is patchy, and he hasn't wrestled in many. Lesnar absolutely eviscerated Cena and Triple H in singles matches, but when it came to the Extreme Rules and No Holds Barred matches respectively he lost to both. So what's his weakness?

There's no doubt that he is powerful and strong and capable of running roughshod, but the match against Roman Reigns recently showed his weakness - his big ol' block head. Reigns turned the match around when Lesnar hit his head on the turnbuckle. That's also why the actions of weedy Seth Rollins were able to keep him down. Savage was able to keep the Ultimate Warrior - literally the hardest wrestler to beat in the history of wrestling - down long enough for the relatively smaller name of Sgt. Slaughter to become the WWF Champion.

I have come and grown to respect Lesnar, but I truly believe that Savage would beat him here.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

So i'd figured I'd do this right...

Drawing power - Lesnar doesn't draw as a pro wrestler. How could he? He only shows up 4 times a year. And during his first run he wasn't exactly setting the industry on fire while being regulated to the company's B show. Point Savage.

Longevity - One of these men is a part timer, being given the Andre the Giant treatment like it's the 1970's, except he doesn't travel or appear anywhere else. The other was a full time wrestler for several years while still being a very popular star. Point Savage

Consistency - Savage had a terrible run in WCW compared to his WWE run. Lesnar has at least always been treated like the biggest deal possible. He gets the point.

Accolades - Lesnar was toted as unbeatable during his run, but yet he has a DQ loss to Cena, pinned the weakest guy Seth Rollins at the RR, and nearly lost to Roman Reigns. There's nothing different than this run and Goldberg's, except Goldberg required a taser gun to beat. Savage's year long title reign gave us the blow up, and eventual showdown between the Mega Powers. I'll give him the point.

Charisma - Lesnar does have some charisma, even if he can't talk worth shit. But most of it is presence. Savage had that, could talk, could connect with an audience. He could do everything Lesnar does but better. Point Savage.

In ring skills - I like Lesnar. He was one of my favorites during his first run. Most of Lesnar's current matches have been suplex repeat, suplex repeat, suplex repeat. The working style has gotten kinda monotonous. Savage has had many classic matches with a vast variety of different opponents, working different styles. Gotta give Savage the point.

Overall legacy - Lesnar is in the history books for beating the Undertaker at Wrestlemania, but he'll probably always be remembered for that rather than his feuds, title reigns, and other contributions. That should be the cherry on top his career, but instead it will probably be the ice cream. Savage on the other hand will go down as one of the greatest of all time FOR his matches, FOR his rivalries, FOR his title reigns and the character he played.

Lesnar is the 2014 version of 1998's Goldberg. There have been plenty of wrestlers like Lesnar in the past, and there will be plenty in the future. Savage was one of a kind. There will never be another like him again.

Also casket match? All Savage has to do is move out of the way of Lesnar charging him against the ropes, pull it down, and Lesnar flips himself into the casket.

Savage wins.

I have highlighted a few things to discuss here:

Lesnar's charisma is very VERY different from that of Savage. You're right when you say presence but his presence has become amazing in the last year. Savage was a blessed peacock and had a very cool, colorful, entertaining persona. Brock's charisma is bringing that big fight feel. I'd almost put it up there but in a different dimension.

Brock's biggest accomplishment shall always be beating The Streak. There is no title win that will ever come close to that. He is a KOTR winner RR winner, Mania Headliner twice now and someone who has become a marquee; but The Streak is the cherry for sure.

I don't think Brock is like Goldberg 98. Goldberg 98 was all about the streak, this man is about hurting you. I mean as Heyman says either he will maul you (also may I remind that Brock F5ed Roman and could have pinned him right before Seth came bolting out) or he will just Ronda Rousey yar ass. which is probably similar to Goldberg 98. Brock 14-15 is different

 

[Uncle Sam]

There was a Randy Savage versus Brock Lesnar match in this tournament about three years ago. I wrote about it. It wasn't a casket match and this was actually before Lesnar came back and decided to stop selling finishers but I hope you'll all agree that the logic still applies:

Thomas Hobbes invented social contract theory, and believed that he would drown internally if he didn't sweat out a certain amount of water a day. Isaac Newton established several fundamental laws of motion, and was driven partially mad by mercury poisoning in his later life. Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio was a hugely influential painter, particularly famous for the use of dramatic lighting in his work, and once killed a man in a pub brawl. Randy "Macho Man" Savage was a wrestler famous for his work in WWE and WCW, where he held numerous world championships, and he would go on to release a rap album.

These men have many things in common. They are all, to varying degrees, figures of incredible historical significance, particularly within their own fields, and incredibly interesting and compelling figures at that. They will be remembered for generations to come; Hobbes for his innovation of political theory, Newton for his revolutionising of science, Caravaggio for his incredible, evocative art, and Randy Savage for his wrestling. What's more, Brock Lesnar would kick the ever loving shit out of each and every one of them.

"Quit violating the terms of the social contract!" Hobbes would scream as Lesnar unleashed the state of nature on his ass.

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction!" Newton would cry as his face reacted with the floor.

"[Something about art, presumably in Italian]!" Caravaggio would yelp as the walls were painted with his own blood.

Randy Savage was a more interesting man than Brock Lesnar - he dressed in more colours than the rainbow and pissed pure charisma. Randy Savage was a better wrestler than Brock Lesnar - even if Lesnar's wrestling career didn't total about two years cumulatively, his accomplishments would still be dwarfed by Savage's. Randy Savage was a more significant and certainly more influential wrestler than Brock Lesnar - Savage is in the top ten of all time in terms of fame, popularity and influence.

The same could be said - again, to varying degrees - about Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Big Show, The Rock, and The Undertaker. Brock Lesnar destroyed all of them in short order. Being more interesting, more charismatic, more popular or more significant was neither sword nor shield for them. Lesnar kicked out of the Rock Bottom. Lesnar dragged his and Ric Flair's bodies across the ring to escape the figure four. Lesnar kicked out of Hulk Hogan's leg drop.

Make no mistake - Lesnar was a monster, but he was no monster of the week. The Lord Tensais and Rybacks of present day WWE are built up today so that they can be knocked down tomorrow. The only reason Lesnar was ever knocked down was because he was gonna blow the joint, and even then it was in a controversial match against Goldberg at WrestleMania. Lesnar wasn't being fed to anyone - he was doing the feeding. On his plate were the King of the Ring, the Royal Rumble, the main event of WrestleMania, the Undisputed WWE Championship, and every big name the wrestling world had to offer. Brock Lesnar was the legend killer while Randy Orton was still building up his tan. Savage fits in perfectly on the list of Lesnar's victims.

"Oh no - the evidence would suggest that this would have been the likely outcome, and it has indeed come to fruition. Yeeeaahhh!" Randy Savage would proclaim as Lesnar pinned him.

Obviously the list of Lesnar's victims now includes John Cena, Triple H, The Undertaker and, if we're being honest with ourselves, Roman Reigns. Oh, and Michael Cole.

 

[Bernkastel]

Brock's biggest accomplishment shall always be beating The Streak. There is no title win that will ever come close to that. He is a KOTR winner RR winner, Mania Headliner twice now and someone who has become a marquee; but The Streak is the cherry for sure.

Except that's not true at all. If it was then WWE would have had zero need to not only give Lesnar the belt, but keep it on with for 6-7 months. IMO Brock wasn't used right as champion. Instead of going over absolutely every top name he kept facing Cena over and over, and then pinned a green Seth Rollins in the blow off. A dominating title reign of that magnitude would have easily been better than beating the Streak.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Except that's not true at all. If it was then WWE would have had zero need to not only give Lesnar the belt, but keep it on with for 6-7 months. IMO Brock wasn't used right as champion. Instead of going over absolutely every top name he kept facing Cena over and over, and then pinned a green Seth Rollins in the blow off. A dominating title reign of that magnitude would have easily been better than beating the Streak.

You and I dont have the real answer to why they gave Lesnar the title; only someone from creative can tell us but I see it like this: they beat The Streak, make him squash the champ and hold the strap and build him up as the big monster heel that he is, hoping Reigns will be THE guy primed to beat him.

Circumstances happen and they are not sure of Reigns beating the monster which is the right decision. I firmly believe if they get anything less than a groundswell ala Austin's road to Mania 98 or Bryan's road to Mania 30; No one should beat Brock clean. If by next Mania someone is burning and getting red hot, put the strap on Brock again and then let him get pinned.

 

[Lowdown]

I want Savage to win here, but the only way I can see him beating Brock in a match of this caliber is if he has a ton of help. Macho can hold his own with just about anyone, but Brock has taken a lot of punishment and was able to get back up. Brock, I'm afraid, would destroy Macho and move on.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Can't imagine either one of these two being down long enough to be put in said casket. But when it comes to experience in stipulation matches, Lesnar does have him beat. Having lost to Jerry Lawler in a Loser Leaves Town Match in 1985 and Ultimate Warrior in a Retirement Match. If anyone can name a match Savage won on his own that had a stipulation then please argue it here because I can't find one.

Brock Lesnar is a goddamn machine in this scenario. Has beaten Undertaker inside The Cell, with Biker Chains, etc. He scored the win over Kurt Angle in an Ironman Match. Used a damn forklift to dispose of Big Show in a Stretcher Match. He even won a Steel Cage Match against Triple H. I think Brock Lesnar can go over Randy Savage in a Casket Match. It will take a whole lot more than just stepping out of the way and closing the lid on him, though.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Brock wins this one.

Savage is the bigger draw, he's better on the mic, has a legacy not matched by many, and blah blah blah. All of that is true, however, Brock smash! Brock Lesnar, in his initial run, beat everyone who was important in the WWE. Brock Lesnar, during his second run, beat everybody that was important in the WWE; not to mention he beat the streak.

People its fairly simple. This match type is tailor made for people like Lesnar to destroy their opponents. So if you go by how Lesnar has been booked throughout his entire career, he would go over in this match.

For those of you that don't like the kayfabe argument; well that's why we have gimmick matches and different venues and such.

Vote Lesnar.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

While I'm a bigger fan of Savage than Lesnar personally, I just can't vote for him over Lesnar in a setting like this. A casket match is pretty much a street fight that you can win only by shoving your opponent in a casket and Savage vs. Lesnar in a no DQ match just does not sound like it's Savage's ballgame.

We've seen Lesnar decimate many of the biggest stars in WWE to come along in my lifetime including Hulk Hogan, John Cena, The Rock, Edge, Triple H, The Undertaker, Big Show, The Hardy Boys, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, etc. and is just a far more dominant guy than Savage ever was.

 

[Blade]

Lesnar is the 2014 version of 1998's Goldberg. There have been plenty of wrestlers like Lesnar in the past, and there will be plenty in the future. Savage was one of a kind. There will never be another like him again.

Okay, you can hold the fuck up right there, Ech.

Now, normally we agree on stuff like this. But do you honestly believe that Lesnar is just another strong, silent, big guy who dominates opponents?

You're surely smart enough to know that Lesnar is so much more than that. He takes that character archetype and turns it up to 11. He is so much more entertaining, so much more talented, so much more legitimate than Goldberg ever was.

 

[Bernkastel]

Okay, you can hold the fuck up right there, Ech.

Now, normally we agree on stuff like this. But do you honestly believe that Lesnar is just another strong, silent, big guy who dominates opponents?

You're surely smart enough to know that Lesnar is so much more than that. He takes that character archetype and turns it up to 11. He is so much more entertaining, so much more talented, so much more legitimate than Goldberg ever was.

Uh, yes. And if this was were Goldberg vs Lesnar I'd be voting Goldberg. And so would anyone else peddling the kayfabe argument.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Goldberg squashed jobbers. Lesnar, who I would argue is a different wrestler in 2015 to the one he was in 2003 or even 2013, squashes main eventers. I don't think Goldberg ever did anything as breathtaking as Lesnar's embarrassment of John Cena, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Bernkastel]

Goldberg squashed jobbers. Lesnar, who I would argue is a different wrestler in 2015 to the one he was in 2003 or even 2013, squashes main eventers. I don't think Goldberg ever did anything as breathtaking as Lesnar's embarrassment of John Cena, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

So Hogan, Rock, HHH, Sting, and even Lesnar himself were jobbers? Goldberg never blew out a champion for a world title, but does it matter? Calling Lesnar more popular than Goldberg is ludicrous. Lesnar is over 6 times a year. Goldberg was over 24/7. Calling Lesnar more compelling than Goldberg is also ludicrous. I don't hear fans chanting "Leeesnaaar Leeesnaaar Leeesaaaar" every damn he comes out. Fans not only chanted "Goldberg" every single moment he was on television but they also chanted it towards other big guys that just so happened to be dominant. Batista got them. Ryback got them. Even Lesnar got them.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Alright, but you realise I claimed literally none of those things, right?

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Can't imagine either one of these two being down long enough to be put in said casket. But when it comes to experience in stipulation matches, Lesnar does have him beat. Having lost to Jerry Lawler in a Loser Leaves Town Match in 1985 and Ultimate Warrior in a Retirement Match. If anyone can name a match Savage won on his own that had a stipulation then please argue it here because I can't find one.

In general I agree with you, as I will get into, but there is one stipulation match that Randy Savage did win, and that was at Wrestlemania X against Crush in one of WWE's first Fall Count Anywhere Matches. That was a pretty unique match at that time, and he won clean. He also defeated Ted Dibiase in some cage matches while champion in 1988. And he did win a King of the Ring Tournament and of course the Championship tournament at Wrestlemania IV So in reality he was probably about 50/50 in stipulations matches during his time in WWE. But in addition to the Retirement Match loss to the Ultimate Warrior, he wasn't ever able to win the Royal Rumble, something Brock did during his first run.

With that being said, I don't like the chances of Randy Savage in this type of match against Brock Lesnar. The way to win a Casket Match is to put your opponent into an unconscious state long enough to put him in a casket and shut the door. I just can't imagine or see Brock Lesnar being in that kind of state to get put in a casket. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen him down long enough for that to happen to him. The one exception might've been his botched shooting star press at WM 19, and even then he got back up and still beat Kurt Angle. But even from chair-shots, Hell in a Cell Matches, Falls Count Anywhere matches, he's went down long enough for a 3 second pinfall, but it takes far more than 3 seconds to lock someone in a casket.

Randy Savage on the other has been dominated enough in matches to where he's been down that long to be put in a casket. The Retirement Match at WM 7, he was out for about 3-4 minutes before finally getting up. If Lesnar can put Savage in that kind of condition like Warrior did, he wins, simple as that. And Lesnar could easily do that.


Taking kayfabe out of the situation and talking about who's the greater all-around pro wrestler, it's Savage easily. As great as Lesnar is, he does not compare to Savage all around. Lesnar is a great worker, Savage is one of the best ever. Lesnar is not so good on the mic. Savage is one of the best ever. Both were big, huge draws. Kind of equal there. But Savage was far more consistent and had a longer career. Much longer. Accomplishments are comparable. As Lesnar was around in an era where the title switched hands far more, and yet he doesn't have that many more championship reigns over Savage. But he was able to win the Royal Rumble, something Savage wasn't ever able to do, and he ended the Streak, though Savage never got a match with Taker at WM. But on accomplishments, they're pretty close. But still, Savage is the overall greater wrestler, and his legacy at this point is stronger I feel.

But with the gimmick match portions of the tournament, overall greatness isn't the way to go really, it's more about kayfabe and who would win. From that perspective, I can definitely see Savage getting Lesnar down for 3 seconds to win a match by pinfall. Plenty of people have done that from Triple H, to John Cena, to Undertaker, to Goldberg, to Kurt Angle, to even Eddie Guerrero. Savage could drop the flying elbow and put Lesnar down for the 1-2-3. But this isn't a regular match. This is a casket match, I just can't see Savage getting Lesnar in such bad shape that he's knocked out long enough to be put in a casket and have the door shut. Lesnar, on the other hand, I have no doubt could.

I really like Brock Lesnar right now, I think he's great for pro wrestling. But Savage is one of my all-time favorites. But to be completely honest, I just can't see Savage winning this match. In the end, I have to vote Brock Lesnar. Though I'm not gonna try to argue that everyone else should. I'm fine with either result. But I have to vote Lesnar here.

 

[Blade]

So Hogan, Rock, HHH, Sting, and even Lesnar himself were jobbers? Goldberg never blew out a champion for a world title, but does it matter? Calling Lesnar more popular than Goldberg is ludicrous. Lesnar is over 6 times a year. Goldberg was over 24/7. Calling Lesnar more compelling than Goldberg is also ludicrous. I don't hear fans chanting "Leeesnaaar Leeesnaaar Leeesaaaar" every damn he comes out. Fans not only chanted "Goldberg" every single moment he was on television but they also chanted it towards other big guys that just so happened to be dominant. Batista got them. Ryback got them. Even Lesnar got them.

Well yeah, I mean, nobody was going to get sick of Goldberg when they only saw him 3 minutes per week. But when he started featuring more prominently, and started losing, people stopped caring. Without the streak he was nothing.

Lesnar has never been a failure once in his entire career. Even when he lost to Triple H and Cena, he was still considered a monster. But when Goldberg started losing, it was like he'd be castrated.

What was Goldberg's greatest achievement? Taking 8 minutes to beat Hogan? Well, Brock Lesnar did the same only 4 months into his career. Destroying the Rock? Yup, Lesnar did that only 4 months into his career as well. Making the Big Show look like his bitch? Yeah, both guys have done that multiple times.

But Goldberg never did anything as impressive as what Lesnar did to Cena at Summerslam. Goldberg didn't squash 1988 Hulk Hogan, he squashed 1998 Hulk Hogan. Lesnar squashed 2014 John Cena, today's equivalent of 1988 Hulk Hogan. That is far more impressive.

Furthermore, Goldberg has never done anything as important as ending the Undertaker's streak. He went undefeated for a couple years when most of his opponents were nobodies. Good for him. But Lesnar ended an angle that was 22 years in the making, and made it look easy.

As for the Goldberg chants, yeah, he was incredibly over for a few years. He was definitely a pioneer. But Lesnar has long since surpassed him. Goldberg may have got those chants in every areana (with the help of piped-in chants, mind you). But Brock Lesnar just got cheered by most of a 76,000 strong crowd at Wrestlemania. Again, that's far more impressive.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

In general I agree with you, as I will get into, but there is one stipulation match that Randy Savage did win, and that was at Wrestlemania X against Crush in one of WWE's first Fall Count Anywhere Matches. That was a pretty unique match at that time, and he won clean. He also defeated Ted Dibiase in some cage matches while champion in 1988. And he did win a King of the Ring Tournament and of course the Championship tournament at Wrestlemania IV So in reality he was probably about 50/50 in stipulations matches during his time in WWE. But in addition to the Retirement Match loss to the Ultimate Warrior, he wasn't ever able to win the Royal Rumble, something Brock did during his first run.

With that being said, I don't like the chances of Randy Savage in this type of match against Brock Lesnar. The way to win a Casket Match is to put your opponent into an unconscious state long enough to put him in a casket and shut the door. I just can't imagine or see Brock Lesnar being in that kind of state to get put in a casket. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen him down long enough for that to happen to him. The one exception might've been his botched shooting star press at WM 19, and even then he got back up and still beat Kurt Angle. But even from chair-shots, Hell in a Cell Matches, Falls Count Anywhere matches, he's went down long enough for a 3 second pinfall, but it takes far more than 3 seconds to lock someone in a casket.

Randy Savage on the other has been dominated enough in matches to where he's been down that long to be put in a casket. The Retirement Match at WM 7, he was out for about 3-4 minutes before finally getting up. If Lesnar can put Savage in that kind of condition like Warrior did, he wins, simple as that. And Lesnar could easily do that.


Taking kayfabe out of the situation and talking about who's the greater all-around pro wrestler, it's Savage easily. As great as Lesnar is, he does not compare to Savage all around. Lesnar is a great worker, Savage is one of the best ever. Lesnar is not so good on the mic. Savage is one of the best ever. Both were big, huge draws. Kind of equal there. But Savage was far more consistent and had a longer career. Much longer. Accomplishments are comparable. As Lesnar was around in an era where the title switched hands far more, and yet he doesn't have that many more championship reigns over Savage. But he was able to win the Royal Rumble, something Savage wasn't ever able to do, and he ended the Streak, though Savage never got a match with Taker at WM. But on accomplishments, they're pretty close. But still, Savage is the overall greater wrestler, and his legacy at this point is stronger I feel.

But with the gimmick match portions of the tournament, overall greatness isn't the way to go really, it's more about kayfabe and who would win. From that perspective, I can definitely see Savage getting Lesnar down for 3 seconds to win a match by pinfall. Plenty of people have done that from Triple H, to John Cena, to Undertaker, to Goldberg, to Kurt Angle, to even Eddie Guerrero. Savage could drop the flying elbow and put Lesnar down for the 1-2-3. But this isn't a regular match. This is a casket match, I just can't see Savage getting Lesnar in such bad shape that he's knocked out long enough to be put in a casket and have the door shut. Lesnar, on the other hand, I have no doubt could.

I really like Brock Lesnar right now, I think he's great for pro wrestling. But Savage is one of my all-time favorites. But to be completely honest, I just can't see Savage winning this match. In the end, I have to vote Brock Lesnar. Though I'm not gonna try to argue that everyone else should. I'm fine with either result. But I have to vote Lesnar here.

He went for a pin during the Royal Rumble. In the final two. I forgot about that until you just brought it up. That's reason enough to never vote for Macho Madness ever again in anything ever. I'm with you in either result being fine. I voted for Bork because his name is Bork, but Savage is better in just about every way. Except for being Brock Lesnar. That is his biggest problem, he's going up against a far greater physical specimen.

 

[Bernkastel]

Well yeah, I mean, nobody was going to get sick of Goldberg when they only saw him 3 minutes per week. But when he started featuring more prominently, and started losing, people stopped caring. Without the streak he was nothing.

Which is why Brock is a part timer. if he did his shtick every week it would get stale. Just like it did in 2003. Goldberg did his shtick in two separate companies as a full timer and it worked both times.

Lesnar has never been a failure once in his entire career. Even when he lost to Triple H and Cena, he was still considered a monster. But when Goldberg started losing, it was like he'd be castrated.

Except in 2003/2004 when nobody gave a shit about Lesnar as a full timer.

What was Goldberg's greatest achievement? Taking 8 minutes to beat Hogan? Well, Brock Lesnar did the same only 4 months into his career. Destroying the Rock? Yup, Lesnar did that only 4 months into his career as well. Making the Big Show look like his bitch? Yeah, both guys have done that multiple times.

The greatest undefeated Streak of the modern era?

But Goldberg never did anything as impressive as what Lesnar did to Cena at Summerslam. Goldberg didn't squash 1988 Hulk Hogan, he squashed 1998 Hulk Hogan. Lesnar squashed 2014 John Cena, today's equivalent of 1988 Hulk Hogan. That is far more impressive.

Calling current John Cena the equivalent of 1980's Hogan is a bit ludicrous don't you think? Stratch that it is ludicrous.

Furthermore, Goldberg has never done anything as important as ending the Undertaker's streak. He went undefeated for a couple years when most of his opponents were nobodies. Good for him. But Lesnar ended an angle that was 22 years in the making, and made it look easy.

And Undertaker didn't spend many years beating nobodies at Wrestlemania? And it was "22 years in the making" LOL. If that were true then why had WWE been seriously considering ending the streak numerous times before? Kane, Randy Orton, and Mark Henry were all major contenders to end the thing. Don't act like it was a feat custom made for Brock Lesnar. Like WWE knew he'd fail in MMA and that he come waltzing back to break it years later.

As for the Goldberg chants, yeah, he was incredibly over for a few years. He was definitely a pioneer. But Lesnar has long since surpassed him. Goldberg may have got those chants in every areana (with the help of piped-in chants, mind you). But Brock Lesnar just got cheered by most of a 76,000 strong crowd at Wrestlemania. Again, that's far more impressive.

It's easy to get cheered when you make 6 appearances a year. When Lesnar gets cheered like that repeatedly as a full time star for years, and fans continue to chant his name to several future stars that they see as being knockoffs, THEN he will have surpassed Goldberg.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I think it's the end of the road for Savage here. In a normal match I think he'd have a chance of beating Brock, but I don't see any way Macho is gonna be able to get Lesnar into the casket. He'd be just like all the rest, getting thrown around the ring like a child, with the Beast hitting multiple F5's and rolling Savage into the casket.

Savage has the greater legacy, but I don't think he has the offense to keep Brock Lesnar down long enough to get him into the casket, you rarely see Lesnar stay down for any length of time. I'm definitely going to vote for The Conquerer